quiet .223


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swiftguy
September 16, 2009, 11:12 PM
Hi everybody, I'm new here so I hope I can figure this out. I loaded 4 rounds .223 with 55gr fmj. that I got laying around and 4 grs. blue dot powder. It was really quiet and all four rounds made it out the barrel! But, 5 inch group and two landed sideways at 50 yards. I shot them out of a Ruger 77vt 26 in. barrel with a 1 in 12? twist, if I remember right. Any thoughts? Different powder, more powder, different bullet? Any help in tuning this load would be great.

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ole farmerbuck
September 16, 2009, 11:22 PM
Sorry but my only help would be to use h335 or blc-2 and make em hum!

ole farmerbuck
September 16, 2009, 11:23 PM
Oh yea....welcome.

Walkalong
September 16, 2009, 11:23 PM
More powder. They are not going fast enough to stabilize. There are folks who use Blue Dot for reduced loads in .223, but I don't know what amounts.

Search Blue Dot in rifle

Welcome to THR

Remo-99
September 16, 2009, 11:41 PM
Yep, they are not spinning fast enough to stabilize, by dropping the velocity right back it's also cutting back the RPM's.
Either increasing velocity or choosing a bullet with a shorter profile should do the trick.

I've used 40gr .22 magnum bullets in .223, loaded with small charges of pistol powders, which gave me fairly good accuracy 50-100yds, just the point of impact was several inches lower than full power loads.

They make for quiet small pest/vermin control, once the POI is known and also very inexpensive shooting.

billybob44
September 16, 2009, 11:51 PM
Yep, they are not spinning fast enough to stabilize, by dropping the velocity right back it's also cutting back the RPM's.
Either increasing velocity or choosing a bullet with a shorter profile should do the trick.

I've used 40gr .22 magnum bullets in .223, loaded with small charges of pistol powders, which gave me fairly good accuracy 50-100yds, just the point of impact was several inches lower than full power loads.

They make for quiet small pest/vermin control, once the POI is known and also very inexpensive shooting.
How did you aquire the .22Mag. bullets to load in the .223?? I hope you're not going to tell me you used a bullet puller??

counterclockwise
September 17, 2009, 12:13 AM
I'll bet those are so quiet you can chronograph those in your backyard or basement into a sand bucket without scaring the neighborhood dogs. Which reminds me, I think you should check the speed of those rounds. Are they coming out at a consistent speed? If not, you may be cruising for a bruising when you fire the second one on a squib. Like Walkalong alludes to, you may be out of gas before the bullet reaches the end.

Also, the case useable volume with the 55 fmj is 1.723 cc. At a blue dot density of 11.56 gr / cc the 4 gr only takes up 20% of the case volume. There are a few powders that are not position sensitive (powder in front, back, or bottom of case when fired). I do not know if blue dot is one of them.

Remo-99
September 17, 2009, 12:16 AM
How did you aquire the .22Mag. bullets to load in the .223?? I hope you're not going to tell me you used a bullet puller??

Nope, that would make the bullets rather expensive to load.
Now and then I come across winchester bulk .22mag bullets(projectiles only), on the cheap and grab a bunch, for the above stated purposes.

BTW, I was using H-Clays with mag primers and never had problems with igniting the small charges.

duck911
September 17, 2009, 12:36 AM
vI loaded 4 rounds .223 with 55gr fmj. that I got laying around and 4 grs. blue dot powder. It was really quiet and all four rounds made it out the barrel! But, 5 inch group and two landed sideways at 50 yards.

What you're doing is potentially dangerous. You risk getting a bullet stuck in the barrel and sending another one down the plugged pipe.

If I were you (and I'm not), I'd consider following some established recipes or at least hitting the net for some known Blue Dot loads for your .223...

--Duck911

444
September 17, 2009, 01:26 AM
I have played around quite a bit with loading 77 grain bullets (Sierra Match Kings) over Trailboss powder with the goal of keeping velocity as close to 1100 fps as I could get without any one of them going over that velocity. I did all the testing at ambient temperatures over 100 degrees F.
The load I ended up with was quite accurate and stable.
I was shooting them out of an AR15 (1:7 twist) with an AAC M4-2000 suppressor. These loads through a suppressor were VERY quiet.

