CCW and Public Restrooms


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jwalker497
September 20, 2009, 12:40 AM
I was thinking the other day....Say a person is CCing and they are caught "off guard" by bodily functions and are forced to do "no 2". If you are CCing via an IWB, how do you hide any exposed part of the gun that may be visible under the stall. I know this is a crazy question, but seriously how do you handle this???

When you look at your typical stall, you can see a person pants and belt and shoes. Not that I am looking but ya know. What do you do. Is this an issue that anyone else has dealt with or thought about?

Granted I try to avoid using public services whenever possible but hey sometimes BLANK happens!

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rbernie
September 20, 2009, 12:54 AM
I use a paddle holster and simply remove the holster before dropping trou.

larry_minn
September 20, 2009, 12:56 AM
First off you should consider places your normally go. Long before I got a permit I "mentally noted" nice places to "do a sit down" Mainly places with a lock on door for "single person" bathroom. Then you put gun in your pants leg. (no chance to forget it on toilet seat) Yes there have been a few folks honest enough to post they FORGOT it..... (That has to be just below my fear that I will ever have to use my gun) as worst things.

Eightball
September 20, 2009, 12:56 AM
Remove the firearm before dropping your pants, and keep the firearm on your lap or in your hands, I would think.

ezypikns
September 20, 2009, 01:03 AM
The pistol goes in the pocket (it doesn't have to be a good fit, just secure enough not to go clattering onto the floor) and the pants are carefully lowered.

bigfatdave
September 20, 2009, 01:08 AM
Unfasten, lower to knee level or so, and refasten, then fold the boxers over the pistol.

Practice at home.

ghoster
September 20, 2009, 01:26 AM
mine hanges right there.

people probly think im a cop or something.

dont really care if someone sees it. what are they gonna do? report you to the police? well officer i was looking under toilet stall walls and-----:what:

if your worried just start talking to yourself or grunting loudly and no one will come near your stall. :evil:

1911 guy
September 20, 2009, 01:29 AM
This happens several times a week at work. I use a belt holster, not a paddle. When I drop trou, just put the pistol in the crotch of your pants. It will settle nicely below the waistband and nobody is any the wiser.

Ragnar Danneskjold
September 20, 2009, 01:34 AM
Choose your stall wisely. I pick the one where my strong side is against the wall, thus shielding it from view.

NMGonzo
September 20, 2009, 02:49 AM
Weapon on weak hand.

Oyeboten
September 20, 2009, 02:55 AM
Shoulder Holster...it's never an issue...


Pocket-Carry...never an issue...


'Mexican-Carry'...issue...(if easily solved, as various above Posts relay for IWB...)


Lol...

fattboyzz
September 20, 2009, 02:58 AM
yepp to the above post .... an like someone said just set it inside your dropped trou. !

Doggy Daddy
September 20, 2009, 03:18 AM
Do NOT hang it on the coat hook by the trigger guard!

DD

ironcode
September 20, 2009, 04:41 AM
Yeah, I've done it... I wear in an IWB holster. What I did was basically fold the gun inwards so that it gets covered by the rest of the pants. But pulling them back up when you're done is hard - the damn thing keeps trying to come out, you basically have to grab it by the handle and use it to pull your pants up :-)

The Avatar of Time
September 20, 2009, 05:42 AM
I stick the pistol under my arm, as if I had a shoulder holster on, and assuming I don't forget and move my arm it stays right there. I guess I would put it under the arm I don't wipe with though....

bigfatdave
September 20, 2009, 07:52 AM
The problem I see with many of these methods, and the reason I go through the hassle of leaving the pistol in the holster can be seen here:
http://yeahthatsodd.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/shot-toilet.jpg
It turns out that fumbling for a pistol in the stall can be dangerous (http://yeahthatsodd.com/2009/01/30/funeral-services-scheduled-for-toilet-that-was-gunne-down/)

Perhaps my bias has something to do with the full nature of any public toilet stall I'm occupying - if you remember what it is like to use a bus/airline crapper, that's what it is like for me in any non-handicapped stall.
If the pistol was going to move from the normal location on the belt, it is moving with the holster ... I'm not about to try to catch my pistol and end up claiming "it went off when it hit the floor", like most of these morons who have a ND in the can end up claiming, even though the shot was obviously downwards, not up from the floor.

