Any Advice on Carrying Openly for the First Time?


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Ltp0wer
September 11, 2009, 09:35 PM
Yes, another open carry thread. I used search and read threads from the first 4 pages of search results for "open carry". I tried narrowing it down to "Open Carry Advice" and "Open Carry Tips" and even "First time Open Carry", and I didn't find a thread.

Anyway, I turn 18 in on the 17th (Roughly 6 days).

I was wondering if any of you guys have any tips for me. I live in a rather large suburban area, rather than a secluded part of the state where open carry is more common. I am going to carry a (9mm) Smith and Wesson Model 39-2 on a hip holster with one spare magazine. I plan to wear some dark blue jeans and a t-shirt.

My questions are:
Is this a good idea? The majority of my friends have never seen someone open carry. If they have, it's only been 1 or 2 times.

How was your first open carry experience? I want to know if there is anything I should expect or avoid. How old were you?

There is no one in my family I can get advice from because no one besides me shows any interest in firearms. My mom is proud that I want to open carry, while my dad and my step mom told me, "You aren't open carrying with us outside the house. You need to be respectful of other peoples' fears".

Also, I envy all you guys that are 21 and have concealed carry permits. Attached is a picture I took of my gun.
Thanks for reading.

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M60
September 11, 2009, 10:09 PM
I don't know if it will help or not, but it couldn't hurt to have a copy of the Revised statutes and such that show that it's legal to open carry where you are.

-Mark.

jakemccoy
September 11, 2009, 10:14 PM
Know the law and have a plan for what you'll say to the cops.

Go to http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/. Talk with others in your state about open carrying. After talking with others about open carrying in my area, I decided that it's not for me at this point in my life.

Ltp0wer
September 11, 2009, 10:24 PM
M60 and jakemccoy, I have a book that I have been reading called "Arizona Gun Owners Guide". It has the statutes in plain and in layman's terms.

I also have a book called "You and the Police", which explains what you should say to the cops, and what rights everyone has as far as searches and the like.

freakshow10mm
September 11, 2009, 10:25 PM
You need to be respectful of other peoples' fears
Respectfully tell them to get a life. This is America. People need to be respectful of your Constitutional rights. If they get scared that's their problem and they need to see a shrink about it.

Situational awareness is the biggest issue. Keep your gun side away from people. Don't let people get inside your personal bubble. Watch hands, then look at their face. Be yourself, be polite, go on with life.

possum
September 11, 2009, 10:42 PM
i wish i could help you, but open carry is something that i don't do so therefore i have no tips for you that are open carry specific, however best of luck to you. just be responsible and do the legal gun owners/ ccw proud, and set the example for people to see. show them what right looks like. ie don't do things that would give teh antis fuel for the fire.

kmcintosh78
September 11, 2009, 10:45 PM
Just be ready for a Crap storm if you are downtown PHX, Scottsdale maybe. Most of the other cities were not as up tight about open carrying.
Being ex LEO in Gilbert, I can give you a couple suggestions.
1. If you are approached by law enforcement, keep your hands at about belly height and folded.
2. I would suggest starting to keep your wallet (With ID) in your front pocket, opposite the side where you will wear your firearm.
3. ID yourself, and advise of the weapon. If asked for ID, before moving your hands, advise the office of everything you will do, and move slow.
4. I believe the law in AZ, if I remember correctly, is you can carry open, but you can't have a round chambered, but can have a mag inserted.
5. When you go to travel in your vehicle, the law changes a bit. If you don't have a concealed permit, you need to have the handgun in plain sight, with no mag inserted, and ammo in a separate locked compartment.

Good luck. Remember, if an officer approaches you, they will be at a high level of anxiety. They don't know you, and need to asses the situation. Work with them, and be polite.

PershingRiflesC-7
September 11, 2009, 10:55 PM
Proper attire and hygiene will go a long way in reducing the immediate impact of OC. If you need details on what I mean by "proper attire and hygiene", you may either ask your grandmother or forget about OC because you aren't ready yet. The required level of maturity is key to your success. Maturity is a mental factor and is exhibited externally by attitude and dress.

Ltp0wer
September 11, 2009, 11:08 PM
Respectfully tell them to get a life. This is America. People need to be respectful of your Constitutional rights. If they get scared that's their problem and they need to see a shrink about it.

Situational awareness is the biggest issue. Keep your gun side away from people. Don't let people get inside your personal bubble. Watch hands, then look at their face. Be yourself, be polite, go on with life.
Thanks exactly what I've been trying to tell them, but they are too old and set in their ways. I am hoping that things will go smoothly and they will hopefully see that there is nothing wrong with open carrying.

Just be ready for a Crap storm if you are downtown PHX, Scottsdale maybe. Most of the other cities were not as up tight about open carrying.
Being ex LEO in Gilbert, I can give you a couple suggestions.
1. If you are approached by law enforcement, keep your hands at about belly height and folded.
2. I would suggest starting to keep your wallet (With ID) in your front pocket, opposite the side where you will wear your firearm.
3. ID yourself, and advise of the weapon. If asked for ID, before moving your hands, advise the office of everything you will do, and move slow.
4. I believe the law in AZ, if I remember correctly, is you can carry open, but you can't have a round chambered, but can have a mag inserted.
5. When you go to travel in your vehicle, the law changes a bit. If you don't have a concealed permit, you need to have the handgun in plain sight, with no mag inserted, and ammo in a separate locked compartment.

Good luck. Remember, if an officer approaches you, they will be at a high level of anxiety. They don't know you, and need to asses the situation. Work with them, and be polite.
Wow, thanks. Very informative. I have a few issues though.
I have never heard about anything about chambering rounds being illegal.
Also, number 5, I heard that I can have a holstered pistol anywhere in the vehicle except on my person, and I can have an unholstered weapon in the glove box. Unless I am misunderstanding the law
1. Carrying a deadly weapon without a permit pursuant to section 13-3112 except a pocket knife concealed on his person; or
2. Carrying a deadly weapon without a permit pursuant to section 13-3112 concealed within immediate control of any person in or on a means of transportation; or
...
F. Subsection A, paragraph 1 of this section shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a belt holster that is wholly or partially visible, or carried in a scabbard or case designed for carrying weapons that is wholly or partially visible or carried in luggage. Subsection A, paragraph 2 of this section shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a case, holster, scabbard, pack or luggage that is carried within a means of transportation or within a storage compartment, map pocket, trunk or glove compartment of a means of transportation.

freakshow10mm
September 11, 2009, 11:10 PM
And yes you will be very nervous the first few times. Everyone is, even carrying concealed. You will get comfortable the more you do it. Just takes time.

TheProf
September 11, 2009, 11:10 PM
My advice... even though you plan on OC, get a CC permit first. This gives you an extra level of legal protection....just in case you accidentally conceal your "open carried" weapon.. (it can happen...) or get in a weird situation where the legal regulations change because you are in a vehicle, etc.

I would also carry concealed first (with a permit) and then when that "I'm carrying a gun" novelty has worn off, only then would I open carry.

Tacbandit
September 11, 2009, 11:17 PM
Stay away from "town-hall meetings" on Healthcare Reform...lol

freakshow10mm
September 11, 2009, 11:19 PM
You missed the point.

He will be 18 years old within a week. He can open carry at 18. He can't get a concealed carry permit until 21. Open carry allows him to carry a firearm for his protection at 18 years old.

As the OP resides in Arizona, it's doubtful a jacket is worn except possibly at night in the winter.

mljdeckard
September 11, 2009, 11:25 PM
I'm going to say this, even if it's not what you want to hear right now.

You are right. Your father is wrong. At least that's the opinion you are going to get from us in here. Every human being has a fundamental human right to self-defense, and there isn't some magical age where you suddenly become responsible enough to handle deadly force.; I believe in my case I was much younger than 18. There is no shortage of idiots over 21 who CAN'T handle it. I experienced this absurdity when upon my first discharge from the army, two months short of 21, I was the assistant armorer in the HHC of an armor battalion, which means I had unaccompanied access to 273 M-16s, 87 M-9s, and 50 some-odd M-60s, M-240s, M-2s, and honest-to-Roosevelt M-3 burp guns. I bought a pistol from a friend of mine, and I wasn't allowed to take posession of it because I wasn't 21 yet. I know.

HOWEVER COMMA

The consequences of going against your father's wishes are going to have a much more immediate and direct on your life than the possibility of an event where deadly force may be authorized. I know 21 seems like a LONG way off, but when it gets here, and you are a real adult human being who can do anything you want to, the pre-21 blues will fade into insignificance.

You can be right, or you can be happy. Pick ONE. You can't have both. MY advice is, bite the bullet for now, leave it home, get lots of practice when you can, read those books cover to cover, in addition to "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad F. Ayoob. Be ready when you ARE 21.

middy
September 11, 2009, 11:35 PM
Wear a button down shirt and slacks instead of jeans and a t-shirt. Shave daily and get a haircut monthly. Look as clean cut as you can and people will react much more positively.

snorky18
September 11, 2009, 11:47 PM
Be dang sure you know the laws, all of them, before you go.

Not to talk you out of it, but just because you are not breaking any laws does not guarantee that you will not be hassled or have legal problems arise from the situation.

kmcintosh78
September 11, 2009, 11:54 PM
The chambered round thing is a UT law then, not AZ.

As for the vehicle carry. That is an open debate, and varies from department to department and officer to officer. I don't think that there is any case law to support which interpretation is to be taken yet. But, it has been at least 5 years since leaving LE and AZ.
Call your local PD and take to a patrol officer, not a SGT or supervisor, they are desk jockeys.

And the hygiene thing will go along way. More times then not, if you look like a dirt bag, you are treated like a dirt bag. If you look like John Q Public, who obeys the law, you are not bothered.

Ltp0wer
September 12, 2009, 01:36 AM
TheProf, like freakshow10mm said, I am only going to be 18. Trust me, if I were 21, I would get my CCW permit in a second.

Tacbandit, yeah, I don't want to stir up any trouble.

The consequences of going against your father's wishes are going to have a much more immediate and direct on your life than the possibility of an event where deadly force may be authorized. I know 21 seems like a LONG way off, but when it gets here, and you are a real adult human being who can do anything you want to, the pre-21 blues will fade into insignificance.

