What is the biggest POS you ever shot?


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Warhawk83
September 17, 2009, 10:18 PM
The idea of this thread came about today because of a MAJOR POS I rented at an indoor range. I usually shoot my .40 but it's at a gunsmith having meprolight sights installed. So I rented a .45,never fired one and have always been curious. Taurus PT 24/7 .45, I have seen many threads here wit people ripping apart Taurus. I didn't give it much credit because you can always find someone to talk crap about something. I have to say, you Taurus raggers appear to be right.

First: The magazine release is where my thumb grips the damn gun. I adjusted my grip for this.

Next: First shot, no lie, I get a bullseye. Next shot, the magazine falls out, and my thumb is NOWHERE near the release.

There were several failure to feeds,and every 3rd shot the magazine would fall out!!! This gun was such a piece that I only fired 15 rounds! I have 35 rounds of a caliber I don't even own!

By FAR, the WORST gun I have EVER had the aggravation of handling!

So, lets have em, what is the biggest POS you ever fired?

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Mags
September 17, 2009, 10:19 PM
Believe it or not it was a Glock! I am not a Glock basher , I love my Glock 19 but my Glock 23 would shoot in a burst mode at the most unexpected of times.

KenWP
September 17, 2009, 10:25 PM
The worst gun I ever shot was a Mark 4 Enfeild never could figure that gun out from day one. Next was a Stevens 12 gauge that had a molted brown plastic stock and a weird kind of action. I always wondered what how many of them they made and if anybody still used them much.

NMGonzo
September 17, 2009, 10:31 PM
Rental guns being bad?

I only rented two in my whole life.

I could not hit sheize with either of them.

dubbleA
September 17, 2009, 10:31 PM
No doubt....Tikka T3 Lite in 270 WSM, it didnt shoot groups, it shot patterns! :barf:

bigalexe
September 17, 2009, 10:32 PM
If we will allow it: extremely aged and heavily used boy scout camp lever-action Daisy air rifles. Couldn't hit a barn at 10 feet from the inside with some of them.

moojpg2
September 17, 2009, 10:32 PM
well, if were only talking newer or modern guns, the worst experience i ever had was with a taurus revolver chambered in .17hmr, the fired case would kick back and jam up the cylinder every time it went off, it was like the single shot from hell

Thingster
September 17, 2009, 10:47 PM
Biggest raging heap was a beretta bobcat .22. terrible action, jam-o-matic to the extreme regardless of how clean i got it or what kind of ammo i was using, couldn't hit a watermelon with it at 15 feet, and it waspainful to shoot. not in the hand, but the ears and head. it wasn't loud but it was piercing.

Second was whatever a fullsize glock in 10mm is. couldn't get the magazine to stay in more than 5 or 6 shots and could barely keep the shots on an 11x17 at 15 yards.

paintballdude902
September 17, 2009, 10:50 PM
an old boy scout .22lr single shot (well it had a mag but we werent allowed to use them) the front sights were all bent or broken the rear was normally off and the trigger felt like someone was dragging me down a gravel road for 3 miles

Matrix187
September 17, 2009, 10:53 PM
Hi point 9mm pistol.

shotgunjoel
September 17, 2009, 10:57 PM
I was at the range once when a friend showed up with this thrashed single shot 20 gauge. This thing had some serious surface rust going, and the bead was gone. The action opened like one of those cat food cans. It was kinda cool to shoot, just because it was kinda small. I'd say it had a 20 in barrel and about a 12 inch LOP. I think he said that he bought it for like $20.

mljdeckard
September 17, 2009, 11:07 PM
Sigma .40. I was raped when I traded it in, and I wept with joy.

Sixtigers
September 17, 2009, 11:18 PM
Without a doubt, the worst gun I ever owned/shot was a TEK9. I bought it for $150 in 1987, and promptly bought two more 30 round mags for it, at a cost of $29 apiece. The first time I fired it, I got 30 rounds through it. After that, every other round was a stovepipe. Didn't matter which mag, or what type of bullet--it would not auto feed. Accuracy was for scheisse. I brought it to a gunsmith I trusted when I was on leave back home, and he laughed me out of his shop when I asked him if it could be fixed. I literally threw the gun out with the trash (after torching it in half). I was young, and it was my third gun ever (at the time). I'm smarter now.

To this day, whenever I see a TEK9 in a movie, I have to laugh when I see it actually working.

proud2deviate
September 17, 2009, 11:26 PM
A .22 semi-auto (in theory, at least,) rifle of unknown make and model. I remember it was black, probably plastic, and it loaded through a port in the stock. *pop* Jam. *pop* Jam. *pop* Jam. Lather, rinse, repeat. The ultimate ammo conservation machine.

The accuracy sucked too, IIRC.

CapnMac
September 17, 2009, 11:46 PM
Worst I bought would be a magazine ad deal for gen-u-ine WWII 1911A1s. Went to my FFL and he ordered one in. He was almost ashamed to show it to me. I was taken aback, too. But, he and his shop had put in a lot of effort to clean it up, and I'd had him order it in good faith, so I paid and left. Oh boy, was this a piece of work. Slide stop appeared to have been drilled out and a bit of rod welded in as a replacement stop. Fit of the stop was bad at best. Replaced it with a milspec one. Meant there were two non-rattling parts, the stop and the RH grip. Shot like nothing much was fitted, too. I traded it for a 1903A3 and walked away a bandit and happy.

Not bought would have to be an M60; it had been to the armorers one too many times, with one too many non-milspec parts for both M60 and M60A1 (and maybe A1E2 parts). I suspect it had been used to demostrate why you do not apply the safety cover open and close the cover and then try and shoot. It loved to ruin otherwise good barrels, too (so no one wanted it near their supply). Turned back up like a bad penny, too.

Took a long while to believe in the Mk 47 Mod 0, but I do.

doc2rn
September 17, 2009, 11:57 PM
well, if were only talking newer or modern guns, the worst experience i ever had was with a taurus revolver chambered in .17hmr, the fired case would kick back and jam up the cylinder every time it went off, it was like the single shot from hell


You got one of the instant backups too! I feel your pain Mine went back 4 times in the the three yrs I owned it I had it for 10 days including the days I was either picking it up or dropping it off at the Fed Ex.
Wept with joy as I traded it in on my NAA .22 Mag.

tribbles
September 18, 2009, 12:17 AM
Davis Arms .22WMR derringer. Couldn't hit a milk jug at ten FEET. Would have probably been more accurate and done more damage if thrown at an assailant. Only put two rounds through it (one through each barrel), but two was enough. Sold it on consignment down at the gun shop for more than I thought it was worth.

