Is it legal to sell reloaded ammunition?


PDA






Newton
September 12, 2009, 09:57 PM
I don't reload myself, but I do have a quantity of reloaded ammo I obtained from a friend that is in a caliber I no longer need.

Can I safely re-sell it to third parties?

If you enjoyed reading about "Is it legal to sell reloaded ammunition?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
9mmepiphany
September 12, 2009, 10:16 PM
you're supposed to have an FFL

StuntHeavy
September 12, 2009, 10:39 PM
Most people wont buy reloads since they don't know exactly what went into them, or if they are safe or not. Noone want's a blown up gun.

That said, it's illegal to manufacture and sell reloads. On the flip side, if someone reloads 500 rounds for their firearm, shoots 450 of them, and then sells it, I have heard of people selling the remaining 50 rounds as "for components only".

It is my understanding that you can sell them, but not with the intent to do it as a business, or for any sustained period. If you have an amount of ammo for a caliber you no longer shoot, selling it simply to liquidate it, is legal from what I understand. I'm not a lawyer, but from what I've read it seems to be ok, as long as its not with the intent to get into the business of selling reloads.

armoredman
September 12, 2009, 10:58 PM
There is an FFL for selling remanufactured ammo. Having said that, I would never use anyone's reloads but my own. :)

rbernie
September 12, 2009, 11:10 PM
Can I safely re-sell it to third parties? Not without the appropriate FFL and business license.

FIVETWOSEVEN
September 12, 2009, 11:45 PM
if something was wrong with those rounds than you could be sued if it caused damage and harm. and by what everyone else said you would need a FFL.

LeonCarr
September 13, 2009, 12:14 AM
The average remanufacturer of ammunition for resale has the FFL (An 06 or 07 or something like that), the business license/tax certificate/resale license/whatever your state calls it, and usually a minimum of 3 MILLION DOLLAR Liability Insurance Policy.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Newton
September 13, 2009, 01:02 AM
Thanks, this would have been a couple thousand rounds only as a one-off deal, but it's worth knowing the regs.

On the other hand, it's interesting to note how many guys I see at gun shows selling their reloads, must be a widely ignored law.......

9mmepiphany
September 13, 2009, 01:08 AM
^^^

how do you know they don't have an FFL?

it's not like they have to display it or log anything when they sell

isp2605
September 13, 2009, 07:28 AM
Since you're not the manufacturer and you're selling off your personal ammo stock then you don't need an FFL to sell it.

hounddog
September 13, 2009, 08:02 AM
It is alot like building a gun. You can build a gun for personal use without an ffl. However building a gun with the intent of selling it requires an ffl. However, if you build a gun for yourself and then decide you don't like it, or need the money to pay bills, whatever... you can sell it. The whole "intent" issue gets tricky though.

cocojo
September 13, 2009, 08:10 AM
You need a remanufacturing license, pay an FET tax on the ammo you make and be covered with a liablilty policy for your own protection. I did this and gave it up. 11% tax at the time and the price of the insurance made the endevor frutile.

isp2605
September 13, 2009, 09:21 AM
He doesn't need a remanufacturing license, he doesn't need to pay FET, and he doesn't need liability insurance. Read what he wrote. He didn't reload the ammo. It's ammo he got from someone else. He's just cleaning out his personal stock.
Some of you guys are making the answers a lot harder than they need to be. Are you just trying to show how "smart" you are by adding a bunch of stuff that doesn't pertain to the OP's question?

freakshow10mm
September 13, 2009, 09:28 AM
On the other hand, it's interesting to note how many guys I see at gun shows selling their reloads, must be a widely ignored law.......
An FFL is not required to sell manufactured ammunition at a gun show.

how do you know they don't have an FFL?

it's not like they have to display it or log anything when they sell
Yes you do. If you are an FFL operating at a gun show you MUST display your license.

My company is a commercial ammunition manufacturer. This is what you need to be legal:

Type 06 FFL
Any local business or zoning permits
Register with the US State Dept under ITAR rules (even if you don't export)


The FFL is $30 for 3 years. ITAR is $2250 yearly. Yes it's mandatory for manufacturers. Search here for ITAR and note the link I've posted before with the text of the law. Heed it.