You can be right, or you can be happy. Pick ONE. You can't have both. MY advice is, bite the bullet for now, leave it home, get lots of practice when you can, read those books cover to cover, in addition to "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad F. Ayoob. Be ready when you ARE 21.
You'd be right, but I live with my mom. I only see my dad 2 or 3 days a month. He has no real control over my life. I appreciate the words of wisdom, though.
Also, thanks for the book recommendation. I am getting bored of reading the same gun book over again.

Middy, will do. If slacks and button down would work better, I'm on it. Thanks.

snorky18, That's what I am afraid of. :(

kmcintosh78, yeah, thanks. I'll call the PD tomorrow. And yeah, I shave quite often anyway. I am a bit overdue for a haircut though.

Thanks you guys, you've been really helpful. This thread has been more successful than I thought it would be.

PandaBearBG
September 12, 2009, 01:51 AM
Agreed, know the laws to a T so if you are questioned they know your not just some yahoo. On appearance and attitude, keep it clean and keep it confident. Even seeing someone well dresses and clean cut, but who keeps fingering their OC and feeling too self conscious about their firearm (sorry I am kinda suspicous of people anyways, habit.) makes me nervous around them. If you are confident about your carry, ie not favoring your gun side in your stride so it's always ready, or constantly checking it, or brandishing it, that throws up alarms for me, personally. Just be comfortably about it and if you behave to self consiously of it around people they will also become more conscious about the firearm too. I'm not saying let everybody touch it, definitly keep your gun side away from people if you have the chance to without juking and weaving people. Just act like your should, it's your gun, your right to carry, be proud of it just don't flaunt or be second guess yourself on how you carry it.

Blue Brick
September 12, 2009, 01:58 AM
Don’t ever touch your gun or holster in pubic, unless absolutely necessary.

Blue Brick
September 12, 2009, 02:00 AM
By the way I live in AZ and I always open carry. I bought my first revolver when I was 18 (Fully legal in AZ from a private party).

Ltp0wer
September 12, 2009, 02:10 AM
By the way I live in AZ and I always open carry. I bought my first revolver when I was 18 (Fully legal in AZ from a private party).
Sweet. I'm going to my favorite gun store on my birthday and I am buying a mosin nagant. And yeah, I know it sounds silly, but I constantly fiddle with my gun in my house. I take it a part and practice clearing jams. My snap caps were a solid investment. I don't think I'll have any problems not touching it in public, though.

gearchecker
September 12, 2009, 02:29 AM
Ltp,
So far, I have not heard a few items that still need to be addressed --- So here goes.

TAKE A CONCEALED CARRY COURSE NOW!
I KNOW THAT YOU ARE ONLY 18 NOW, BUT YOU CAN LEGALLY TAKE THE COURSE.
You will learn the laws and ramification of carrying a firearm in any situation, open or concealed.
They will also teach you how to handle the weapon, and mostly when not to think about touching it or using it.

Also, you MUST have a holster that fits, that is secure, and that you are comfortable with at all times.
Sitting, standing, walking and even running you must be certain that your handgun is secure.
If you don't have a holster that is absolutly secure you have no right to carry in the open, period.
If you haven't found that holster yet, you need to find it now.
Each holster has a designed purpose, and it is to be used for it's intended purpose only.
There is no such thing as a "single holster for every purpose"
I own 9 different holsters and only 5 handguns.

Carrying a loaded weapon will be the most responsible act you will ever do.
Start by carrying it on you around the house all day long.
Stay at home and make a point not to go out.
You won't have an excuse to take it off if you are at home all day.
Do it for 3 or 4 days until you are completly comfortable wearing it.
The hardest thing to do is to keep from checking for it all the time.
Any time your hand goes to or near your weapon somebody will see you do it, and it may be considered hostile.
Learn not to reach for it, or to touch it "Just to be sure it's there".
It is, and it will be noticed only if you draw attention to it.
If you are comfortable with it, nearly everybody around you will be too.

The very first time I open carried I did so with a completly empty weapon.
I carried a loaded magazine with me, but the pistol was empty. I was the only person that knew it.
I was very nervous, but after about 2 hours wandering about I got used to it.

And lastly, it was said earlier that it would be a good idea to respect your fathers wishes and not carry while you are around him.
I agree, it will show your father that you are respectful and acting responsibly by listening to his wishes.
Once you turn 21, you are a fully emancipated adult and can do as you wish.
But I'm sure your father will understand and respect your position, as you did his when you were 18
Good luck in your endeavor - GQ

Ltp0wer
September 12, 2009, 02:32 AM
Ltp,
TAKE
I'm sorry, I don't follow.

Eschaton
September 12, 2009, 02:38 AM
It's not an issue at all in Arizona.

I've opened carried my pistol into a QT a few times with Glendale PD there and they didn't even give me a second glance.

Just make sure you avoid places that prohibit firearms and you'll be A-Okay.

How was your first open carry experience? I want to know if there is anything I should expect or avoid. How old were you?

There is no one in my family I can get advice from because no one besides me shows any interest in firearms. My mom is proud that I want to open carry, while my dad and my step mom told me, "You aren't open carrying with us outside the house. You need to be respectful of other peoples' fears".

My first time was actually very nervewracking. Just for the fact I was popping my OC cherry. I was 18 when I first did it and now that I turned 19 a few months ago and got my pistol for my birthday I've done it a few times since then.

THE DARK KNIGHT
September 12, 2009, 02:46 AM
Know the laws

Be respectful

Avoid confrontations

Also, looking clean cut and well groomed will help too

Ltp0wer
September 12, 2009, 02:53 AM
It's not an issue at all in Arizona.

I've opened carried my pistol into a QT a few times with Glendale PD there and they didn't even give me a second glance.

Just make sure you avoid places that prohibit firearms and you'll be A-Okay.



My first time was actually very nervewracking. Just for the fact I was popping my OC cherry. I was 18 when I first did it and now that I turned 19 a few months ago and got my pistol for my birthday I've done it a few times since then.
Were you alone when you OCd for the first time?
I am going to be with my mom.


THE DARK KNIGHT, Thanks. My family says I don't look like a punk, so I think I will be fine. Then again, that's my family. Maybe I should post a picture of what I look like.

The only thing that worries me is where I can open carry. Most stores and businesses around my area have "No Firearms" signs. The only places I am planning to go are Target and the Gunstore. I wish I could OC to my birthday dinner, but alcohol is served at the restaurant.

Eschaton
September 12, 2009, 02:58 AM
I was with my friends the first time I OC'd and one of them had his P229 on his hip. And nobody at the wal-mart gave us any second glance.

I'd double check about Target. I've never seen any signs there prohibiting it, but I would get the feeling they wouldn't like it.

And, recently gov. brewer signed the bill making it legal to carry a firearm into places that serve alcohol. I'm not sure if it's gone into affect yet though.

Ltp0wer
September 12, 2009, 03:02 AM
I was with my friends the first time I OC'd and one of them had his P229 on his hip. And nobody at the wal-mart gave us any second glance.

I'd double check about Target. I've never seen any signs there prohibiting it, but I would get the feeling they wouldn't like it.

And, recently gov. brewer signed the bill making it legal to carry a firearm into places that serve alcohol. I'm not sure if it's gone into affect yet though.
The Target near me doesn't have any "No Firearms" sign, so I assume I am safe to go in there. If not, I'll leave or put my gun in the car if there is any problem.

And about the bill, it goes into effect on the 29th or 30th of this month. The only problem is that it only applies to concealed carry. And obviously you still can't CC it if they have a "No Firearms" sign.

Eschaton
September 12, 2009, 03:03 AM
You can get your CCW before you turn 21. You just can't actually carry concealed.

Ltp0wer
September 12, 2009, 03:05 AM
You can get your CCW before you turn 21. You just can't actually carry concealed.
Now that is quite interesting. I should look into that.

model of 1905
September 12, 2009, 03:09 AM
If you have decided to open carry, you have already made a decision. Carrying a gun brings with it a responsibility. If you are a law abiding citizen then open carry and don't worry about what people think. Be confident and aware. You will get over the nervousness if you are capable and competent in firearms handling. Dont worry aboit the cops or the sheeple. Remember you are not doing anything illegal. Dont carry in NPEs and dont worry about your atttire. You dont have to be wearing business attire to open carry!
Go forth, open carry and stop worrying. It aint no big deal.

Ltp0wer
September 12, 2009, 03:15 AM
If you have decided to open carry, you have already made a decision. Carrying a gun brings with it a responsibility. If you are a law abiding citizen then open carry and don't worry about what people think. Be confident and aware. You will get over the nervousness if you are capable and competent in firearms handling. Dont worry aboit the cops or the sheeple. Remember you are not doing anything illegal. Dont carry in NPEs and dont worry about your atttire. You dont have to be wearing business attire to open carry!
Go forth, open carry and stop worrying. It aint no big deal.
Sorry, what does NPE stand for?

I'm kinda new to all these abbreviations you guys use.
Ooh, Maybe you guys could answer a few other terminology questions so I don't have to make a new thread.

What does it mean when a slide is "in battery"?
And what does "half-lug" and "full-lug" mean? Something about weight and revolvers, I think.

model of 1905
September 12, 2009, 03:16 AM
Non permissive environment.

smithmax
September 12, 2009, 04:50 AM
And obviously you still can't CC it if they have a "No Firearms" sign.

You are not breaking any laws (at least in my state) by CC'ing in a store with No Firearms" sign. If they see you carrying (which they shouldn't), they can ask you to remove the gun from the premises. If you fail to comply with that, then it turns into trespassing.
-As always, I am not a lawyer (IANAL)

A gun being in "Battery" means that the slide is all the way forward. Some guns will not fire if the slide is not all the way forward, which is something you need to be aware of.

Mike J
September 12, 2009, 11:12 AM
Although I don't open carry unless going to the woods I do want to second what Gearchecker said about a secure holster. If you are going to open carry a quality holster with retention capability (at the very least a thumb break strap) is a must.