DeepSouth
September 18, 2009, 12:22 AM
Walther P22

Bruno2
September 18, 2009, 12:33 AM
mosin nagant , sks (any make or model ), Tokerav ,Davis 380 , anything chambered in 25 auto, various lamas , this great big hi point 45 that my cousin owns ( and absolutely is in love with ). Some other popular saturday night special ( cant think of the name right now , but , is right up there with Davis )Draganov . I am sure that some more will come to mind

Oh yeah and this stoeger coach gun that shoots 6 ft below point of aim at less than 20 yds

"Jennings" thats the name Iwas looking for

Erik M
September 18, 2009, 12:55 AM
Cousins severly used Glock 23 .40, I couldnt hit the broad side of a barn with it.

mustang_steve
September 18, 2009, 01:39 AM
A Lorcin 9mm. Someone at the range had one, I let him fire my pistol if I could fire his.

It was a jam-fest. 3 jams in 16 rounds. I asked him if this was normal....turns out he's just a plinker and found the recoil of a 9mm more exciting than a .22lr....so he really didn't care if it jammed a few times.

I think with some gunsmithing, it could be decent...but the work would easily cost more than the handgun.

wilkersk
September 18, 2009, 02:12 AM
XDm 9mm. 2009 pistol of the year - right!

pinstripe
September 18, 2009, 02:41 AM
Lorcin 9mm. I purchased the pistol, took it to the range, and it jammed the first 2 rounds, right before it locked up the slide. Took it back to the dealer and ended up with a ruger p95. I HATE LORCIN........

natman
September 18, 2009, 03:50 AM
Easy. Charter Arms AR-7 "survival" gun. This is a takedown 22 with a bulbous plastic stock. The barrel is removable and the action and barrel can be stored in the stock. Great concept, terrible execution. Cast pot metal action, crudely stamped steel parts. Don't know about accuracy, could never get it to feed and fire consistently enough to shoot groups.

If your survival depends on one of these working, you might as well put the muzzle in your mouth, pull the trigger and hope it goes off, because you are doomed.

THE DARK KNIGHT
September 18, 2009, 03:59 AM
If your survival depends on one of these working, you might as well put the muzzle in your mouth, pull the trigger and hope it goes off, because you are doomed.

Pure Win.

jakemccoy
September 18, 2009, 04:05 AM
Believe it or not, it was a Glock 17!

Just kidding, I just wanted to bash Glock so I can feel what it's like to be part of the in-crowd.

Seriously, I have never shot a POS gun. If I know a gun is in bad condition by looking at it, then I won't shoot it. If I know a gun is in bad condition because I'm told so, then I won't shoot it. I've only shot guns that are in good working order. Knock on wood. I'm also not that great of a shooter. I don't have enough skill and arrogance to blame poor shooting results on a gun. I want to get to that point, but I'm just not there yet.

Bad Penny 03
September 18, 2009, 04:13 AM
Jennings .22LR..no wait,
a friends tec-9
I tried my best to talk him out of buying the damn thing, but he had to have it.
He used to get every type of malfunction in the book with that POS.
My favorite is when it would stove pipe a live round. The act of clearing the malfunction would reveal a new dent in the alloy feed ramp from the case head...thereby rendering the weapon permanently incapable of reliably feeding anything ever again.
The magazine looked like it was hammered together by drunken orangutans.
The fact that the "safety" was manipulated by pushing and pulling the cocking handle in and out of the weapon was just the icing.

hogshead
September 18, 2009, 05:14 AM
Sig mosquito nib came with two recoil springs to adjust to load used. Tried every 22 ammo I had went and borrowed some more.Wouldnt feed anything.Wore out slide changing springs . Cleaned it up took it to gun show sold it before I got through door. Told the man it was a pos he laughed, wonder if he is still laughing? Still dont like Sigs.

PandaBearBG
September 18, 2009, 05:47 AM
Great name but worst gun I've ever shot. Colt All American 2000, trigger was too long, too heavy, and just plain awkward. Always jammed, FTF, sometime the slide wouldn't even hit all the way home and had to give it a little whack. Luckily it was my friend's who she got for free from her dad. Plus breaking it down to open it was a pain in the arse! It was soo finicky and too many bits and pieces that just didn't line up right, usually took me longer to put it back together and to shoot and clean it! I hated it.

mcdonl
September 18, 2009, 05:53 AM
Davis Arms .22WMR derringer. Couldn't hit a milk jug at ten FEET.

Thanks you! Does this apply to all Derringers? My wife wants a go for a wlk gun...

Bruno, you have SHOT all of those guns? This thread is about he worse gun you have shot. I hate to say it, because it is one of my favorites but my 1895 Mosin is pretty bad. I have another and it shoots fine, but the old french one is waaay off.

SalchaketJoe
September 18, 2009, 06:16 AM
Friend's Walther P22. Also, same friend, Remington 797? I think? Semi auto .22 rifle. Jam O'Matic. He tried to trade it in at the gun store and they laughed. Thing was near new.

Hokkmike
September 18, 2009, 06:57 AM
A single shot lever action Marlin 20 gauge shotgun.

Mr.510
September 18, 2009, 07:53 AM
Worn out Iver Johnson top-break .38. :what: My dad called it a Saturday Night Special. I get shivers thinking how lucky I am to be alive after shooting that thing! It spit chunks of lead out the gap and sparks everywhere. To it's credit, it always went bang and never went kaboom. Actually, it's sitting in a family members' night stand drawer with one under the hammer right now as I type this. :)

TheNev
September 18, 2009, 08:40 AM
A .22 semi-auto (in theory, at least,) rifle of unknown make and model. I remember it was black, probably plastic, and it loaded through a port in the stock. *pop* Jam. *pop* Jam. *pop* Jam. Lather, rinse, repeat. The ultimate ammo conservation machine.

The accuracy sucked too, IIRC.

Sounds to me like a Remington Nylon 66. I have one in brown, and it is as accurate as I can be. Never had a jam either.

chuckusaret
September 18, 2009, 08:51 AM
Worst every, Glock 22. Failed before I had a chance to put the first mag thru it. The remains were molded into a paper weight....

