Target rifle 30-06/270/243?


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C-grunt
September 10, 2009, 08:48 PM
Im looking to buy a Savage rifle in one of these chamberings and turning it into a light target rifle. I know any of these rounds will be good for the ranges Im most likely to shoot at (a few hundred yards) but which would be the best in your opinion?

Which is easier to get proper bullets for distance shooting. Which has the best BC? Least drop at distance? ETC....

Thanks,

Chase.

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viking499
September 10, 2009, 08:52 PM
243 would be easier on the shoulder if shooting alot. Lots of good 6mm bullets out there.

Uncle Mike
September 10, 2009, 08:55 PM
Oh that's easy... the .30-06!

GRIZ22
September 10, 2009, 08:59 PM
I'd go 30-06. Vast choice of components available. The 270 may shoot a bit flatter but I've never seen one prepped as a "target rifle".

SlamFire1
September 10, 2009, 09:01 PM
I know one guy who uses a 243 as a target rifle. He is a shooter from Georgia and he changes his barrel out at least once per season. I think the accuracy life of a .243 barrel is under 1000 rounds.

If you are serious about shooting this as a target rifle there are a lot more cartridges that are better choices.

Both the 30-06 and 270 are going to kick hard.

While the 308 is obsolescent, your barrel life will be close to 4000 rounds.

Any of the 6.5 mm rounds have better ballistics than a 270 or 30 caliber bullet. Expect barrel life to be about 1500 rounds.

Bullet drop is not a "big" issue with target shooting. (Except for Black powder. At a long range black match, never ever park behind the target butts. One hole in your truck will make you a believer) You simply shoot from fixed distances, 200, 300, 500, 600 yards and dial in the same elevation you used before.

cyclopsshooter
September 10, 2009, 09:01 PM
270 groups much tighter- i use a savage 110 with a 3-9... Sub inch group all shots touching from a bench at 100 yards

52grain
September 10, 2009, 09:03 PM
For target shooting, .308 is probably going to be more common. Another option is .223 but you will want to pay close attention to barrel twist rates if you want to shoot past about 200 yards.

USSR
September 10, 2009, 09:04 PM
Here's the scoop. There are alot of high BC 6mm bullets out there; only problem is, they are generally too heavy for a factory .243 rifle's twist to stabilize. There a very few quality, high BC .277" bullets available, so the .270 would be the worst choice of the three. There are many high BC .308" match bullets out there, and the .30-06's 1-10" twist will easily stabilize these 190gr to 210gr bullets. You take it from here.

Don

C-grunt
September 10, 2009, 09:16 PM
Thanks USSR. Thats what I wanted to know. I originally wanted a .223 or .308 but they seem to be kinda hard to find around here for a decent price. I had a Savage 10FP in .308 before and worked up a couple nice loads. I want something that shoots close to that performance without the weight.

oneounceload
September 10, 2009, 09:32 PM
Any of the top target shooters I have seen shoot 6mm bullets - granted, it's in a 6mm BR version of some sort, but they put all their shots in one ragged hole

browningguy
September 10, 2009, 09:59 PM
Mine is a Savage 12 FV in .243. But you need to handload to really get good match grade ammo, I have loads with the 85 gr. Sierra, 68 gr. Berger and 105, as far as I know no one loads factory match ammo for it. If you handload you can build loads with better ballistics than the '06 and a lot less recoil, and recoil does matter. The standard Savage twist for .243 will stabilize just about everything up to 108 gr. although if you try to use VLD bullets they generally become a single shot proposition as they have to be loaded too long to fit in the magazine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jcm9371/Rifles/savage12fv3.jpg

As onounceload mentioned, all the long range shooters are winning with 6mm and 6.5 bullets.

DIM
September 10, 2009, 10:04 PM
.308 would be a wise choice, if you need one find licensed dealer they can order for you anything you like from savage or what else is out there… I would recommend to go with SUB MOA guaranteed riffles like Weatherby Vanguard or TC ICON or TC Venture line, I just got TC ICON PH in ,308 this thing shoots 0.26 MOA, at 300 yards it groups 0.985”.

biblefreak
September 10, 2009, 11:02 PM
Here's the scoop. There are alot of high BC 6mm bullets out there; only problem is, they are generally too heavy for a factory .243 rifle's twist to stabilize. There a very few quality, high BC .277" bullets available, so the .270 would be the worst choice of the three. There are many high BC .308" match bullets out there, and the .30-06's 1-10" twist will easily stabilize these 190gr to 210gr bullets. You take it from here.