The Lone Haranguer
September 20, 2009, 08:02 AM
Here is definitely an advantage to a shoulder holster. ;) But I don't wear them, so I loosen but don't completely unbuckle my belt, slide my pants down over my hips with the gun and holster still attached, and spread my knees apart to maintain pressure on the gun/holster and keep them upright. This also showcases the value of a holster with some retention to it. I've also removed the gun and set it on a paper dispenser if the top surface is flat enough, but this introduces an additional danger of forgetting it. :uhoh:

Deanimator
September 20, 2009, 09:47 AM
I take the gun out of it's holster and put in my pocket. We're not exactly talking about particle physics.

Deus Machina
September 20, 2009, 09:52 AM
If I have to, the gun goes into a pocket.

If there's a place to, I take the holster off (hooked spring-clip IWB) and set it on the back of the toilet, the paper dispenser, etc. I'm good about not forgetting about it.

mercedesrules
September 21, 2009, 12:19 AM
When you go up #2 creek, always use a paddle. :P

zombienerd
September 21, 2009, 01:32 AM
My IWB unclips from the belt, and goes into the crotch of the pants / shorts still in Holster. Trigger protected, safety still on, it's good to go. When I stand up it goes back on the belt.

Owen Sparks
September 21, 2009, 02:52 AM
I really hate to have to do that in a public restroom.
But I digress.

Some years back a policeman in my town went to the bathroom in a fast food place and actually left his pistol on the back of the toilet.
An employee happened to find it and smuggled it out back and hid it behind the dumpster presumably to retrieve later. The cop realized his mistake while ordering and rushed into the bathroom only to find his pistol gone. Someone evidently saw the employee run out and come right back and reported him. He confessed after being questioned and the revolver was returned later that evening. They put the employee in jail but I am not sure what happened to the cop as his identity was never released.

David E
September 21, 2009, 03:32 AM
mine hangs right there.

people probly think im a cop or something.

dont really care if someone sees it. what are they gonna do?

Um, let's see.......how about they STEAL IT ! They reach under the adjacent stall, snag your gun and run out the door. Now, what are YOU going to do? Chase after them with your pants around your ankles ?

ColinthePilot
September 21, 2009, 03:43 AM
I remove the pistol and set it on the paper holder. Most of them either have a good flat side, or the roll itself will hold the pistol nicely. I do this extremely rarely, like less than once a year. I try to keep #2 restricted to home, and I can't carry at work.

MachIVshooter
September 21, 2009, 10:22 AM
Um, let's see.......how about they STEAL IT ! They reach under the adjacent stall, snag your gun and run out the door. Now, what are YOU going to do? Chase after them with your pants around your ankles ?

As well as being an incredibly unlikely scenario, the chances of being able to successfuly accomplish such an endeavor are pretty minimal. The average bathroom stall is wide enough that the would be theif would have his arm in your stall up to or past his elbow, at a level that virtually requires he lay on the floor. Then he would have to, at that funny angle, be able to draw the weapon up out of the holster and pull back quickly enough that I don't grab his hand, break his arm and then drag him under the stall partition and proceed to beat him within an inch of his life. Would probably give him a swirly for a grand finale.


Of the many concerns I've had while carrying, this is not one of them.

el gato
September 21, 2009, 11:07 AM
I remove the firearm from the IWB and hold onto it while I lower my trousers and shorts. Once I am seated I place it in the crotch of my shorts/jeans until my business is done and reverse the process. On numerous occassions while in the seated position there have been some loud/rowdy sounding people enter the restroom and on these occassions I felt very secure even though I was in a very compromising position.

