Subcompact 1911?


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TenDriver
September 18, 2009, 12:02 AM
I wonder if there is such a thing? Preferably in 9mm. I have an Ultrastar that was supposed to be my carry gun, but it is just a bit too big to conceal properly. I need something subcompact, but I'm a huge fan of the 1911, and I can only afford to have one autoloader around.

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AJChenMPH
September 18, 2009, 12:06 AM
I know zilch about it, but what about the SA EMP?

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=24

TenDriver
September 18, 2009, 12:45 AM
Looks very nice from where I'm sitting. Thanks for the find!

Gonna be well out of the price range. MSRP is over $1300. Still a very nice looking pistol though.

atomd
September 18, 2009, 02:39 AM
There's the LS9 from STI. Kimber has the Ultra Carry II in 9mm and the Ultra CDP II also. Para has the Para Carry 9. I know nothing about any of them so I can't offer anything else on them. There are some semi-customs out there too.

franconialocal
September 18, 2009, 12:59 PM
You've already been given the link for Springfield but I can tell you first hand that the EMP is an excellent handgun esp. for CC. I've shot it a TON since I bought it (over a year ago) and no problems to report AT ALL. It took a while to "break in" but this speaks to the tolerances and quality.

Night Sights
Match grade trigger
dual ambi. safety and beaver-tail grip safety
stainless
great looks/appeal

Def. worth checking out. I paid around $1,100 for mine and I think the prices are still holding steady.

Quack
September 19, 2009, 11:33 AM
EMP.

here's mine with Horned Lizard grips
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/Quackzilla/Guns/DSC_91032.jpg

Balrog
September 19, 2009, 12:09 PM
I have a couple of questions about the EMP.

Is the grip frame the same dimension as a regular officer 1911? or is it shorter front to back because the 9mm cartridge is shorter?

Also, is the EMP narrower overall than a standard 1911?

Quack
September 19, 2009, 05:52 PM
The EMP's grip frame diameter is 1/4 inch smaller, mainly front-back reduction. it's also slightly narrower

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/STspemp_010807E.jpg

Balrog
September 19, 2009, 06:01 PM
What about slide width of the EMP?

GR8GIFT
September 19, 2009, 06:39 PM
Nice G10 grips looks just like my EMP. The slide is the same as an officers 45. Lot's of EMP owners using officers holsters for their EMP's I have a SS-2 from Milt Sparks ordered for my EMP.

Quack
September 19, 2009, 09:50 PM
i believe the width is very slightly smaller, but not much to notice.

Prosser
September 19, 2009, 10:46 PM
The beavertail really needs to go. You should be able to carry it condition 2, with the grip safety, and, the beavertail adds a lot of size, and, it tends to stick into your side, stomach etc. Likewise with the hammer cocked in condition 1, it adds size to the gun.

Girodin
September 19, 2009, 11:00 PM
I see EMP's all the time for $900 and some change. Thats still not cheap but its not $1200 either.

The EMP is a nice gun and if you like the 1911 design you'll like the EMP.

ichiban
September 20, 2009, 09:35 AM
My EMP has been flawless from day one. I removed the ambi thumb safety and installed a single sided for CCW. IMHO 1911s should be carried in condition 1.

Tom Fury
September 20, 2009, 10:45 AM
Detonics, (NOT the pocket 9) and C&S adventurer...
Cheers, TF

Noveldoc
September 20, 2009, 11:35 AM
If you want smallish, cheap and very light weight consider a used star PD. It was the original CCW type 45 ACP pistol. Light aluminum frame cuts a lot of weight off.

I have one that works fine now but I had to put in a new recoil spring and clean up the magazine catch. No biggies. Also I removed the wood grips and tacked them back on with some rubber cement. Now jam free even on lead reloads including SWCs. Feeds HPs just fine.

They are cheap. I got one needing a slide refinish (which I will do soon) for $300 and bet you could get a cleaner one with a bit of auction searching and patience for under $400.

I would avoid the new Stars though. Like Taurus, they used to make pretty decent stuff but now turn out some junk.

Tom

R.Ph. 380
September 21, 2009, 02:29 AM
Detonics Combat Master. Mine is away getting the slide refinished in black chrome but it's a true subcompact with 6+1 and the shortest grip of all. Shortened and deactivated Grip safety, 3" barrel and all stainless parts. Several of the Georgia guns available on gunbroker and Guns America.