Don
Since he is looking at the Savage which has a 1 in 9.25" twist he should be good to go with all but the heaviest Bergers. I have seen a couple of comments on the Midway site on the 105gr A-max where folks specify the Savage as their rifle and are getting good results. My second time out with my used (new to me) Savage .243 I got a real nice sub 3/4" group using 100gr cheapo Federal at 13.99 box. I am excited to see what this rifle will do with handloads!

C-grunt
September 10, 2009, 11:51 PM
Since he is looking at the Savage which has a 1 in 9.25" twist he should be good to go with all but the heaviest Bergers. I have seen a couple of comments on the Midway site on the 105gr A-max where folks specify the Savage as their rifle and are getting good results. My second time out with my used (new to me) Savage .243 I got a real nice sub 3/4" group using 100gr cheapo Federal at 13.99 box. I am excited to see what this rifle will do with handloads!
I read that as well today. The .243 is looking pretty good. Lower recoil and great selection of good long range bullets.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 11, 2009, 12:04 AM
Without a doubt, the .243 Win out to 300 or 400 yards, really even out to 600 or so if you want to push it. Better trajectory (less wind drift), AND less recoil and ammo expense. What's not to like? A medium-BC, "mid-weight" .243 bullet (80-85 grains) will get to the target so much faster than a higher BC 175-210 .30 cal that the velocity easily trumps the better BC of the .30 cals, for anything under 400 yards. And you don't need any special twist for that - 1 in 10 or 1 in 12 is fine.

This question is what's known in technical parlance as a no-brainer. :)

chevyforlife21
September 11, 2009, 12:21 AM
well my savage 243 is really accurate it hits the same bullet hole alot at 100 yards. but 243 barrels wear out fast due to the excessive pressure i heard. it does have light recoil though that's a big plus for target shooting. like most will tell you just go with the 30-06 though.

jpwilly
September 11, 2009, 12:22 AM
I too would go with .243 provided your not going to try to take big game.

lefteyedom
September 11, 2009, 12:42 AM
Get the 243, then save some cash up and rebarrel it in 6.5x284. Then you would have the basic building bocks for 1000 yard rifle.

rangerruck
September 11, 2009, 12:57 AM
243; better selection of high grade 6mm bullets, plus there is a factory bullet out there, made byHS munitions , that uses a vld bullet, and these are 25 bucks a box, not bad really, but handloading would be the way to go. And considering if the twist is 1/9.5, that is perfect.

http://www.thehuntingshack.com/index.html

matter of fact, I highly recommend these peeps for all your shooting needs.

Runningman
September 11, 2009, 01:47 AM
Since you are looking at Savage rifles you might want to check out their Heavy barrel rifles models with 1 in 8 twist. In the 6mm Norma BR or 6.5 x 284 NORMA. Even the 6mm Norma BR with a 1 in 8 twist barrel using long bullets is capable of extremely good accuracy at 600 yards. The 6.5 x 284 NORMA would have less drop though.

C-grunt
September 11, 2009, 02:27 AM
Well two things. Im specifically wanting to stay away from the heavy barrels and am probably buying used.

Also I live a long way from the range so Im not going to be shooting it enough to wear out the barrel to soon.

hometheaterman
September 11, 2009, 02:55 AM
I would say the .243 also just because it will be easier on the shoulder. If you want to do a lot of hunting with it I'm a 30-06 fan.

C-grunt
September 11, 2009, 02:57 AM
This would be pretty much a strictly target rifle. Im not much of a hunter. Never shot anything but birds and rabbits.

Maverick223
September 11, 2009, 03:38 AM
As USSR said above, there is no good target bullets (match grade with a BC over 0.500) available for the .270 that I am aware of. The .30-06 is a great choice, but will kick a little harder, it is not a common target cartridge but who said that is a bad thing? The .243 is likely to be the most inherently accurate cartridge, but barrel life will be shorter than a slower round. If you aren't really attached to common cartridges I would choose the .260Rem., it offers better BC bullets (and more choice in general) than the .243, greater accuracy, more barrel life, more power/energy (if you should choose to hunt with the rifle), longer effective range than any of the aforementioned cartridges, and just slightly more recoil than the .243...it is a clear winner if you choose to reload (though there is factory support, cartridges are hard to find and there is little choice of loadings). :)

blackops
September 11, 2009, 03:53 AM
IMO all these rounds can be very accurate. Your rifle and optics are going to dictate how accurate you can really be. If you to talk BC the 270 and 243 are going to give you better BC's. All three calibers offer a wide variety of bullets. The 270 and 30-06 are going to kick a little harder, but for me personally I can shoot my 270 all day long. I use Sierra 135gr MatchKings for paper and let me tell you they are very accurate. Not a lot of people use the 270 as a true target round, but I would love someone to make a true target rifle out of it. I bet it would be more than expected.