Liability insurance is recommended, but is not required. If you don't have insurance you are a fool. A $1 million/occurrence-$2 million aggregate policy is $2,100 per year ($175/mo).

Federal Excise Tax must be paid by the manufacturer on any ammunition they load and sell (barter, trade, give out as demos, samples, or gifts). Ammunition is taxed at 11% of the sale price. You can pay it or factor it into the price and let the customer pay it.

Remanufactured ammo is taxed if the manufacturer supplies the brass.
If the customer supplies brass, retains title, and not a single casing is added to the lot, it's FET free.
The above applies to ammo used for personal use only.
If a customer sends brass to be reloaded, then sells it, they are liable for 11% FET as it is not for personal use then.
Ammo is tax free only to local LE agencies, the Dept of Defense, and the Coast Guard. The ammo must be delivered directly from the manufacturer to the agency, no distributor middle man is allowed.
All Federal LE agencies must pay FET.

freakshow10mm
September 13, 2009, 09:29 AM
Isp is right in this situation. He hasn't manufactured the ammunition so he is free to sell it how he sees fit.

BlkHawk73
September 13, 2009, 10:40 AM
I certainly wouldn't buy reloads from anyone I didn't trust with my life nor would I take the responsability to resell any.

RBezona
September 13, 2009, 11:01 AM
The original question and the varied answers got me to thinking, so I went to the
ATF website and downloaded the FFL reference guide.

Very interesting.

All FFL items relate to businesses and they are clearly defined as intent to make a
living selling etc. So you do not need an FFL to sell ammunition as a private citizen.
But of course I am no attorney that is just what I understand from the read.

Also interestingly the GCA (gun control act)states this:
A license is not required for dealers in ammunition only.
[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17) and 922(b)(5), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.125][/B]

after reading a bit of the FFL document I would encourage every gun owner to download it and read as much as possible(it is a hard read), but some very interesting things
are in it. Some contrary to popular belief, some just strange, but I will not hijack this thread to discuss that.

By the way you must not forget the state and local laws!

freakshow10mm
September 13, 2009, 11:52 AM
The license is to manufacture ammunition. To deal in ammunition there is no FFL and no FFL requirement. It's not "tread lightly or ask a lawyer BS". It's plain English. To sell what someone else manufactures it OK. To load and sell ammunition you load yourself you will need an 06 FFL.

buck460XVR
September 13, 2009, 12:37 PM
The license is to manufacture ammunition. To deal in ammunition there is no FFL and no FFL requirement. It's not "tread lightly or ask a lawyer BS". It's plain English. To sell what someone else manufactures it OK. To load and sell ammunition you load yourself you will need an 06 FFL.

Thanks for the verification Freak, that's the way I always understood it.

I buy full/partial boxes of factory ammo and reloads at garage sales and auctions......most of the time for little of nuttin'. Got some good nostalgic ammo boxes to set on the shelf that way too.


I certainly wouldn't buy reloads from anyone I didn't trust with my life nor would I take the responsability to resell any.

Just bought 300 rounds of .357 reloads from a garage sale.....for $4.50. They were in MTM plastic boxes and marked 158 XTPs........and they were. Guy standing next to me when I paid for them said the same thing as you. I asked him if he had ever heard of a bullet puller. I then informed him the boxes alone were worth $10, and the emptied preprimed brass and the pulled bullets would save me $50 to $70.....so for another $5 worth of Unique, and a few hours of spare time, I could have a whole afternoon worth of shooting. He then told me.... "ain't no way you can resize the brass with the primers in"............:rolleyes:

rbernie
September 13, 2009, 01:44 PM
The license is to manufacture ammunition. To deal in ammunition there is no FFL and no FFL requirement. It's not "tread lightly or ask a lawyer BS". It's plain English. To sell what someone else manufactures it OK. This is absolutely correct, and I sadly misread the OP. The original manufacturer needed an FFL to sell their reloads to you, but since you didn't load them yourself you do not need an FFL.

Mea culpa.

