What's wrong with Remington 597


PDA






DIM
September 19, 2009, 03:26 PM
I bought Remington 597 model in 22 LR few years ago just for plinking, it came as a scope combo, since then I tried many different ammo, but it never grouped good, so I changed scope and took it out to the range today and it still produce same groups, here is picture of 100 yard group.

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8285/remington597.jpg

here is picture of 25 yard group all shots were done from the bench with gun rest

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/7627/remington59725.jpg

If you enjoyed reading about "What's wrong with Remington 597" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
dispatch55126
September 19, 2009, 03:35 PM
You can rule out the ammo and scope so you're down to the weather and rifle. Assuming the winds were calm, check the crown to make sure there isn't any damage.

DIM
September 19, 2009, 03:40 PM
No damage to the crown the wind was mild with gusts 10 mph, the 25 yard group was done out of clean barrel, however I did shoot my .308 today here is 300 yard shot group clean barrel…

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9076/tc300g.jpg

rcmodel
September 19, 2009, 03:41 PM
Well, it appears your 100 yard group is stringing sideways, which is to be expected if there is any cross wind.

But your 25 yard group appears to be stringing more vertically.

Any chance it is you?

In otherwords, can you shoot tiny groups with other rifles?
(You shot a 3-shot group with the .308. Whats a 6 or 10 shot group like the .22 from the .308 look like?)

rc

Uncle Mike
September 19, 2009, 03:44 PM
Bet it's that horrendous 12lb trigger Remington has blessed the 597's with.

Most of those 597's will group pretty good IF you can get past the trigger pull.

DIM
September 19, 2009, 03:44 PM
Here is 3 shot group 100 yards with .308

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/482/img014u.jpg

DIM
September 19, 2009, 03:52 PM
The average of 3 shot groups with .308 at 100 yards is 0.3" last week on calm day it was 0.15, but never tried 10 shot groups with .308, I guess it could be the trigger, my .308 is set to 3lbs, but this is not new riffle I tried to group it for past 3 years with no luck... I guess I need to make 3 shot groups just to prove my point at 100 yards it will be like 6 - 8 "group especially first shot doesn't matter cold or warm barrel, when I have to pull back the action to load 1st bullet.

I'll add 5 shot group made at 50 yards

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5329/remington59750.jpg



I don't have any problem with grouping using 10-22 from Ruger or Mark II from Savage with the Savage iron sights at 25 yards I make one hole group 5 shots, but this Remington is just ridiculous.

DIM
September 19, 2009, 07:25 PM
I got it; this Remington requires special loading tool described in this thread by Maverick223 what an eye opener

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5862825&highlight=remington+loading+tool#post5862825

Thanks for the help

Runningman
September 19, 2009, 07:48 PM
If that that 25 yard group is typical of that 22 rifle than you have joined Remingtons bum 22 RF barrel club. Sometime after my Remington 541T was built in the mid 90s. Remington seems to have forgot how to consistently turn out decent 22 RF barrels. In this decade I have bought new not so cheap 572 pump and a 597 that shot horrible at 50 yards( over 3" + groups). And another 597 HB LS that does so so (1 1/4" ) nothing great especially for a HB.

Watched a buddy get real frustrated with a expensive Remington 504 bolt action 22 about five years ago. After he spent over $650 dollars on it with good match ammo the best it would do is 1 1/2" - 1 3/4" at 50 yards. And over 2" groups were not uncommon with bulk ammo.

Compare these to my mid 90s Remington 541T it shoots .375 - .700, 5 shot groups at 50 yards all the time. Or and older 1980s Remington 552 that I own that shoot 1" - 1 1/4" groups 5 shot groups @ 50 yards all the time.

rangerruck
September 19, 2009, 11:29 PM
does yours have open sights? if so, use them at 25 yds, to eliminate the possiblility of the scope being the problem. next thing to do, make sure your front action takedown screw is torqued down at about 2o to 25 lbs. next thing to do, is get some aluminum tape, and make some finger bandaid sized slices. lay about 2 or 3 slices on top of each other, then stick them inside the bottom of the stock where the action fits down into; on the bottom, the front , the rear, the sides, of the action area. this will make it nice and snug, and keep from moving the rifle around inside the stock, between shots. next thing to do, is the sand out the stock channel, and make absolutely sure, the bbl is free floated. after all this, if it still does this, then you have a bad bbl/chamber.
Also, it proly doesn't have the best of triggers, go over to rimfirecentral.com, and go to the remington thread, and look at the 597 sub thread, and read the sticky at the top, to improve your trigger.