R.W.Dale
September 11, 2009, 05:43 AM
I agree that of the three 270 is the least desirable.....BUT I'd like to play a little devils advocate here for the 270 and bring up some points in it's favor


1. Bullet selection is starting to come around Berger now has a line of VLD's in .277" with the 150grainer pulling in a nice .531 B.C.

2. As USSR will attest to the current crop of slow burning high energy propellants can really bring a cartridge such as this to life in a nice long 26" barrel

3. You will NOT find anyone else doing serious long range accuracy shooting with a 270win, I don't know bout you but I like to be a bit different

4. 270 winchester would be a "freakin laserbeam" shooting the newly introduced lightweight 6.8spc match bullets at hyper velocity, although bbl life might suffer

5. Even if limited to "hunting" bullets, some of the more modern bullet designs can still produce some staggeringly good groups

C-grunt
September 11, 2009, 06:41 PM
I agree that of the three 270 is the least desirable.....BUT I'd like to play a little devils advocate here for the 270 and bring up some points in it's favor


1. Bullet selection is starting to come around Berger now has a line of VLD's in .277" with the 150grainer pulling in a nice .531 B.C.

2. As USSR will attest to the current crop of slow burning high energy propellants can really bring a cartridge such as this to life in a nice long 26" barrel

3. You will NOT find anyone else doing serious long range accuracy shooting with a 270win, I don't know bout you but I like to be a bit different

4. 270 winchester would be a "freakin laserbeam" shooting the newly introduced lightweight 6.8spc match bullets at hyper velocity, although bbl life might suffer

5. Even if limited to "hunting" bullets, some of the more modern bullet designs can still produce some staggeringly good groups
True.. My old 10FP's favorite load was 168 grn Winchester Ballistic Silvertips. Freakin expensive but shot a genuine sub .5 inch group. My best with my handloads was .6 to .7 inch groups.

GunTech
September 11, 2009, 07:37 PM
30-06 will let you shoot the 155gn Lapua scenar, one of the most outstanding high BC target bullets for 30 caliber.

Personally, I'd look at a 6.5 if you want a long range target gun: 260, 6.5x47 lapua, 6.5-284

Arkel23
September 11, 2009, 08:25 PM
Go with the 30-06, a .243 is nothing but a varmint killer.

Random Discharge
September 12, 2009, 10:50 AM
Seems hard to go wrong with 308 for what you want.

But what about a 6.5x55? Low recoil, great BC, good barrel life = nice light target rifle? 260 Remington or 7-08 move up the ladder on velocity, and so probably barrel wear too.

Afy
September 12, 2009, 11:06 AM
If it is going to be a pure target shooter, IMHO you are looking at the wrong calibers.

6 MM NBR, 6 mmBRX, 6 Dasher, 6x47 Lapua, 6.5x47 Lapua, .260 rem are hard to beat. If most of your shooting is going to be sub 200 meters, difficult to go wrong with 6 PPC.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 12, 2009, 11:32 AM
^
|
| Now THIS man speaks wisely. :) Now which of the original choices is most *like* those mentioned here; hmmmmm. :)

Go with the 30-06, a .243 is nothing but a varmint killer.

Is paper harder to kill than a varmint? Did you read the original question? :scrutiny:

Recommending a .30-06 for target shooting is pure ridiculousness - there's no reason on earth to beat yourself up like that.

krs
September 12, 2009, 01:56 PM
You're in Phoenix?

You need to go to Bruno's Shooter Supply, 21628 North Central Avenue Suite #4
Phoenix Arizona 85024
Phone: 623.587.7641
Fax: 623.587.7645

http://www.brunoshooters.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=BSS


Ask if Lester's still kicking, and tell Gary Ocock what you want to do. They'll be happy to sell you a Savage if you insist. :)


You can't be all that far from the Ben Avery ranges north of the city, right? Talk about a great place for paper-punching!

Phoenix is one of the best places in the country for a shooter to live.

Arkel23
September 12, 2009, 05:34 PM
Is paper harder to kill than a varmint? Did you read the original question?

Recommending a .30-06 for target shooting is pure ridiculousness - there's no reason on earth to beat yourself up like that. Did you read the question? He asked which caliber and he gave a list, apparently he can take the 30-06 pretty well, I myself find it not bad recoil AT ALL. You can talk to the original question asker about listing the calibers he did. I just chose one.

foudufoot
September 12, 2009, 06:47 PM
I like the 243 Win. I have a 1970 model Zoli (Husqvarna) hunting rifle in that caliber with an 8x16 Leupold scope. It really likes HSM 100 grain factory ammo: at 100 yards, I shot the following 5 round string the first time out with it at the bench. Three shots grouped in the bullseye and two about 0.5" below. The difference was my pulse.

