[280PLUS]

i was told once i could put this kind of stuff here, hopefully its still true?

2 shots of uss stennis with san diego fires providing the background light,,,

[280PLUS]

stennis...

of note,,,the navy has called in all its ships early to allow for the sailors to be with their families

some 800 sailors have voluteered and are directly involved with fighting the fires and relief efforts

m

[RocketMan]

Don't know if you can post them here or not.
But those are two, too cool pictures.

[morganm01]

Not to burst any bubbles....

I think those shots were taken sunday morning. The light is from the sun. At no time were there any fires (or ambient light from them) visible from the coastal part of San Diego. I even drove up to mount Soledad, about 3 miles from where this photo was taken, and looked out east and all I saw was smoke, not even a hint of an orange glow. Of course the visibility was about 1-Mile. My house is about 5 miles beyond the ship, I never saw any glow from the flames, and believe me I was looking!

[TechBrute]

Just so it's on topic, I'd like to point out how many guns there are on an aircraft carrier.

[glockten]

I'd like to point out how many guns there are on an aircraft carrier.

Mounted on the ship itself, only a few 20mm CIWS and .50 M2HBs, I think.

A far cry from the 8-inch guns on the Lexington and Saratoga.

[TechBrute]

Many small arms on board, many on the aircraft, SEALs in and out all the time with their toys, MPs' shotguns, M9s, etc.

[Mark Tyson]

Holy John Jacob Jingle-Heimer Schmidt! It looks like the end of the world over there! Good luck Arnold. At least you'll make sure they all burn to death before they can be killed by "assault weapons".

What kind of shotguns does the Navy use these days? I heard the Marines are using that new Benelli M4 or something.

[TechBrute]

I don't really know to tell you the truth. On a tiger cruise back in 1988, the armory of the Eisenhower (CVN 69) had a bunch of pumps. That's about all I knew about shotguns back then.

[Kharn]

Over the summer (while working on a naval base), Remington 870 pumps with synthetic furniture seemed to be the style of the day. Guess a back-water Test Pilot School and R&D base doesnt rate Mossberg 590A1s.

Kharn

[glockten]

TechBrute,

Do they keep M14s in carriers' armories?

[TechBrute]

I don't remember anything except the pump shotguns, M16s, and M9s. That was 15 years ago, and I was about 15 at the time, so I can't be relied upon for any sort of accurate info.

[UnknownSailor]

Was underway just a week ago, on USS George Washington. M-14s are available (drill team, throwing shot lines), as well as M4s. Shotguns and 9mm are abundant. I even saw an M203. Security runs around the ship armed at all times, mostly with Berettas, but one 2 man team has M4s.. M2HB .50 cal mounts manned when pulling in or pulling out. Pleasing thing to see, actually, compared to the way things were last time I was aboard ship.

[BryanP]

According to the source for this image -

http://www.sddt.com/PhotoLibrary/Military.cfm?ImageNumber=436

"As a U.S. Navy SH-60 Seahawk flies above, USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74) transits the San Diego channel, from Naval Air Station North Island, Calif., as it heads to sea under a cloud of smoke from nearby burning wildfires. Stennis is leaving port to conduct scheduled training exercises in the Southern California operating area. At least 10 fires had burned more than 280,000 acres and destroyed at least 850 homes by Sunday night. Smoke is also delaying flights into and out of area airports. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer's Mate Airman Mark Rebilas."

The light source isn't specified, whether it's the sunrise or the light of the blazes being diffused against the smoky background, the source just mentions the cloud of smoke.

[280PLUS]

i got these pix from 2 different sources by email, the second pic was captioned

Thursday October 30 12:12 PM

" An HH-60H Seahawk takes off from the fight deck of USS John C. Stennis as an SH-60F Seahawk prepares to land, under smoke filled skies from nearby San Diego firestorms. Reuters/U.S.Navy/Joshua Word"

The glow may be from sunrise, i don't know for sure, I guess it's been assumed by others and then myself to be the glow of the fires...

maybe i can backtrack it and find out,,,?

incidentally, if the stennis is leaving port again, its most likely because it had just pulled in to let off sailors affected by the fires.

thought i'd throw that in...



m

[c_yeager]

Out of curiosity does anyone know what kind of defensive (or offensive) weapon systems are on aircraft carriers? Excluding the obvious aircraft themselves of course.

[Orthonym]

and I believe they might have a few Sea Sparrow launchers, or something like that. And yes of course the ubiquitous .50 Brownings. (Wish I had one.)

