[Das Jaeger]

Recently in a thread by alias "THEWALL" , it got me thinkin about you all that have no experience in cap and ball guns and your desire to attain the best gun for the buck depending on what your desires for the gun are . I did not want to steal his thunder on his post of the new gun so started this one . While I am extremely happy for him to have gotten his new Pietta 1858 NA and it has a good trigger pull , at least acceptable obviously , it made me think of the rest of you folks that are looking at getting new guns , especailly newbees .
If your intention is shooting CASS or any competion or fine target work , forget about out of the box Piettas , especailly the 58 Army .
If you want a good solid well built gun that you can drop out of a pick-up truck and it will still run , then the Pietta is a great choice . Same holds true with Uberti for dropping out of pick-up , but the trigger pull will still be exceptional too :D
BUT !!!!!! Don't expect to shoot well with the stock trigger in competion or at targets , it aint happenin with Pietta . On the rare exception , and I mean VERY rare , the trigger will be acceptable at best for that kind of work .
Yes the prices are good for the Pietta , especailly on sale, but don't expect a Uberti quailty trigger or finish on your gun , or you'll be HIGHLY disappointed . I have allot of Piettas , and I mean allot , none of them were excellent triggers out of the box , none . One is really good stock , but excellent like Uberti , not even close . Even my $800 LeMats are not excellent triggers , they are very very crisp and nice , but my standard untouched Ubertis are better .

This is in now way a plug for Uberti , becasue you pay way more for Uberti , way more . But for serious shooting , I would seriously look at a Uberti or Ruger for your choices before settling on something that might get you buy and is cheaply priced . You get what you pay for ! Unless your willing to spend more money on gunsmithing or able to do some minor trigger upgrades or work yourself , save your headache if your getting into serious work with these guns and buy a Uberti first , or Ruger .

That being said the Piettas are fine guns too, just not as refined , especially in fit and finish . They are comming along , but my Ubertis are Caddilacs compaired to my Chevy Nova Piettas . Some of the high end Piettas are really well finished but they also cost $600 and $800 respectively . Once again you get what you pay for . Remember that !

This is Uberti , and you can plainly see for the other $100 over Piettas same gun , it is refined inside and out , and no silly writing on it , bonus . :D

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/5150kelly/100_0239.jpg

Buyer beware is my point , Don't expect the Taj Mahal when buying the Outhouse . :D

Das Jaeger

[Cosmoline]

Thanks for that heads up!

[Ratdog68]

Yum !! Looks as tasty as a lollipop !!

[arcticap]

What about the difference in the size of the grips?
Do the Piettas still have the larger stock grips or has Uberti enlarged theirs?

I know that Uberti has switched to forged frames if that matters to some.

The Piettas may have tighter bores, but admittedly there's no way to know the quality of every gun made and sold by both companies.
Some Uberti folks might be surprised to hear about just how nice some of the Pietta triggers can be right out of the box.
Depending on which Uberti or Pietta box is chosen for shipment, price is not always the determining factor of quality.
There's been plenty of examples of quality problems with individual guns from both companies.
Even Ruger & Pedersoli has their share of lemons.
And don't forget about Euroarms guns.
Some folks think that they're the best with their chamfered chamber mouths.:)

[Das Jaeger]

from buying a Pietta though, that isn't my intention . :banghead:
I just want people to be aware of the facts , as "I" see them . :D
I have the same amount of Piettas as Ubertis if that tells ya anything too . :D
Neither company makes the same guns , and Pietta far exceeds the FUN GUNS than Uberti does . Uberti is all about Histerically correct moreso than Pietta is all , Pietta makes some realy fine guns too , that in Finish exceed Uberti by far except from the Custom shop, the Lemat and the Old Silver are two of them . But the Price !
And Uberti don't make either of those , so you have to buy what you want then Modifiy them to run like you need them to run depending on what your shooting Sport is .
I mean just look at this Old Silver Model of Piettas . They are in excess of $550 now, if you can even find one , but they are truly fine and good triggers :D ..But boy is this ever a fine lookin gun , dont matter who made it either, tis just the appitomy of fine craftsmenship from Italy .


