What is the best muzzle crown?


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P.B.Walsh
September 15, 2009, 11:50 PM
Hello, me again!! :)

I am getting my barrel cut in the very near future and I would like opinions on muzzle crowns.

This is for a hunting/target rifle. During hunting season (11/10/09!!!:)) it sees a good deal of knocking around, I do avoid (to the best of my abillity) touching the muzzle, so I'd like something to protect my bore.

If it matters, this is for a .308, 20x.750" barrel (the Remington 700 SPS-V barrel cut down)

Any suggestions, thanks,
P.B.Walsh

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FlyinBryan
September 16, 2009, 12:14 AM
maybe a nice 11 degree recessed target crown?

jpwilly
September 16, 2009, 12:28 AM
Yes, a recessed target crown seems to work best:

http://www.ct-precision.com/images/1022_crown.jpg

P.B.Walsh
September 16, 2009, 12:29 AM
What's the difference in the angle of crowns?

justashooter in pa
September 16, 2009, 12:54 AM
the 11 degree pitch is standard, whether recessed or not. it is optimal in terms of reduction of instability in flight caused by gas blow by at the moment of the bullet's exit from the muzzle.

Maverick223
September 16, 2009, 02:09 AM
FB got it right. The 11* target is less susceptible to damage than most other crowns because it shields the sensitive area near the bore. You will be hard pressed to find one crown that will noticeably outperform another (if it is square, and properly machined), but other crowns are more easily damaged. :)

P.B.Walsh
September 16, 2009, 08:09 AM
Ok, 11* recesed it is then!! :)

Thanks to all,
P.B.Walsh

rangerruck
September 16, 2009, 11:07 AM
I don't know why, but most 'smiths agree on the 11 degrees.

Mr_Pale_Horse
September 16, 2009, 11:30 AM
I wonder if 11 is optimal for boattail bullets in particalur? You can still get 45, 60 and 90 crowning cutters. I wonder if square base bullets like a different angle?

FlyinBryan
September 16, 2009, 07:50 PM
I wonder if 11 is optimal for boattail bullets in particalur?

in my opinion its not too specific on different bullet performance.

its an angle that lends itself well to being a very durable release point.

if im not mistaken, there is an 11 degree target crown, and then there is an 11 degree recessed target crown like the one in jp's pic, which i much prefer for obvious reasons

P.B.Walsh
September 16, 2009, 07:54 PM
What does a 90* crown look like?

FlyinBryan
September 16, 2009, 07:58 PM
the 11 degree pitch is standard, whether recessed or not. it is optimal in terms of reduction of instability in flight caused by gas blow by at the moment of the bullet's exit from the muzzle.

yes. this.

FlyinBryan
September 16, 2009, 08:07 PM
that would be if it were cut perfectly flat, as if to cut it straight through on a bandsaw (which wouldnt be perfectly flat, but you get the idea.

P.B.Walsh
September 16, 2009, 08:36 PM
Oh ok, that makes sense. :)

I don't know if I will be able to cut and crown this hunting season, the 'smith said that it would be awhile before I would get it back, and the other shop is asking $140!! :banghead:

Thanks to all,
P.B.Walsh

plumbernater
September 16, 2009, 08:47 PM
I dont know about best crown. But if you have no crown . a round head bolt , check head to be alittle bigger than bore size. put bolt in drill on slow speed and some compound and make your own crown. It works . Seen Larry Potterfield from Midway USA do it for a do it your self video.

P.B.Walsh
September 16, 2009, 08:50 PM
yea.., I don't have any power tools..

Maverick223
September 16, 2009, 09:27 PM
I wouldn't try to do it myself (and I have a pretty decent selection of tools), wait on the lesser priced smith...it should cost no more than $80.00USD to cut and crown. :)

FlyinBryan
September 16, 2009, 09:36 PM
what mav said. within 5 dollars of what ive seen

Maverick223
September 16, 2009, 09:49 PM
what mav said. within 5 dollars of what ive seenLet me guess...$75.00...that is what my smith charges. BTW...PM is inbound. :)

dubbleA
September 16, 2009, 10:41 PM
$75, $80, $140 for a cut and crown :what: really? In the wrong business I guess .....I am blessed with having a lathe and milling machine. It takes about 5 minutes to dial in a barrel and part it / face it off to whatever degree, 11 is common. It takes another couple of minutes to lap the final cut with compound and a brass ball. I will burnish it until I can run a Q tip in the bore without it snagging. Not a smith but this works for me.