Maverick223
September 19, 2009, 11:39 PM
Thanks for the helpNP :neener: , have you tried using premium ammo (Eley or other match grade)...that group looks like a bulk pack grouping. If that doesn't work (or perhaps even if it does) I would consider a trigger job. :)

DIM
September 19, 2009, 11:40 PM
Hmm thanks, I didn’t try to bed it yet but as far as free floating I checked it few years back and with sand paper made sure it floats freely, I will try the aluminum tape, maybe I’ll just pure some epoxy, also this thing keeps jamming every 4 -5 shots. And Rem 597 scope combo doesn't have iron sights

DIM
September 19, 2009, 11:44 PM
NP :neener: , have you tried using premium ammo (Eley or other match grade)...that group looks like a bulk pack grouping. If that doesn't work (or perhaps even if it does) I would consider a trigger job. :)

During this 3 some years I tried all kind of different ammo; it doesn't take gold bullets to group ok at 25 yards...
I think I'll pass on trigger job; maybe I'll trade it and get TC or Savage in 22 LR

Maverick223
September 20, 2009, 12:02 AM
I think that you might be better served by a Savage Mk. II for target use (over the Remmy, not the T/C, which I have no experience with). Good luck, Mav. :)

DIM
September 20, 2009, 02:30 AM
I went to the TC site and they got advertising on rimfire 0.5” groups at 50 yards, not bad if they can guarantee this, Savage doesn’t guarantee anything on their rimfire riffles

Maverick223
September 20, 2009, 02:41 AM
I still like the Savage...it has proved itself to be a very accurate rimfire at a pretty decent price, but I have no experience with the T/C so it may very well be a better rifle. :)

DIM
September 20, 2009, 03:09 AM
I just checked prices on TC and its like 450 bucks for 22 LR, I think I'll get Savage or Ruger instead or just add few more bucks and buy Varmint A4 from Rock River Arms, but that's .223

Maverick223
September 20, 2009, 03:44 AM
Ruger is probably your best bet for an autoloading .22lr target rifle. :)

Uncle Mike
September 20, 2009, 02:31 PM
Ruger is probably your best bet for an autoloading .22lr target rifle.

I disagree!

As for out of the box, unmodified, unbox it, load it and go there are more than a few brands that tend to spank Ruger 10/22's in the accuracy department.

What exactly makes a .22 target rifle...simply the weight of the barrel...not!
Internals, chamber, bore tolerances, it goes on. The Ruger has nothing in these departments that are target or competition class.

Nice, that one can swap barrels and trigger groups on the 10/22, but if your not going to do these kinds of upgrades on the 10/22, then makers such as Marlin, Savage and even the 597, if you can get by the trigger, will often time out shoot the 10/22 as far as group size...all variables equal.

I had high hopes for the TC R-55 .22 auto loader, with its steel receiver and threaded in barrel I thought it was going to be the hot steaming deal but.... maybe the barrels are crap?

Maverick223
September 20, 2009, 02:44 PM
Nice, that one can swap barrels and trigger groups on the 10/22, but if your not going to do these kinds of upgrades on the 10/22, then makers such as Marlin, Savage and even the 597, if you can get by the trigger, will often time out shoot the 10/22 as far as group size...all variables equal.Agreed, but if you are going to put a little money into it to make it into a target rifle, it is a good platform due to the aftermarket support. If left in factory configuration, it is not a great choice IMO. :)

DIM
September 20, 2009, 09:08 PM
Well I think I got the answer, yes there is a riffle maker with out box accuracy, Anschutz is the name, for 1500 bucks you can get very nice 22 LR shooter :rolleyes:

http://www.championshooters.com/1808msbig.htm

That's why I'm thinking of "Varmint A4" from Rock River Arms

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=228

its 3/4 MOA guaranteed

PT1911
September 20, 2009, 09:13 PM
get a Kimber 82... shrink the groups quick.

Maverick223
September 20, 2009, 09:38 PM
Wait when you say .22 do you mean any .22? That rock river is a .223 unless I missed something, and there are scores of 0.5MOA centerfire .22s out there. I would keep the .22lr for plinking, and go with a turn-bolt (or precision AR if that floats your boat) .223 or .22-250 for a nice tack driver in .22cal. if that is what you want. Just remember that the price of ammo with escalate exponentially if you decide to go with centerfire. :)

DIM
September 20, 2009, 09:40 PM
Kimber 22 that's another 1K +, for 22 doesn't sound right... I usually don't use 22, I shoot 30 caliber riffles for target practice, I keep my 22 at my fathers place when I'm visiting we shoot competition, he shoots his Ruger 10-22 and I my 597 and he usually wins...
Looks like CZ makes 452 model in 22 LR and 22 WMR, another thing I might check, or maybe just stick to 597 I donít care if I loose to my dad :D

DIM
September 20, 2009, 09:49 PM
I reload all of my ammo which I use for target practice and hunting, yes the prices on everything gone up powder, primers, bullets etc, but reloading is the only means to enjoy long range shooting which 22 LR is not capable. Getting in .223 I thought about it, a can use most of the powders which I use on .308 and switching to .223 will save me a bit money, since it uses less powder and bullets are cheaper then for 30 caliber, then I will leave my 308 for hunting and use .223 or 22 Ė 250 for target practice

Maverick223
September 20, 2009, 10:05 PM
A .22-250 will use nearly as much powder as your .308, but projectiles will be cheaper. The .223 is likely our best bet in centerfire unless you want to reach out a bit further (and you won't notice much difference till about 250 yds.). The CZ 452 (in .22LR) is also a very nice rifle and will be much cheaper to shoot. Personally I would rather have a tack driver in .22LR/WM (or .17HMR/M2) than a intermediate cartridge (small centerfire). That way you can shoot little holes close really inexpensively, or pick up the large caliber precision rifle to make really small groups a long way away...but that is just ME, get what makes YOU happy, Mav. :)