22-rimfire
September 12, 2009, 11:14 AM
Make sure you know the telephone number of whom ever is going to bail you out of jail the first time. One call. Also have a lawyer whom you will call in the event you need one. :D

Good luck with your endeavor. I think you are better off waiting until your 21 and getting a concealed carry permit.

swinokur
September 12, 2009, 11:18 AM
As someone else mentioned, the MOST important thing to know IMO is the law in your state in regards to the use of deadly force. The best and easiest way to learn this is to take a CCW class. If you break the law, it can impact you legally and financially for the REST of your life. Know the justifications for the use of deadly force and find out if your state laws protect you civilly in case of a lawsuit brought by family of a decedent or someone you injure with your weapon.. Do you know what castle doctrine is? Does your state have one? What about "stand your ground" law? What about use of deadly force involving crimes against property? Some states allow it, many do not. You need to know all of this. You need to know all these things to carry responsibly. In many states you can be found innocent criminally and stiil be found guilty in a civil suit, which can ruin your life.

Carry safely and responsibly.

Stu

DasFriek
September 12, 2009, 11:36 AM
You have more guts than i got thats for sure!
Im almost 40 but ive been out of the "gun" loop almost 20 years,and i would think it would be refreshing to see a younger person OC who does it in the right manner.
Id add that you should watch your tone,language and excitability when speaking.The more respectful you talk to anyone the more respect you will get back.
Dont be loud,obnoxious or trying to stand out,vulgarity will do those things in an even worse light.

6.5x55swedish
September 12, 2009, 11:48 AM
You know that publicly displaying a handgun on a forum when you are not yet 18 is very irresponsible? You are not old enough to possess one yet so you just openly admitted to breaking the law and you implicated whoever you recieved the gun from as well. (Youth Handgun Safety Act, 1994)

I think responsibility should be a prerequisite for carrying a gun anyway.

nitetrane98
September 12, 2009, 01:09 PM
I'd advise you to wear the thing around the house a lot and get completely used to how it feels. I say to do this to try and negate any urges to adjust your weapon and otherwise causing any undue attention to yourself by fidgeting with it. Believe me, at first, you'll likely be the one looking at your gun far more than anybody else until it becomes like another part of your body.

I'd have a ready made reply for the troublemakers who want to challenge your rational for OC. "Why do you want to carry a gun?" I'd say, "Why does a dog lick his balls?" Because he can. Nah, not really. Maybe just, "Because I can."

Kind of reminds me of the story of a football coach who discouraged his players from excessive celebrations after scoring a touchdown. "We'd really like them to act like they'd been in the endzone before."

You'll be nervous and self conscious, hell I was nervous and was in full LEO uniform. Try not to act like it's the first time you ever carried a gun.
Good luck.

Kleanbore
September 12, 2009, 01:21 PM
I like gearchecker's advice.

Taking the CCW course should give you knowledge of the law--that's a necessity.

Couple of additional thoughts: do everything possible to never appear the least bit threatening; avoid confrontation at all costs; stay out of questionable places; practice situational awareness at all times; and if possible, get some weapons retention training.

nitetrane98
September 12, 2009, 01:24 PM
And what does "half-lug" and "full-lug" mean? Something about weight and revolvers, I think.

Yes, if you have to lug a gun around weight is something to think about. Guys who carry Deagles, Ruger Redhawks, 500 S&W's are commonly heard to say, "Man, that gun is a full lug." Smaller guns and most plastic types are only referred to as "half-lugs" as they are only half as hard to lug around.

I'm being silly. I think what you're referring to is the under lug on a revolver. It is the extra lump of steel that shrouds the ejector rod. Some guns only have enough to cover the rod, half lug, others like a Python, extends the lug all the way to the end of the barel, full lug.

nitetrane98
September 12, 2009, 01:28 PM
You know that publicly displaying a handgun on a forum when you are not yet 18 is very irresponsible? You are not old enough to possess one yet so you just openly admitted to breaking the law and you implicated whoever you recieved the gun from as well. (Youth Handgun Safety Act, 1994)

Thanks for the reminder. I'm out of laxative.

Ltp0wer
September 12, 2009, 01:29 PM
You are not breaking any laws (at least in my state) by CC'ing in a store with No Firearms" sign. If they see you carrying (which they shouldn't), they can ask you to remove the gun from the premises. If you fail to comply with that, then it turns into trespassing.
-As always, I am not a lawyer (IANAL)

A gun being in "Battery" means that the slide is all the way forward. Some guns will not fire if the slide is not all the way forward, which is something you need to be aware of.
Sweet, thanks.

Although I don't open carry unless going to the woods I do want to second what Gearchecker said about a secure holster. If you are going to open carry a quality holster with retention capability (at the very least a thumb break strap) is a must.
I have a holster with a thumb break strap. It's a great holster.

Make sure you know the telephone number of whom ever is going to bail you out of jail the first time. One call. Also have a lawyer whom you will call in the event you need one.

Good luck with your endeavor. I think you are better off waiting until your 21 and getting a concealed carry permit.
Good advice about the telephone number. As for waiting, I just can't do that. That's another 3 years away. When I turn 21, I'll CC, but until then, I am going to do what I can.

As someone else mentioned, the MOST important thing to know IMO is the law in your state in regards to the use of deadly force. The best and easiest way to learn this is to take a CCW class. If you break the law, it can impact you legally and financially for the REST of your life. Know the justifications for the use of deadly force and find out if your state laws protect you civilly in case of a lawsuit brought by family of a decedent or someone you injure with your weapon.. Do you know what castle doctrine is? Does your state have one? What about "stand your ground" law? What about use of deadly force involving crimes against property? Some states allow it, many do not. You need to know all of this. You need to know all these things to carry responsibly. In many states you can be found innocent criminally and stiil be found guilty in a civil suit, which can ruin your life.

Carry safely and responsibly.

Stu
Thanks Stu. All that stuff is in my Arizona Gun Owners Guide book. My state does have a castle doctrine. I can use deadly force to prevent certain types of property crime (Arson is the only one that comes to mind at the moment). I'll be sure to read over the deadly force chapters in my book.

You have more guts than i got thats for sure!
Im almost 40 but ive been out of the "gun" loop almost 20 years,and i would think it would be refreshing to see a younger person OC who does it in the right manner.
Id add that you should watch your tone,language and excitability when speaking.The more respectful you talk to anyone the more respect you will get back.
Dont be loud,obnoxious or trying to stand out,vulgarity will do those things in an even worse light.
That's exactly what I think. Thanks for the advice.

You know that publicly displaying a handgun on a forum when you are not yet 18 is very irresponsible? You are not old enough to possess one yet so you just openly admitted to breaking the law and you implicated whoever you recieved the gun from as well. (Youth Handgun Safety Act, 1994)

I think responsibility should be a prerequisite for carrying a gun anyway.
No, I was not aware that it is very irresponsible. What law did I break?
According to ARS 13-3111 and ARS 13-3108, I can have a firearm in possession when on private property owned or leased by my legal guardian. Calling it "my gun" isn't breaking any laws. Of course, techinically until I am 18 it is not legally my gun. There is nothing irresponsible about posting a picture of my gun. I wanted to know what people thought about it or if people thought it would be dangerous to carry, so they could inform me. I think that is responsible.
Stop trying to rain on my parade.

Ltp0wer
September 12, 2009, 01:32 PM
I'd advise you to wear the thing around the house a lot and get completely used to how it feels. I say to do this to try and negate any urges to adjust your weapon and otherwise causing any undue attention to yourself by fidgeting with it. Believe me, at first, you'll likely be the one looking at your gun far more than anybody else until it becomes like another part of your body.

I'd have a ready made reply for the troublemakers who want to challenge your rational for OC. "Why do you want to carry a gun?" I'd say, "Why does a dog lick his balls?" Because he can. Nah, not really. Maybe just, "Because I can."

Kind of reminds me of the story of a football coach who discouraged his players from excessive celebrations after scoring a touchdown. "We'd really like them to act like they'd been in the endzone before."

You'll be nervous and self conscious, hell I was nervous and was in full LEO uniform. Try not to act like it's the first time you ever carried a gun.
Good luck.
Haha, thanks. I already wear my gun in it's holster around my house, but I didn't want to mention it because I thought it was silly. :P

nitetrane98, Thanks. You'd think google would be more helpful for these kinds of terms, but it isn't.

Zane
September 12, 2009, 01:44 PM
I strongly support those who open carry. I happily donate to their legal defense funds. This is not to say don't open carry. You have to be ready and willing to be stopped, detained, arrested and charged, falsely.

You may not do anything wrong, but the wrong police officer coupled with the wrong prosecutor and you may find yourself facing a judge.

What that means is that you have to know exactly what to do and what not to do. Even very small things can be blown up into a BS disorderly charge. This also means that you need to have the name and number of an attorney (on your person) that is familiar with gun law and have the means to pay said attorney. A few of the cases I've run into on the forums are successfully defended for about $3-4K. Those individuals knew their playbook and did everything cleanly.

Keep in mind that since you are under 21, someone will bring up the question of if you can legally buy/own/possess a handgun. A police officer may try to justify a detention on those grounds to investigate how you obtained the firearm. Even found to be totally clean, it will be a hassle.

+1 to most of the above advice. Make sure you have a holster with good retention.

ScottG1911
September 12, 2009, 02:17 PM
You know that publicly displaying a handgun on a forum when you are not yet 18 is very irresponsible? You are not old enough to possess one yet so you just openly admitted to breaking the law and you implicated whoever you recieved the gun from as well. (Youth Handgun Safety Act, 1994)

I think responsibility should be a prerequisite for carrying a gun anyway.

Well I think the man already cited you wrong on that. However, who cares! the law is crap. I don't advocate breaking laws, but I sure as hell aint crying over it. there are plenty of laws that I wouldn't mind violating, but I'm a good boy and don't wanna get in trouble :neener:

I may or may not have open carried one time. my state says you can open carry at 18, even says you can possess a handgun at 18. it also says who ever gave you that handgun is now in trouble. We'll just say I dreamed I open carried and in this dream I thought I knew all the laws. The police stopped me, searched me, and ran a warrant check. all was good, and they handed the gun back to me and sent me on my way. that dream could have ended up alot worse. I no longer have those dreams of open carrying until I'm 21 lol. so just know your laws, seems like you already do. and don't worry about it.

and for those who say obey the police like they are your master, Forget that. they work for you, and they will violate your rights given a chance. I've seen it first hand.. stand up for yourself.
if the cop want your ID, you can comply. I'm bullheaded and love my freedoms so I aint handin mine over without reason. I'm just rambling now cause I'm just sick of people bending over to the police, it's sick.

