[Fergy35]

I've been reading several of the knife making threads and it has rekindled my desire to try my hand at knife making. I have thought about it several times in the past, but it seems other projects and the details of life took precedence.

I finally decided to get one done and see if I enjoyed it, which I did. Here are some pictures of the finished project. This is technically the second one, but the first one did not make it trough heat treating. Must have had a stress riser or something that allowed it to split.

The blade is from a piece of "tool steel" given to me several years ago by my father-in law. He didn't know what it was, but knew it was "tool steel". The finger guard was "carved" from a piece of brass bar stock. The pins are brass brazing rod. The liners are from scrap trophy tags I found in a box of junk. The scales are from a piece of walnut I had left over from a fishing pole rack I made for my father. They have a nice tiger striping to them. I wish the camera would have picked it up better (probably my photo skills not an issue with the camera).

I know it is not anywhere near up to the standards of some of the fine craftsmen on here, but I hope you like it. Thanks for looking.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh76/Fergy35/1st%20Knife/IMG_6464r.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh76/Fergy35/1st%20Knife/IMG_6467r.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh76/Fergy35/1st%20Knife/IMG_6470r.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh76/Fergy35/1st%20Knife/IMG_6474r.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh76/Fergy35/1st%20Knife/IMG_6478r.jpg

[Fergy35]

Sorry the pictures came out so small. I apparently did something wrong.

[Searcher1970]

Looks good to me, nice lines on that knife.

[SDC]

A very nice job; I wish I could do as well :-)

[Valkman]

That is an A+ job there!

[JVoutilainen]

First? You are obviously very very talented and there really is no need for such modesty!

....the first one did not make it trough heat treating..... The blade is from a piece of "tool steel" given to me several years ago by my father-in law. He didn't know what it was, but knew it was "tool steel".

...too talented to waste your time with materials that you "do not know". When you heat treat the blade it is absolutely essential that you know what you are dealing with. For example, with carbon steel you can use water for hardening, but with alloyed steels it is often necessary to use oil (warm). And some metals harden when they are heated to a certain temperature and then left to cool down on their own.

[lt522]

Looks great keep with it.

[Black Toe Knives]

Fergy. Excellent work. You sir have a natural talent for knife making. You eye
for design and composition are almost prefect. I would be proud to put that on my table for sale as my own. I would be rethink my career choice.

Now the warning signs.
1. Did you enjoy making the knife?
2. Did you at any point while making the knife, think I would love to do this for a living?

If Either of these are true. You are on your way of being first class "professional" Knifemaker. That knife would easily sell on the knife forums for 200 plus.
Again Excellent Job.

[JVoutilainen]

I agree with black toe. However, a word of caution; never sell a blade that has been made from unknown or questionable material :). If the first one cracked in hardening there is a possibility that the second one has microscopic fractures, also. Furthermore, to guarantee good edge properties you must know the material and how to heat treat it properly.

[bikerdoc]

That is just a most incredible first knife. Good Job.

[ArfinGreebly]

Gotta say, I'm impressed.

Very nice design.

Good lines and composition.

Nothing "amateur" looking about that knife at all.

[Black Toe Knives]

HE CAN"T SELL IT. It is his first knife. It is priceless! Can you imagine what Bill Moran first knife is worth?

[hso]

I've impressed as well. That is an outstanding second effort! Did you shape the guard yourself from brass stock? Very impressive, indeed!

What equipment did you use?

The trick to getting a good image would be to set your camera on timer and set it on something if you don't have a tripod. Then it will do the rest for you if you're taking pictures outside in natural light.

[messerist]

Fine excecution and neat lines. You should hold your head high "Craftsman.":)

[Fergy35]

Thank you all for the kind words. I appreciate it very much especially coming from this crowd.

In more direct answer to some of the posts;

Black Toe Knives - I'm honored, thank you.
Now the warning signs.
1. Did you enjoy making the knife?
2. Did you at any point while making the knife, think I would love to do this for a living?

1. Yes, very much.
2. Yes, indeed. I think I need a lot more practice before I even think
something like that though. I think I will make some more as gifts first
and see how that goes.