Autopistola
September 21, 2009, 11:09 AM
By hanging a pistol (presumably a glock) by its trigger guard on a hook, a local policeman actually discharged his gun in the bathroom stall. It was all over the news.:banghead:

Guitargod1985
September 21, 2009, 01:04 PM
I remove the pistol and set it on the paper holder. Most of them either have a good flat side, or the roll itself will hold the pistol nicely. I do this extremely rarely, like less than once a year. I try to keep #2 restricted to home, and I can't carry at work.


This is a bad idea. Trust me.

See this: http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4123210&postcount=35

I remove the firearm from the IWB and hold onto it while I lower my trousers and shorts. Once I am seated I place it in the crotch of my shorts/jeans until my business is done and reverse the process

^ this is what I do now.

hso
September 21, 2009, 01:37 PM
Hammock method.

Guitargod1985
September 21, 2009, 01:55 PM
:confused:

As in banana hammock? :eek:

Coyote3855
September 21, 2009, 02:10 PM
As well as being an incredibly unlikely scenario, the chances of being able to successfuly accomplish such an endeavor are pretty minimal. The average bathroom stall is wide enough that the would be theif would have his arm in your stall up to or past his elbow, at a level that virtually requires he lay on the floor. Then he would have to, at that funny angle, be able to draw the weapon up out of the holster and pull back quickly enough that I don't grab his hand, break his arm and then drag him under the stall partition and proceed to beat him within an inch of his life. Would probably give him a swirly for a grand finale.


Not sure if it was on THR, but I remember reading of an incident or incidents where the miscreants reached under the stall door, yanked the occupant off the throne and partially under the door, then relieved said occupant of wallet, watch, cell phone, etc.

And you plan to visit this destruction on the perpetrator with your pants around your ankles? Good luck with that.

CCWB
September 21, 2009, 02:40 PM
Leave it in the IWB and put it in the back pocket. Lower the britches, do my business, and you can't help but remember it's there when you pull the britches up. No one sees it because it's in the rear pocket, you can't forget it because it weighs your britches down.

kd7nqb
September 21, 2009, 03:39 PM
Oddly enough I started a thread on this a while back,


http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=284643&highlight=bathroom

In my own life I tend to take the holster off and put it in my pants themselves as I sit. Also sometimes you can just make sure not to put your pants all the way to the floor.

Mp7
September 21, 2009, 03:47 PM
Oh man, there´s quite a few rather funny pics in my mind now :)

(Not to the anonymous Restroom-Builder: Please install holster-hangers.)

MachIVshooter
September 22, 2009, 12:51 AM
Not sure if it was on THR, but I remember reading of an incident or incidents where the miscreants reached under the stall door, yanked the occupant off the throne and partially under the door, then relieved said occupant of wallet, watch, cell phone, etc.

While I don't doubt a few such isolated incidents, I should think the odds aren't much greater than being hit by falling airplane parts. I have never read of such an assault in my 27 years. Rape in bathroom stalls is far more common.

And you plan to visit this destruction on the perpetrator with your pants around your ankles? Good luck with that.

5'10", 190 pounds and < 11% body fat. Any little stinker feeling froggy enough is welcome to try his luck. Perhaps they'll get what they're after, but I suspect not. Either way, it's not your place to speculate about my capabilities.

Mr.510
September 22, 2009, 07:38 AM
I carry with an IWB. When I drop trou I hold the weapon and holster in place on my belt with my strong side hand as I sit. Once I'm properly aligned for the firing of torpedoes I hook the waste band of my underwear over the grip of my pistol. It's held in place next to my knee with zero drama. It's also readily accessible if I need it. If I'm going commando I re-hook the top button of my pants after dropping trou and push my knees apart enough to hold the weapon and holster in place next to my knee. I would never, in a thousand years, take off a gun and set it down in a public restroom. A hundred people (that just used the toilet) have touched that TP dispenser since it was last "cleaned"..... :what:

bababooey32
September 22, 2009, 09:56 AM
1) Go at home.