ScottG1911
September 12, 2009, 02:24 PM
You may not do anything wrong, but the wrong police officer coupled with the wrong prosecutor and you may find yourself facing a judge.

What that means is that you have to know exactly what to do and what not to do. Even very small things can be blown up into a BS disorderly charge. This also means that you need to have the name and number of an attorney (on your person) that is familiar with gun law and have the means to pay said attorney. A few of the cases I've run into on the forums are successfully defended for about $3-4K. Those individuals knew their playbook and did everything cleanly.

yup, I learned that the hard way.

I had someone in my own damn house try and stab me in the chest with a screw driver or knife, couldnt tell. they didn't realize that I had the trusty 40 cal in an IWB holster because I knew something was up. well when they charged me a backed up to my front door, and then drew the gun, stoppiign them in their tracks. police were called and I went to jail. at pre-trial I displayed multiple witness reports backing me up, and even a 911 call where the assailant attacked again while on the line. prosecuter could have dropped all charges, but how could he make more money??? so he reluctantly under pressure dropped it to a disorderly conduct with a $250 fine, OR I could have went to court for $3500. I'm 19 man, I don't have that kind of money. this is why my post above is scorning the police so much, Don't like'em at all no more.

6.5x55swedish
September 12, 2009, 03:20 PM
The law you broke is the youth handgun safety act which is a federal law so it trumps your state laws.

Not trying to rain on anybodies parade, but it is unlawful for anybody under the age of 18 to possess a handgun or the ammo for one unless 1. they are employed as a law enforcment officer or military. 2. it is temporary possession related to farming or ranching, shooting training etc.

My issue with this is that the antis only become antis when gun owners act irresponsibly. You just posted on a public forum that you are a gun owner and have no regard for the law.... in essence you are giving gun owners a bad name and the antis more ammo for their fight.

Follow the law and you will not have any problems.... disobay the law and post openly about it and trouble will follow.

The punishment for the person who sold/gave you that gun is up to 10 years and a felony on their record. just FYI. If I was that person I would really be pissed when ATF showed up at my door because you went public on a forum.

22-rimfire
September 12, 2009, 04:11 PM
As for waiting, I just can't do that. That's another 3 years away. When I turn 21, I'll CC, but until then, I am going to do what I can.

When I was 18, I would have said the same thing. Youth. I loved it and hated it. Be aware that not everyone will automatically assume you know how to be safe or handle a firearm. You will be watched, scrutinized, judged, and criticized. Be prepared and like others have said know the laws as they apply to you. Just remember when you carry, it can NOT be concealed even for a moment (read the actual statute on this) and pay attention to the requirements when inside a vehicle in your state.

Conan1
September 12, 2009, 05:12 PM
We can open carry in KY but its not something I do on a regular basis due to having my CDWL. I would rather no one know I'm carrying to being the one first targeted by someone that might want to break the law. On the other side is your legally in the right to carry but can't get a concealed permit them by all means carry openly. The main thing is to CARRY! LOL

Girodin
September 12, 2009, 05:22 PM
Dress nicely. Reactions will probably vary anyhow based on where you live and the general attitudes towards guns. However, I have found that if I am dressed nicely and going about my business people seem to not bat an eye. Perhaps they think I am cop, perhaps they just not notice, or maye they just aren't worried. I will admit if I see a clean cut guy with a gun it gives me less pass than if the guy dresses like tu pac.

I am guessing an 18 yr old doesn't wear slacks and a dress shirt so the degree to which this works might be lessened but I would imagine being clean cut and well kempt would still get you more postive reactions.

Blue Brick
September 12, 2009, 05:36 PM
I am fully legal and I wear whatever I want. I don’t concern myself in making a good appearance to others. No one will bother you or give you a second look except foreigners. I am a native Arizonan, and if they don’t like our laws then they can go back where they came from, namely California, Illinois, New York, and all of New England!

LubeckTech
September 12, 2009, 05:39 PM
You need to know the laws concerning firearms and motor vehicles in your state. Open carry laws and firearms in a vehicle can be quite different so don't violate either. Be ready for ANYTHING just because you follow all the laws, cross all the "t"s dot all the "i"s and lower case "j"s does not mean you won't wind up in jail. Have the number of a good attorney willing to repersent you and don't rely on the court appointing a Public Defender that will properly repersent you. The Good Guys don't always win - don't learn that the hard way!

Blue Brick
September 12, 2009, 05:41 PM
There are very little laws here.

6.5x55swedish
September 12, 2009, 05:41 PM
All of New England? Never heard of a state called Vermont which has absolutely no gun laws of their own other than what the fed imposes on them? You can carried concealed or open, loaded or unloaded, no permits required. New England states are some of the least restrictive in the country, contrary to popular opinion.

Erik M
September 12, 2009, 06:12 PM
Know your rights know the local laws by heart, stay confident in yourself. heres a slap on the back for having the desire and drive to open carry :D

cleardiddion
September 12, 2009, 08:22 PM
I'm sure it's come up before but one of the key things that I've found out through experience is to look confident. It helps tons and tons, not only in Oc'ing but in other areas of life too.

Oh, and try not to listen to any negative comments on you excercising your right, they're just being silly.

I started open carrying this past summer as I made my way across country going back home to CO. Yeah, it was pretty nerve wracking at first but eventually I got used to it. Generally, the reaction that I got was that of curiosity and mild surprise since most people didn't know that it was something that was legal for an average Joe to do. I think the only negative comments that I got about the issue was actually here on THR.
And on another positive note, it got my girl a lot more comfortable around guns and I don't see anything wrong with that :)

Cards81fan
September 12, 2009, 09:33 PM
Not trying to rain on anybodies parade, but it is unlawful for anybody under the age of 18 to possess a handgun or the ammo for one unless 1. they are employed as a law enforcment officer or military. 2. it is temporary possession related to farming or ranching, shooting training etc.
Sounds to me like the OP's doing a whole lot of training ;)

Cards81fan
September 12, 2009, 09:44 PM
Dress nicely. Reactions will probably vary anyhow based on where you live and the general attitudes towards guns. However, I have found that if I am dressed nicely and going about my business people seem to not bat an eye. Perhaps they think I am cop, perhaps they just not notice, or maye they just aren't worried. I will admit if I see a clean cut guy with a gun it gives me less pass than if the guy dresses like tu pac.

I am guessing an 18 yr old doesn't wear slacks and a dress shirt so the degree to which this works might be lessened but I would imagine being clean cut and well kempt would still get you more postive reactions.
+1000

I know there's all kinds of styles now, from prep to emo (w/ girl jeans and all :D ) to skater to whatever, but dressing like you're straight out of the J. Crew (http://www.jcrew.com/AST/Browse/MensBrowse/Men_Feature_Assortment/NewArrivals.jsp) catalog would certainly help.

I'm 28, so I'm not all that removed from younger clothing styles, but if you really want to be taken seriously (gun owner or not) dressing nicely is best.

Most days I'm in stylish jeans (http://us.levi.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3525416&view=all&kwCatId=&kw=527&origkw=527&sr=1&gclid=CI3qzKat7ZwCFSUMDQodSFS6jA) with funky thick-banded watches (http://www.fossil.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=12052&catalogId=10052&departmentCategoryId=30001&categoryId=30016&productId=22115247&Ne=16&N=4294959898+4294959902&Va=32&Ns=p_subcategory_sequence%7c0%7c%7cp_weight%7c0%7c%7cp_order_history%7c1&rec=12&pn=c&imagePath=JR1071) and my arms are all tattoo'ed up, but people don't really mind; if you got on a nice pair of shoes and button-down or polo, you'll gather much more respect from the average bystander.

Not saying it right or wrong, but just the way it is...

Blue Brick
September 12, 2009, 11:21 PM
My bad.

Blue Brick
September 12, 2009, 11:23 PM
By Doug Little on Dec 3, 2008 in AZ CCW Questions, Federal Firearms Laws, Kids and Guns, Legal Issues

Question: I am 18 and interested in purchasing a handgun from a private seller. I was told by a police officer and a gun shop that I cannot buy or a have a handgun unless I am 21 regardless of who I got it from (private seller or federally licensed firearms dealer). They also told me that I could only use a handgun at the range or when I am hunting and must be accompanied by an adult. Is this true? If not, can I open carry where it is legal to carry a firearm? Where can I find clear law about this situation? I also called the BATF and the man I spoke to said I needed to have a written letter of consent from a parent who could own a handgun, but he was unsure. Is that true as well?
Answer: Wow…lots of questions here, some of which I have answered in a previous post. Something that becomes very clear from this question is that there is a lot of misinformation and confusion regarding the laws surrounding handgun ownership between the ages of 18 and 21.
First, the comments that you got from the police officer and gun store were partly true. You must be 21 years of age to purchase a handgun from a federally licensed firearms dealer. Many people think that the same age limit extends to private party sales. It does not. You can legally purchase a handgun through a private party sale at age 18.
Second, the comments about having to be accompanied by an adult are based in fact. For a person between 14 and 18 years of age, they can be in possession of a firearm under a set of limited circumstances, but must be accompanied by an adult. If they are not, they must be in possession of written permission from a parent or guardian stating that they have the gun with permission. This permission can only be granted by the parent or guardian if they can legally own a firearm. So you see, the answers you got from BATF, the police officer and gun store were correct, except they have the age wrong. Those rules only apply if you are not yet 18 years of age. The specific details of the law are covered in the link to ARS 13-3111 below.
Third, since you can legally own a handgun at age 18, you are also permitted to legally carry it openly in Arizona. This open carry only applies in places where it would be legal for you to have a firearm. You cannot carry concealed and cannot get a concealed weapons permit until you are 21 years old in Arizona. By the way, while I encourage legal open carry, you might want to be a little circumspect about where and when you openly carry. As you can see from the confusion about the law that you have already encountered, you may be opening yourself up to conversations with law enforcement about your age and ability to legally possess a firearm.
If you’d like to take a look at my previous post, I think you might find some good information there. Here is the link:
http://arizonaccwpermit.com/2008/05/31/handgun-carry-in-arizona-between-the-age-of-18-and-21-years-of-age/
Finally, you asked about the specific law. It is
ARS 13-3111. Minors prohibited from carrying or possessing firearms; exceptions; seizure and forfeiture; penalties; classification

Blue Brick
September 12, 2009, 11:24 PM
By Doug Little on May 31, 2008 in Firearms Training, Legal Issues

Question: I am 19 years old and I’ve been thinking of purchasing a handgun from a private seller. Of course, everything would be done legally. I understand I have the right to carry a gun, but will it get me into any problems if it is not registered? Is there a way I can get it registered with out getting into trouble? Also any other advice would help a lot.