03Shadowbob
September 18, 2009, 08:55 AM
Taurus PT140 MilPro

cat9x
September 18, 2009, 09:13 AM
Hi Point 45acp pistol

Just One Shot
September 18, 2009, 10:03 AM
I think I was 15 at the time and I traded a single shot 16 ga. for my first pistol. It was a no name snub nose .22 revolver.

The thing had what felt like a 30 lb. trigger. I stood over a soda can (1' away), fired all 6 rounds and never hit it once.

Pate
September 18, 2009, 12:15 PM
Mine is the Tec-22 and the Cobray M-11 in 380. I hate to admit I owned both.

mljdeckard
September 18, 2009, 12:31 PM
Thenev/proud2 deviate, it actually sounds like a F.I.E. Brazillian knock-off of a Nylon 66. My dad gave me one when I was 14, and it has a checkered history, but I still have it. I have found that you have to use hot ammo and it will cycle. The problem I have now was that the windage screw is bent, I'll have to find a replacement. STILL better than my Sigma .40. :)

Magwa
September 18, 2009, 12:33 PM
Mine was a Kel-Tec sub 2000 in 9mm. Purchased it NIB and heard decent things about it. Took it to the range and after 250 rds (with three different people) shot placement was all over the place. Next trip fired another 250 rds through it and no improvement even with sight adjustment. Next trip was back to its original box and sold it.

Enachos
September 18, 2009, 12:50 PM
My buddy also has a taurus 24/7 in .45. I've never shot it but from what he tells me, it's definitely a POS. Just days after receiving it, he had to return it to the manufacturer for warranty work. He also says it jams like doors jam fingers... I had to hear it for myself too. I'm always sketchy about what i read in forums but hearing it from my good friend just put the argument to rest.

MountainBear
September 18, 2009, 01:00 PM
Hi-Point CS9 pistol. Wouldn't feed for anything, jammed, horrible control locations. All of you who like them are welcome to them, because neither myself nor anyone in my sphere of influence will ever own one...

JonB
September 18, 2009, 01:38 PM
Colt something 1911 in .45 - guy at the range wanted to shoot my XD9 and in turn I tried his colt. I couldn't hit the paper from 15yrds with it, neither could he.

Ruger mini-14. 'nuff said.

BTR
September 18, 2009, 01:40 PM
RG .22 caliber revolver. If I remember correctly, it actually fired every time, but the trigger pull was unbearably heavy, and it would have been more accurate if I had thrown the bullets at the target.

Still, kind of cool to try a classic SNS. Would have been better than nothing.

Pweller
September 18, 2009, 01:58 PM
I rented a Skyy 9mm at the local range. The store clerk warned me that the gun had a problem with the trigger, in that it wouldn't always reset. But, I wanted to try it out just to see how a small 9mm shoots.

But, the gun did have a real problem with the trigger. It wasn't dangerous, it was just that after firing and allowing the trigger to go forward, the mechanism wouldn't always engage the trigger for the next shot (it worked maybe half of the time). So, you'd pull the trigger and nothing would happen. I even went so far as to completely remove my finger from inside the trigger guard, just in case I wasn't letting it go far enough forward.

I was laughing so hard at this junker that I had to be careful to keep the thing pointed downrange.

I don't know if that was a problem with just this gun, or if these are unreliable.

kda
September 18, 2009, 02:02 PM
Remington .22 LR Model 597 that came w/Remington Scope and no iron sights. I bought it brand new a few weeks ago from a major sporting goods store. This rifle was bad beyond description. Shot 7" groups at 25 yards when it was "on". The scope was also a mess; crank away at the elevation and adjustment controls and nothing happened. The trigger was lousy and the clip hung often so that it was impossible to shoot a full clip of anything.

TO BE FAIR, I sent it back to Remington at their expense and they re-barreled it. And the new barrel had a truly delightful set of iron sights. That was a major improvement and really nice of them to do. Remington also sent a replacement scope that works great. Now the 597 is quite accurate and worth every cent I paid for it. The trigger is better (now usable) and the clip they returned with the rifle works pretty well. I must say Remington was more than fair, courteous, prompt and very effective in taking care of my issues. So here is a case where a POS turned into a pretty great purchase because the arms company stepped up to the plate and made it right. Sure takes the fear out of buying another weapon from them.

tjj
September 18, 2009, 02:17 PM
Dittos BTR


My dad's RG .22 revolver. Shaves about 25 % of the bullet off for ya on every shot. Spits fire and lead in all directions. Loud, inaccurate, and dangerous for every thing except the target.:eek:

Shoots like a POS cuz it is a POS.:barf:


Still have it because it was my dad's only gun. Stays in the box.

damien
September 18, 2009, 02:17 PM
I've shot two different Tec-9s and they both would jam every second or third shot.

cerberus65
September 18, 2009, 02:35 PM
Worst I ever shot was a Jennings 9mm that belonged to my brother. He wised up and doesn't own it anymore.

MedWheeler
September 18, 2009, 02:55 PM
Grendel P-10, until I did some work to it. Out of the box, it jammed three or four times per mag, and had a tendency to bounce the cases off my forehead. With the grip extender on it, it was comfortable to shoot, but not very easily concealed. Without it, it was brutal on the web of the hand, and that might have contributed to some of the jams.
Works better now. Had it since 1989, I think.

Lakeshore
September 18, 2009, 03:15 PM
Long time Ruger fan here so it pains me to report that my biggest POS was a P345. Just after they hit the market I shot one of my indoor range's two P345 rental guns with an eye toward possibly buying a new one for myself. Almost every round was a FTE. So...I shot the other one thinking #1 was a fluke. Same thing, multiple FTEs in every mag. In fairness both guns were dirty. I passed on the P345, however I've read some good reviews of the gun by others.

Souris
September 18, 2009, 03:25 PM
2004 Winchester/Olin 94 Trapper carbine in .357 mag- It was so poorly put together that springs would become dislodged from working the action vigorously- traded it in on a SxS shotgun at a huge loss and was very happy that I could get rid of it.

Springfield armory government model 1911a1- Wasn't accurate and would not cycle reliably when it was dry, or dripping wet or anywhere in between. Sold it to a guy after being up front about the reason I was selling it. I hope it worked better for him.