9mmepiphany
September 13, 2009, 02:04 PM
thanks for the correct info

i misunderstood also :(

KarenTOC
September 13, 2009, 05:51 PM
Thanks, this would have been a couple thousand rounds only as a one-off deal, but it's worth knowing the regs.

I read the posts. Phew! It would just be easier to buy a new gun...

dfariswheel
September 13, 2009, 08:00 PM
The key here is whether you're IN BUSINESS to sell reloaded ammo, or whether you're just getting rid of some ammo you don't need.

Of course you can sell the ammo without any license, you're not doing it as a business and its more or less a one-time deal.
However, if the person you sell it to has any problem, he could sue you in these litigious times.

Newton
September 13, 2009, 09:12 PM
Thanks for the clarification guys.

As with most things that are firearms related, it seems there are bear traps all over the place.

TimboKhan
September 14, 2009, 12:07 AM
Yes you do. If you are an FFL operating at a gun show you MUST display your license.

True as this may be, I have been going to gun shows for years and years and have never once seen a FFL displayed. I am more than willing to accept that this might entirely be because I have never bothered to look for an FFL, but the fact remains that I have never seen one displayed.

freakshow10mm
September 14, 2009, 08:25 AM
Nonetheless, all FFLs are to be displayed at gun shows.

bhp9mm
September 15, 2009, 08:29 AM
i would not sell them or buy them its not worth the risk if somebody blows up there gun

Deanimator
September 15, 2009, 09:20 AM
Not without the appropriate FFL and business license.
Does it not say on the FFL application form that one does NOT need an FFL to sell ammunition?

freakshow10mm
September 15, 2009, 10:43 AM
There is no FFL issued for ammunition dealer, only ammunition manufacturer. Dealers in ammunition do not require and are not issued an FFL.

The Type 06 FFL is "Manufacturer of Ammunition for Firearms Other Than Destructive Devices". Key word being manufacturer. A Type 07 Firearm Manufacturer FFL may also manufacture ammunition.

TRguy
September 15, 2009, 12:58 PM
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#h3

(H3) May a person licensed as a manufacturer of firearms also manufacture ammunition? [Back]

Yes. The person may also manufacture ammunition (not including destructive device ammunition or armor piercing ammunition) without obtaining a separate license as a manufacturer of ammunition.

(H4) Is a person who reloads ammunition required to be licensed as a manufacturer? [Back]

Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit. No, if the person reloads only for personal use.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a) (i) and 923(a), 27 CFR 478.41]

9mmepiphany
September 15, 2009, 04:58 PM
Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit

that was my earlier reference.

i thought he was asking about selling reloads for profit

freakshow10mm
September 15, 2009, 05:51 PM
If you load or reload ammunition and are compensated in any way, you must be licensed as an ammunition manufacturer. The ATF does not mess around with this stuff.

benzy2
September 16, 2009, 01:06 AM
What if we look at this another way. Lets assume that these rounds were loaded by a non FFL holding person for personal use and were given to a friend to shoot and for whatever reason the friend quit shooting that caliber and decided to sell them. Since the FET was never paid who is responsible? What if the brass was given to the person reloading by the person intended to shoot that is now selling? What if I find a stock pile of reloads a relative left me and I decide to sell them?

freakshow10mm
September 18, 2009, 12:33 PM
Lets assume that these rounds were loaded by a non FFL holding person for personal use and were given to a friend to shoot and for whatever reason the friend quit shooting that caliber and decided to sell them. Since the FET was never paid who is responsible?
The manufacturer.

What if the brass was given to the person reloading by the person intended to shoot that is now selling?
So, person A gives brass to person B who reloads it and gives it back to person A. Person A sells it. In that case person A is not using ammunition for personal use so person A (seller) would be liable for FET.

If I take in range brass from indoor ranges, reload it, sell it to them as ammo, I'm not liable for FET. If they sell it, they are liable for FET because it's not for personal use.

What if I find a stock pile of reloads a relative left me and I decide to sell them?
The manufacturer would be liable for FET.

If you enjoyed reading about "Is it legal to sell reloaded ammunition?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!