BTW, the 8-inch guns were removed from Lex and Sara very early in '42. I don't think anyone ever imagined them duking it out with cruisers, even back in 1921. I imagine people thought that, because they were, well, C Vs, they needed cruiser guns. They were most surely the fastest ships the USN has ever owned, then or now. I think Lex did an honest 35 knots one time.

[Orthonym]

Should have written "fastest BIG ships".

[TechBrute]

I imagine people thought that, because they were, well, C Vs, they needed cruiser guns.

CV stands for Carrier Vessel. CVN stands for Carrier Vessel Nuclear.

[280PLUS]

a few 5" here and there?

[4v50 Gary]

The 8" guns on the '20-'30s era carriers were indeed for self defense against cruisers. It was envisioned that a carrier could always flee from a battleship (carriers of those days did about 30 knots and most battleships were only 21-24 knots) so their primary threat was from aircraft from other carriers or the sleek heavy cruiser (generally 33 knots). The Japanese Akagi and Kaga also had 8" guns for self defense.

[hksw]

I think those shots were taken sunday morning. The light is from the sun.

If the light in the background is the sun, then what is lighting up the carrier and helo from the front?

[Orthonym]

C stands for cruiser, as in CL = cruiser, light, CA= cruiser, attack, and CV= cruiser, volant (Latinism for flying, or aviating. People used to have good, classical educations back then). All HTA Navy squadron designations start with a V. LTA squdrns' identifiers started with Z for Zeppelin.

[TechBrute]

Assuming your knowledge is better than your tact, where do you get this information? An internet search for "cruiser, volant" turns up a bunch of Chrysler sites.

[280PLUS]

i think C is interchangeable for both carrier and cruiser

we (I) always thought CV meant carrier and for some reason the V meant flight, volant does make sense in that context,,,

where CVH meant "carrier, flight, helicopter"

and CG meant "Cruiser, Guided Missile"

its possible, but i am not sure that in the "old" days

CC meant cruiser as BB meant battleship as DD meant destroyer as FF meant fast frigates which used to be DE's meaning Destroyer Escorts

so in effect, when the first letter is a "C" , the second letter tells you whether it is a cruiser or a carrier

ok,,,now whats an LST?

or my personal favorite DDG,,,

oh, they ALL have guns in one form or another

we had on my ship m-16's m60's and .45's (of course) and during war time plenty of .50 BMG stations around the weather decks

then there was the 5 inchers fore and aft, the surface to air missles , the surface to sub surface nuclear tipped missles (anti sub), the torpedos and all guided by either radar or sonar

and the barbecued beef cubes could be pretty formidable too

saw them bring down many an old salt,,,

during our indoctrination on board we were told that our ship alone had more firepower than ALL, that's ALL the firepower unleashed in WWII combined,,,i assumed that it meant hiroshima and nagasaki were included

and you could bring personals on board but they had to be checked in with the gunners mates and held in the armory

CV's and CVN's even have detachments of marines on board, and they have guns,,,and they run the brig on board

woe be to a sailor held captive in a marine brig:what:
:D

note: what they call a destroyer today is the same size as a cruiser of my days (70's),,, it had a lot to do with the SALT treaties, they built large destroyers with limited arms capability but if the SHTF they could, overnight practically, drop big stuff into spaces specifically designed for this immediate upgrade, hence meeting the treaty requirements while giving us an edge,,,

effectively, overnight, destroyers would become cruisers,,,SURPRISE!!

gee, i wonder if the russians were on to this?

:rolleyes:

[buzz_knox]

CV=carrier, heavier than air craft.

The C might be derived from the carrier's early status as converted cruiser hulls, but the V was chosen to designate the fact that it carried heavier than air craft, given that lighter than air craft were still in widespread use at the time of its development.

Also, carriers remain among the fastest capital ships in service. Although official top speed remains classified, it's been reported that they can steam at 35+ knots.

[buzz_knox]

it had a lot to do with the SALT treaties, they built large destroyers with limited arms capability but if the SHTF they could, overnight practically, drop big stuff into spaces specifically designed for this immediate upgrade, hence meeting the treaty requirements while giving us an edge,,,

SALT stands for "Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty" and has no application to conventional arms. There was no limitation on weapons. The reason that modern American vessels don't have huge numbers of visible weapons was due to a change in philosophy. Electronics and coordination took the place of numbers of mounts, and vertical assault and air support eliminated the need for shore bombardment capabilities in the eyes of ship designers, and shore mounted anti-ship missiles made such bombardment hazardous. Shore bombardment is to be a consideration for the future DDGX class, as the Marines want something that can help pound beaches or in-land targets when air power can't cut it.

