Questions loading 45ACP and 200 gr LSWC


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Shrinkmd
September 19, 2009, 04:00 PM
I was loading some Dardascastbullets.com .452 200 gr LSWC and I had some problems with the case mouth getting crushed and torn. I am using a Hornady LNL and Hornady dies. I have loaded about 500 230 LRN without any problems on the settings I was using for belling the case mouth.

With the 200 gr SWC bullet the seating stem with the open end got stuck on the lead bullet and actually got yanked out of the die past that little retaining clip. I then cleaned everything out, and replaced the stem with the completely flat one. Instead of getting stuck, however, several times the seater die got stuck, and when I pushed past the resistance I saw that the case mouth was torn a bit. By very carefully placing the bullet flush on top of the case mouth prior to seating, it improved (but did not eliminate) this problem.

I did not have time today to bell the case mouths a bit more (I am using the LNLPTX die, and not Hornady's ones, so I can easily adjust for more), which I am assuming will correct this problem. Has anyone had this happen to them before seating 45 cal semi-wadcutters? Am I making sense here?

Also, on a related note, what load data is correct for these bullets? On page 382 of the Lyman manual, 49th edition, #452460 lists 3.5 to 5.6 for Bullseye, and bullet #452630 lists 4.9 to 6.0 for Bullseye. The data on the second one is similar to Hornady's data for their 200 gr SWC (actually theirs goes a little higher) The manual lists a seating depth of 1.235 or so for these. Does that sound about right?

Then, Alliant's website lists a max of 4.6 of Bullseye with the Speer 200 LSWC. I have heard that the Speer bullets are soft lead, and that #2 Alloy bullets (the dardas are Brinnell Hardness 18-20, which are the same as #2 I believe) can be driven a bit harder.

Help! I enjoyed the 230 LRN bullets, but now I am moving on to something else and having lots of problems and questions...

Thanks!

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rcmodel
September 19, 2009, 04:29 PM
With flat base lead bullets it is necessary to bell the mouth enough so you can easily start the bullets in the cases by hand. I like to get them in far enough I can pick them out of the loading block without the case & powder charge falling off the bullet base.

I think that will cure your problem with the torn cases.

Don't know what to tell you about the Hornady seating die issue, but I would use the one that fits the bullet nose so it seats centered.
The flat one will allow the bullet to go south on you if it isn't started in the case perfectly straight.

rc

Walkalong
September 19, 2009, 05:10 PM
what load data is correct for these bullets?
Bullseye of course works, but another one to try with lead 200 Gr SWC's is W-231 . 5.0 to 5.5 Grs of W-231, depending on the velocity you want, will shoot well in most guns.

double d
September 19, 2009, 07:57 PM
I have been loading Precision 200 gr LSWC using 3.9 grs of Bullseye.
These bullets have a concave base, not flat. I load these to 1.242"
with a crimp of .470". Also, I purchased a separate set of dies to use in
the LNL with the LSWC. I purchased Lee's which have a separate
seating die and a separate crimping die. (I leave the sizer/decapper,
bello and powder stations alone, and remove the powder cop and
combined seater/crimper) Since I normally load FMJ bullets with my
Hornady new demension dies, I did not want to muck these up with lead.
I have found the separate stations for seating and crimping works well
with the LSWC.

sourdough44
September 19, 2009, 09:14 PM
I am at 1.225 COL with a Rainier plated 200 grn RN bullet. I have used 5.1 grns of Tightgroup & 6.1 grns of H Universal with this bullet. All loads have cycled fine. I give just a touch of 'bell' to get the .452 bullet started, no crimp is needed.

pinkymingeo
September 19, 2009, 09:25 PM
If you're tearing case mouths you probably need to adjust your pawls. Shellplate misalignment will definitely cause that. The other cause of it, for me, has been using Lee dies (read FCD) in station 5. With the old wire ejection system the case wasn't held in place at 5, and the FCD's insufficient bevel would catch the rim. With Ezject the case rises at an angle, and the same thing happens. I long ago decided that Lee and LnL AP are a poor match. I only use Lee seating dies now, with Dillon sizers and RCBS crimp dies.

Walkalong
September 19, 2009, 09:51 PM
With the old wire ejection system the case wasn't held in place at 5, and the FCD's insufficient bevel would catch the rim. With Ezject the case rises at an angleThe Lee FCD die for pistol calibers does have very little bevel and alignment needs to be almost perfect. The LNL EZ-Ject does tilt cases in station 5 as it comes standard, but it doesn't have to. ;)

Link to the cure (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=464088).

Other folks have done it successfully as well since I was inspired by Wilburts observations of his EZ-Ject problems and posted about how I cured my EZ-Ject from tilting cases in the fifth station.

I believe rcmodel is right. More bell and better alignment of the bullet on the case prior to seating will cure the OP's problems. It's happening prior to the fifth station in the seating die. I like the Hornady seaters for pistol calibers. I have 4 or 5. I bought them to replace other seaters. The only one I like better is the Redding Competition seater, but it is a lot more money.

pinkymingeo
September 20, 2009, 05:24 AM
Walkalong, I actually like the way Ezject works at station 5. With the old system the case was free to wobble, but now it's held in place securely. As long as the die has adequate bevel the new system works much better, for me anyway. FWIW my case damage problems caused by indexing occurred at the PTX, where the brass would be torn and rolled downward, but not enough to prevent completion of the round.

Shrinkmd
September 20, 2009, 08:41 AM
The machine is indexing fine (I checked) and the case mouth tearing is only occurring at the bullet seating station, which is in position 4 (I have the Hornady taper crimp in position 5) It is definitely the seater die.

Today I will try opening up the case mouths a bit more, and also go back to the shaped, rather than flat, seating stem.

Walkalong
September 20, 2009, 09:21 AM
the case was free to wobble

Interesting pinkymingo. My cases don't wobble in the 5th station. I can only think some of your primers are not seated fully allowing the cases to wobble on the flat sub plate.

I loaded 50 .40's the other day using the Lee FCD die (:eek:) in the 5th station. All the cases hit the tiny, almost zero bevel, opening in the FCD no problem. Of course, it's a short case, and that always helps.

The spring is still helping to hold the case from sliding out just a tiny bit from underneath with a bit of friction. Not much though.

I will try opening up the case mouths a bit more
As advised by rcmodel earlier, that should fix it.

pinkymingeo
September 20, 2009, 09:42 AM
Individual styles play a big role in how we like our reloading equipment set up.
I load a whole bunch of 200lswc in 45acp. Pre-ezject, using the FCD, I had to put pressure on each round with my left thumb to get reliable feeding into the die. Still damaged a bunch of cases. Now the process moves like lightning with no thumb pressure at all.

Shrinkmd
October 5, 2009, 07:52 AM
I opened up the case mouths a bit, and they all went in no problem. I still had to use the flat seater plug, as when I tried using the open ended one (which worked fine for the LRN) it kept getting stuck on the bullet and yanking out of the die on the upstroke of the press. No problems at all with the flat seater, now that I can place the bullet more into the case mouth prior to seating.

I also increased the amount of taper crimp just a touch, and they slip and slide out of the case gauge nicely. I'm at .4715 or .472, depending how you hold the calipers.

Problem solved. I have a different question, but it is unrelated and more general, so I will start a new thread after a search...

Noveldoc
October 7, 2009, 08:12 PM
Another thought. I use a Lee carbide die for 200 gr LSWCs and LRNs, medium hard. I crimp with the seating die, one step.

I bell minimally but do chamfer the case mouths, which makes a real difference.

Tom

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