Pet Peeve about guys who carry and dont seem to realize they are wearing a gun.


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kd7nqb
September 18, 2009, 03:43 AM
So as I mentioned in prior posts I work for a security company, yep mall ninja right here. Anyway my company has both and armed and an unarmed division based on what you do and what site you are working. In addition are supervisors and our vehicle based patrol guys are armed.

Some of the armed guys wear a full duty belt with ASP, OC, cuffs, ect others just wear a gun and maybe an extra mag or 2.

What really bugs me and I see this not only in my company but in others as well and even in the LEO community.

There is a certain percentage of guys who seem to not even notice that they are wearing a gun. The number of times I have seen holsters wacked into car doors, lunch counters, door frames or whatever. I guess this is really bugging me. Now I understand that some accidental bumps are going to happen but it just seems like if your going to carry a gun openly at least remember that its there.

This past week this really got to me when I watched an armored car guy get out of the truck with a belt that was obviously pretty loose allowing his gun to hang significantly off his body. As he walked into the store there was a pretty solid THWACK as he ran his glock into the door frame.

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novaDAK
September 18, 2009, 04:36 AM
I'll admit I've whacked my gun into the steering wheel when getting out of my vehicle, and into a wall when I first started carrying. But I've learned to watch what I'm doing and it stopped happening. Now I naturally keep my strong arm over my handgun when traversing close quarters, also helps protect against gun grabs.

But it still bothers me when I see people with their guns/holsters flopping around. Get a proper gun belt and decent holster and it won't happen. When they aren't 'secure' it looks sloppy as well.

Dimis
September 18, 2009, 02:55 PM
the occasional bump is one thing but what about the guys that are unaware of there surroundings like the guys that open carry and get sloppy about handgun assurence (placing a part of your arm etc on the top of the gun so you know its still there) ive seen tons of civilian open carriers that dont bother protecting there firearm from other people if your carrying in public your responsible for your gun police officers hold there belts with there forarm on the gun so its less likely for someone to go for it also keeping distance from others is a good insurence policy and you dont lift your arms over your head unless your seperated from others ive seen so many people not take precaution that there gun can be taken from them

average_shooter
September 18, 2009, 03:12 PM
the occasional bump is one thing but what about the guys that are unaware of there surroundings like the guys that open carry and get sloppy about handgun assurence (placing a part of your arm etc on the top of the gun so you know its still there) ive seen tons of civilian open carriers that dont bother protecting there firearm from other people if your carrying in public your responsible for your gun police officers hold there belts with there forarm on the gun so its less likely for someone to go for it also keeping distance from others is a good insurence policy and you dont lift your arms over your head unless your seperated from others ive seen so many people not take precaution that there gun can be taken from them

Holy run-on-sentence, Batman! :eek:

I don't tend to touch my carry if OC-ing, because I have forced myself to get used to not touching it when I CC. Plus, even something as innocuous as grabbing and shifting my belt might look like a draw to someone catching it out of the corner of their eye. Not to mention putting my arm on it might be difficult as I tend to carry at the 5-o'clock body position, and leaning or putting my arm on it gets to be a real pain in the waist.

I guess the whole "not realizing they are carrying" thing doesn't really bother me unless the gun falls out of the holster or they ding my car with it. They can knock it against the company truck all they want as far as I'm concerned.

damien
September 18, 2009, 03:16 PM
This isn't just about guns, but about carrying things in general and the image of the size and shape of your body in your mind. They won't let people wear bags and backpacks into museums for this very reason. You forget you are wearing it and bump into things you normally wouldn't bump into.

Kimber45acp
September 18, 2009, 03:28 PM
This past week this really got to me when I watched an armored car guy get out of the truck with a belt that was obviously pretty loose allowing his gun to hang significantly off his body. As he walked into the store there was a pretty solid THWACK as he ran his glock into the door frame.And it didn't go off? It should have gone off since it doesn't have a manual safety (according to Plaxico and the Bradys). :D

Don't be hatin' on people who carry loosely. I can't be the only one who doesn't want to cinch the belt up as tight as it was before the trip to the restroom.

mljdeckard
September 18, 2009, 03:39 PM
Just speaking in general, your gun is a survival tool. You should treat it like a delicate instrument, even though some are much tougher than others. Especially over a long timeframe, where you carry it for years, and beat it up a lot, it is unreasonable to expect it to function correctly when you need it.

Clipper
September 18, 2009, 05:02 PM
So what? Or are these your guns. And if the occasional bump makes your gun unreliable, you're definately carrying the wrong gun...

THE DARK KNIGHT
September 18, 2009, 05:21 PM
I see exactly where you are coming from kd7nqb.