http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/5150kelly/100_0616.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/5150kelly/100_0619.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/5150kelly/100_0618.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/5150kelly/100_0615.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/5150kelly/100_0335-1.jpg

And then there is the $200 guns and $200 trigger pulls :D

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/5150kelly/100_0447.jpg

Nuff said , and no problem for the headsup Cosmo ...
Oh yeh Articap , the Euroarms are fine too , better than Uberti or Pietta but I only have two examples , both fine out of the box though :D
Reguardless , Pietta has MANY more lemons than Uberti in my experience .
And yes, Piettas are the Biggest guns .

Jaeger :D

[hogshead]

Which one is easiest to fit with conversion cyl,or is their any difference. Do you recomend stainless and can I use it in CA? I shot my first bp revolver today a brass framed no name. Shot surprisingly well. I got it for 20 bucks and have been waiting for balls to arrive. I am looking to start mounted CA in spring and have to have another SA 45 lc . Thought I would buy a BP revolver and conversion cly I know its not cheaper but I really like to touch of bp and see their eyes if you know what I mean. Sorry about so many questions.

[Das Jaeger]

is a drop in fit for Civil War Era style R and D cylinders . I have no experience from Kirsts and cant comment .
I have a few and never had a problem with any problems with running for either brand gun ?
I dont shoot CASS , SS ? Dont know ?

No questions are stupid, the ones unasked are though :D
Nice price on the gun you got , jeeeeez !

Jaeger

[fyrfyter43]

I'm not one to buy a bunch of guns, mainly 'cause I'll never find time to shoot 'em all. I'd rather have a couple of top-quality guns than a bunch of lower-quality guns. Obviously, I'd rather spend the extra money for quality. My first (and only, so far) C&B is an Uberti 1860 from Taylor's (bought through Dixon's). And my next one will be an Uberti Walker from Cimarron. Those may very well be the only 2 C&Bs I ever own, but I know they will last me a lifetime. And believe me, I sure don't baby my guns. I bought the 1860 on 7/3 and put more than 200 balls through it before I went in the hospital on 8/6. If the rain holds off, I might take it out again tomorrow for the first time since my hospitalization.

[hogshead]

Have to point it straight down to rotate cyl . Spring gone that engages cyl rotating device [crd for short lol] Little rusty and rough had to close my eyes first shot but it held together.

[Das Jaeger]

Dixie Gun Works . :D

jaeger

[hogshead]

Anything else gonna come flying out when I take it down.

[Das Jaeger]

nothing can come flying out my friend , hee hee hee :D
Easy to work on gun there . Nothing flies out .

jaeger

[Ratdog68]

Have to point it straight down to rotate cyl . Spring gone that engages cyl rotating device [crd for short lol] Little rusty and rough had to close my eyes first shot but it held together.
Hmmmm... I'll bet you find it's never been taken fully apart and cleaned. Am I smellin' a fouled bolt/trigger spring m'be?

Congrats on the find !!

[Das Jaeger]

you learn how to speak Revolver EAZZZZE !
Your comming right along Grasshopper :D
And you actualy sound like you know what your talking about , my specailty :D
Yup , sounds broke , I is covering my basis this way :neener:

Jaeger

[Ratdog68]

Homie's got good toodlin' types 'round here to guides me progress'. :D Amazing how jumpin' in to investigate and such will change your perspective and help ya to mentally visualize stuffs later on down the road. :D

[Ratdog68]

Love that Ol' Silver !!!! What a piece of eye candy that puppy is !!!

[arcticap]

Hogshead,
Taylors lists an Uberti 1858 Conversion pistol and the ad states that it allows "for easy transition from black powder to centerfire cartridges".

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/cfRemingtonConversion.tpl

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/images2/1000RemingtonConversion.jpg

1858 Remington Conversion
These versatile firearms allow for easy transition from black powder to centerfire cartridges. The original frames were dovetailed to allow the ejector assembly to slide into place. The loading lever screw, passing through from the left side of the frame, secured the ejector assembly. A small notch was cut into the loading lever to allow a rest for the "L" shaped tip of the ejector rod.