Bart B.
September 16, 2009, 11:05 PM
Tests with several rifles in the early '60's showed an 11 degree "face" (from the groove diameter out to the edge produced the best accuracy. The "crown" is how the front edge of the rifling's finished, a brass ball charged with fine lapping compound does great and just lap enough to smooth out the rough edges from facing the barrel.

browningguy
September 16, 2009, 11:47 PM
A standard 11 degree recessed target crown works well for all uses and is easy for a gunsmith to cut. I have several rifles with the older style rounded crown which seems to me easier to ding while in the woods.

FlyinBryan
September 17, 2009, 12:22 AM
Let me guess...$75.00

yup. actually, 75 dollars is his min charge for anything, and he was nice enough to say that that since he could crown it AND hand lap the bore for the minimum 75 bux.

i jokingly said "wait a second here, are you trying to sneak extra work in for free on this deal?"

when i picked it up he had crowned it beautifully, hand lapped the bore like it was his own baby, AND replaced a questionable extractor.

the charge was 75 dollars with the new extractor thrown in for free.

Maverick223
September 17, 2009, 12:28 AM
Good deal FB...did you receive my PM?

:)

P.B.Walsh
September 17, 2009, 12:43 AM
Yes, I could have it done for $45-$85 but he said that it would "be a while"..

jpwilly
September 17, 2009, 12:47 AM
yea.., I don't have any power tools..

Hint...Harbor Freight!

Maverick223
September 17, 2009, 12:58 AM
Hint...Harbor Freight!Would cost more...and I believe the only tools that they have that are worth buying are specialty (expensive and unlikely to use more than a couple times) and air tools...which are still of dubious (marginal at best) quality IMO. That said, everyone (to include women, children, and primitive screwheads) needs to have basic hand tools. A wise man (Walt Kowalski played by Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino) said: Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone. :)

jpwilly
September 17, 2009, 01:11 AM
^^^ I've gotten lots of great stuff there but yes you have to step over some crap to find the good stuff.

Maverick223
September 17, 2009, 01:18 AM
I can say that they are the cheapest venue in town to purchase Goodyear Air Hoses...which are simply the best (particularly the red rubber version)...and they do have great deals...so perhaps I was a bit hard on them. Also the majority of their tools also have a lifetime guarantee, though the replacement is not likely to be of any better quality. :)

zxcvbob
September 17, 2009, 01:30 AM
A brass round-head machine screw and JB Bore Paste, and an electric drill. If the existing crown is *really* bad (like you just hacksawed the barrel and did a bad job of it) maybe use Clover valve grinding compound instead of JB.

dubbleA
September 17, 2009, 02:07 AM
If the existing crown is *really* bad (like you just hacksawed the barrel and did a bad job of it) maybe use Clover valve grinding compound instead of JB.


All the valve grinding compound in the world isnt going to help "Bubba" out with a hacksaw job.:uhoh:

The purpose of the crown is to protect the end of the bore(lands and grooves) from defects/dings. That's why they are recessed/counterbored or concaved.
The ideal crown will have it's face exactly 90 degrees to the bore and be burr free and as smooth as possible. This enables the bullet and it's gases to exit as evenly as possible. That is not obtainable with a hacksaw, at least IMHO it's not.

PTK
September 17, 2009, 02:09 AM
If you're hunting, have a hunting crown put on. If you're target shooting, have a target crown. Don't try to have a "do-it-all" crown for a target/hunting/plinking/rabbit/big game rifle. ;)

The ideal crown will have it's face exactly 90 degrees to the bore and be burr free and as smooth as possible. This enables the bullet and it's gases to exit as evenly as possible.

I've never found that to be the case. My preferred target crown is an 11deg recessed, with about the .100" outside diameter of the muzzle not crowned. Other good crowns are simple polished hunter crowns (think everything even, but "melted", basically we just round everything over a bit then polish - REALLY hard to hurt the rifling with that) and full 11deg crowns (no recessing)

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