LnL 380 Case Feeding Problem


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XPLSV
September 13, 2009, 04:38 PM
Looking for some help...hopefully I'm missing something easy here.

Did my first time setup for .380 Auto on my Hornady LnL last night. This is a new caliber for me. I had been loading 357 SIG and swapped out some of the press parts last night, worked the initial die setups, etc. Took longer to get a good crimp and then realized my COL as required by the PPK/S was a bit shorter than what was in the book. But, hey, at least I didn't run off a bunch of rounds before I check if they would cycle. So...back through the adjustments some more.

So, today, I'm putting out a good bullet...but I'm not getting proper case feeding into the shell plate. I was initially hitting the edge of the shell plate and made the necessary case feed timing adjustments by lowering down the cam wire and I finally got a good sync on the case being presented into the shell plate. I'm using the #2 V block and the #16 shell plate, as per the instructions. The problem I am having is the case is not sliding properly into the shell block. While the case is now coming in centered on the shellplate opening, the front base of the case is catching enough on the spring to tilt the case forward and it does not slide under the lip of the shell plate. I took some photos of this at very slow speeds (well, stopped for the photo), but I have the same issue at normal speeds...moving faster doesn't allow it to just jump over the spring...it jumps out across the shell plate at that point. Perhaps I'm missing something obvious? :banghead:

http://www.lifetimepens.com/catch.jpg
http://www.lifetimepens.com/catch2.jpg
http://www.lifetimepens.com/catch3.jpg

Didn't have this problem with the 357 SIG. I have recently replaced the cam feed primer and primer slide after the former bent and the latter fractured, but did a couple hundred rounds of 357 SIG without incident prior to the new setup of last night.

Thanks for any suggestions!

Bernie

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jbrown13
September 13, 2009, 06:14 PM
Bernie, are you sure the case retaining spring is completely in the groove in the sub-plate at station one? I just looked at my LnL and the top of the case retaining spring is below the top of the sub-plate at station one. On my press the case would not have to "jump" the spring, as you put it.

Jeff

XPLSV
September 13, 2009, 07:58 PM
Jeff,

I had initially checked the shellplate to ensure I didn't have one of older design and the packaging for shellplate 16 was the same as for shellplate 10. After reading your post, I reinstalled shellplate 10 and the spring sat lower and did not impede the cartridge case movement into the shellplate. I then put shellplate 16 back in and experienced the same problem I had before. Upon inspecting the shellplates, I noticed the bottom rim is of a different design, but I am guessing the purpose of the ridge width difference is likely to accommodate the difference cartridge diameter. That be the case, I still have the spring in the same position as my initial photos for shellplate 16, whereby it "trips" up the case. Side by side pics of my shellplates below. Shellplate 16, my problem setup plate, is on the left in both photos and has more of a "V" outer rim, whereas shellplate 10 is flat across the top (or bottom, depending upon how one looks at it).
http://www.lifetimepens.com/images/shellplates1.jpg
http://www.lifetimepens.com/images/shellplates2.jpg

Walkalong
September 13, 2009, 08:19 PM
I noticed the bottom rim is of a different design, but I am guessing the purpose of the ridge width difference is likely to accommodate the difference cartridge diameter.
That is the case.

I have 11 shell plates and they are all bit different on how far in they are cut for the spring, depending on case head diameter.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=105342&stc=1&d=1252887465
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=105343&stc=1&d=1252887494
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=105344&stc=1&d=1252887509

Walkalong
September 13, 2009, 08:30 PM
I just checked which ones have the pronounced "tapered" cut to them. It seems all the rimmed calibers do and the auto calibers don't.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=105345&stc=1&d=1252888184
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=105346&stc=1&d=1252888188

jbrown13
September 13, 2009, 09:59 PM
Bernie, I see what you and Walkalong mean, but I don't see how that would keep the retention spring from falling into the subplate groove as the spring rides above the tapered section. If the height/thickness of the shellplates are the same that shouldn't matter. I have used the .38/.357 shellplate and don't remember the spring riding above the subplate. I have my 9mm shellplate installed now, but tomorrow I'll install the .38/.357 shellplate and confirm that. Until you get that spring below the surface of the subplate I don't see how the case is going to enter the shellplate without tipping. I would suggest a call to Hornady is in order on this one, as you either have a bad shell plate or some other weird thing is going on.

IMtheNRA
September 13, 2009, 10:34 PM
Does the jam look like this:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q26/Brass_photo/th_669.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q26/Brass_photo/?action=view&current=669.jpg)

I'm having the same problem with .357 cases jamming since I got the shellplate back from Hornady after the EZ eject system retrofit. Both the tech and I thought that I may have a slightly warped shellplate.

He asked me to test it by noting if the jams occur on any particular shell plate station or throughout the shellplate, and I'll do that later tonight before calling Hornady back in the morning.

We both thought that if the jams are limited to one or two stations of the plate, then the fault is with the plate. I've got a marker ready, and I'm just waiting for the empties to finish tumbling before I run them through.

XPLSV
September 14, 2009, 12:31 AM
I'm having a little bit of trouble making out that photo--is the case contacting the back edge of shell plate opening, causing the case to tip? I had that trouble early on, but adjusted feeder timing by lowering the cam wire downward, per the instruction in the case feeder manual. I had mistakenly tried some pawl adjustments at first as I came across some other "hints" online...but my problem was actually solved by adjusting the wire downward. I had probably changed my original setup on that stuff when I replaced some press parts earlier in the week.