There has been some consideration given to using the .243 win as a sniper round due to its exceptional ballistics (c.f. http://www.snipercentral.com/243.htm & http://www.gunsworld.com/reload/cart_snip_us.html). BAsed on my experience with it, the 6.5 x 55 swedish, 7.5 x 55 Swiss, and the 30-06, I think that the .243 can be an excellent long distance target rifle round with the right weapon. I agree that the higher recoil of the 30.06 and .270 win make them less desirable for that use.

That said, the 6.5 Swedish and 7.5 Swiss are also worthy of serious consideration, even if not on your list. The 1" red/white bullseye was shot out with a Swedish m41B sniper rifle with 4x scope and PMC match 6.5 swedish ammo, and the last was shot from a target K31 with diopter sights and GP11 surplus ammo. All at 100yards.

PS: Arkel, read the post title: target rifle

rangerruck
September 13, 2009, 09:01 AM
I actually agree a bit here with above dude; I think the 6.8 round is highly underrated and would be a damn fine target round- if someone made some really great bullets for it. Something in say 160 to 180 grains, would give this bullet a
awesome b.c., and you could handload it proly to 3000 fps, which would really make it a 1000 yd heartbreaker. But I don't think mfgrs will do it, because they think that anyone who shoots 270, is strictly a deer hunter or pronghorn or antelope or such, and does not care about a 270 as a distance paper puncher.

actually the peeps I mentioned above, make this in a vld round, but that doesn't mean it will shoot lights out in your rifle, just that it has the potential to.

http://www.thehuntingshack.com/index.html

even though 270 is not listed here, I know they have it. 243 is not listed, but I have some!!!

R.W.Dale
September 13, 2009, 01:37 PM
You'd never see even 2000fps with a 180 grn 6.8 round even with a magic twist rate and a 26" barrel. Heck 270 Winchester won't even do 3k with bullets over 150 and it has both a higher pressure rating and almost twice the case capacity VS 6.8spc

Bart B.
September 15, 2009, 08:16 AM
For the most types of high power rifle matches you can use only one cartridge for, you'll want the .308 Winchester. You can use any cartridge you want in some matches, but only the .308 Win. in long range Palma matches. This round replaced the .30-06 back in the 1960's because it was and still is near twice as accurate. It gets twice the barrel life as a .243 Win. as proved when the .243 was allowed and a third more barrel life than the .270 Win.

If one compares the real wind bucking difference between the .308 Win. and .30-06 with any bullet they shoot, they'll learn that the 150 fps faster ones from the .30-06 only deflect about 5% less than the same bullet from a .308 Win. Which means that the 40% smaller groups from a .308 Win. gives one a bigger advantage than a 5% less wind drift from the .30-06 at any range.

Except for not being allowed in Palma matches, the .260 Rem and 6XC are the current favorites in most matches shot at 200 through 600 yards. The 6.5x.284 is a favorite for 1000 yard matches. And full length sizing dies with bushings without expander balls are available for these cartridges and they'll produce the best accuracy with them.

JimmAr
September 15, 2009, 09:24 AM
Edit : If it is going to be a pure target shooter, IMHO you are looking at the wrong calibers.

6 MM NBR, 6 mmBRX, 6 Dasher, 6x47 Lapua, 6.5x47 Lapua, .260 rem are hard to beat. If most of your shooting is going to be sub 200 meters, difficult to go wrong with 6 PPC.

This mans speaks the truth and honestly the newer cartridges produced would get you alot better results at a longer range at less cost which are such as the 300wsm and the 270wsm..

All ive seen these cartridge designs produce is sub moa accuracy.. while 270 win is a fine round is not as efficient in burning powder as the wsm. If you look at what the boys use in the 1000 yard comps its always the short fat cartridges that have that real genuine inherent accuracy and end up walking away with trophies.

Just a thought.

Mr_Pale_Horse
September 15, 2009, 09:49 AM
I think the OP picked three readily available cartridges, with little idea of the relative recoil or applicability. Without a doubt, the 243 will be a better choice for paper punching.

jbech123
September 15, 2009, 05:45 PM
270 groups much tighter- i use a savage 110 with a 3-9... Sub inch group all shots touching from a bench at 100 yards
Congrats on dumbest post of the day. So the 270 groups tighter huh? Is that why sooo many serious target shooters use it?

This round replaced the .30-06 back in the 1960's because it was and still is near twice as accurate.
huh? What are you basing this on?

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