HP ammo is illegal in NJ?


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627PCFan
September 16, 2009, 08:36 AM
" A U.S. judge has denied bail to a white supremacist blogger and Internet radio host accused of threatening to kill three federal judges in Chicago who refused to overturn local bans on handguns.

U.S. Magistrate Michael Shipp said Hal Turner, 46, of North Bergen, N.J., is a danger to the community and ordered him transferred to Illinois, the AP writes. The FBI arrested Turner, a former U.S. Marine, yesterday at his home.

At today's court hearing, federal prosecutors revealed that agents found 200 rounds of ammunition, including 150 hollow-point bullets, which are especially lethal and illegal, The Jersey Journal reports."

Full article here (http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2009/06/no-bail-for-supremacist-held-for-threats-to-judges.html?obref=obnetwork)

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Since when were hollow-point bullets illegal? Is this a local law? I had never heard of a such a thing

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Steve Marshall
September 16, 2009, 08:40 AM
Possession of hollowpoint bullets is a felony in New Jersey.

9mm+
September 16, 2009, 08:55 AM
NJ has a thing about JHP's...as Steve stated, they're illegal there. They would prefer you own non-deforming rounds that overpenetrate and ricochet instead.

lead-inspector
September 16, 2009, 08:56 AM
It is legal to possess HP rounds in NJ. JUST don't USE them.

Steve

edSky
September 16, 2009, 08:57 AM
Well, this settles the .45/9mm debate. The .45 FMJ is surely not "especially lethal" according to New Jersey law.

Something smells fishy in this case, as the man alleged he was an operative at one time, whose job it was to agitate by doing exactly what he is accused of doing now.

rbernie
September 16, 2009, 09:04 AM
Posts that do not address the ammunition issue have no place in this thread and will be deleted. Please make a special effort to avoid the tittilation of the whole 'white supremacist/blogger threatening to kill Federal judges' angle, because it has no place here....

Just an FYI..... ;)

eatont9999
September 16, 2009, 09:13 AM
HP rounds are "especially lethal," huh? I guess if you actually hit your target, then in most cases the round will destroy more tissue. I thought that was kinda the general idea: kill what you are shooting at... NJ is messed up just like MA and CA when it comes to gun laws.

9mm+
September 16, 2009, 09:17 AM
I briefly glimpsed through the NJ statute on JHP ammo and it states that it can be used under certain hunting/range conditions provided that you meet the criteria with NJSP. More convolution at work here...my head started to spin reading through the legal mess NJ legislators put together... :barf:

rbernie
September 16, 2009, 09:24 AM
http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_hollow.html

HGUNHNTR
September 16, 2009, 09:28 AM
WRONG WRONG WRONG

Hollowpoint ammunition is NOT illegal in NJ. It is illegal to drive around with it in your car, but not illegal to possess. You can drive fromt he store where you purchased it to you home. You may then engage in legal activities pertaining to hunting fishing and camping per Section 2C subsection F of the firearms code.

It is legal to shoot, in fact the rediculousness of NJ law makes for a rather humorous example: Lets say you lawfully possess some JHP's for your 9mm. An intruder breaks into your house and you shoot him. Now He can be charged with unlawful possession of HP ammunition under NJ law.

Also it is the bullet itself that is illegal to posses outside of the home or NJ approved activity, SO if you have one of those dummy keychains with a HP bullet in it, you can face 1.5 years in federal prison, and a $10,000 fine.

My experience with this law: While living in NJ I was falsely arrested for possessing HP ammo in Newark at the airport. I was lawfully transporting it as I was going to Nebraska deer hunting. The authorities did not understand the uber confusing NJ firearms laws and decided to just arrest me and let the courts sort it our. Gotta love New Jersey.:mad:

Superlite27
September 16, 2009, 09:41 AM
This whole idea of "deadly hollow point bullets" completely flabbergasts me.

Like getting shot with FMJ's is supposed to tickle and make one feel happy.

"Good thing the victim shot that rapist five times in the chest with FMJ's. If she would have used those evil hollow points, she might have injured him!"

9mm+
September 16, 2009, 09:51 AM
The authorities did not understand the uber confusing NJ firearms laws and decided to just arrest me and let the courts sort it our. Gotta love New Jersey.

Per my earlier post, I had to lie down after reading the statutes since my head was spinning. If I lived in NJ, I would forego the JHP's altogether and simply buy FMJ's and practice shot placement like crazy (well, we should all practice more anyway... :) ). I wouldn't want to risk some arcane law biting me in the backside simply because I might have had the wrong ammunition loaded and it wasn't a full moon on the second Tuesday of the month.

This NJ hollow point law smacks of Black Talon hysteria and hopefully it will get repealed. Personally, I feel that the law should state that ALL defensive ammunition be JHP's for the safety of others. The mitigation of over-penetration risk makes it safer all around.

jimmyraythomason
September 16, 2009, 10:13 AM
While I haven't scrutinized every post here,it seems that the only option is FMJ since JHP bullets are a no-no. My question is ,why not JSP? Would that not settle the power vs.legality question?

Tinpig
September 16, 2009, 10:33 AM
NJ is messed up just like MA and CA when it comes to gun laws.

However, HP ammo is legal to buy, own, shoot, and for concealed-carry in Massachusetts.

Tinpig

kdstrick
September 16, 2009, 11:04 AM
The sillyness of some laws never ceases to amaze me.

Something to think about:

Since the legislators have concluded, via their legislation, that hollowpoints are 'especially lethal'... Could it be a liability issue if a LEO shoots a BG with a hollow point bullet? After all, such ammo is especially deadly... the State admits this and for such reason restricts its ownership.

Given that the State's LEO's carry hollow points; Couldn't a savvy lawyer, following a shooting of a BG by a LEO, turn the tables on the state and file suit, stating the the State, via the use of this (more) deadly ammunition was attempting to be judge, jury, and executioner, thereby depriving the BG of his due process?

Seems like the State may be backing itself into a corner with such a foolish law. It is OK for the State to use this, but not citizens...

As much as I'm against BS lawsuits, it would be funny to see the State get burned. :D

9mm+
September 16, 2009, 11:38 AM
Seems like the State may be backing itself into a corner with such a foolish law.

And what about the scenario when a citizen defends himself and puts an FMJ through the intruder and an innocent bystander? It could be argued that the JHP might have prevented this. The only people who like this kind of garbage are lawyers.

Maelstrom
September 16, 2009, 11:45 AM
This appears on its face to be a blatantly 1st Amendment case.

Internet radio talk host, saying things the government doesn't like. I'd swear it was EXACTLY why the 1A was put into place.

It's only made all the more ironic in the fact that he's quoting one of the guys who put the Constitution in place.

Justin
September 16, 2009, 12:04 PM
Threatening to kill someone is not covered under the 1st amendment, especially if you have the means to follow through.

This entire thread has gone stupid.

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