As for destroyers and cruisers, the distinction is now based on role rather than size. AEGIS cruisers are built on Spruance class destroyer hulls. The difference is that AEGIS ships are designed for anti-air work, and the Spruances is anti-submarine. So, despite having the same hull and roughly the same engineering systems, they've been optimized for different roles. That's changed with the Arleigh Burke class destroyers, which has a heavy emphasis on anti-air work with some ASW/surface action capability.

[280PLUS]

we were told that some treaty (thought it was SALT) limited armament but not size so we could build big ships (spruance) and arm them lightly and call them destroyers, then, if the SHTF they could be upgraded to cruiser strength

and that they had compartments that you could literally pop open and drop these armament in in very lttle time

course either that thinking has changed over the years or it was just a little scuttlebutt at the time.

i know now the last spruance i was on (to visit) was all about cruise missles

i don't know if they were always with the ship or added later in a refit, it would bee interesting to find out, USS Caron it was

and it was set to be decommisioned, which also may have changed

problem is now, the Nav has no ships smaller than what used to be cruisers and yes, close in shore fighting is no best suited for the larger platforms

i was on an adams class, famous for close in gun duels during nam days,,,

i dont know how they compare in size with arleigh burke size

[buzz_knox]

we were told that some treaty (thought it was SALT) limited armament but not size so we could build big ships (spruance) and arm them lightly and call them destroyers, then, if the SHTF they could be upgraded to cruiser strength

No problem. I understand about how things go.

As for spaces for upgrades, that was designed into nearly all surface vessels once the brass started seeing how fast technology changes. Adding to an already overloaded superstructure is a lot more difficult and expensive than just leaving some space in the superstructure to begin with.

i know now the last spruance i was on (to visit) was all about cruise missles
i don't know if they were always with the ship or added later in a refit, it would bee interesting to find out, USS Caron it was


"USS CARON was last homeported in Norfolk, Va. On December 4, 2002, she was "accidentally" sunk as a target during explosive tests off Puerto Rico as CARON was believed to survice the tests and scheduled to be sunk as a target in 2003. Secondary explosions during the test finally caused her to sink. USS CARON was the first VLS-equipped ship ever used as target during a SINKEX. (Pictures at the end of the page)." from http://navysite.de/dd/dd970.htm

[280PLUS]

http://navysite.de/dd/ddg14.htm

please note that she wouldn't go down on the 13th, so they sent EOD in with charges and down she went on the 14th-

spooky huh?

not only that but at the time, my old xo was comnavsurfpac when she was being sunk, i wrote him and asked that he use something really big on her for me, so i consider the gbu-2400 "my bomb"

if you look thriough the hole in the fantail in the pic of her going down you can see my steering gear and my diesel,

both painted lovingly by yours truly on more than one occasion

i joked with the heads that it was my fine paint jobs that kept her together during the bombardment,,,i don't think they thought that was too funny,,,

:D

hah, if you look into the hole in the bow, just under mt 51 you can see where my rack was for many a year,,,key word,,,was...it done got blowed up!:what:

about 20 feet aft of the same hole, you can see the entrance "wound" of the missle that blew the hole,,,

i find it interesting that in all the pix, you can see that the steel blew apart at the welds,,,

[Obiwan]

I know a Master Chief on the Stennis

They put back into port to let off sailors whose homes had been destroyed

[Hutch]

<tinfoil ON> I believe, and I'm backed up by direct experience of a flattop flyboy (rotary-wing type, not a tail-hooker) that even the non-nuclear CV's can hike up their skirts and make MUCH better time than is generally known or acknowledged. His CV (America, IIRC) had to dash out from under a storm so they could heli-lift a suddenly sick VIP back to the beach for treatment. According to my acquaintance, they hit >45 kts for a few hours, leaving the rest of the CVBG behiind. :what: <tinfoil OFF> FWIW. If true. But I believe it.

[280PLUS]

we called ourselves mushrooms,,,

kept in the dark and fed BS,,,

:D

the buch could do 33 knots flat out,,,thats all i know for sure,,,i don't think thats classified anymore,,,or they'll be coming to kill me any day now,,,
:what:

there was a claim that the spruance class could do 45+ but now everyone says no way, so,,,ya just never know

i couldn't even talk them into letting an old snipe get a look at the engineering spaces on the caron visit, :(

m

i'll tell you what else sucked, seeing Chiefs that looked like kids to me,,,

:what:

the OOD was duly impressed when i addressed him as chief instead of thinking he was an officer, got a way big grin out of him

:D