[Oyeboten]

Anyone been Chronographing theirs lately?


Details on Make-Model-Loading and FPS realized?


Been thinking of madcratebuilder's new 'Dragoobine' or, 'Carboon'...and imagining the projectiles zipping along in the high teens at least.


So, wondering what regular Dragoons and Walkers are doing, and, with various Bullet types and weights?

[madcratebuilder]

I bought a Chronograph with a friend and I have used it one time with some of my c&b revolvers. I seem to have missed placed my notes. You can bet I well be checking what that 18" barrel well do. I well be able to do a 7.5", 9", and 18" same day test.

[Pulp]

My chronograph died early in the spring. Seems it was excellent at reading velocities of bullets going over it, but not very good at reading velocities of bullets going through it.

Some of the stuff I remember:
Walker with round ball and a 45 grain spout on my flask averaged a hair under 1000fps with two going over 1000fps.

.31 caliber Remington, round ball and a 0.7cc Lee Dipper charge average around 700fps with 4 different types of powder. Goex FFg was slowest at around 650fps, 777FFFg was fastest at around 750. PyroP was very close to the 777.

[Ratdog68]

but not very good at reading velocities of bullets going through it.

Somewhere, I've got a DVD of a guy with a brand spanking new chronograph that he got for Christmas from a parents... sets it up with all his hunting buddies around and proceeds to "kill" his chronograph with the first arrow... on tape, infront of all his cronies. :D :banghead: :D The point of the exercise was to determine who's "training wheeled bow" was the fastest.

[Mark whiz]

Well I don't have a Dragoon or Walker, but I do have some Chrony data for a 1858Rem that might help you. I chrono'd a full cylinder with 4 different powders and here is what I saw:

.454" round ball

Powder type Low Vel. Hi Vel. Average E.S S.D.
30gr 777 3fg 865.1fps 987.8fps 901.4fps 122.6fps 47.77fps
30gr BlackMag3 675.0fps 902.9fps 810.0fps 227.8fps 83.79fps
30gr PyroP Pellets 900.7fps 1083fps 1009fps 182.7fps 62.57fps
30gr Goex2fg Black 541.2fps 704.7fps 613.9fps 163.5fps 64.21fps

[arcticap]

With a longer barrel, the Walker should attain somewhat higher velocity than with the following load:

Cap and Ball Ballistics
By Ed Sanow
Handguns February 1998
Cap and Ball Wound Ballistics

Calibre: .44 Walker
Firearm: 1847 Walker
Bullet: 141gr RB
FFFg: 60gr
Velocity: 1287 fps
Energy: 519 ft lb
1 Shot Stop: 87%

[MCgunner]

Not lately, but my ROA puts a cast 220 conical over the traps at about 950 or so fps IIRC with a full cylinder of Pyrodex P.

[MCgunner]

delete post

[mykeal]

There are several good books available with loading data for the Dragoon and Walker: The Gun Digest Blackpowder Loading Manual, Lyman Black Powder Handbook, Percussion Pistols and Revolvers History, Performance and Practical Use, to name a few. All are available from Amazon.com.

The Gun Digest book gives an MV of 1205 fps with 55 gr fffg real black and a 141 gr .454 rb in a Walker. That same ball had MV's of 852, 1025, 1100 & 1142 fps with 30, 40, 45 & 50 gr of fffg real black powder in a 3rd Model Dragoon.

Cumpston & Bates (in the Percussion Pistols & Revolvers book) give 1001 fps MV for the Walker loaded with the .454 ball and 55 gr fffg real black powder. Their Dragoon got 881 fps MV with the .454 ball and 45 gr fffg.

[Oyeboten]

Thanks everyone for your mentions...


Overall, these seem to be VERY respectable Velocities indeed.


I'd often wondered about a Dragon or Walker or even M1860 for the odd Self Defense exigency.


Overall, any of which appear to exceed or far exceed .44 Special, even though ostensibly of the same Calibre.

Barrel length of course matters...in any event...

[kwhi43@kc.rr.com]

I got 1350 fps in my Flintlock .32 cal pistol. 30 grs Goex FFF black powder
That would be in the magnum range.