Cougfan2
September 18, 2009, 03:26 PM
My Brother's KelTec .380. On my second shot with it a screw dropped out of the thing and it locked up solid! :what: He fixed it and swears by it, but I'd rather carry a brick for self defense than that thing.

essayons21
September 18, 2009, 03:31 PM
Believe it or not, a M2 .50 cal that belonged to the Michigan National Guard.

I spent 11 months with my .50 cal, ran like a swiss watch. My platoon was loaned to the 101st for about a month, away from the rest of the company. Had to leave my .50 behind and borrow one from a Michigan NG battalion HHC. It was the most beat up weapon I have ever seen, but I figured hey, its a .50 cal. Mine had been dropped of trucks a few times and blown up countless times and still worked. This one had spent the last year inside a conex so it couldn't be that bad.

Took it out to test fire before a mission... 2 shots then FTF. Checked headspace, timing, gave it a bit of lube...2 shots, jam. This happened a few more times until the LT said, screw it, we have to go. Ran that mission hoping nothing happened I couldn't handle with an M4.

Took it to the 101st armorer... he couldn't find anything, said try a different barrel and recheck headspace and timing. Next day, new barrel, had headspace/timing checked and rechecked by 3 different ppl. Got to the test fire barrel on the way out the gate... 2 shots...nothing. Boy I was mad, had to run another mission with a 2 shot .50cal.

Took it back to the armorer, went over it with a fine tooth comb with him and the 101st 1SG, who was also an armorer. Couldn't find anything wrong. Armorer told me to recheck headspace and timing (grrr), 1SG said BS, the gunner is not an idiot, send it to the small arms repair shop on base. Comes back a day later, small arms shop can't find anything wrong, but replaced the springs and extractor anyway. That night, test fire lane... 2 shots... nothing. Yet another mission unarmed.

After that, thankfully our replacements had shown up, and we jacked one of their .50 cals while they were getting settled in. When I went to turn the POS M2 back in, the Michigan armorer (who was different from who issued me the weapon) took a look at the weapon and says "This one never was supposed to be issued out!" I guess he knew it was a junker too. Last I ever saw of that POS, never figured out what was wrong with it... good riddance.

cleardiddion
September 18, 2009, 03:37 PM
Remington 597 viper.
I have nightmares about that thing.

achildofthesky
September 18, 2009, 03:41 PM
6.5 carcano

Clipper
September 18, 2009, 03:44 PM
Back around 1980 I got a .303 Jungle carbine in trade for a Hawes 1858 kit gun I hadn't shot yet, but had slicked the action and put a beautiful polish and blue on...Anyway, that POS had a classic case of JC Wandering Zero. I couldn't count on it hitting within a foot of the previous shot, hot or cold. Finally got so fed up I hacksawed it into 3 pieces and threw one piece in the trash each week.

rightside
September 18, 2009, 03:44 PM
New Taurus PT140 MilPro :barf::barf::barf:

15guns
September 18, 2009, 03:45 PM
I used to own a new lorcin blued steel .380 semi auto pistol. That and a new semi auto ruko arms core 22lr ar-15 type rifle. Both were jamming junk.

Bruno2
September 18, 2009, 03:48 PM
Yes mcdonl I have SHOT all of them and then some . The thread was about a POS gun that we have shot .

I was fair because I didnt rant on about guns that I dont like or think look extremely goofy . I shot a styer aug (ugliest gun ever made ) it shot very accurately and was comfortable , but , I would never own one b/c it is uglier than a goat terd in a bowl of milk . Another that shot with reliability and was semi comfortable is a calico 9mm that had this crazy drum magazine on top of it , again too ugly for me . I do not prefer Glocks nor do I own one or have ever owned one , but , I shot almost every make and model they offer and never had a poblem with reliability or accuracy . I just dont prefer them and its really not fair to Glock , but , I am not trying to bash them either .

I used to work for a class 3 dealer . I did machine work in the back and also sales in the front . We had a test pipe in the back of the shop and we shot just about everything in the place (especially when the owner was out of town ).

john1911
September 18, 2009, 05:49 PM
Remington 870 Express. Would lock up tight as a drum.

mesinge2
September 18, 2009, 06:04 PM
My first gun was a Cobra Patriot .45ACP. I took it shooting the day I bought it. I had a jam every round. Well, more of a lock-up. It would feed but the trigger would not reset after a shot was fired. Everyshot. I'd have to pull the slide back about an 8th of an inch to reset the trigger. It was basically a single-shot. I went right back to the store I purchased it from, and got rid of it.

HardShell
September 18, 2009, 06:17 PM
Davis P-380 -- pot-metal .380ACP semi-auto (more like a single-shot, if that, but I digress...)


I've owned hundreds of guns since, and it is still the worst. :barf:

NotSoFast
September 18, 2009, 06:49 PM
A U.S. GI .45 caliber 1911 semi-automatic pistol issued to me by the United States Navy. While my Glock isn't the most elegant pistol in the world, it beats that one by a nautical mile (longer than a standard mile :p).

chris in va
September 18, 2009, 07:00 PM
I'd have to say a CZ 52 I bought. Nasty.

mcdonl
September 18, 2009, 07:04 PM
Fair enough, and too bad you had such bad experiences! I imagine it is like working at a car dealer and having to drive a yugo home. The yugo may be a great car for someone who has not had the pleasure of driving a BMW.

bigeye
September 18, 2009, 07:08 PM
Before you decide, got use of the same weapon if you can from a friend or someone you trust. The rentals are usually FAR from what you will find with a well treated weapon. Money is the factor with the facility renting the gun. The more times rented, the better. People will treat their weapons much better, to say the least.

Resto Guy
September 18, 2009, 08:07 PM
Ruger P9.

22-rimfire
September 18, 2009, 09:25 PM
Frankly I have not shot many firearms I didn't own. My least favorite was my H&R 999 (22 revolver) and a Colt Govt Model 380. I got the Colt cheap and it jamed a couple times a magazine. Dumped it within a month as I have no time or interest fiddlin with a gun that doesn't work right.

I have a Glock that shoots about 2 feet low at 20 feet. It may qualify as a POS, but I love my other Glocks that I have owned.

JMusic
September 18, 2009, 09:40 PM
Most semi auto's can be cured by adjusting the magazine. Not saying its ok just telll you what I've seen. The lips at the front may be allowing the cartridge at the wrong angle. Experiment with adjusting the lips to change the angle 20 -3- degrees is about right.



Jim

tkendrick
September 18, 2009, 10:16 PM
Few years back I bought a new angle eject 94 Winchester.