Answer: First, let me clarify Arizona and Federal laws on this subject. In Arizona, it is perfectly legal for a person 18 years of age or old to own a handgun.


However, Arizona will not allow anyone under the age of 21 to carry a concealed handgun. You must be 21 years old before Arizona will issue you a concealed weapons permit.


Federal law also requires that you be 21 years old to purchase a handgun from a Federally licensed gun dealer.


The only way that someone between the ages of 18 and 21 can legally purchase a handgun is from a private party. In order for a private party sale to be legal, the transaction must be face-to-face between two residents of the same state. I strongly recommend that any private party transaction include a bill of sale with the price, the model and serial number of the gun being transferred, the full name and address of the buyer and the full name and address of the seller. I would also strongly advise that both buyer and seller check the other’s driver’s license to verify identity and age.


As an 18 year old, you can carry your handgun openly, as long as you are in a place where it is legal for you to carry a firearm. I would recommend that you consult the Arizona DPS Concealed Weapons Permit page for information places where concealed or open carry is not permitted. Another resource is the “Arizona Gun Owners Guide” by Alan Korwin. You can find copies at most gun stores or online at http://www.tacticaldirect.com


In Arizona it is not necessary to register your firearm. Federal gun dealers are required to record the transaction using ATF Form 4473. They are also required do a background check, although this can usually be completed while the purchaser waits.


Private party transfer do not require either of these steps.


My only other advice to you is to use extreme discretion where you carry you firearm and make it a point to understand the law regarding where you can legally carry and when you could legally use your firearm for self-defense. Carry your gun in the wrong place or use it inappropriately and you can end up in serious legal trouble and if you’ve done something serious, you could even lose your right to own a firearm at all.

Ltp0wer
September 13, 2009, 12:24 AM
Blue Brick, 6.5x55swedish was talking about minors possessing firearms.

22-rimfire
September 13, 2009, 12:27 AM
Good luck Ltp0wer. I hope it works out for you and it's a good experience.

Ltp0wer
September 13, 2009, 12:39 AM
Good luck Ltp0wer. I hope it works out for you and it's a good experience.
Well, earlier today, the decocking/safety lever of my gun snapped right off after I dry fired it (with a snap cap chambered D:).

Luckily, my father has the same gun as me and will let me open carry his. The only problem is that he doesn't really know much about guns and doesn't want me to put more than 20 rounds through it at the range. He thinks that it will damage his gun. I'll respect his wishes though. I'll be too busy shooting my new mosin nagant anyway.

I am going to call my favorite gun store and see if they have any suggestions on getting it fixed. I might have to call S&W on monday and see if I can get them to fix it.

Do any of you have any experience in getting guns repaired? I have no idea what to do. The safety lever just snapped right off.

22-rimfire
September 13, 2009, 12:51 AM
Talk to the gunshop. May mean a trip to S&W unfortunately.

Ltp0wer
September 13, 2009, 01:19 AM
I have another question. Is there any chance of my background check going wrong when I buy my gun on thursday? I have never been charged of convicted of any crimes. Do they deny people at random sometimes, or do they have a legitimate reason for all of the denials?

mp510
September 13, 2009, 01:29 AM
I have another question. Is there any chance of my background check going wrong when I buy my gun on thursday? I have never been charged of convicted of any crimes. Do they deny people at random sometimes, or do they have a legitimate reason for all of the denials?
You should be fine, unless there is a clerical error somewhere.

6.5x55swedish
September 13, 2009, 09:34 AM
Sounds to me like the OP's doing a whole lot of training

That is all good and fine for joking around purposes, but it is no joke in real life. There was a court case a couple of years ago were charges where brought against a guy who had a assault rifle for sale and he borrowed it to a guy who was interested in buying it so he could take it to the range and fire it. Anyway the gun miss-fired a three round burst and then jammed. Somebody called the police because of full auto fire at the range and the owner of the gun received a 5 month prison term for transferring a machine gun illegally. It didn't matter that he did not modify the gun, it was a mechanical defect, it also didn't matter that he never sold the gun, just borrowing it to the other guy was considered a transfer.

In an effort to preserve our rights we need to be responsible gun owners. For every millions of guns fired in this country without killing somebody, it only takes one to turn a whole group of people against guns. And contrary to popular opinion, this country is majority rule.

There was a concealed carry case in Ohio last year where a store owner was being robbed and pulled his concealed and killed the masked robber. Well the robber turned out to be a kid and the kid killed the store owner before he himself died. That stirred up a huge media storm. Now the antis have a case where a concealed weapon cost the owner his life and killed a kid.... So now they can stand back and say...Look it doesn't work. It only takes one bad outcome to move their cause forward.... despite the 100s of good outcomes per year.

luigi
September 13, 2009, 10:51 AM
You may wish to contact your local Open Carry organization, find out when their next meeting is and make THAT your first time OC-ing. You can almost guarantee no police hassles and you won’t feel like such a sore thumb.

Just something to consider

22-rimfire
September 13, 2009, 11:07 AM
Is there any chance of my background check going wrong when I buy my gun on thursday? I have never been charged of convicted of any crimes. Do they deny people at random sometimes, or do they have a legitimate reason for all of the denials?

As said, you should be fine. Makes me nervous everytime I have the NICs check done. I would suggest you record your social security number on the Form 4473 as it helps identify you just in case there is somebody with the same name and a criminal background.

TheProf
September 13, 2009, 11:47 AM
Many here have commented that one's demeanor and dress matters a lot on the public's perception of our OC... I agree!!!!

For those that say, "as long as I'm legal...I'll dress any way I want...." , remember that we must win "hearts and minds" to retain our rights to carry. That new person from out of state that does not understand our OC laws or that ignorant anti... will ...one day, speak their mind in the voting booth. Open Carry is intimidating enough for many, let's not make it more intimidating by "looking like a criminal slob" that OC.

Make sense? (Before someone gets upset... I'm on your side. I really love the idea of Open Carry, Concealed Carry, or Both. Heck...carry your whole collection for all I care.)

Cards81fan
September 13, 2009, 02:35 PM
That is all good and fine for joking around purposes, but it is no joke in real life. There was a court case a couple of years ago were charges where brought against a guy who had a assault rifle for sale and he borrowed it to a guy who was interested in buying it so he could take it to the range and fire it. Anyway the gun miss-fired a three round burst and then jammed. Somebody called the police because of full auto fire at the range and the owner of the gun received a 5 month prison term for transferring a machine gun illegally. It didn't matter that he did not modify the gun, it was a mechanical defect, it also didn't matter that he never sold the gun, just borrowing it to the other guy was considered a transfer.

There's a completely different set of circumstances and laws at place here. This is a 17 year old permissively posessing a firearm in home of his parents. Referencing a questionable prison sentence for someone who "illegally transferred" an automatic firearm is not an argument relevant to the original poster possessing a firearm.

freakshow10mm
September 13, 2009, 03:10 PM
If the OP has written permission from his caretaker to possess said weapon, that is an exception to the federal law.

Also, since when does a picture posted on a website equate to actual possession of said firearm? Could the OP have taken any picture of a similar weapon from the internet and hosted it at a hosting site, thus not being in possession of the firearm? Perhaps the caretaker set the weapon out for the OP to snap a quick picture of and then immediately returned the weapon to a locked safe until the OP was 18yo.

Don't jump to your own conclusions unless you know the whole story. Since you don't, it's ignorant to spout off about legalities of juvenile firearm possession.

Ltp0wer
September 13, 2009, 03:15 PM
If the OP has written permission from his caretaker to possess said weapon, that is an exception to the federal law.

Also, since when does a picture posted on a website equate to actual possession of said firearm? Could the OP have taken any picture of a similar weapon from the internet and hosted it at a hosting site, thus not being in possession of the firearm? Perhaps the caretaker set the weapon out for the OP to snap a quick picture of and then immediately returned the weapon to a locked safe until the OP was 18yo.

Don't jump to your own conclusions unless you know the whole story. Since you don't, it's ignorant to spout off about legalities of juvenile firearm possession.
I did kinda mention that sometimes I wear the gun in the holster around the house, but we can keep that quiet. ;)

freakshow10mm
September 13, 2009, 03:17 PM
If you have written permission to possess the weapon, the federal law does not apply as written consent is an exception.

DeathByCactus
September 13, 2009, 03:19 PM
You need to respect peoples fears...

How is fear respectable?

6.5x55swedish
September 13, 2009, 05:05 PM
If the OP has written permission from his caretaker to possess said weapon, that is an exception to the federal law.

Also, since when does a picture posted on a website equate to actual possession of said firearm? Could the OP have taken any picture of a similar weapon from the internet and hosted it at a hosting site, thus not being in possession of the firearm? Perhaps the caretaker set the weapon out for the OP to snap a quick picture of and then immediately returned the weapon to a locked safe until the OP was 18yo.

Don't jump to your own conclusions unless you know the whole story. Since you don't, it's ignorant to spout off about legalities of juvenile firearm possession.

Please.... You know full well that he does not carry a piece of paper around with him every time he is in possession of said gun. He did not even know the YHSA existed, how would he know he can be exempted with written permission?