Bill

9mmepiphany
September 21, 2009, 03:59 PM
just a question, why are people recommending pistols only available in .45 when the OP stated that he preferred a pistol chambered in 9mm?

i think the EMP would be the ultimate answer too.

if you don't mind used pistols (i like them) you could look for a Star BKM...alloy framed version of the BM...which was customized by LaFrance Specialties, in the 80's, into a very nice pistol called the Nova (like a SAO ASP)

Storm
September 21, 2009, 04:50 PM
The Detonics CombatMaster can be found in 9mm.

9mmepiphany
September 21, 2009, 06:23 PM
The Detonics CombatMaster can be found in 9mm.
Detonics Combat Master. Mine is away getting the slide refinished in black chrome but it's a true subcompact with 6+1 and the shortest grip of all.

wouldn't it's capacity be more than 6 rounds?

my main objection to the Detonics Combat Master is that they compromised sight radius so that it could be thumb cocked on the draw...what were they thinking?...that and the weight

Tom Fury
September 21, 2009, 07:16 PM
There was nothing compromised about the sight radius; shorter, yes; but it worked just fine. If you ever fired one, you'd know why the weight was a good thing.
And you really wouldn't have liked the MK VII...(Also available in 9...)
Cheers, TF

9mmepiphany
September 21, 2009, 09:35 PM
There was nothing compromised about the sight radius; shorter, yes; but it worked just fine. If you ever fired one, you'd know why the weight was a good thing.

i have fired one, that's how i know they're heavy for what they are.

would you like to address why they were designed to be thumb cocked on the draw?...that's just wrong :(

Storm
September 21, 2009, 11:20 PM
If the shortened sight radius has any effect on accuracy it is insignificant and irrelevant. The CM is far more than accurate enough for its intended purpose.

Prosser
September 22, 2009, 02:01 AM
At SD distances you are focused on pretty much the front sight, period.
Without a grip safety, carrying condition one doesn't really work well. I tried it, and, it's not comforting grabbing the gun, and finding that the safety has somehow worked it's way off, and, you are 2-5 pounds from firing the gun.

The gun is safe to carry with a round in the chamber, hammer down, condition 2, at least according to the State of Kali, the new guns passed the drop test.

Carrying condition two cuts down the hammer sticking out, making the print of the gun even smaller, and, reducing a sharp edge, either a beavertail sticking out, or, the beavertail and the hammer. This makes the CM much easier to carry then a 1911 shorty carried Condition one.

Works for me...

Also, you can shoot this gun a LOT, without stuff happening to it...

9mmepiphany
September 22, 2009, 02:38 AM
Without a grip safety, carrying condition one doesn't really work well

you mean like the Sig SAO, HK45/P30, CZ75 or Browning Hi-Power?

Prosser
September 22, 2009, 08:09 AM
Just try the thumb safety on the Detonics, and get back to me...

dogngun
September 22, 2009, 09:43 AM
They also made a small .45 ACP. They were the OLD Star, went out of business years ago. You can still find the guns from time to time . but the mags are just about impossible to get.
I have owned sevral Star pistols in the past, and they were great quality guns.

mark

Storm
September 22, 2009, 11:36 AM
Llama also made a subcompact, the Minimax. I had one, emphasis on the word had.

Thx
September 22, 2009, 12:51 PM
Hi all,

I am a total noob, but I've been researching the CZ 2075 RAMI. It is 6.6 inches long and 4.7 inches high:

http://www.gunshopfinder.com/CZ/2075rami.asp

http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-2075-rami

It has a frame-mounted SA manual safety on the frame for C&L mode, flip down to fire.

For DA mode, there is no external safety.

I was thinking of buying this as my first gun, but the Beretta 92FS seems like a better (full-size) choice for me due to the positive DS safety/SA decocker and bigger size/weight with less recoil for learning to shoot! But the RAMI is a beautiful handgun.

~Thx

AJChenMPH
September 23, 2009, 12:19 PM
Thx: welcome. Not sure if you're new to internet forums, but the "search" feature here works really well. I just searched for "rami" and came up with a bunch of threads -- the pertinent ones here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=472588

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=472771

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=473598

Also, this is a thread for subcompact 1911's, not subcompacts in general. ;)

TenDriver: again, I know zilch about the SA EMPs, but apparently there is some discontent out there, despite the premium price tag:

http://forum.pafoa.org/pistols-41/72931-emp-opinions.html

Thx
September 23, 2009, 01:33 PM
Hi,

My bad on the RAMI post -- looks like a sub-compact 1911 to my noob eyes!

The search feature works great, now that I found it! Thanks for the tip.

~Thx

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