[Snakum]

I finally got time to pattern my 18" 870 Talo with cylinder bore and no choke to see whether or not I'd need a barrel change to use it as an HD weapon and for hunting deer with slugs (and later for turkeys with possibly 3" magnum #4 shot). Of all the 00 buck loads I tried, it seems the old standby/Wally World Special Remington 2 3/4 00 buck works best in this particular gun. I set up a target with a 24x24 cardboard center and fired each round first at 25 yards, which I assumed would be the end of my 'B Zone'.

Placing the stock bead site right on top of the receiver so that only the bead was showing, and putting the bead dead center of the target, the Remington 2 3/4 buck kept all nine in a tall rectangle roughly 18" tall by 14" wide. I found I could keep 80% of the shot in the 24x24 square out to 30 yards. Very nice. The Winchester and US Army issue 2 3/4 00 buck ran about 15 yards for 100% thru 20 yards for 80%.

I next tried the Wally World Remington 2 3/4 Sluggers from 50 and 75 yards. Simply kneeling and firing off an extended bipod - just like I'll be hunting with it - I found that putting the bead dead center at 50 yards gave me 2" groups about 3" right of the target center. At 75 yards I held the bead just over the target center and darn near punched the same two holes. Not bad. Shoots a little right, or I'm pulling it a little. I'm shooting off a simple bipod, though. Who knows? Benched, it would shoot a lot better, I'm sure.

Regardless, I'm sticking with the stock barrel for now as it seems to do everything I need with the Wally World Remington loads. Next week I'm going to try some different slugs, but I'll stay loaded with the Remington buck for HD. That's pretty good stuff. :D

Thanks everybody for all the advice, especially Lee. You guys are the bestest! :cool:

[AcceptableUserName]

which brands of 00 did you try, out of curiosity?

[Snakum]

Just the Winchester Super X and the US Army brown box, both 2 3/4 #00, 9 pellets. They patterned so closely together I wonder if the Army uses the Winchester Super X for issue buck.

[Snakum]

Shot the Remington Slugger 2 3/4 1 oz. slugs for groups today. I'm quite impressed that the 18.5" cylinder bore barrel shot 2" groups at 50 yards and 4" groups at 100 yards just using a folding chair and bipod. Looks like I'm getting about a 5" drop at 100 yards, so I'm holding 'two beads higher than the bull' to keep it in the black. I still want to try the high velocity 7/8 oz. sluggers, but these 1 oz. shells are pretty impresive. It'll be nice for white tails this fall. :)

[AcceptableUserName]

You should match up the Remington with better stuff like the Federal and Hornady. I think the Winchester is good stuff overall, but it has a pretty dramatic spread and would be a special purpose buckshot...like room clearing in a combat zone. Definitely bnot something I'd want in the home.

[rcmodel]

I wonder if the Army uses the Winchester Super X for issue buck. They sure used too anyway.

I still have a few Vietnam era Super-X in red cases I liberated from Uncle Sugar in 1969.

rc

[Snakum]

This week I added 3" magnum 00 Buck from Remington, Federal Premium 2 3/4" 00 Buckshot, more Winchester 2 3/4" Super X 00 Buckshot, more Army surplus 00 Buckshot, and Federal Premium 2 3/4 slugs (Foster-type). I have now observed the following:

00 BUCK
- Remington 3" magnum buck kicks like a rabid mule but will maintain a decent 30 x 30 pattern 60 - 80% of pellets) out to almost 50 yards. The pain isn't worth it, though. :D

- Win Super X and US Army 00 Buck really are the same thing and are suitable only for clearing a room with it's very wide spread.

- Federal Premium 00 Buckshot ran close to the Remington 2 3/4" 00 Buckshot and will hold a good pattern to about 25 yards or better.

SLUGS
- Federal Premium 2 3/4" Foster-type slugs shot much closer to point of aim at 50 yards and under than the Remington Sluggers. Group sizes were similar at 3 - 5 inches at 50 yards, though.

- Federal Premium 2 3/4" slugs shoot high at 100 yards. Weird. I expected the groups to drop rather than climb.

- Shooting Remington 2 3/4" Sluggers at 100 yards results in a VERY high point of impact. Again, I expected the groups to drop at that range, but they were WAY high. Weird. :(


When shooting the slugs at 100 yards, I am holding the weapon and looking down the barrel in a manner that allows me to see only the bead, which I hold just below center of the target (to allow for the published bullet drop). But most of the first two or three salvos flew right over the top of the target. Am I missing something (besides the target :D )? This doesn't make sense.

[Snakum]

So, for now, my shotgun load-out is ...

Five rounds of Remington 2 3/4" 00 buckshot in the tube - leaving room to load and jack wide-spreading Army surplus buckshot for room clearing or close in fighting, or loading slugs for long-distance shots or shooting thru cover.

Three rounds of US Army/Win 00 buckshot in the sling.