If you read farther down on the legal parent/guardian written permission part you will note a section that states something to the effect of: law enforcement can confiscate arm if youth acts inappropriate and will return it to the lawful owner after investigation is completed. Basically indicating that the transfer with written permission is for use only, that the gun it's self still belongs to an adult.

freakshow10mm
September 13, 2009, 05:13 PM
No I do not know if he does or not and I couldn't really care less if he does or not. Don't make assumptions based on your opinion. Welcome to the internet.

Deanimator
September 13, 2009, 05:28 PM
I don't know about Arizona, but Ohio's a one party consent state for recording. You can record any conversation to which you're a party. That's a BIG deterrent against police reports turning into creative writing exercises, especially regarding what you allegedly consented to. And on that subject, if stopped, consent to NOTHING not specifically required by law. Comply with an officer's orders, legal or otherwise, but NEVER consent. EXPLICITLY state that you are NOT consenting and that you are COMPLYING UNDER DURESS. That on an audio recording destroys the claim that you "consented" to an illegal detention, search, or whatever. It also provides documentary proof that the officer KNOWINGLY pierced his own qualified immunity.

KNOW applicable state law. Some officers either don't know or don't care about the law. Those who do know, may attempt to bluff you into consenting to an unlawful demand on their part, from providing printed ID, to not carrying, to concealing your firearm without the proper credentials to do so.

If you know and obey the law, and document any police encounters, you will come out on top in the end.

smallbore
September 13, 2009, 06:04 PM
Don't be surprised by the looks and comments of the general public as well as reaction by local law enforcement. Be sure to find out where you cannot carry a weapon (postings) & be prepared to be confronted by business/property owners who may ask you to leave.

Ltp0wer
September 13, 2009, 08:13 PM
Please.... You know full well that he does not carry a piece of paper around with him every time he is in possession of said gun. He did not even know the YHSA existed, how would he know he can be exempted with written permission?

If you read farther down on the legal parent/guardian written permission part you will note a section that states something to the effect of: law enforcement can confiscate arm if youth acts inappropriate and will return it to the lawful owner after investigation is completed. Basically indicating that the transfer with written permission is for use only, that the gun it's self still belongs to an adult.
Deanimator, thanks for the solid advice. After reading quite a bit of that "You and the Police" book I have, I know exactly what to say to police officers.

smallbore, Yeah, thanks. Judging from what most people say about the general arizona public, I don't think I'll get any looks or comments (Or atleast, not any bad ones :D).

Well, even though my dad heavily disapproves of open carrying, he still lent me his gun (which is the exact same model as the one I was going to carry) to open carry. Since the safety lever was the thing that was broken, I just swapped slides on the guns. I will still be carrying mine, just with his slide. There is nothing unsafe about that, right?

Trebor
September 13, 2009, 08:23 PM
Use a good holster, not a cheap crappy fabric "universal" holster.

A holster with a retention device would be a good idea as well.

AKAMac
September 13, 2009, 09:11 PM
I know this may sound silly but try carrying an empty holster on your round abouts.
We can actually do this in Ca. when not hunting (leagle oc) and you can get informative reaction in a non-punishable, if it occurs, situation.
This will also get you familerized with oc outside your home and comfortable with public reaction.
Mac

Ltp0wer
September 13, 2009, 09:34 PM
I know this may sound silly but try carrying an empty holster on your round abouts.
We can actually do this in Ca. when not hunting (leagle oc) and you can get informative reaction in a non-punishable, if it occurs, situation.
This will also get you familerized with oc outside your home and comfortable with public reaction.
Mac
I've thought about carrying an empty holster, but I don't think it is necessary. I've only got 4 more days until my birthday.

And I attached an image of my holster. It's got a thumb-break strap. Is that good enough?

gearchecker
September 14, 2009, 12:23 AM
Ltp, I found a really good site to define acronyms.

I had the same problem with these gun owners acronyms. My first on was DAO.
I figured "Dead Ass On" knowing these guys. I really stands for Double Action Only, like on a revolver or a semi-auto handgun. One of the guys sent me this weblink. I hope it helps (if they don't block me posting a website. http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com
~GQ~

gearchecker
September 14, 2009, 12:40 AM
Ltp,
By the way in case I forget and don't get online in time - Happy 18th Birthday!

Since you are new at this and are asking for advice and help, I'm going to make you an offer that will be only to you. I've been keeping my eye on this entire post and the advice you are getting is exactly what you need.
Please take the words and advice from the experienced to heart, and learn by our mistakes and advice.

None of us want you to make a bad decision here.

You really need a holster that is more substantial than that one. I bought on exactly like yours and as soon as I got it I put it back up for sale on ebay.
It will work, but honestly it will break down very quickly and won't look good for very long either. The magazine on the front is also one more thing to bump into something with
I hate to say it but you shold really get a leather holster or a retention holster like a CQC SERPA or something similar. Cabela's has a big selection of holsters and they aren't all that expensive.

I'll tell you what. HERE IS MY OFFER TO YOU and TO YOU ALONE -- If you will, PM me with your addresss and I'll buy you a holster for your birthday. It'll be a few days late but I'll feel better knowing that somebody like yourself who is asking for help and advice will do this right. I'm not some old geeser preaching to you on what you can and can't do, but if you are serious of starting this off right get back to me. I'll e-mail a couple of links so you can choose one and I'll make sure it get's to you.

Ltp0wer
September 14, 2009, 01:19 AM
Ltp,
By the way in case I forget and don't get online in time - Happy 18th Birthday!

Since you are new at this and are asking for advice and help, I'm going to make you an offer that will be only to you. I've been keeping my eye on this entire post and the advice you are getting is exactly what you need.
Please take the words and advice from the experienced to heart, and learn by our mistakes and advice.

None of us want you to make a bad decision here.

You really need a holster that is more substantial than that one. I bought on exactly like yours and as soon as I got it I put it back up for sale on ebay.
It will work, but honestly it will break down very quickly and won't look good for very long either. The magazine on the front is also one more thing to bump into something with
I hate to say it but you shold really get a leather holster or a retention holster like a CQC SERPA or something similar. Cabela's has a big selection of holsters and they aren't all that expensive.

I'll tell you what. HERE IS MY OFFER TO YOU and TO YOU ALONE -- If you will, PM me with your addresss and I'll buy you a holster for your birthday. It'll be a few days late but I'll feel better knowing that somebody like yourself who is asking for help and advice will do this right. I'm not some old geeser preaching to you on what you can and can't do, but if you are serious of starting this off right get back to me. I'll e-mail a couple of links so you can choose one and I'll make sure it get's to you.
I sent you a PM.

Werewolf
September 14, 2009, 04:34 PM
I have another question. Is there any chance of my background check going wrong when I buy my gun on thursday? I have never been charged of convicted of any crimes. Do they deny people at random sometimes, or do they have a legitimate reason for all of the denials?

Ummmmm....

What background check?

In AZ you will not be buying your handgun from an FFL as that violates Federal law. Any handgun you purchase must be in a face to face transaction with another resident of AZ. In that case no NICS check is required. If the seller is asking that you get one it is doubtful that an FFL will run one for you as you are not yet 21 and by definition the authorizing agency would have to deny it.

Aside: How is it that your father who is adamantly against you OC'ng will be loaning you his pistol which is identical to the one you broke the decocker on so you can OC?

gearchecker
September 14, 2009, 05:17 PM
Comments made within this specific post have been deleted due to error in information on my part.
I will not intentionally keep incorrect information posted due to the possibility of mis-interpretation of that information. ~GQ~
I apologize for any misunderstanding or assumptions that I may have caused

luigi
September 14, 2009, 05:39 PM
Are you saying that a legal resident can't buy a gun from a gun dealer in Arizona?

He's saying that it is against federal law for an 18 year old to buy a hand gun from an FFL anywhere in the country

gearchecker
September 14, 2009, 06:00 PM
Werewolf you are absolutly correct in the statement about a person under 21 purchasing a handgun. I just looked it up and I was dead wrong in my information. Goes back to "retract foot from mouth before opening".
From what I also read it will be illegal for a person under 21 to purchase handgun ammunition as well.
I'm not sure what the state laws for FTF exchange in Arizona are.

I formaly request retraction of my prior statements as they were in error.

Ltp0wer
September 14, 2009, 08:34 PM
Ummmmm....

What background check?

In AZ you will not be buying your handgun from an FFL as that violates Federal law. Any handgun you purchase must be in a face to face transaction with another resident of AZ. In that case no NICS check is required. If the seller is asking that you get one it is doubtful that an FFL will run one for you as you are not yet 21 and by definition the authorizing agency would have to deny it.

Aside: How is it that your father who is adamantly against you OC'ng will be loaning you his pistol which is identical to the one you broke the decocker on so you can OC?
Oh, sorry if I didn't make it clear, Werewolf. I am buying a Mosin Nagant at the shop, not a pistol.

My dad is lending me his pistol because he knows that open carrying is very important to me (I've been talking about it for months). And like the good dad he is, even though he disagrees with what I am doing, he wants me to be happy.

Superlite27
September 15, 2009, 09:44 AM
LtP:

My advice - Confidence. You know the law. You are acting lawfully. Don't forget this. Always maintain an outward appearance of confidence in your lawful conduct. This means always maintain a CONFIDENT demeanor, NOT a "COCKY" demeanor. (big difference).

Why? People (including police) will notice how you act and base their response on YOUR actions. If you act scared, put-off, or nervous, anyone who sees you will say to themselves, "Why is this person acting so fidgety? They must be doing something wrong." It might only be because you are uncomfortable carrying a firearm in public for the first time. These people don't know this. A police officer might just walk up to chat out of curiosity, and when you get all nervous, it will raise alarm whistles. "Why's this guy sweating so profusely?"

Remember: You are a law abiding citizen. Act like it. Your demeanor will reassure passers-by that you are, indeed, doing something you're allowed to. This goes for police as well. Don't get cocky, but act like you are within the law, because you are.

The worst that could possibly happen is that an unknowledgeable officer would arrest you because HE is unfamiliar with the law. This is not the end of the world, as you are innocent until PROVEN guilty. Don't do anything that will endanger this out of fear or nervousness. Remain calm, and comply.