A THR member reported buying one only to learn that the frame was too large for the standard Uberti black powder cylinder to fit.
He complained that he ended up having to sell it off.
I don't know if it's really designed to shoot percussion or not. Maybe the advertisement is misleading, or maybe they have come out with a percussion cylinder for it, or maybe the ad is only referring to shooting black powder cartridges.
If you call and ask they can tell you if the percussion cylinder can be fitted to it or not.
If not, they sell conversion cylinders for most all of their other Uberti & Pietta models and can fit one to which ever model that you'd like to buy.

Here's post #11 from the thread about that special Uberti 1858 conversion model pistol:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=438508&highlight=taylor+conversion

I just sold a Taylors New Model Army Conversion with a 5 1/2" in .45. It shot really well and POA. It will not accept a uberti Reminton cylinder as they show in the adds. At first they (Uberti) said they came with them, but it never happened as far as I know. The cylinder is bigger O.D. to accept the .45 casings. I sold mine to get a Cimarron 7th Cav model.

The only complaint with a uberti to a Pietta, and I have both, is the uberti smacks my middle knuckle. So I started shooting 45 schofields in the conversion and it wasn't a problem.

[Das Jaeger]

too if ya want :D
It's dream cake Ratboy68 . Esepcailly with conversion cylinder, smooth pop gun . :D
This is one of them that had a decent trigger out of the box . But I still honed and moly'd it . :D
I would love to have like 100 of them ? All for me ! I am serious ,t heya re very cool to look at and shoot, the engraving up close and personal is TOP notch .
It's mostly Photo Engraved and they Old Silver frame is nice like Perdersoli does their Coin finish , very pretty .
Hell , you can shoot any of them you want for that matter .

Jaeger

[Ratdog68]

We'll have to shoot that one and the pimp gun on the same outing !!! I'm lookin' forward to finding out whether mine are nice pulls... or how much it'll take to make 'em nice.

[hogshead]

Sorry got to reading the ear protection in hd sit post. Cant believe that post is still here. I know for sure I want to be able to shoot cap and ball, and paint can at 25 yard accuracy suits me fine for the cap and ball. Looking to go cheap proably unless you convince me otherwise. I know you cant use con cyl in a brass frame do you think stainless is worth the extra $

[Das Jaeger]

and crisp let-off , equals a good pull , prefereably around 3 pounds for basic work , target I like um at about 2 or I can deal with even less . My Olympic TeN MEter stuff is very light , look at it wrong and it will go off . :D
Pietta is much better suited for newbee people . Uberti can be scarey for most people actually, they do a fine job on them , no cocking with your finger on the trigger, no no no , bad idea on Uberti , bad idea anywayz , but youz got to be careful .

Jaeger

[Das Jaeger]

if you don't clean your guns much ?
And if you like that look mostly is all .
Its worth it if its worth it to you . I haven't found it to clean easier if thats waht you want to know ? But it won't rust as bad either . I dont; use water to clean my guns though and strip them if I hunt in the rain, so it don't matter to me. I prefer a blued gun personally Hogshead.

Jaeger

[hogshead]

Really dont like the stainless on c@b all that good, just read it was easier to clean. Dont use water?

[JamesKelly]

Balanced discussion, Jaeger.

[Das Jaeger]

is what I use , full strength, lots of patches, never water, water and metal don't mix . JMHO
Nickel guns are easier to clean , not SS . Factoid . :D

jaeger

[Das Jaeger]

Well then , I better stop that , how are ya ? :D

Yeh , good thread , very imformative , even for me , and I am meeting people , bonus !

Jaeger

PS. Basiclly your saying I am calm tonight :neener:

[JamesKelly]

Ich auch.