2) Unholster and keep at low ready (see leg-grab scenario above)

3) Practice twirling the gun with trigger finger (a la western gunslinger)

4) Use the front sight to scratch your ex's phone number onto the stall wall

5) Drop it on the toes that are tapping underneath the stall next to you

6) Dryfire practice at stall door (please unload first)

7) Juggle your cell phone, wallet and firearm so as to keep all three off the floor

8) Wrap in an entire roll of toilet paper

9) Build a suppressor out of the toilet paper rolls and then shoot what you have left behind right out of the bowl

and 10) Keep your Glock in your waistband...no really - it's safe!

:evil:

ghoster
September 22, 2009, 11:33 AM
i havent figured out the quote feature yet so in reference to stealing it wil its still on my belt.

if they drag you out it dosent matter where it is there gonna get it.

i am not so large as to need to sit straddling the can so my feet and pants are neatly in front of the can so it is a long reach to my gun, then in my sherpa holster they have to relese it to get it out.

also while sitting there my 380 in my ankle holster is extremly accesable to me.

so yea, someone laying on the floor tring to steal it would probly turn into yet another stall rape. remember rape is just insertsion so good thing the 45 is stainless cause it will need a good boiling when i get home.:D

KarenTOC
September 22, 2009, 01:09 PM
Can't you just remove it and put it in your purse for the duration?

oh wait... wrong bathroom.

nevermind :)

xsquidgator
September 22, 2009, 02:20 PM
A different note about CCW and public restrooms... in between stages at an IDPA match this weekend we were talking about CCW and restrooms, and one guy had a friend who carried and was still mugged in a public restroom. He carried in a fanny pack, the bad guy hid in a stall and ambushed him from behind, and got the fanny pack off of him before he knew what hit him. And, the bad guy had an accomplice standing at this sink who came out of the woodwork to help subdue the victim. Luckily the friend wasn't shot with his own CCW... stay alert and safe out there!

bigfatdave
September 22, 2009, 02:31 PM
I had to read that twice to figure out that the mugging didn't happen AT that IDPA match.

Keeping alert when your concealment isn't the best (fanny pack on a non-tourist) or you are OCing is always a good idea, but a dedicated mugger still has the element of surprise and choice of location.

MisterMike
September 22, 2009, 04:12 PM
I carry with an IWB. When I drop trou I hold the weapon and holster in place on my belt with my strong side hand as I sit. Once I'm properly aligned for the firing of torpedoes I hook the waste band of my underwear over the grip of my pistol. It's held in place next to my knee with zero drama. It's also readily accessible if I need it.

I was about to describe doing exactly the same thing. I don't like the idea of removing and replacing my pistol/holster in a public restroom. Doing it this way is as easy as can be.

conw
September 22, 2009, 04:14 PM
Make sure you practice daily.

Buck Nekkid
September 22, 2009, 08:53 PM
Years ago at a Cowboy Action Shoot we had a scenario where we were in an outhouse, on the throne. At the beep the door was thrown open and we had to shoot 10 targets with revolvers, 10 targets with the lever gun, and 4 with the side by side...all from the sitting position! It was one of the most fun scenarios I've ever shot.

Clipper
September 23, 2009, 06:52 PM
Most restrooms anymore have those big double roll dispensers, so I just lay it on top. MI is an OC state, so I could care less what someone sees under the door or side, nor do I give a rat's if anyone hears me snapping it back into my OWB, as they're gonna see it when I come out anyway. I just always remove it from the holster because it makes re-dressing easier, and so I can keep it securely behind the arm that's resting on the roll dispenser.

Erik M
September 23, 2009, 06:53 PM
so yea, someone laying on the floor tring to steal it would probly turn into yet another stall rape. remember rape is just insertsion so good thing the 45 is stainless cause it will need a good boiling when i get home.:D
Thats the most disturbing thing I have read in a while. :D


I carry IWB. I remove the gun, hold it in my off hand, drop trou, and then place the weapon on to the inseam of my pants. This is an extremely rare occurrence; have to be at Defcon "2" for this to occur in a public restroom.

rocky branch
September 23, 2009, 08:26 PM
Reminds me of a story about my old friend from childhood who was an ATF agent for awhile.