I have personally been detained for OC'ing. I remained calm when placed in the back of a police car. A supervisor arrived, and after a calm discussion, my firearm was returned, and I was let go with an apology. Some might say "SUE THEM!", but the desired result was acheived. Had I acted nervous or frightened, I might have justified the detention in the eyes of the officers. Had I acted indignant and cocky, they might have taken it further to see if their arrest would "stick".

Good luck carrying.

NavyLCDR
September 15, 2009, 10:27 AM
Just be ready for a Crap storm if you are downtown PHX, Scottsdale maybe. Most of the other cities were not as up tight about open carrying.
Being ex LEO in Gilbert, I can give you a couple suggestions.
1. If you are approached by law enforcement, keep your hands at about belly height and folded.
2. I would suggest starting to keep your wallet (With ID) in your front pocket, opposite the side where you will wear your firearm.
3. ID yourself, and advise of the weapon. If asked for ID, before moving your hands, advise the office of everything you will do, and move slow.
4. I believe the law in AZ, if I remember correctly, is you can carry open, but you can't have a round chambered, but can have a mag inserted.
5. When you go to travel in your vehicle, the law changes a bit. If you don't have a concealed permit, you need to have the handgun in plain sight, with no mag inserted, and ammo in a separate locked compartment.

Understand that most of the suggestions above are either not AZ law, or are blatant violations of your rights while engaging in perfectly legal behavior. Read this Federal court's ruling:

http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m9d9-Federal-judge-rules-police-cannot-detain-people-for-openly-carrying-guns

The actual ruling itself is the first link in the above article. To see what the court is talking about in action watch the 45 minute video, The citizen's guide to surviving a police encounter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

Second, be aware of school zones. Without the concealed carry permit, you are subject to the 1000ft rule. It's a pain, but the law does apply. It is contained in 18 USC 922(q). Actually, I would suggest you read all of 18 USC 922, but especially (q). It also contains several exceptions such as on private property, etc.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

Third, go to opencarry.org, in the Arizona section, see if you can get one of the guys there to do something with you the first time. I am always happy to meet people and go to lunch or whatever. The opencarry picnics and gatherings are a bunch of fun.

Finally, if you are approached by LEO, try to stay calm. If you know the law, be confident that you are not breaking the law. Politely refuse to have your rights violated. If LEO insists upon violating you rights, explain to them prior to submitting to their requests that you feel that you are being officially detained by them and only because you feel that you are being officially detained will you comply with their requests. Be sure to document their badge number and name. Be confident that, now the Federal court precedence has been very clearly set, that you will be getting a nice bonus for your bank account, should you choose to take it to court.

I carry everywhere I go and a lot of times I will have my thirteen year old soon-to-be stepdaughter with me. She gets a big kick out of it when someone asks me about my gun. A lot of times she won't even let me reply before she chimes in! I started with a holster exactly like yours. You will want to switch soon. It's just too floppy on the belt. Also, the spare magazine holder belongs on your weak side, not on your strong side. Think about how you will retrieve that magazine during a magazine change. Personally, just for me, I don't carry a spare magazine, but it does belong on the other side if you choose to carry one. I now have two holsters both with two belt loops on them and I feed my belt through the holster loop, through my side pants belt loop, and then through the second loop on the holster. I find that the thumb break retention strap is all the retention I need.

Oh, and thank you! for being willing to stand up and show that you care enough about yourself and other people to have the means available to protect yourself and your family and for being willing to display to the public that it is simply acceptable for Americans to be able to do so.

thorazine
September 15, 2009, 11:51 AM
4. I believe the law in AZ, if I remember correctly, is you can carry open, but you can't have a round chambered, but can have a mag inserted.

Really?

NavyLCDR
September 15, 2009, 12:44 PM
Really?

Yes, that is what he really believed! :D

KBT1911
September 16, 2009, 08:08 PM
Get ready to be thrown out of a lot of places including malls, restaurants etc and to have the police called on you for no reason. I used to live in VA and OC'd for awhile, but ended up CCW because I got sick of the constant harrassment. Once you get old enough for CCW you'll be relieved.

NavyLCDR
September 16, 2009, 09:27 PM
Unless he wants to actually stand up for his rights and continue to OC.

conw
September 16, 2009, 09:35 PM
I can find other ways to stand up for my rights. I bet the constructive, solicited conversations I have while CCWing when the topic of self-defense comes up do as much as anyone open carrying who "shows people it can be safe" by example.

I totally support the right to open carry. That said, I think in most places it is like a full time job watching out for various types of unwanted attention, trying to cool off uncomfortable situations, etc. Not worth it to me. Now, when I tried it I didn't have constant interference, but enough that it was not worth it to me.

As for meeting chicks when you have a gun on your belt openly, forget about it unless you're a cop.

Blue Brick
September 16, 2009, 11:41 PM
"I believe the law in AZ, if I remember correctly, is you can carry open, but you can't have a round chambered, but can have a mag inserted."

Wrong. You may have it full loaded, plus there are no magazine round limits here.

Ltp0wer
September 17, 2009, 12:11 AM
I can find other ways to stand up for my rights. I bet the constructive, solicited conversations I have while CCWing when the topic of self-defense comes up do as much as anyone open carrying who "shows people it can be safe" by example.

I totally support the right to open carry. That said, I think in most places it is like a full time job watching out for various types of unwanted attention, trying to cool off uncomfortable situations, etc. Not worth it to me. Now, when I tried it I didn't have constant interference, but enough that it was not worth it to me.

As for meeting chicks when you have a gun on your belt openly, forget about it unless you're a cop.
Like I said. The second I turn 21, I am going to try as hard as I can to get my CCW.
I would rather people not know I have a gun.

Anyway, my open carrying adventure starts at 8 am, 12 hours from now. I'll be sure to take pictures and stuff, and post them in this thread or a new one.

Lets hope I don't get arrested.
Thanks everyone for your replies.

Shooter64738
September 17, 2009, 12:45 AM
LtpOwer....
You've heard many of the awful things that can happen when you open carry. I'm in Missouri, and we have similar laws to AZ.. Now let me tell you some of the better things that might happen.

1. While pumping gas, out of town travelers may ask you how to get to a destination.
2. Anyone who doesn't know you, may ask you about a drug bust they read about in the paper, or heard on the news.
3. Sometimes hunters will ask you if you know the number to the local conservation office.
4. What agency are you with?

The absolute KEY to open carry IMO, is looking sharp. If you look like a thug, you're a thug with a gun. If you look clean cut, you're a cop.

Use a proper holster (already mentioned several times) use a proper belt, not a k-mart special. If you carry magazines or speed loaders, make sure they look nice and clean, not like you drug them out of storage.

Don't get nervous if a complete stranger comes by and asks you questions, they think any local LEO might know. I've actually had a pretty good experience with open carry so far. I also have my concealed permit, but I don't conceal very often.

Do your homework, dress well, stay clean cut as others have mentioned, and I doubt you'll have too many adventures with peace officers. Be ever mindful of your personal space, and keep a sharp eye on everything around you. It's been pretty good OC'ing for me.

Erik M
September 17, 2009, 01:16 AM
4. What agency are you with?

If you look like a thug, you're a thug with a gun.

If you look clean cut, you're a cop.


I hope you are speaking metaphorically.

I think we are over thinking the OP's question, from what I have gatherered from the last few pages makes OC sound intimidating and a hassle, Ive never (in years) had a confrontation or question asked when OC by an LEO or business owner. I am from rural Kentucky though.

Shooter64738
September 17, 2009, 10:39 AM
I hope you are speaking metaphorically.

I think we are over thinking the OP's question, from what I have gatherered from the last few pages makes OC sound intimidating and a hassle, Ive never (in years) had a confrontation or question asked when OC by an LEO or business owner. I am from rural Kentucky though.
I'm speaking somewhat metaphoric, but more to how people will perceive your appearance with a weapon. However I have been asked what agency I was with before. I don't have a squad car, I don't have handcuffs, but I carry a weapon, and I dressed neatly. That was just their perception.

My point, is your point as well. I've not had any issues open carrying in my area. I'm rural as well, but I do travel a lot to larger cities, and my experience has been similar to yours. I'v just not had any really bad experiences with it, in fact it's been pretty pleasant.

swinokur
September 17, 2009, 12:06 PM
I think the OC situation in VA has improved. I live in nearby MD and OC occasionally when I go to VA. Some stares and long looks, but I have not been asked to leave any establishments or had LE called. I have a VA non resident CHP as well. Fairfax County Police are extremely professional and knowledgable about OC in VA. . There are some restaurants that don't like it and they either have signage or ask you to leave the establishment and lock your weapon in your car. Needless to say I don't patronize any place that is not gun friendly. There are plenty that are.

Ltp0wer
September 17, 2009, 12:17 PM
Well. It's my birthday.
I am heading out to breakfast at Village Inn in 10 minutes (Open carrying, Of course :D)

Also, my free NRA membership just got confirmed.

swinokur
September 17, 2009, 12:22 PM
Happy Birthday. Go enjoy your 2A rights. By the way it's Constitution Day today. 222 years. How cool is that?

:)

Stu

StealthyBlagga
September 17, 2009, 12:56 PM
I'm not going to read 5 pages of replies, so here is my advice - apologies if it duplicates that from others:

In AZ, OC of a fully loaded handgun is perfectly legal almost everywhere that CC is legal (the exception would be city/county parks that are m posted "no guns without CCW", and liquor establishments under the new law). I echo the advice to take a CCW course now anyway because its mostly a course in AZ law and defensive mindset, which you would find useful - its also very inexpensive as such advice goes.

As for your carry method, the gun you have chosen is good - it's black. Wear it in a black holster on a black belt, with dark jeans and a black T-shirt. Chances are most people won't even notice it, which will simplify your life a lot. If a cop notices, I doubt he will hassle you.

For all people who OC, my advice is to use a retention holster so that the gun can't get snatched. Oh, and not one of those crappy "ballistic nylon and velcro" jobs, but a real leather holster on a strong gunbelt. For your M39, a thumb-break is probably going to be your best choice, as I doubt any of the more modern retention holsters are available for it.