[hogshead]

Thanks gonna check Cabellas see if they are still having that sale .Then the bank account. Just got a load from midway today. Trying to pull the U.S. out of the recession single hande.lol

[Das Jaeger]

single handed my butt . :D
I too have pulled the economy out of its state of confusion this year and last , good grief .
Problem is people were so scared not many people would spend money , the absolute worst thing you can do is not spend money in a bad economy . :banghead:
Nobody won on this resession except the people that caused it . It's called fear and panic and greed , the three contributors to ruing the nation . All caused by very few greedy people whom knew they could makea buck from fear and panic .
Well hopefuly you got enough money left to buy a new toy , any toy :D

Jaeger



.

[Ratdog68]

LOL I did my fair share of keepin' the world "green". :D

[hogshead]

Funds are low debts are high, want to laugh but have to cry blah blah blah gonna have to wait on the 1858. seems like a good deal though 189 and 5 shipping. Had a 20 coupon on over 150 that went dead yesterday. Proably a good thing though. Old man winter is knocking at the door and its hard to chew cold steel.

[Das Jaeger]

Popeye ate cold steel , turned it into Nails if I remember the Cartoon right . I think it was Horseshoes he was eatin . :D
Hopefully you got work and can get one at some point , it is a good deal on the 58 even when there not on sale :D ............Very stout workhorse of a gun there . Now if Popeye wouda had one of them , Bluto would have never been a problem .

Later , Jaeger

[hogshead]

My wife came through on the 58. See my birthday is 9 25 so worked out good all the way around.She even called cabellas got them to honor the coupon $186.94 shipped. I wont trade off guns people give me so I guess Il have it for a while. Now I got to learn how to cast my own bullets and work up some shot loads. Um hint hint

[Ratdog68]

She done ya good !!! Congrats !

[MCgunner]

So, I guess ASM is junk? LOL I have a little cheap brass .31 Rem with an ASM stamp, sold/imported by CVA. Now, I didn't like the bead sight in it, it ain't real accurate at 25 yards, kinda a handshake range gun, but the little toot is pretty amazingly tight and timed absolutely perfect. I've seen new Smith and Wessons that didn't time as well nor were as tight. I only gave 60 bucks for it about 15 years ago from a Gander Mountain catalog sale. I even have a mold for it, but usually just cut open a buckshot shell when I get the urge to shoot it, LOL.

[hogshead]

Had my first chain fire ,luckily it was the second to last round. Tried to make some shot shells using cotton patches with crisco .Seems the first few shots dislodge the others one fell all the way out .Maybe I used to big of shot cut it out of a shotgun shell with writing wore off but it was proably 4 or 5 shot. Wanted to throw the gun but was afraid too. Think I may need some better patches and smaller shot.On the bright side threw a good pattern at 10 yards.

[zimmerstutzen]

Instead of shot, get an appropriate size wad punch and punch out layers of sheet lead and pack em in with a piece of paper between between each disc. Imagine a half dozen little lead frisbies wildly flittering down range.
Imagine the damage to an assailant.

What did legend say Pat Garret used on the kid?,,,,,, ten thin dimes from each barrel.

[hogshead]

Kinda wanted a snake load ,how would they pattern do you think?

[mykeal]

Shooting shot from rifled bores produces donut shaped patterns that become ineffective beyond 10 yards.

[hogshead]

Thats fine with me its only about 2 yards from my horse to the ground.But I really dont think we could either one hanle a chain fire.

[Das Jaeger]

was what I described to use out of the Lemat too that Zimmerstutzen is talking about . Rifled barrel or not out of a Revolver, I would not be standing in front of me at 20 yards , you'll die for sure . Your gonna get hit somewhere , and I woudln't care how slow you go :D
If your gonna use shot , use a cornmeal or cream of wheat to buffer the shot charges and hold them together better , then a heavy tight wad , rammed hard , greased over, you'll be good to go . So will your rattlers .

Jaeger

[hogshead]

Greenhorn here 1. powder 2. wad 3. shot, cream of wheat mixed together 4.wad 5.crisco that right ? Is there something I can make my own wads out of? I think I read it on here but the search engine dosnt seem to be working .sorry bout all the questions if ur ever in my neck of the woods I l buy you a beer.

[Das Jaeger]

sounds about right . Some hobby stores carry thick felt , get a punch at Tandy Leather or on the net , punch your own wads , saturate them in grease , not the one over the powder though .