I do find myself sketching possible blade shapes on any scrap of paper I have at hand, when I have a spare moment or two.

HSO - Actually, the pictures themselves came out pretty good. I really wanted them to show up larger here though. They are 10-megapixel pictures, but somehow showed up small in Photobucket and for some reason I could not re-size them once in there - anyone have any ideas?

As for the guard. Yes, I found a piece of brass bar stock that is 3/8" X 2" X 24" at a local scrap yard. I cut it and shaped it from there. As for tools, I have an old anvil from an estate sale, I had a 10" disc sander (gone now), a cotton buffing wheel, a Dremel, a torch and the rest was by hand.

The piece of steel had been cut previously and left limited material in the handle area. I had to heat the handle area and beat the curve in to it (my first forging effort). The rest was grinding and filing until it started to look like my sketch.

JVoutilainen - thank you very much. I plan on only using known materials from now on. I just picked-up a small batch of O-1 from a local machine shop. I'll try that soon (if I can get these other projects around the house done.

Is there any way a beginner on a limited budget can get an idea of the actual hardness level achieved in their back yard heat treating?

Thanks again guys.

[hmphargh]

That knife is absolutely BEAUTIFUL, I really wish I had the tools and skill to attempt anything close to that.

[Black Toe Knives]

Fergy, make knives to sell. It is honorable to want to give knives away as you learn or practice. But why give away a 200 dollar knife. Knifemaking is lifetime learning and practicing. Build every knife to sell. You will get good very quick. I just learn to do hollow ground. I was always told to use paint sticks to practice. But instead I grabbed a 40.00 damascus blade and started making my grinds. Damn I got good quick.

[gga357]

Very nice.

[Black Toe Knives]

OK I have heard this addressed twice. The subject of tools. You can make a knife with a saw, file and some charcoal. Tools help the knifemaker but they do not make the knifemaker.
I watched Tim Lively Master Bladesmith make a knife without one power tool on his Video knifemaking unplugged.

[Fergy35]

Black Toe Knives, I'm not sure I'd have the heart to do that to a piece of Damascus. I bet that would make you "up your game" though. Nice web site by the way. Some fine looking blades on there.

And as for the tools - you are right. In fact the blade that failed in heat treat was shaped with a saw, a couple files and some sand paper. Wasn't too pretty but it would definitely have made a knife if it had not cracked. As it is, I didn't have too many more tools involved in this one.

[cyclopsshooter]

well done sir!

you now have me thinking of trying my hand at it

[JVoutilainen]

Fergy35,

I just picked-up a small batch of O-1 from a local machine shop.

You are not going to make this easy on yourself, are you :). And that is a good thing. It is going to take some time and effort to perfect the heat treating process with that material.

What you need now is a temperature color chart and specific information on forging/hardening/annealing temperatures for this material. I am sure your local machine shop has all this information.

You can get to know your material by making hardening tests: you harden a test piece which has a somewhat sharp edge to it and memorize the temperature color in which you hardened it. After hardening you use the sharp edge to try if it can scratch the smooth surface of a glass bottle. If it does, you have achieved a hardness of approximately HRC 65+. Then you smash the test piece with a hammer, against the anvil, and see from the cross section what kind of "grain" you have produced - you aim for a silky smooth grain. When you see it, you will know what I am talking about. This is VERY important. If the grain is coarse your hardening temperature has probably been too high. Coarse grain means, among other things, that your knife would be a pain to sharpen.

Is there any way a beginner on a limited budget can get an idea of the actual hardness level achieved in their back yard heat treating?

If there is a way I would like to hear about it also.

I know there are machines for testing hardness, but they are a bit expensive for my taste. However, you can be pretty sure about the level of hardness if you follow the heat treating charts AND perform the heat treating process meticulously - in a controlled manner.

You need to go to the local library and find a book about the basics of material technology and metallurgy.