Five rounds of Remington 2 3/4" 00 buckshot in the sling.

Five rounds of Federal Premium 2 3/4" Foster-type slugs in the sling.

An empty slot is left between the three types of loads on the sling to help me quickly differentiate when reloading under fire or when running drills.

Next up is a scope mount and a reflex sight. Running a reflext sight on my AKs has spoiled me, big time. I think it'd work great on my Thumper, as well. Fast on target and quite accurate.

[RSVP2RIP]

Just an observation, having three different types of ammunition would lead to confusion if I were you. I think having two types of crimped mouth shotshells would get mixed up during a high stress situation in the dark. Anyways, I can't think of a situation where I would want to have a "spreader" load on a fighting shotgun for HD/SD purposes. I'm not going to spray n' pray my own house. Just my opinion/observation though

[arizona98tj]

I think the Winchester is good stuff overall, but it has a pretty dramatic spread and would be a special purpose buckshot...like room clearing in a combat zone. Definitely bnot something I'd want in the home.

The OP was patterning those rounds at 25 and 30 yards.

How many 25 yards shots do you get inside the home? ( I suppose more than expected if one lives in a barn? ) :)

For evaluating rounds for HD, I would be more concerned with what my patterns looked like @ 5, 7, and 10 yds. Much anything past 10 yds/30 feet will probably be done outdoors.

[Snakum]

I've actually practiced loading the various rounds from the sling in low light and have gotten pretty good at grabbing just what I need. They're seperated on the belt just for that reason.

The Win/Army 00 was actually printing 100% only to 15 yards. And it seemed some rounds spread even worse than that. I could envision scenarios where a bigger spread might come in handy, not necessarily in the home.

It's been fun seeing what this stuff will do. The only times I used a shotgun in real world situations (pn the Army and as a civilian contractor) I was issued 24" barreled 870s and US Army buck, or 20" (?) S&W 3000s and issued something they called "Malaysia Loads" using one or two 000 balls surrounded by a few #4 shot (iirc).

[RSVP2RIP]

How many 25 yards shots do you get inside the home?

I was wondering why the different types would be "mixed" together. I understand that zombie attacks would warrant a less tight pattern, but for in the home/outside the home I think you would want as tight a pattern as possible not just because of pellets getting by, but to get the most pellets you can into the target. It would be better to me to just put more of the remingtons in the sling that is being taken up with the winchesters. I can't think of any legitimate reason I would have to need more spread. Thats just me though.

[Fred Fuller]

Ammo on a shotgun sling is bad juju. The weight of that loaded-down sling swinging under the gun will pull you off target on fast moving snap shots.

Optics on normally stocked shotguns are bad juju too. You're going to have to get the comb up high enough to get your eye behind the sight while maintaining a cheek weld, or 1) you'll never be able to find the sight in a hurry and 2) no cheek weld means it's hard to hit anything with the gun.

KISS is for shotguns... keep it fast and light, don't weigh it down and over-complicate it.

YMMV of course...

lpl

[hardluk1]

Snakum Keep an eye out for a long barrel that you can change for just hunting as the long full choke or change choke barrels will increase your ability to drop deer deer and turkey at longer yardage than most will believe. I am not much on turkey but a buddy has a older mossy that will drop a load of turkey shot out to 40 yards with a 85% patern in 16" and for me and 1 buck an a full chock and the right 1 buck will kill deer where they stand at , a, yardage well over twice what you hope for with a cylinder bore and 00 buck. You are one of the few that take the time to pattern a shotgun. Most all i know that hunted in the everglades could kill deer out to 100yards and do it placeing some what more than half a load of 1 buck in a deer. But some brands of shot in a given gun would not hit a garage door at that distance. So got to try most of them as you know.

[Snakum]

I sling up with the shells primarily toward the rear swivel - leaving about 12" of plain canvas under the front swivel, which mitigates the weight/pull somewhat. I've gotten used to it and running drills for 3-gun it's not bad. I have the three round types separated on the sling and have gotten pretty good at grabbing the specific round I need in low light conditions. And when reloading I just pull the sling upward while rotating the gun counter clockwise, and strip and load the shells. I'm getting pretty quick at it.

About the reflex sight, I have gotten so used to them on my AKs I think they'd be perfect for a combat shotgun. But I didn't consider the cheek weld requirements. Thanks for the heads up. I'll see what I can find out.

I planned initially to run a 21' barrel with Rem Chokes on this gun, but the 18.5 has proven good enough so far. When turkey season gets here I'll definitely be looking for a longer barrel, though.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Much appreciated! :)

[Snakum]

Oh ... and 3-gun matches are a perfect way to practice for zombie attacks. :D


(Actually, I am an on-again/off-again civilian security contractor.)

[stiab]

For deer hunting you might want to try some #1 buck loads. See the thread over on the hunting secton about 00 buck.