semi-auto shotgun

[ElPrez231]

Hey all, lately I have been in the market to pickup a shotgun with the intentions of primarily using it for skeet shooting. I was looking to get the Stoger STF-3000 since it was on sale at Dick's over labor day weekend, but, after reading reviews, many negative, I have decided against purchasing an O/U until I can afford one of the higher quality ones. I have thus decided to move back to looking for an affordable semi-auto. My first choice was a Mossberg 930; affordability and reliability out of the box. I was also browsing my local gun shops pre-owned inventory and noticed they had a Remington 1100 for $350, and a plethora of Stoeger 2000 ranging from $310 to the mid $400's. Just thought out of those 3 selections, which ones would you choose? The Mossberg I would more than likely purchase new; the Stoeger and Remington I'd have to check out since they are both pre-owned and rated in "fair" condition. Please feel free to add any suggestions to the mix. Thanks in advance for all the advice!

[Floppy_D]

I've owned the Stoeger, and I own an 1100. I can't think of anything negative to say about the Stoeger, other than I regretted buying camoflauge. Sometimes they can be picky with light loads, but the only hiccups I had were within the first 200 rounds.

I now have an 1100, an older one:
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb11/floppy_d/100_6297.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb11/floppy_d/100_6298.jpg

I haven't put a ton of ammo through it, but so far it's worked well, and I sure like the looks and feel of it. If I had to do it all over again, I'd stick with the 1100 for a field and clay gun. I don't really like plastic on a shotgun unless it's a beater for the back of the truck or for ducks, but that's just my opinion.

Having done a bunch of research on inexpensive semi-auto shotguns, it seems the crowd is divided on the Stoeger, though my experience has been good. I have no first-hand knowledge on the Mossberg, so I can't speak of it. Lastly, the 1100 has a strong following, with the noted exception of THR moderator Justin, who hates o-rings. :D

[ArmedBear]

I was happy to sell my 1100. The O-ring, after replacing it initially, didn't give me trouble. At the range, you can carry spares anyway.

The balance of the things is good, and the weight is fine for skeet shooting, though too heavy to be a pleasant upland gun for someone who's serious about covering any ground.

However, the trigger is a sharp, short little bit of metal. Trigger pull is pretty lousy. The controls are clever, but the less superficially elegant controls of other semiautos allow convenient unchambering and chambering -- with a loaded magazine -- for crossing obstacles when hunting.

The innards of an 1100 contain sharp, stamped steel parts, some of which are held in by smashing the steel of the receiver over them. Now, 1100s don't tend to break down a lot. But when they do, they're no fun to try to fix. Look inside a Beretta. It's a whole different ballgame in there, with none of that crap. Smooth, non-finger-slicing edges, too. I'm not talking about a $1500 Sporting Clays gun, either. I have a "Wal Mart Beretta."

Like laws and sausages, you don't want to see how Remingtons are made.

Finally, the things get DIRTY, and fast. I pulled apart that Beretta 390 yesterday, because I had been hunting in a near dust storm, and I didn't want that grit to stay in the gun. I'd fired a few boxes of ammo through it, at various times, without cleaning it. To my surprise, the gas-operated action was only about as dirty as my 1100 was after firing 5 or 10 rounds. The "self-cleaning" piston in a 390 really does work. Not sure if I'd call it "self-cleaning" -- that's a bit over the top -- but between the more modern design and the coating on the magazine tube, the thing stays a lot cleaner and doesn't require wiping with lube like the 1100.

Now the 1100 didn't get popular by not shooting well. They do point, swing and shoot very nicely. It's the other stuff that I don't much care for any more.

Of the guns you asked about, I'd lean towards the Mossberg, but I'd suggest more research. I like the way they shoot, but haven't owned one and don't know how they fare after a few thousand rounds (no time at all, in skeet:)).

And that said, I'd suggest taking a breather and saving up just a tad more dough if you can.