I work as an armored car guard. Our company regulations clearly state that you may only carry one firearm and two spare magazines or speedloaders. Doesn't stop the mall ninja crowd here from bringing their ASP batons, OC, handcuffs (sometimes multiple pairs), etc. it's ridiculous. We issue S&W 65 revolvers to people who don't own their own guns. Their general gun handling habits and way they treat and wear and the handle the gun is pathetic to say the least.

Erik M
September 18, 2009, 05:47 PM
Sounds as if the 'clueless' individuals dont recieve much awareness training, if any type of training at all.This is the picture this thread paints for me.

So, you want to work for an armored car service and/or armed security service, a job that will potentially put your life in danger? Never owned or fired a gun? Well here's one out of the back room, have fun out there and be safe.

THE DARK KNIGHT
September 18, 2009, 06:00 PM
So, you want to work for an armored car service and/or armed security service, a job that will potentially put your life in danger? Never owned or fired a gun? Well here's one out of the back room, have fun out there and be safe.

Sadly, that is exactly how our company (and all of our competitors) operate. The majority of our armored guards (4 out of 5 or so) do not own guns or know about them at all, and their only experience ever firing a handgun (or any gun) in their entire life were the 50 shots to "qualify" when applying for a gun carrying permit.

These companies do not view the gun as a tool to defend the guard's life. They do not care about the individual's life in a crisis. The gun, to corporate, is merely a "talisman" that makes the guard look official, or intimidating, to people. They simply (and correctly) assume that most people will assume that the guard will shoot them if they try and rob the truck. Because most people, especially in places like NJ, have no idea how the self defense laws work or know anything about guns. They just see the guy has a gun and money and assume if you mess with him he's some trained guy that will take you out.

It works well, unfortunately. But every so often the run into someone who does not assume such things and the story is always tragic.

D94R
September 19, 2009, 12:40 AM
the guys that open carry and get sloppy about handgun assurence (placing a part of your arm etc on the top of the gun so you know its still there)

Assume what you will, I however do this for other reasons.
It's not to reassure my gun is there, it's to make sure when in crowds or busy lines somewhere that I have full control over my firearm. I don't have 360 degree vision, and situational awareness does not guarantee you know everything that everyone within arms range is doing 100% of the time. No I don't grab the gun with my hands, but yes I do an occasional rest of my forearm on the back of the gun, usually when holding something in front of me. And yes, I carry in a level II Blackhawk Serpa holster. I'm not worried about a gun snatch. However, if I could predict everyones actions, I'd never have to carry in the first place.

Simply going about mentally reassuring yourself you are still in full control of your liability because you don't want to look like a "sloppy gun carrier" by brushing it occasionally carries it's own fault when dealing with firearm safety.

45Badger
September 19, 2009, 08:27 AM
So what? I'm with him:neener:

Really, i think it's a control freak non-issue. I don't think I'm a sloppy carrier, but have on occasion whacked my gun into a kitchen counter (similar to whacking my head on cabinet:D). At show last weekend, I guy turned around in front of the table and his elbow whacked by gun. No big deal...........

Speedo66
September 19, 2009, 10:30 AM
After you carry a gun for so many years, at least in my case, you tend to forget about it to a certain extent as far as spatial relationship. And yes, I have bumped it into filing cabinets while working in the office.

On the other hand, when I was outside my safe office environment, I was very much aware of it and took extreme care to keep it away from other people.

I did things such as blading the gun away from others, getting last into a crowded elevator and facing others with my back to the door, and at times having my hand on the butt when in a crowded situation. Don't just rely on a Level 3 holster to protect you, others know all the releases too.

Many peace officers are shot with their own guns and I was very concerned about firearms retention.

Double Naught Spy
September 19, 2009, 11:06 AM
There is a certain percentage of guys who seem to not even notice that they are wearing a gun. The number of times I have seen holsters wacked into car doors, lunch counters, door frames or whatever. I guess this is really bugging me. Now I understand that some accidental bumps are going to happen but it just seems like if your going to carry a gun openly at least remember that its there.

It bothers me too, but to a much greater extreme...body parts. If you are going to have body parts, you need to remember they are there. There is no reason your hand, foot, elbow, or head should ever bump into anything. Come on folks! Those are things that have been with you your entire lives. There is just no excuse for bumping your head for crying out loud. It is where you have the greatest concentration of sensory organs (sight, sound, touch, smell, and taste) and so should be the one area of the body LEAST likely to be bumped and yet we see it all the time. Why?

Maybe people forget they are wearing their heads?

doc2rn
September 19, 2009, 11:31 AM
If its not your firearm why would it bother you if he banged it gettin out of an armoured car. I did that for an entire summer in college and I can tell ya they dont issue stuff that fits.

longbeard48
September 19, 2009, 11:39 AM
If how other people take care of their stuff bothered me that much, I would consider myself anal.

kd7nqb
September 19, 2009, 01:44 PM
In response to the people who say "if its not your gun down worry" I guess for me its about image. We as gun owners need all the positive public image we can get and this type of activity does not help our image. I am not trying to be anal just saying that if your going to carry a deadly weapon treat it with a little respect now and then.