I would make that an Ice Tea , I don't drink anymroe, wish I could , but I know better, for me . :D

Jaeger

[JamesKelly]

Hogshead--Look at the "Sticky", top of Blackpowder Shooting page. Gatefeo has a lot to say about wads, the sources of felt & of wad cutters.

[arcticap]

If your gonna use shot , use a cornmeal or cream of wheat to buffer the shot charges and hold them together better

I not so sure that using a filler is the way to go for revolver shot loads. The chambers don't hold very much shot to begin with, so adding a filler could reduce the amount of shot enough to render the load to be ineffective.

These instructions for making a revolver shot load were printed on an older package of Wonder Wads as quoted and posted by a THR member:


Per the instructions on the Ox-Yoke Wonder Wads Packaging Card:
1. Powder Charge
2. Wonder Wad
3. Shot Charge (I filled the chamber to just shy of the top)
4. Another Wonder Wad as an over-shot card

Thick juice carton waxboard or egg carton material may be alternative materials to make satisfactory wads with. But they need to be sized & rammed to hold tightly and more than 1 of each may be needed.

Placing a harder beeswax/lub mixture or petroleum jelly on top of the over shot cards may help to hold the shot loads in place during recoil.

[Das Jaeger]

made up with cornmeal or cream of wheat are only made up putting enough of cream of wheat or cornmeal to take up any of the room that the shot charge itself will leave gaps from normally, like on a shotgun shell . That is why they buffer some of them anyways , no dented balls , better patterns , and it packs dence this way . Your not adding anything to your lead load either, your just packing the substraite around it Articap . Get it ? Plus he is talking about a Horse to Ground charge too , were not shooting Trap and Skeet here with it at 30 yards :D ...A round balls worth of number #4's backed with 20 grains of powder will knock any Snakes pee pee in the dirt :D.
Heck even ten grains would be sufficient :D ......

Das Jaeger

[Ratdog68]

And then... there's the whole process of getting your steed acustomed to gunshots without phasin' 'em. :D

[Das Jaeger]

an Iron Horse , doesn't even flinch ! :D

Jaeger

[Ratdog68]

Having both... I definately trust my iron one more better. It definately does what it's told, every time. :D

[Das Jaeger]

Tennesse Walker mix when I was 19 , stubborn bazturd , would not budge if he did not want to , would stop on the road for a bubble gum wrapper if he chose , now matter how hard I bit his ear .
I traded him for a Morgan . Well mannered horses . :D
At least if your horse gets stupid you can eat um though , can't say that about my Norton :neener: ...Unless your Popeye ?

Jaeger

[Ratdog68]

LOL I unnerstan' !! I'm kickin' 'round a winter time leather project at some point... me thinks me needs a bag to hang over the saddle horn that has a built in holster for me "horse pistol". What better way to haul around a Walker? :D A buddy of mine has a book of old style bags/patterns. If I do... gonna have to go on the search for stamping tools that match the pattern of my saddle. If I can... wanna make in such a manner that it'll carry the Remmies too, if I so choose. Gonna have to do a little homework on that.

And, yup... all sorts of "monsters" out there on the trail ! "Tall grass waving in the wind" monsters, "mud puddle" monsters, "tarp flap" monsters... the list is endless !! LOL Gotta love them critters though. Once they trust ya on sumpin'... they'll do anything for ya along those lines.

[hogshead]

I fire off my horse all the time never flinch. I shot the cap n ball she turned around to look at me . I think if she could a spoke she'd a said ***. Maybe the smoke I dont know but she was fine after the first one. She's 11 years old kinda been there done that horse .The onle time she really got scaired was over a baby lamb woulnt hardly go by it . I finaly walked her right up to it and she was fine . She said she thought it was a baby horse eating dragon.lol Thanks for the advice I'l get a you glass of some real Southern Tea we put suger in it down here fwiw

[Das Jaeger]

Mcdonalds is selling a version of that now here :banghead:...I think they think they are onto something new or something ? Like they invented it ?
When I was visiting Dad one year when he lived around Shreveport LA. they don't serve water at restaraunts , its Sweet Tea or nuttin . :D .. I love the South !
Remember I was raised in Alabama :D

Horse eatin dragon , good one ! Funny critters horses .