He visited my house once and took a dump.

After he left, I noticed a really nce S&W hammerless lying behind the stool.

I kept quiet and next day got a sheepish call asking if I had seen his piece, anywhere.

bigfatdave
September 23, 2009, 09:02 PM
He left the stool, too?
Gross!

I had to do an "armed drop-off" today, and taking an extra second to think about it got me a stall with no easy access to the right side. Unfasten, drop, refasten ... a good gun belt will keep your IWB vertical, I assume it would for an OWB rig as well, but I've never had one to try with.

gym
September 23, 2009, 09:23 PM
Put it on top of the toilet, or take it off your holster and put it in your pants. Geez

distra
September 24, 2009, 08:04 PM
All of this handling of your CCW is completely unnecessary and asking for trouble. Leave the loaded pistol in its holster! Let you pants ride higher up while doing #2 to keep it from view. Besides, who cares if someone sees it under the stall. Most people are oblivious anyway. All this handling I'm reading about is just asking for trouble.

ShakyJ
September 24, 2009, 08:28 PM
Personally, I think the least amount of manipulation to the firearm (even holstered), the better. I think taking the firearm off of your body and setting it anywhere is a bad idea. For IWB carry, I do the following and it works great (assuming you wear underwear)
1. Unfasten belt, unbutton and unzip pants
2. Lower pants to mid-thigh and refasten belt (looser than when around waist)
3. Lower underwear and wrap underwear over grip of handgun (as well as mag pouches, if applicable)
4. Lower entire assembly of pants/underwear/carry rig to ankles
Gentle outward pressure with each leg (tension against fastened belt) will keep your weapon vertical and within easy reach. The underwear completely covers all exposed areas of the firearm and mag pouches. It's safe, fast, easy and completely elliminates manipulating or removing the firearm in any way.

Badlander
September 24, 2009, 08:41 PM
I stopped at A park to use the restroom. On my way in I saw A man sitting near the building watching me walk in. I had my S&W 640 in A flimsey iwb holster. So with my pants lowered I held the gun in my hand. This guy walks in straight to the stall I was in, jerked the door hard enough to break the small hook lock. The look on his face was priceless when he saw me sitting there with A gun.
He just stammered that he did not know anyone was in here and went straight out. when I left he was gone.

bigfatdave
September 24, 2009, 08:51 PM
Good save, Badlander. Always good to hear about a "no shots fired" SD incident.

Beyond something like that, I'm not seeing many good reasons to remove the pistol from the holster. I've spent enough time professionally evaluating human performance in an industrial setting, and it doesn't take much distraction to get someone to inadvertently manipulate an object in their grasp, be it a switch, valve, button, or lever. I imagine a trigger would be in the same category, see my above post (#16) for an example of why to keep it in the holster. Either you hold it in a fashion more likely to be dropped, or you hold it by that convenient, comfortable, ergonomic grip ... which places your finger near the trigger.
So, besides the classic "it could never happen to me!", does anyone have a good reason to remove a pistol from the anti-tamper device while in a cramped space and doing other things?

mustang_steve
September 24, 2009, 09:15 PM
I personally think this is a solid argument for retainer straps, or careful manipulation of the pants to keep the pistol in the upright position.

OurSafeHome.net
September 24, 2009, 10:02 PM
I stopped at A park to use the restroom...

...The look on his face was priceless when he saw me sitting there with A gun.
He just stammered that he did not know anyone was in here and went straight out. when I left he was gone.

Similar incident happened to me at the office.

I yelled "Hey, I'm in here!" while holding my stainless steel M-1911 at "low-ready" position.

We all had a big laugh about that one.

(and everyone remembers to knock, now.)

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