Where in AZ do you live ? Come on up to Rio Salado and shoot some USPSA matches to hone your skills with your carry gun.

Oh, and happy birthday :D

zoom6zoom
September 17, 2009, 01:16 PM
I used to live in VA and OC'd for awhile, but ended up CCW because I got sick of the constant harrassment.
I don't know how long you've been gone, but that situation has markedly changed, in large part because of the very active OC community here.

mcdonl
September 17, 2009, 01:18 PM
Too bad we cannot add a poll.... I suspect he will go un-noticed. I hope so.

youngda9
September 17, 2009, 02:42 PM
Too bad he can't legallly CC...then all this chatter would be completely unnecessary.

To the TS, I wouldn't suggest replacing the slide on your dad's frame and just assuming the gun will operate 100% reliably. But it's probably ok for a temp fix until you get your lever replaced.

Best of luck.

conw
September 17, 2009, 03:53 PM
Now let me tell you some of the better things that might happen.

1. While pumping gas, out of town travelers may ask you how to get to a destination.
2. Anyone who doesn't know you, may ask you about a drug bust they read about in the paper, or heard on the news.
3. Sometimes hunters will ask you if you know the number to the local conservation office.
4. What agency are you with?

The absolute KEY to open carry IMO, is looking sharp. If you look like a thug, you're a thug with a gun. If you look clean cut, you're a cop.

I'd rather not be perceived as a cop. Respectfully, I don't know why non-cops would enjoy being treated like a cop.

Shooter64738
September 17, 2009, 06:45 PM
I'd rather not be perceived as a cop. Respectfully, I don't know why non-cops would enjoy being treated like a cop.
How exactly does a well dressed clean shaven guy make other people stop thinking what they are thinking? I don't have a badge. I drive a compact car. I get asked all kinds of weird questions. Maybe they think I'm a walking version of google maps and wikipedia. I enjoy having polite conversations with people. Thats not something you need to be a peace officer for. Frankly I'd rather they know I'm just a polite open carry citizen. It changes peoples minds about the population in general.

Ltp0wer
September 17, 2009, 10:23 PM
I'm not going to read 5 pages of replies, so here is my advice - apologies if it duplicates that from others:

In AZ, OC of a fully loaded handgun is perfectly legal almost everywhere that CC is legal (the exception would be city/county parks that are m posted "no guns without CCW", and liquor establishments under the new law). I echo the advice to take a CCW course now anyway because its mostly a course in AZ law and defensive mindset, which you would find useful - its also very inexpensive as such advice goes.

As for your carry method, the gun you have chosen is good - it's black. Wear it in a black holster on a black belt, with dark jeans and a black T-shirt. Chances are most people won't even notice it, which will simplify your life a lot. If a cop notices, I doubt he will hassle you.

For all people who OC, my advice is to use a retention holster so that the gun can't get snatched. Oh, and not one of those crappy "ballistic nylon and velcro" jobs, but a real leather holster on a strong gunbelt. For your M39, a thumb-break is probably going to be your best choice, as I doubt any of the more modern retention holsters are available for it.

Where in AZ do you live ? Come on up to Rio Salado and shoot some USPSA matches to hone your skills with your carry gun.

Oh, and happy birthday :D
Yeah, I wore a black belt and a black shirt.
Also, I went to Rio Salado today. I shot my new mosin nagant.

Everything went awesome today. No one really seemed to notice it. I noticed someone checking me out in the grocery store (I was buying a cigar :D), but he realized I was cool and backed off.

And yeah, my carry pistol did fine at the range with my dad's slide. I didn't fire more than 20 rounds just to be safe. I was too busy with my mosin nagant anyway.

Thanks for all the replies, guys!

Eschaton
September 17, 2009, 10:35 PM
Eurgh.

East sider.

I'm sorry :p I wouldn't have given you the advice if I'd have known that.

searcher451
September 17, 2009, 11:09 PM
Advice to a first-timer? Sure: Speak softly, and conceal a big caliber and a couple of extras mags of back-up. :)

gearchecker
September 18, 2009, 01:14 AM
Ltp0wer,
Your Holster is on it's way to me as we read this.
For all you that have made the holster recommendations to him, he has listened well and picked out a Black Bianchi Basketweave Holster, with thumb break retention.
Ltp, as promised, I will get it shipped to you the moment it gets delivered to my work place.
You will start your young adult life properly, I pray.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY. ~GQ~

conw
September 18, 2009, 02:06 AM
I enjoy having polite conversations with people. Thats not something you need to be a peace officer for. Frankly I'd rather they know I'm just a polite open carry citizen. It changes peoples minds about the population in general.

Well, one would hope it would change their minds. Somehow I suspect people do not generalize well. They will probably not think of you when they hear anti-gun propaganda on the news, and I bet it won't affect the way they vote.

I talk to an absolute ton of strangers. I'm just extroverted. I also have some pretty in-depth discussions about gun rights, with both friends and strangers. I think I argue persuasively and in a friendly manner that convinces people to open their mind to gun rights, etc. I just don't personally see any added benefit from OCing, except answering people who say "Is that legal?" and then parlaying into conversation.

I must have misread you. It seemed like you enjoyed being mistaken for a cop. Certainly, some people on OC.org do. Oh well...to each his own.

Richard.Howe
September 18, 2009, 11:33 AM
Don't.

NavyLCDR
September 18, 2009, 12:13 PM
Don't.

...pay any attention to Dick.

Anyway, Congratulations on you're first experience, Ltp0wer! One more step towards freedom!

mcdonl
September 18, 2009, 01:42 PM
I was thinking ltp... one of the cool things is that when you do turn 21 and and get your CCW you will no go through the standard uncomfortable period where you have to get used to having a gun with you as many people... myself included... go through.

Happy Birthday!

Erik M
September 18, 2009, 05:58 PM
Respectfully, I don't know why non-cops would enjoy being treated like a cop. Two words, Mall ninja. I would not want anyone to think just because I am armed that I am an LEO. It is not my responsability to help anyone in need nor protect anyone but myself.

44-henry
September 19, 2009, 01:46 AM
I guess I fail to understand why you would really want to carry openly in the first place. Before you jump all over me for that statement let me explain. First, you have lost all element of surprise so if somebody is intent on causing harm they will probably take you out first and they will have the advantage. Second, you are going to shock a lot of people who aren't used to seeing open carry. People are going to be watching you like a hawk, law enforcement included. In short, you are going to be drawing a lot of attention to yourself and gun owners in general and most of it won't be positive and, unfortunately, a lot of that is going to be worse for you because of your age. Also, even if you take every step to stay legal, if some LEO really wanted to be a pain they could probably come up with some reason to make an arrest and at least hold you in jail for awhile.

Ltp0wer
September 19, 2009, 02:00 AM
I guess I fail to understand why you would really want to carry openly in the first place. Before you jump all over me for that statement let me explain. First, you have lost all element of surprise so if somebody is intent on causing harm they will probably take you out first and they will have the advantage. Second, you are going to shock a lot of people who aren't used to seeing open carry. People are going to be watching you like a hawk, law enforcement included. In short, you are going to be drawing a lot of attention to yourself and gun owners in general and most of it won't be positive and, unfortunately, a lot of that is going to be worse for you because of your age. Also, even if you take every step to stay legal, if some LEO really wanted to be a pain they could probably come up with some reason to make an arrest and at least hold you in jail for awhile.
While I agree with you on the element of surprise deal, I think you're wrong. Sure, If I was old enough to conceal, I would. That doesn't mean that I think open carrying is useless. I think that if you open carry, a lot of conflict is prevented. I have seen the horror story threads on this forum where people have been confronted by a shady character. Almost always, the perp in question was either unarmed or carrying a knife. Most of the time, once the weapon carrier pulled out his or her concealed weapon, or even made the person aware of the gun, the perp backed off.

As far as shocking people goes, Who cares? People in my town need to be warmed up to firearms. I also don't mind being watched. In fact, I'd prefer that the people watch me. It would help them see that an upstanding citizen can carry a gun and not be a problem. As long as I am not doing anything wrong, or causing trouble, it shouldn't have any negative effect on what people think about firearms. When I open carried yesterday, no one seemed to care. The only thing I noticed was that some manager from the grocery store I went into followed me around until he realized I was a customer, and not some hooligan.

And yeah, A LEO could arrest me and hold me in jail even if I haven't broken any laws, but he's not going to want to unless he thinks I am a threat. As long as I don't look like one, I don't think I have to worry about that.

Eschaton
September 19, 2009, 02:32 AM
I guess I fail to understand why you would really want to carry openly in the first place. Before you jump all over me for that statement let me explain. First, you have lost all element of surprise so if somebody is intent on causing harm they will probably take you out first and they will have the advantage. Second, you are going to shock a lot of people who aren't used to seeing open carry. People are going to be watching you like a hawk, law enforcement included. In short, you are going to be drawing a lot of attention to yourself and gun owners in general and most of it won't be positive and, unfortunately, a lot of that is going to be worse for you because of your age. Also, even if you take every step to stay legal, if some LEO really wanted to be a pain they could probably come up with some reason to make an arrest and at least hold you in jail for awhile.

OC is all you can do in Arizona until you're 21. So that's one reason.

2nd, Arizona really isn't that bad when it comes to open carry. I've done it plenty of times and no one has given me a second look, even police officers. And I did it walking into a gas station and they didn't say a word to me.

NavyLCDR
September 19, 2009, 11:41 AM
I guess I fail to understand why you would really want to carry openly in the first place. Before you jump all over me for that statement let me explain. First, you have lost all element of surprise so if somebody is intent on causing harm they will probably take you out first and they will have the advantage. Second, you are going to shock a lot of people who aren't used to seeing open carry. People are going to be watching you like a hawk, law enforcement included. In short, you are going to be drawing a lot of attention to yourself and gun owners in general and most of it won't be positive and, unfortunately, a lot of that is going to be worse for you because of your age. Also, even if you take every step to stay legal, if some LEO really wanted to be a pain they could probably come up with some reason to make an arrest and at least hold you in jail for awhile.
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