Never jammed

Never misfired


Never hit what it was aimed at. This thing didn't shoot groups, hell, it didn't even shoot patterns.

I once got an 18in group....at 25 yards....and was so frustrated at the time that I thought it was good!!!

Speedo66
September 18, 2009, 10:22 PM
Charter Arms AR-7

'Nuff said.

jojo200517
September 18, 2009, 10:41 PM
Probably the worst ever was a guys new .380 cal HI POINT. After getting over the fact it was the size of most .45's and being afraid to squeeze the plastic trigger it didn't fully eject the rounds every shot and hung on the extractor turned sideways in the opening. After he took it apart and filed on the extractor to get the rough machine marks off it would work about 4 out of every 5 shots.

Shadow 7D
September 19, 2009, 01:05 AM
I've shot guns that I don't like, some of these guns listed have ISSUES, most of which can be addressed, I own a hipoint and a couple of other guns on this list, they work well within their limitations. Jenning or any of the other ring of fire guns, those I fear because whole explosion thing, but then again, at least one person on this board collects them.

Personal worst POS, Kimber 45 tried it a range, the owner wanted to try my glock. Had operation errors manly due to ergo and unfamiliarity, then it would jam. Just not what I expected from a top shelf gun.

JWF III
September 19, 2009, 06:49 AM
For the life of me, I can't remember what his name was. Oops , sorry. i didn't mean that:D

I try to only buy quality firearms, so my biggest POS has to be either my Glock 22 or my Mosseberg 590. I never had a FTF or a FTE or any other problem with the function of either gun. Both are very dependable. It's just that I can't stand the Glock (didn't know that until after I bought it). And the ergonomics (fit) are so horrid on the Mossberg, that it beats the hell out of me with my lightest reloads.

Wyman

possum
September 19, 2009, 09:36 AM
ironically the biggest pos handgun was the most accuarte handgun that i have veer shot. a ruger p345, i had wanted one for a long time, got one, shot it alot it was accurate but it woudl never run more than a mag w/o an issue. ruger sent me new mags, then it got worse, i sent it to ruger, and i guess they fixed it and i got rid of it.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 19, 2009, 09:48 AM
I once briefly owned a Mitchell Arms turnbolt in .22 mag which would not ignite the rims in about 1 out of 3 or 4 shots, and patterned (not grouped). Not a complete POS but not good. An H&R .22 lr revolver I once owned for 2 days would shave off rounds and spew hot lead framents into your face. Owned a *lock* S&W for about a week - it sucked.

rogertc1
September 19, 2009, 10:09 AM
It was a M60 machine gun during my advanced training at Ft. Riley KS preping me for Vietnam in 1970. I carried a big heavy assed M60 for a week that would jam every other round. I finally just made machine gun sounds when I had to shoot the darn thing.
Kinda interesting how one can invent different ways to carry the heavy POS.

jeepmor
September 19, 2009, 10:52 AM
Witness 10 mm full size. Total jammo-matic, time to trade it in at the local pawn shop.

mountainpharm
September 19, 2009, 11:29 AM
Taurus PT 111 Millenium 9mm

DeadLiver
September 20, 2009, 12:49 AM
It would have to be my wife's Phoenix Arms HP22. In the first three months she had it, I had to send it to them twice. The first time the barrel cracked lengthwise, second time it had a nick in the chamber that prevented feeding. Since then its goes bang most of the time with usually one FTE every second or third magazine. I got it new from a local dealer for $80 hoping that it would be a good cheap way to introduce the wife to pistols....not a good idea.

Ky Larry
September 20, 2009, 01:05 AM
Tec-9. Jam-O-Matic P.O.S. I was young and stupid.
Also a Taurus PT-92. First trip to the range the rear sights fell off and the slide locked. Again, I was young and stupid.

The_Pretender
September 20, 2009, 01:16 AM
Glock for me. I just don't like them. They feel blocky, have no asthetic quality, and I don't wany anything that could melt in the sun. :D

ChCx2744
September 20, 2009, 09:27 AM
The worst gun I've ever shot was a Bryco Jennings 9mm pistol...It literally FTE EVERY shot. EVERY shot. EVERY FREAKING shot. The second worst gun I've ever shot was a S&W Sigma in .40S&W...Very poor accuracy, FTF's and FTE's regularly...By the way, both of these guns were fairly new...I've shot freaking Hi Points that were more accurate and functioned better than those 2 pieces of schnat.

eflatminor
September 20, 2009, 10:28 AM
An old Freedom Arms revolver...that didn't really revolve. What a piece of crap.

scythefwd
September 20, 2009, 11:16 AM
My old TV.. or are you referring to the gun as the POS?

Redbeard55
September 20, 2009, 03:03 PM
Ruger 10/22 Target with a stainless barrel. Accuracy is worse than any other 22 I ever shot. Will shot the first 50 rounds without jamming. After that it is a jam-o-matic. Sent it back to Ruger. They didn't fix the problem and it continues to jam.

Wishoot
September 20, 2009, 05:11 PM
Marlin 60. FTE or FTF every other round. Nothing would get this thing working correctly.

OTOH, a friend has the same model and it works just great for him.

Erik M
September 20, 2009, 05:28 PM
Charter Arms AR-7

If your survival depends on one of these working, you might as well put the muzzle in your mouth, pull the trigger and hope it goes off, because you are doomed.
5/5 Best statement in the thread. Im really glad I diddnt buy one of these. Almost bought one of those single shot crickets to, but ended up passing.

21bubba
September 20, 2009, 06:53 PM
Ruger security six. Needed to tighten every screw after every cylinder. Changed screws, no help. changed screws and added loctite, no help. Went back to ruger,nothing wrong. Used as trade for s&w model 19, helped a bunch.

effengee
September 20, 2009, 08:47 PM
Do those bb guns at the fairs count?
God those things suck... But it still doesn't stop me from dumping at least five bucks to shoot a full-auto something at a little red star:evil:

Hands down it's a Jenning .22 pocket pistol.
I'm a reasonably good shot with darn near anything but one of them.
I've tried at least three or four of them so I know it's not just a fluke.

Kel-Tec sub2000 9mm
Cool concept, bad sight picture, horrible spread pattern...