[JVoutilainen]

Oh, I forgot to mention. In addition to forging/hardening/annealing temperatures you will need to know the stress relieving temperature for 0-1, also. If you skip the stress relieving part you will risk bending or fracturing the blade in hardening.

[Valkman]

01 is a great steel to learn with because it's easy to heat treat, and it's what I used when I started. Get a magnet and when you heat up the knife prior to quenching in oil run the knife along the magnet and make sure the whole edge is non-magnetic. Then heat it up one more time and quench. Test the edge with a file (file should bounce off) and put it in the oven to temper.

You can get fancy and use clay on the spine for differential hardening or just stick the edge in the oil for a softer spine and a hard edge. I'd quench the whole thing a couple of times before I'd try an edge quench, but they are easy.

Before heat treating O1 you should normalize it, which is simply heating the piece to near non-magnetic but not all the way and then let it cool on it's own. Do this 2 or 3 times to relieve stress in the steel.

As I said, 01 is easy to work with and I've never had a knife crack during heat treat.

[hso]

O-1 is good, but 1095 is easier to work with and what I'd recommend for a knifemaker starting out.

Nice work!

[Fergy35]

You guys are the best, thanks for the tips.

I had asked them about buying some small pieces of high carbon steel like the 1095 and they came back with the O-1 and said "no charge". I figured since it was free material, I could afford to practice.

[hso]

"no charge". I figured since it was free material, I could afford to practice

Lucky and talented as well? :scrutiny:

I think I hate you.:neener:

Keep up the good work.

[Black Toe Knives]

Don't be scared of Damascus. I have worked with 1095, 0-1 and now exclusively Damascus. It is easy to heat treat, a jewel to cut and grind and incredible strong.
A billet cost around 100.00 you can get 6 knifes out of it. So the cost is not much more than 0-1. Well not if you are getting it free. Lucky dog! LOL

[Fergy35]

Well the truth of the matter is, we do business with them. They do some machining work for us when our customer need that sort of thing. So I think it was a little "thanks for the work" tip. I had fully intended to pay for it, but whats that saying about a gift horse? I don't expect it to be a reoccurring thing though.

[7X57chilmau]

Fergy,

THat is, as all the others have said, an outstanding first (second) effort! Beautifully made!

Another easily available and easily worked alloy (especially if you decide to do more forging) is 5160, also called OCS (Old Chevy Spring). I forge only this and 1095, and they work very similarly. Decent results are achieved by HT'ing 5160 just like 1095, but leaving the temper 1 shade or so lighter for the spring steel for similar edge holding.

I've had good results using both coil and leaf springs as stock for my forgeings. It's free at any old car rotting in the woods. Perfect material for practicing. and makes knives that will take and hold a razor edge. I don't do stock removal so cannot comment on its suitability for that purpose.

As to tools for knife making, you don't need much. I've gotten along for some years now making mine (admittedly crude) using only a charcoal forge, anvil (first 2 years this was a 12" RR track section), a couple hammers, an angle grinder, a 6" bench grinder and some sandpaper and files. Not having fancy tools is more excuse than reason. Many of my knives used only the forge, hammer and anvil and the bench grinder (for refining the blade shape only, ie. grinding the spine and belly profiles).

Watch out, it's a mighty addictive hobby.

J :)

[hso]

OCS is good stuff, but OVS and OMS tends to have more consistency.;)

Still, you can't bead free O-1.

[7X57chilmau]

That's true!

[Fergy35]

OK, finally figured out how to reset the image sizes on Photobucket. Here are some bigger pictures so it is easier to see.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh76/Fergy35/1st%20Knife/IMG_6464.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh76/Fergy35/1st%20Knife/IMG_6467.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh76/Fergy35/1st%20Knife/IMG_6470r-1.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh76/Fergy35/1st%20Knife/IMG_6474r-1.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh76/Fergy35/1st%20Knife/IMG_6478r-1.jpg

[bikerdoc]

I am overwhelmed by the attention to detail. I keep studying the pictures and see some real craftsmaship. Real nice.

[JShirley]

Beautiful knife, and OUTSTANDING very early effort! Thanks for sharing. :)

John