DIM
September 20, 2009, 10:32 PM
After testing loads at 100 yards I usually start at 300 if I can group them below 1” I work my way to 500 yards, in reality 223 or 22-250 is not what I’m looking for to shoot at 500 yards +, .338 is a better choice, but this thread was about simple 597 Remington and why it is spiting bullets, I will defiantly try to put some aluminum tape and see if it make a difference. Thanks for the help, as far as 338 I have my eyes on .338 lapua, but it will take twice more powder and .338 bullets are not cheap

Maverick223
September 20, 2009, 11:09 PM
Thanks for the help, as far as 338 I have my eyes on .338 lapua, but it will take twice more powder and .338 bullets are not cheapNo problem, and darn right, I decided to go with a .300WM and step it up to a .338LM later on if/when I wanted to reach out a little further. :)

PT1911
September 21, 2009, 09:59 AM
1 K+? maybe for one in awesome shape, i picked one up used recently for $325 OTD... hell available "new" from CMP for 600 I believe... that is on the pricey side, but still not 1000+

husker
September 21, 2009, 11:03 AM
to get back on topic. i have a 597 bought new last thanks giving. I know im going to get heckled. But the best ammo for the gun is the $1.75 a box REM Thunder Bolt. Never jams with it either.Whats been threw the 597.= Fed 40gr.solids,FED BULK,WIN 37gr HP,WIN bulk,
CCI mini mag,velocitor & 32gr. stingers. & the best 2 are THUNDER BOLT & CCI STINGERS
I have no prob making a quarter size hole with either ammo out to 50 yards. you cant ask for more out of a & 150 dollar gun. IMO

CZguy
September 21, 2009, 11:13 AM
husker,

No static from me. Each .22 likes different ammo............if yours likes Thunderbolts, so be it.

DIM
September 21, 2009, 08:44 PM
I tried Remington thunderbolts they spit and jam same way CCI or federal do, yesterday I tried CCI Stinger 32 grains and 1640 fps first 5 shot group walked up and to the left, the second group walked up and to the right and riffle jammed about 3 -4 times out of 10 shots. I guess I got lemon slip and yes I bought just like you did 3 years ago on black Friday :evil:

Uncle Mike
September 21, 2009, 10:30 PM
Call Remington...send back....offer to take the VP of quality control to dinner.

DIM
September 21, 2009, 11:18 PM
Maybe I should pay them a visit at Utica, if they let public in of course :D

orienteeer
September 21, 2009, 11:37 PM
just a suggestion: try cci minimags ROUND NOSE ONLY. sorry, you might just have a bad barrel.
i have had good results w/my rem 597. good luck. see photo - hope it's there!

http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x222/orienteeer/?action=view&current=20090605_2_inch_sq_target.jpg

p5200
September 21, 2009, 11:40 PM
I had 3 Marlin model 60's and they all shot better then any Rem. 597 I've ever shot. :)

SpeedAKL
September 22, 2009, 03:59 PM
Get a Savage, my Mk.II is very accurate and was a touch over $200 for a nicer version with the heavy barrel

greg531mi
September 24, 2009, 02:14 AM
Maybe I should pay them a visit at Utica, if they let public in of course

Them there 597 Remingtons are made in Kuntucky!!!!

DIM
September 24, 2009, 04:15 AM
Great... Utica is only 3 hour drive... I'm not driving to Kentucky, since I will burn more gas then the riffle worth :scrutiny:

CajunBass
September 24, 2009, 08:03 AM
Go over to RimfireCentral.com and ask the question in the Remington 597 subforum. You'll get advice there other than "get the same gun that I like." Those folks seem to know how to get a 597 to shoot and run pretty well.

junyo
September 24, 2009, 08:31 AM
...also this thing keeps jamming every 4 -5 shots.
I think you'll find that some 597 mags are very finicky, and don't seat well at all. Buddy of mine bought a 597 and was ready to toss it; but guy at the gun store said take some sandpaper to the mags and puff! Runs like a champ.

CZguy
September 24, 2009, 09:15 AM
Go over to RimfireCentral.com and ask the question in the Remington 597 subforum. You'll get advice there other than "get the same gun that I like." Those folks seem to know how to get a 597 to shoot and run pretty well.

Good advice, plus one.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=218

DIM
April 18, 2010, 08:12 AM
Yesterday I pulled out same 597 and gave it good cleaning, replaced scope on it, I had one from Rem 700 SPS varmint which came in the package it held 0.5 moa at 100 yards so I decide to try it on this 597 again, during my course of shooting I sighted at 20 yards where it had 1.5" spread then I tried 100 yards, I set target on regular A4 sized paper and fired 10 shots from which only 6 hit the paper, from the pattern on the target I would say 6 MOA but it was missing 4 shots which were outside of the target area so it could be 10 - 15 MOA as well.

If you enjoyed reading about "What's wrong with Remington 597" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!