Traded it for a Romanian Kalashniclone and have been a much happier person ever since.

searcher451
September 22, 2009, 04:44 PM
Easy: A NIB Beretta Tomcat. It crapped out at 66 rounds, and I didn't get a single magazine through it before it crapped out for good (trigger) that didn't have some sort of misfeed or FTE or even a failure to fire or two. Even Beretta couldn't fix it, apparently; they sent me a new one, although it took months and months. Ugh. :banghead:

CoRoMo
September 22, 2009, 05:10 PM
Savage/Stevens model 187 .22lr semi-auto rifle.

I still own it. For a semi-auto, it makes a good single-shot.

Maverick223
September 22, 2009, 05:19 PM
Pistol would be a father's former (got him to sell the POS) Davis Industries .380ACP...glad it didn't shatter when fired.

Rifle would be a friend's Universal Carbine (late model)...charging handle ended up breaking into a half dozen bits when a said buddy fired it...I was lucky that it didn't happen to me...he was lucky he didn't get hurt. :)

ENCPirate
September 22, 2009, 05:33 PM
RG-14, was purchased by my mom when she used to work at a hospital and had to walk to her car late some nights, many years ago. She didnt know much about guns and probably told the guy at the pawn shop she just wanted something that would not kick much. Found it at the top of a closet a few years back and she gave it to me. After reading about how awful RG's were I decided to go see if it would even work. So I cleaned it up, shot through 1 cylinder and could not hit anything with it, put it back in the safe where it has been to this day.

kwelz
September 22, 2009, 05:41 PM
Biggest POS Ihave personally fired was my last DPMS rifle.
Out of spec chamber, broken FSB, numerous other problems.

Maverick223
September 22, 2009, 05:48 PM
Biggest POS Ihave personally fired was my last DPMS rifle.Send it back, I have heard (no personal experience) that DPMS has great customer service. Good luck, Mav.

glocking26
September 22, 2009, 09:50 PM
Well I hate to say it....The colt python.:what: Yep the revolver by which all others revolvers are judged.Yea I know what your thinking this guys is nuts but the big bucks you spend on one you would think it would be perfect. Mine went out of time the first time I fired it. But it sure was pretty to look it.(Not the biggest POS I ever shot be I had to throw it in.):)

Madcap_Magician
September 22, 2009, 10:45 PM
Likely half the OP's problem was that it was a rental gun. I've seen rental GLOCKS do the same thing.

earlthegoat2
September 22, 2009, 10:55 PM
Lorcin 380.

The bane of many shooters here and oddly enough the people who rob 7-11s at midnight.

Kevin77
September 23, 2009, 01:55 AM
I had a Sigma .40 that I couldn't get to shoot in the same spot twice. It functioned perfectly butI couldn't hit a thing with it. Now I have a Tuarus 1911 and I love it. Not as good as a Kimber that I shot but way cheaper.

renegade1alpha
September 23, 2009, 05:15 AM
Clerke 1st 5-shot revolver in .32 S&W Long. No rifling in the barrel and you can spin the cylinder with the hammer back. I still own the gun for novelty sake. Believe me, it is THE biggest POS gun over anything anyone has posted on here. I bet money on that!

qajaq59
September 23, 2009, 07:42 AM
A Jennings .22 pistol. Now THAT really is a POS!!!!! :banghead:

NavyLCDR
September 23, 2009, 11:48 AM
He was about 6' 4" and 240 lbs.

Oh, wait, I misunderstood the title.

Maverick223
September 23, 2009, 12:33 PM
Oh, wait, I misunderstood the title.Hehehe :D

KBT1911
September 23, 2009, 09:39 PM
An Eibar Fast PPK copy in .380, made in Spain. The action stuck, it wouldn't feed for poo and shot like a scattergun.

m_kirk2001
September 23, 2009, 09:55 PM
Shot a friend's single shot .22LR. I don't know what kind it was, I just know it was beat up, the extractor didn't work (he used a butter to get the spent case out), the wood stock was all banged up, and it didn't have a rear sight.

enfield303
September 23, 2009, 10:34 PM
Davis .380. belonged to a buddy of mine. the reason he got it? "It was shiny"

Maverick223
September 23, 2009, 10:47 PM
Davis .380. belonged to a buddy of mine. the reason he got it? "It was shiny"Perhaps that is why my dad bought one...good ole' shiny pot metal. There have been some major incidents (like slide breakage) with those pistols...tell him to discard it at a location of his choosing (perhaps you could send it to Brady for demonstrating the lethality of handguns :evil:).

zt77
September 23, 2009, 10:48 PM
taurus model 94. trigger was so bad I can't describe it. cyclinder gap was too small and it would lock up after 200 shots. i took it apart after a mere 3000 rounds to finnd the hammer broke off it's pin. pos....my smiths never do any of those. or my colts, rugers, etc. at to top it off i sent it back and they send me a brand new one....with no cylinder stop in it....***???

fattboyzz
September 23, 2009, 11:08 PM
a rossi single shot 243

NC-Mike
September 23, 2009, 11:14 PM
American Arms PX-22

It was a jam-o-matic when I got it.

Never really tried to fix it, passed it on to a dealer after telling him what a POS it was. He said, ah, you probably just need to find the ammo it likes.

He was an optimist. I had already tried 6 or 7 different types of ammo but I'm just glad he took it and actually gave me some money too!

gym
September 23, 2009, 11:19 PM
I never shot a pos, only guns that needed adjustments

Dustyattic
September 23, 2009, 11:40 PM
I would love to get my hands on all these clunkers, just to see how many I could fix.

I have seen 2 votes for a Remington 597. I'll add one more. I bought one brand new from Wal-Mart and it jammed about 50% of the time.

mustang_steve
September 24, 2009, 12:23 AM
NC-mike,

Funny you mention the PX-22, I'm getting my father's one within the next month (as soon as he can find it and FFL it to me). It's mostly nostalgia value, it was the first handgun I ever fired. He let me fire it since it was the easiest thing for a kid to fire that he had.

I'm going to run a few mags through it for history's sake when I get it. Sure it was jammin more than bob marley, but hey...it's a piece of my childhood.

Jubjub
September 24, 2009, 12:51 AM
Grendel P30.

My buddy that owned it loaded up a full magazine and let me have at it. It jammed in every way possible, and some that I have seen in no other gun. I got it to fire two shots in a row a few times, and once three shots, and it mangled five or six rounds before they were fired. It probably took five minutes to go through the 30 rounds. Oh, and the trigger pull was probably fifteen pounds and I couldn't keep the shots it did fire on a paper plate at 10 yards.