I posted the information on another forum: http://www.silencertalk.com/
As I posted there: I have no idea if these loads are safe. I shot hundreds of them but I have no way to do any kind of pressure testing or anything other than shooting them over a chronograph. Note: If you compress Trailboss, things get squirrely. I didn't compress my 77 grain loads but later did testing with 100 grain bullets (still in .223) which resulted in compressing the powder. Wild velocity swings were the result. I found out later that you can't compress Trailboss.

Some of the major bullet and powder manufacturers publish subsonic load data. Every one of these published loads I have seen were for 55 grain bullets. I wanted to use a heavy bullet. It seems logical to me that if your velocity is limited, the only way to increase the "power" of the load was to increase the bullet weight.

As was mentioned previously, you are walking on thin ice by going down this road. I am not sure it is a good idea just trying loads without any basis at all from someone who knows what he is doing or access to sophisticated test equipment. You should call the powder manufacturer and discuss it with them. They can give you some valuable information and might save you from an accident.

Walkalong
September 17, 2009, 09:38 AM
There are a few powders that are not position sensitive (powder in front, back, or bottom of case when fired). I do not know if blue dot is one of them. Blue Dot can cause trouble if it does not fill the case well. I played with Blue Dot in .22 Hornet. With the powder back against the primer all was well, but the first shot with the powder forward against the bullet severely blew a primer.

700X worked very well for reduced loads in .22 Hornet and .222/.223.

steve4102
September 17, 2009, 10:28 AM
This is load data from Seafire "Mr Blue Dot". 223 Rem 55gr FMJ.
Understand this is not my data and I take no responsibility for it's use or misuse.


Winchester 55 grain FMJ

4 grs: 896 fps
5 grs: 1264 fps
6 grs: 1568 fps
7 grs: 1825 fps
8 grs: 1994 fps

9 grs: 2201 fps
10 grs: 2328 fps
11 grs: 2453 fps

12 grs: 2677 fps
13 grs: 2821 fps
14 grs: 2915 fps



One thing to be very careful of when messing around with fast pistol powders in a rifle case, DOUBLE CHARGE. If you just so happen to make the mistake of double charging your case with Blue Dot be prepared for a catastrophic failure and some serious damage to your firearm and your head face and hands.
Me, I gave up on the Blue Dot thing several years ago. I like my body parts right where they are and in good working order.

ants
September 17, 2009, 01:28 PM
Hodgdon and Lyman publish pistol-powder loads that you can use safely. Lots of unofficial web pages offer loads, but if safety is important I would use real published data.

Hodgdon's loads for Titegroup and Clays work great. Both are for fmj bullets. They don't cycle an autoloading rifle, but shoot straight and reliable.

Note that the Lyman loads are worked up for sized cast Lead bullets only, not jacketed, so they don't stick in the barrel. Be very careful.

Alliant used to publish a load for 2400 with 55g jacketed bullets, max was around 13 or 14 grains (don't quote me because I don't remember exactly!!) but it seems to have disappeared from the online Reloading Guide. It still remains for 218 Bee, 22 Hornet, and 221 Fireball, but those aren't 223 Rem.

Popgun loads are fun, but be smart and be careful out there.

444
September 17, 2009, 01:41 PM
A couple of the reasons I chose Trailboss for the loads I mentioned previously are because the powder fills the case. This elimiates two of the problems mentioned in this thread: you can't double charge the case and the powder is against the primer.

loadedround
September 17, 2009, 06:39 PM
Have you considered a 22lr conversion kit for your AR? They sell for around 150.00 or so and are much quieter than an AR15. There's a bonus also, they're fun to shoot and ammo is cheap also. Just my two cents worth. :)

Kernel
September 18, 2009, 11:04 PM
.223 Gopher Loads - James Calhoon

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/bee.php

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/tobee2.php

GMDR: 223 Rem Powder Weight /Velocity Data for the 46gr Win HP

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/add223rem46hp_dat.htm

sniper1259
September 20, 2009, 01:54 AM
ive been using 26 gr Win 748 under 55gr FMJ boat tails for years now, gives me 3100 fps in a 24 inch 1 in 14 twist barrel i had custom made for my AR 15 by Colt back in 1982.

havent keyholed one yet. the back blast is a bit much and had to have a blast deflector put on the nose of the barrel to keep it out of my face. (1.2 inch tube 7 inches long and hollow)

it can drive tacks clean thru the backing ... but its anything but quiet!!!
748 is a great powder for this round!!! meters well too

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