Jaeger

[hogshead]

Well I cant tell you anything about sweet tea then. You ever go hunting down there, I got a bunch of friends go down there after Christmas say the rut is just starting. Anything to that? By the way I really like that mickey ds tea you can get a large for a buck down here proably there too. Kinda rough on the kidneys though.

[Das Jaeger]

I try to avoid Mcdonalds , bad for the Pipes . :D I frequent Popeyes , but they stopped serving Collard greens here , so I rezent going in there anymore unless I have to have some Chicken on the fly . :banghead: .. No collard greens , communists I say ! :fire:

Yes , I have hunted Louisiana , for birds not deer . I hunted the piss out of Bama though :D ...Couldn't say anything about LA's rutt , but wouldn't surprise me none . Being El' Ninyo going on lately , no surprise at all if the Rutt is later , warmer , you know ?

We make our own Sweet Tea here Hogshead , gall drinks it like water or Beer . Costs maybe $00.75 a gallon :D With Sugar :D

Jaeger

[hogshead]

Rogo got to go move horses then to church. Nice chating Il check in tonite Have a good day.

[Das Jaeger]

you take it eazy ! Take it twice if she lets ya ! :D
Happy Churchin .

Jaeger

[JamesKelly]

We have a lot of Arabs here in SE Michigan, not sure if theyr'e the same kind. I do like their food though. One pastry shop in Dearborn, Shatillas, is known even in the Mid-East for its wonderful concoctions, minimum 5000 calories each.

I do have a gun problem, with a Uberti 1860 Colt. I had a similar problem years ago with a Ruger, a.k.a. Rooger on this forum. Not Bill's fault. Had some reloads I was very happy with, my Oh my they did shoot flat in silhouette matches. Then my SS .357 Blackhawk froze up, could not get cylinder to rotate. Disassembled, unloaded. . . then I thought some more about just how I had loaded those rounds. Yeah. Dissassembled all the cartridges next. Thats about when I realized that handloading smokless ammunition might not be my forte. Gun has worked just fine ever since, with factory whatever.

Now for the Uberti. Loaded moderately, shot quite high at 25 yds. Which is the convenient distance for me to shoot on Holy Tuesday. A little nervous about controlling that Dremel to cut the hammer notch/sight deeper, so thought I'd modify POI by increasing the load, forget exactly what but in the high 20's of FFFg Swiss. POI got better but the gun froze up, pretty much, had to rotate the cylinder by hand. No, the balls were not interfering, nor were cap fragments this problem. Home in my shop I saw little burs on each ratchet. Don't think Mr. Uberti put them there. I think the hand dug into the ratchet from recoil of the max loads I was using. Removed burrs, thought about it some more & put Uberti away. Unless I change something seems to me the same thing would happen again.

Don't know what to change.

Meanwhile, my SS ROA is a pleasure to shoot. 35 gr loads no problem & the odd cap fragment that gets caught is only a minor nuisance.

Except.

Except, I do prefer the appearance of something more authentic, which for me is specifically an 1860 Army. If I can get it to shoot, I'd be inclined to doll it up with faux ivory grips as a Western gun. Heard too much from Grampa about the Civil War & effects on his Dad to be seriously enthused about the military stuff.

Anyone have similar problems with their Colt replica seizing up under heavy loads? (Remingtons have a different style ratchet, might not have same problem)

[hogshead]

Got my pietta 1858 today seems real tight after the Richland Arms. Shot great at 15 yards elevation wise but about 3 inches to the left. Not much I can do about windage is there? Really disappointing, very nice looking gun and I dont have to point it down to cock it.lol

[BHP FAN]

file the rear sight notch in the direction you want yer ball to fly.be carefull,though,a little fileing goes a long way.

[hogshead]

Best to file or send back and get target model.

[hogshead]

Where are you Des Jauguar?