I'm sure the bottom of the shellplates differ due to caliber differences and I don't they the design, itself, is the problem. I don't know if the tolerances may be off on my shell plate? I may take some of the photos and forward them to Hornady tech support...my work hours don't quite allow me to call from area of my press. For some reason, that spring appears to be riding high...it does also have some ill affects on the ejection of the cartridges...sometimes they do not fall into the box. Doesn't appear to be related to a particular station on the shellplate, in my case.

Bernie

Randy1911
September 14, 2009, 10:46 AM
I just had to send back my #8(9mm) shellplate to Hornady. Before the retro fit conversion it worked prefect, after it jams and won't turn. Hornady said they have been having some trouble with them. Call Hornady and talk to Doug. 1-800-338-3220.

jbrown13
September 14, 2009, 02:26 PM
Bernie, I installed my .38/.357 (#6) shellplate today and the case retention spring rides below the surface of the sub-plate at station 1. My shellplates are not reworked for the EZ-ject, but were manufactured new for the EZ-ject. Don't know if that makes any difference, but I can tell you that my .38/.357 shellplate does not have as much taper as Walkalong's. It is difficult to see any difference between the 9mm and .38/.357 shellplates as far as the circumferential ridge where the spring rides is concerned.

As per my last post, I think you will have to get the spring lower in the sub-plate to have reliable case feeding. Time to call Hornady?

Jeff

Walkalong
September 14, 2009, 02:37 PM
My EZ-ject .38/.357 plate is fairly new. I was still using a blue, single detent, Generation 1 shell plate for .38/.357, so I just ordered a new plate. My .22 Hornet is new as well, but all my others have been converted, except # 8 & #16 which I put in the mail today.

They just sent my .32 Auto, .32 Long, and .40 shell plate back. For some reason they replaced the .40 plate instead of converting. I don't know why, maybe they messed up the old one. At any rate, all three of my "new" EZ-Ject plates (non converted) had a little warp to them, where none of my old plates did. The .22 Hornet was bad enough that I had to remove some material, documented in an earlier thread, (Post #23) (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=464088) and it works perfectly now.

mallc
September 14, 2009, 08:09 PM
I have to push the retaining spring into the slot at the #1 station each time I change plates.

Scott

Walkalong
September 14, 2009, 08:35 PM
I have to push the retaining spring into the slot at the #1 station each time I change plates.
Excellent point.

With some plates the spring drops in with one pull of the handle, but with others it takes 3 or 4 pulls, while a couple will need a little help with your finger. Definitely something to check.

jbrown13
September 14, 2009, 10:13 PM
I have to push the retaining spring into the slot at the #1 station each time I change plates.

Scott
Me too. But I assumed Bernie knew to do that. That's what I get for assuming. Hope that is all that it is. Sometimes the obvious is not obvious.

floydster
September 14, 2009, 10:13 PM
This is the very same problem a had with my new EZ ject with the #45 shell plate.
They said to cycle the press several times and the spring would fall into the subplate as required, well it didn't at all, I had push it down with my finger several times before it went in the subplate grove.
This is a problem Hornady has to address in my opinion as I screwed up the spring right off the bat, not pleased.
Smokeyloads

XPLSV
September 14, 2009, 10:29 PM
I push my spring in for a couple of handle cranks and it stays down...just doesn't stay down far enough with shellplate 16. I went back out and looked at each again. In the first photo, shellplate 16, the spring takes a gradual downturn and does not hug the bottom. I could push it downward but I could not get it to track along the bottom like shellplate 10. The second photo is shellplate 10: notice it takes a much sharper drop and does hug the bottom...allowing the spring to stay low enough so that it does not trip the shells coming across. I'm beginning to think I could load .380 auto with shellplate 10...

http://www.lifetimepens.com/catch3.jpg
http://www.lifetimepens.com/images/shellplate10.jpg

I did not get a chance to call Hornady today...I did send a request in for tech support from the Hornady site and referenced this thread.

Bernie

Roccobro
September 19, 2009, 01:47 PM
Do you have a new spare spring laying around you can try for S-N-G's?

Justin

XPLSV
September 27, 2009, 02:38 PM
I do have spare springs and I have tried several, all with the same results. I never received a reply from the email I sent to Tech Support, which is a little disconcerting. On the other hand, I haven't carved out the time to call Hornady on the phone...the one day I had with some time at home, I spaced it. I need to just call from work and do what I can from there.

Bernie

IMtheNRA
September 28, 2009, 01:14 AM
As I mentioned earlier, I had what appears to be the same failure to feed with my .357 brass following a shellplate retrofit to the new EZ Ject system.

I spoke with tech support and the rep said that the spring should not protrude above the groove in the subplate assembly at all. He and I suspected that the shellplate was defective or warped following the retrofit.

Later, they emailed me that they were able to duplicate the problem I reported when they used a faulty shellplate and they're sending me a replacement shellplate.

While waiting for the replacement, I installed a new spring and found that the cases tipped far less frequently, but they still tipped. Perhaps my spring grew loose and "fatter" from use and it was even more difficult for the defective shellplate to hold it in the subplate groove.

My guess is that your shellplate does not hold the spring completely in the groove.

XPLSV
October 15, 2009, 10:45 PM
A few weeks ago I did finally get on the phone with Hornady tech support and the only thing we could come up with was a possible faulty shellplate. He put me in the system for a warranty replacement and it finally arrived today. Problem solved! :) The spring stays down low, just as it did with my shellplate No. 10.

Bernie

Walkalong
October 16, 2009, 08:48 AM
Excellent.

I think Hornady has been so swamped they have let some bad plates out there. I know my three new ones were warped a bit, and I have received some LNL bushing that were not machined properly. I guess one of these days I'll send the bushings to Hornady. I fixed the plates.

Good news is they are great about standing behind stuff. Good folks.

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