He loaded it up again and went to it. After a few shots, it went off out of battery, which damaged the magazine and ended shooting it for the day. From what remnants of the case we found, it looked like a round got tipped up vertically and the rim was crushed by the slide going forward. We both got stung pretty good, but had shooting glasses on, so no harm done.

PotatoJudge
September 24, 2009, 01:17 AM
I wish the P-30 worked, because it's a pretty cool design.

I can't say I've shot anything that bad, just home gunsmithing gone wrong (not mine) and some guns that needed tweaking/repair. The plan is to keep it that way.

frankiestoys
September 24, 2009, 06:22 AM
A worn out Taurus 357 tracker from my local range.

kjeff50cal
September 24, 2009, 02:38 PM
Smith & Wesson Escort .22 pistol, that POS belonged to a boss I worked for... I would have shot it if it fired any of the 5 different brands of ammo I had on hand. Main spring the culprit, but when it was replaced it would not feed anything.

Onward Allusion
September 24, 2009, 10:19 PM
POS Taurus 1911 in SS. It was real pretty, but the left safety fell off after 50 rounds of target ammo. Then the slide wouldn't lock back after the last round. Took it to my smith twice to get the safety fixed. Finally replaced the ambidextrous safety with a single side, replaced the slide release and springs.

I got an even trade for a Colt Officer's Target Model 22 in NRA Excellent condition and haven't looked back.

Beelzy
September 24, 2009, 10:24 PM
The American Arms TP70 .25cal pistol.

It was such a POS that it still BARELY made for a good Rock. Happy Day when I traded it
away on a S&W 586.

Shytheed Dumas
September 24, 2009, 10:56 PM
+1 for RG 22 revolver. My father in law lent it to me before I bought a 22 pistol of my own. It failed to fire every third or fourth round, and my son recently picked up a cap gun at the dollar store that had a better trigger. I gave it back to him after a few days and started shopping for a real gun.

Dirkmanchest
September 24, 2009, 11:53 PM
Mine was the 1st pistol I ever owned.
Mom bought it for me at age 14.

An RG-38s, blue, 4 inch, cheap plastic grips.

It would fire, but you had to rotate the cylinder with each shot.
It could "group" about a 14 X 14 inch circle at 5 yards. Often with one flyer.

After 5 boxes of .38 special LRN it just fell apart. The trigger would not pull, it would not lock into battery, sight fell off, and maybe a screw or two.
And I mowed lawns all summer to buy tha hunk of Zinc.:fire:

Maverick223
September 25, 2009, 12:21 AM
Welcome to, uh, posting Dirkman...if it "grouped" 14*100/5=280MOA:what:...what was the flyer like?

carbineguy
January 25, 2010, 12:25 AM
s&w sigma in 40 a 9 is the worst shooting thing ever u would beg to own that taurus if u ever shot one of them id prefer take a bullet then be caught carrying one of them

Maverick223
January 25, 2010, 12:57 AM
s&w sigma in 40 a 9 is the worst shooting thing everI hate the handling characteristics, overall feel, and the controls, but Sigmas have been near 100% IME.

:)

Extremely Pro Gun
January 25, 2010, 01:24 AM
Remington 770!!!!! Action jerky rough and loose, Accuracy flat out sucks, the cheaper Stevens 200 is WAAAAAAY better, the simalarly priced Weatherby Vanguard is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better.

Sig 556!!!!!! twice the weight of the AR, Same firepower, Rattler, The sights suck, Parts are not interchangeable, twice as much money as an AR, less accurate.

Sigma!!!-- No explanation needed... Garbage.

Colt AR 22!!!- Broke in half at work.


Wow now what do all of these have in common?

All come from companies that have a great name. These companies use a great name in the business to market a total POS, which is UNACCEPTABLE.

Palehorseman
January 25, 2010, 04:41 AM
#1) A Browning Hi-Power, to put it simply, was a POS. #2) A Colt Python bought back in the late 1960s, never punished it, but in less than a year, was a rattling piece of junk

Deus Machina
January 25, 2010, 04:53 AM
Never shot a real POS.

My S&W 469 shoots consistantly 5" low at 7 yards, and the grip makes me shoot to the right. Good enough to carry, and refuses to malfunction, but not accurate.

A friend of mine was given a Lorcen .25 for his new house. :rolleyes: The slide doesn't lock back, so he counted off shots. Guess he forgot one in the chamber; counted, removed his finger from inside the trigger guard, and set it down on the bench--and it fired.

Ala Dan
January 25, 2010, 02:25 PM
An old Arminus 8-shot .22LR caliber revolver~! :cuss: :banghead:

Ronsch
January 25, 2010, 04:08 PM
Two really bad stinkers...

The first was an American Arms knockoff of the Colt Frontier Scout. It had an external safety on the left side of the frame. First and last time I have seen that on a single action of any kind. It fired for about 25 rounds, then the safety fell out. After that, it was hit and miss. In addition, the ejector rod was bent when I bought it. Sadly, this little "gem" fell into the Wabash River, unfortunately, while I was cleaning it and had it disassembled...

The second one was a unmarked/unknown .25 ACP automatic. It appeared to be either 1) plated and completely pitted or 2) the bluing was worn completely off and the metal had pitted. It would fire one round (normally) and then go full auto. Sadly, it too ended fell into the Wabash River, unfortunately, while I had it disassembled for cleaning.

Judicator
January 25, 2010, 04:13 PM
Auto-Ordnance GI-spec 1911. It would jam with 230-grain FMJ, wouldn't chamber a hollowpoint if your life depended on it. Fun to shoot when it worked, just poor quality control at the factory.

lilguy
January 25, 2010, 04:23 PM
My Marlin 1895 after I ran an overcharge through it. Loved that beauty, RIP.

FueledByGuinness
January 25, 2010, 04:34 PM
Taurus PT145. Sometimes I could get an entire magazine of FMJ to feed but forget JHP.

ronbuick
January 25, 2010, 05:19 PM
One thing I noticed is not many foreign guns made the list!! I have a couple of Mosins,
great rifles,also have some Tokarevs, never jams after 3-400 rounds so far, Charter Arms, yes it does jam every other round til you chamfer the chamber, not much chamfering though, it rips off a 7 and a 15 rd mags now with no problems, my 10/22 jams quite often also, I hope our troops have better guns then what is made here in the states, this is just my observation.