Double Naught Spy
September 19, 2009, 07:47 PM
And if you are going to carry your head around, treat it with respect as well. Otherwise, leave it at home or risk making the rest of us head owners look bad!

We as gun owners need all the positive public image we can get and this type of activity does not help our image.

Okay, here is the problem, you have confused security personnel and cops with gun owners. While some security types and cops are gun owners, many are not. The gun is just a tool they have to have with them as part of the job.

Now, are you worried about the image of gun owners or cops and security people. Last I heard, the general public does not confuse themselves with the cops and security people.

Firethorn
September 19, 2009, 08:50 PM
I mostly bang into stuff just because I'm a clutz, doesn't matter if I have a hip holster or not, I bang my hip fairly frequently.

D94R
September 19, 2009, 09:30 PM
Bumping a gun into a door jam, counter top, parking meter etc portrays no more of an image of being a sloppy gun owner than people tripping over uneven concrete portrays them as a gimp.

General Geoff
September 19, 2009, 09:33 PM
My gun occasionally hits stuff, maybe once or twice a week (I open carry every day). Usually on the door frame of my vehicle or a counter top at home. It's just part of being armed. I am more cautious in public and haven't bumped my gun into anything in many months, in a public place.

Erik
September 21, 2009, 01:55 AM
Personally, when it comes to COing (LEO, security, or otherwise) folks banging their pistols into things I am more concerned about the things they are banging them into than the pistols. Imagine that it was you door frame, wall, car, furniture, etc for a moment. Care about his stocks or sight? Me neither.

jdub3
September 21, 2009, 02:02 AM
Dang double naught, you never bump your head, or your elbow or stub your toe? I tend to do it when I am distracted or getting out of unfamiliar cars. I try to look on the bright-side and consider bumping my head and opportunity to fine-tune my cursing skills. :)

D!rty H@rry
September 21, 2009, 06:19 AM
some people just shouldnt carry guns.

Glasstream15
September 21, 2009, 10:22 AM
I don't OC, it's illegal in Florida.

But I can relate to bumping things. I spent 30 years as a welding inspector on major construction projects. I know exactly where my head is and I never bump it. But I had to wear a hard hat. And I never, even after 30 years, learned exactly where it is. I constantly bumped it, sometimes to the point of almost having a disastrous fall.

So I can see someone occasionally bumping things with a hip carried gun. It just happens.

ny32182
September 21, 2009, 12:29 PM
If you carry something every day you are going to bump it from time to time, be it a flashlight, gun, anything else on your Batman utility belt, or your body parts for that matter... It is a carry gun; a tool, as long as the sights don't get out of whack it doesn't really bother me.

As far as resting my arm/hand/whatever on the gun to make sure it is there? No, I do not do that. Maybe I would if I were OCing in a crowd, but I don't do that either. This is one of the two primary advantages of CC as far as I'm concerned: the possibility of a "gun grab" is virtually non-existant.

Double Naught Spy
September 22, 2009, 12:06 AM
Dang double naught, you never bump your head, or your elbow or stub your toe? I tend to do it when I am distracted or getting out of unfamiliar cars. I try to look on the bright-side and consider bumping my head and opportunity to fine-tune my cursing skills.

Right. I have never bumped me head, arm, elbow, toe, etc. I have total situational awareness down to the micron of the location of my physical being within my surroundings as well as knowing the locations of all things, stationary and moving, within my immediate and nearby environments.

As per the original kd7nqb's concerns, I have respect for myself as a deadly weapon (hence the 00 code name). I just feel if that we are going to take a rant of such significance and apply it to only one aspect of the deadly force system (as deadly weapons such as guns only operate via the biological sensory and deployment system), then we are missing the oh-so critical biological portion of the deadly force continuum that must be showed the same, if not more concern than is being mentioned.

To express such concern over bumpage to just the firearm aspect of the system without concern for the biological aspect is naive and just plain silly.

Or maybe such concern over bumpage by other people is just plain silly in and of itself. Ya think? The notion that if a guy bumps his gun on a door frame is some how a poor reflection on all gun owners is just blowing things WAAAAY out of proportion. It may be a less than ideal reflection of that person as a gun carrier (as you don't know that the person owns the gun, necessarily), but it doesn't represent all gun owners anymore than a bad guy robbing a bank with a gun is a reflection on all gun owners.

searcher451
September 22, 2009, 05:38 PM
How about "bumping" your finger into the trigger when you think that the gun you are carrying is unloaded and you in front of a bunch of kids in a classroom?

http://release.theplatform.com/content.select?pid=EX_6PuwELuJWKtKomP81MxIl4teo441k&UserName=Unknown

There's nothing funny about this, of course, except that it makes me howl every time I see it. :)

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