[BCRider]

Posted by MarkWhiz

Powder type Low Vel. Hi Vel. Average E.S S.D.
30gr 777 3fg 865.1fps 987.8fps 901.4fps 122.6fps 47.77fps
30gr BlackMag3 675.0fps 902.9fps 810.0fps 227.8fps 83.79fps
30gr PyroP Pellets 900.7fps 1083fps 1009fps 182.7fps 62.57fps
30gr Goex2fg Black 541.2fps 704.7fps 613.9fps 163.5fps 64.21fps

...er.... what's with the really low last two figure in each line? Did you forget to put powder into the last couple of chambers? :D I'm also a bit shocked at the low first figure in each case. Something to do with warming up the barrel or the first shot clearing the residue from the last shot fired in the previous test?

Perspiring minds need to know! ! ! !..... :D

[hogshead]

Talk about extreme spread. 987.4fps to 47.77fps Wonder what kinda group he got?

[mykeal]

The last two figures on each line are the extremes of the data spread (High - Low) and the statistical standard deviation of the data. The low first figure in each case is exactly that, the lowest figure in each data set. It's not necessarily the first shot in each set.

987.4 to 47.77 is not the extreme spread. The extreme spread is the lowest velocity (865.1) to the highest velocity (987.8); extreme spread is the difference between the two (987.8-865.7=122.7). The number 47.77 is the standard deviation of the data set.

Here's how the data is organized:
777 - Low: 865.1 fps, High: 987.8 fps, Avg: 901.4 fps, Ext Spd: 122.6 fps, Std Dev: 47.7 fps

[BCRider]

You HAD to go and spoil the fun, didn't you! :D

I sort of figured that would be what the last two were. But I'm still shocked at the low first figure. In three of the cases the difference from the first value to the others is pretty extreme. What would account for such a wide variation? Especially since the other two figures are well within "spittin' distance" of each other.

[mykeal]

Chronographing black powder revolvers is always a bit frustrating. Essentially the smoke cloud can disturb the readings. The chronograph must be set several feet from the gun to minimize the smoke interference and sometimes that affects the readings. It's always a balance exactly where to put the sensors.

Another possible cause is fouling. Some people shoot an entire cylinder without swabbing; people who are trying to get precise data will shoot just one round, always out of the same chamber, and clean after every shot. I have no idea what was done for the above data.

[arcticap]

30gr Goex2fg Black 541.2fps 704.7fps 613.9fps 163.5fps 64.21fps


Plus the Goex readings above were fired with ffg compared to the Goex fffg figures below:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=193394&highlight=velocity

28 Grain Pyrodex P 966
28 Grain Goex FFFG 795
28 Grain Swiss FFFG 959
35 Grain Swiss FFFG 1089
40 Grains Swiss FFFG 1104
40 Grains Pyrodex P 1125
.454 ball- Uberti 58

[Oyeboten]

Cool...


A very 'Healthy' Remington!


Many people seem to have accepted the Hear-Say, of .44 Cap-and-Ball Revolvers being on par with .38 Special...when clearly, this is incorrect.


On par with .357 Magnum, is more like it.


Gunna start a 'Coffee Can' for saving up for a Chronograph...


I want one anyway...and, being able to evaluate various BP Cap-and-Ball Loadings and Bullet-kinds' FPS, seems very interesting and fun.


I can image several variables effecting FPS ( in addition to 'Smoke' confusing the sensors...)


Compatibility of Cylinder Bore diameters and Barrel Diameters...fouling...Nipple and Cap particulars, Powder, Bullet fit vis-a-vie the Bore...Bullet hardness...

[arcticap]

Also the amount of powder compression and whether an OP wad is used. :rolleyes:

[Mark whiz]

Mykeal - thanx for explaining my E.S. and S.D. numbers. You were exactly correct. Also you are right in the fact that the lowest reading was not always the first shot with the powder. I fired all six cylinders with each powder, without swabbing in between shots. I did swab the bore when I changed to a loading with a different powder.

BCRider - I definitely agree with arcticap about powder compression affecting the readings - personally I think that is the major factor. I did use lubed wonder wads with every shot fired, so that should be a wash between the different powders. If you think these results were kinda erratic - you ought to see the actual readings for each shot with the Black Mag 3 powder. WOW were they all over the place every shot. Which explains why my rifle even vommits that stuff and shoots patterns, rather than groups with it. Black Mag is junk - at least this batch was......so I found out quickly never to buy anymore.

Oyeboten - I would agree with your assessment of these things being more like a .357Mag. The recoil is very .38ish ............... but killing power is very much like a .357 based on the hogs I've killed with this pistol and a .357Mag.