Ron

CrashInBlack
January 25, 2010, 07:13 PM
Lorcin 9mm. Didn't lock the slide back after the last round was fired, but consistently stovepiped the last round so I'd know to switch out the mag.

The Tennessean
January 25, 2010, 07:16 PM
s&w sigma in 40 a 9 is the worst shooting thing ever u would beg to own that taurus if u ever shot one of them id prefer take a bullet then be caught carrying one of them

Funny, I own a SW40VE and it has been nothing but a pleasure to own and shoot.

In approximately 3,5000 rounds fired through the gun I have yet to have a malfunction of any kind.

GBExpat
January 25, 2010, 07:31 PM
The biggest POS I ever shot?

No contest, a Military Gun Supply/Wise Lite Arms semi-auto version of the PPSh-41

Drail
January 25, 2010, 07:40 PM
M 16. Qualified expert but I still hate them.

ol' scratch
January 25, 2010, 07:50 PM
My experence shot and owned a S & W Sigma in .40. Horrible trigger, balance was all off. I also had a bad experence with a WASR. I know lots of people love em', but I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with mine. I still love the platform and will someday own another AK, but THAT WASR was a POS.

chevyforlife21
January 25, 2010, 07:59 PM
bruno you dont like the sks? ive never heard someone not like one its not a precision gun but its fun

Patriotme
January 25, 2010, 08:26 PM
I had a Springfield V10 about 12 or so years ago. It was a POS from day one. It would not shoot an entire mag without at least one jam. I figured, "OK, it's in the break in period." Wrong.
I put about 600 rnds through it, used 5 different mags (3 different manufacturers) and tried different .45 cal loads by different manufacturers. It remained a piece of crap.
I sent it back to Springfield 2 or 3 times. They finally got it good enough that it would only jam once in about every 50 rounds. I don't consider that acceptable and will never buy another M1911A1 from Springfield.
By the way, the last time the V10 went back they replaced the slide. The steel was so soft that the slide lock was rounding out the notch in the side of the slide.

UranusDestiny
January 25, 2010, 08:28 PM
The biggest POS I ever shot?

No contest, a Military Gun Supply/Wise Lite Arms semi-auto version of the PPSh-41
Might I ask for a little elaboration? I was eyeing the PPsH-41, and would love to get your opinion on it and why it sucked.

LeontheProfessional
January 25, 2010, 09:01 PM
Ruger P89 with a NY trigger.

Kimber45acp
January 25, 2010, 09:05 PM
I got for my first semi was a JA-Nine. (9mm)
the feed ramp was so Sharp.. FMJ ok HP. no way it would load..
I took a metal file, and Filed the feed ramp and now shoots some what ok.. Working fine with FMJ and not HPs, doesn't make a gun a POS. Many more expensive guns have not cooperated with HPs. Merely having to tweak a feed ramp would make half the guns in production a POS.

Dambugg
January 25, 2010, 09:07 PM
Camp carbine. Any gun that gets melted with lacquer thinner can kiss my ass.
The one I had also did not cycle reliably with any ammo.

FROGO207
January 25, 2010, 09:09 PM
I have to add my vote for Locerin 380. Had one and it NEVER fired a complete magazine without 1 stove pipe, 2 FTE , 3 the slide falling off, 4 Mag falling out.:cuss: POS-POS-POS-POS:banghead: I would not depend on it to commit suicide with as I know it would fail!!! Accuracy sucked also as when it fired It would not hit a pattern on the side of a refrigerator box.:what::fire: Only firearm that I have cut in half with a Sawsall.:barf:

RockyMtnTactical
January 25, 2010, 09:17 PM
Walther P22

Maverick223
January 25, 2010, 09:21 PM
...you dont like the sks? ive never heard someone not like one...I am right there with him, I can't say that it is a terribly bad gun (not super accurate, but not horribly inaccurate or unreliable in any way), it just doesn't fit me (unergonomic as hell) and the price has climbed waaay too much lately. In short it simply doesn't float my boat.

:)

counterman6
January 25, 2010, 09:30 PM
I loved my P-32 until the day the trigger fell out and the thing locked up with a round in the chamber. I sent it back and the customer service was excellent, perfect. It came back days later and I traded it along with a Phoenix .22 auto toward a real gun. Action, reaction. That's nature.

Nugilum
January 25, 2010, 09:30 PM
IAI Javelina 10mm. Stove pipe machine. It's a shame, it's a nice looking handgun.

U-235
January 25, 2010, 10:07 PM
I was in the US Navy, we had to qualify with 1911's. The guns they gave us were so worn out that the slides would rattle on the frames. We were shooting at 7 yards and I could barely keep the rounds on the paper.

MikePGS
January 25, 2010, 10:17 PM
Ruger .22 but to be fair it was a rental.

Onward Allusion
January 25, 2010, 10:51 PM
Ok - I'm certain that this was a one time thing. Also, it was a rental gun. Sig P220... First it stovepiped. Then the rear sight flew off!!! It was kinda funny, actually.

Not so funny was my Taurus PT1911 in SS. Ambi safety flew off and slide locked up. I say not funny because I owned the thing - not a rental. Did it 3 times.

Warhawk83 (http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=104147)

What is the biggest POS you ever shot?

atblis
January 25, 2010, 10:55 PM
Walther P22 (three different ones)!

EDIT: Doh, just remembered the RG10. Bigger POS. Kinda funny. The P22 is a modern day RG. Steaming zinc turd from Germany.

wilkersk
January 25, 2010, 11:54 PM
Walther P22 (three different ones)!
...{snip}

Yeah, I've gotta agree! I am now the proud owner of a P22 that I wound up with after a misguided impulse buy from a guy who "needed to sell his to raise money for an unplanned expense."

I use to think the XD(m) 9 was my biggest POS, but it has been surpassed.:banghead:

Maverick223
January 26, 2010, 12:13 AM
As far as the P22, I had one, and while I don't believe it was a great or even good gun, it did okay for about 100rnds. At which time you had to clean, lube...and repeat. Not good enough for me, if I wanted an intensive maintenance regimen I'd get an AR (gonna' catch hell for that quip)...and this was [gasp] worse. :eek:

Full Metal Jacket
January 26, 2010, 12:51 AM
XD45 midsize. Epic POS.

evan price
January 26, 2010, 02:01 AM
A Plymouth 600. I hated that old rust bucket. A full mag from the Sub-2000 took care of it once and for all.

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