If this guy ever figures out what he wants for this thing, I think it would make a hell of a "forever" skeet gun: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=475509

[Pony Express]

i was more than happy to get rid of my mossberg 930, but thats not because its a poor gun, its because im more of a pump guy

[TomADC]

I'm selling a Beretta 390 20ga 28" barrel Silver Mallard Sporting its a great little shotgun but I don't shoot much shotgun anymore our range is closed due to lead, but I like my O/U's better, this gun has had less then 4 boxes thru it. Three rounds of skeet if I remember right. This was made in Italy. Not cheap but a quality shotgun.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL174/1021972/18168454/374345894.jpg

[oneounceload]

Between the two choices listed, I would opt for the 1100 - they've been winning for a loooooooooong time - they're good guns that work well.

[Snarlingiron]

Mmmmmmm. Beretta 390...as good as an autoloader shotgun gets! I own 2.

[oneounceload]

That's a 390?? Looks like the older B-80 that they also made for Browning.....

[TomADC]

That's a 390?? Looks like the older B-80 that they also made for Browning.....

Nope its a 390, have all paper work, box etc even found the bill of sale when I bought new.
Been looking at a couple of the auction sites to get a fair price on it, but so far I've only seen 12 ga not 20's.

[TomADC]

Best I can do,

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL174/1021972/18168454/374557682.jpg

[oneounceload]

COOL....just never realized they had that more "square" back like the B-80 - I learn something new everyday......

Try gunsinternational.com? NOT an auction but a for sale sight - might be one there from someone to give you an idea

[DKA]

The 1100 will shoot good as long as you keep it clean and keep the O Ring good. Might also look for an 11 87, because of shooting 3" shells.

[ElPrez231]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. The 1100 was not in good condition at all; and definitely not something I would want to purchase, even if it is just $350. Many of the Stoeger's (except the $350 one) were in very good condition from what I could see, and I may just pull the trigger (pun intended) on a camo version, 28" bbl with fiber optic front sight for $370. Let me know what you guys think, thanks!

[oneounceload]

Since you said primarily skeet shooting, camo isn't necessary - if it's cheaper that's one thing. main thing is to make sure it fits - see if you can try that model on a skeet field first. Personally, I have no need for light pipes when target shooting - your focus needs to be on the target, NOT the sight. If you're looking at the sight, then you'll be missing the target

[ElPrez231]

Thanks for all the support and advice, guys. Fact of the matter is, it is the cheaper pick. Sooner or later I plan on using this for hunting as well; hopefully by then I will be able to afford a nice O/U to replace that for skeet.

[hometheaterman]

The 1100 would be my choice although I would probably try to find one in better shape. It's the best selling semi auto shotgun for a reason.

[ArmedBear]

It's the best selling semi auto shotgun for a reason.

Was. It's been a while since then.

[ElPrez231]

Have been reading a lot of reviews both here and on shotgunworld regarding the Remington SPR453. Seems like good value for the money. And yes, before anyone starts, I know it's made by a Russian company called Baikal and only imported by Remington to be sold under their name. Still, hard to believe a company with such a positive reputation regarding quality and workmanship like Remington would put their name on a product they don't stand behind. In any case, there are a plethora of these on gunbroker NIB, 26" vented bbl (I prefer 28" but no biggie) for $349. Good deal, anyone? I know this has been going back and forth, and I certainly appreciate the help and understanding considering time is of the essence.

[Virginian]

The AK-47 is the premier assault rifle of all time by a wide margin. It is Russian designed and built. But, I don't know anyone who chooses it or a knock off for their pet deer rifle.
If you like the Russian gun, get it.
We really need to lump all these posts under:
"Unless someone can prove to me that another gun it worth more money, I am going to get the cheap one. I would rather have a cheap new gun than a very good used gun. Opinions on feel, shootability, and/or other esoteric features don't count."

[ElPrez231]

So I'm going to assume and please, correct me if I'm wrong, based on your perceived tone that you feel inexpensive has to be correlated with bad value, unreliable, and not worth anyones time. The reason I asked is to get feedback from OWNERS or those who have experienced them personally; not from someone who has a biased opinion on how I should spend my money. Because unless it's something I feel I MUST have, I will shop around for the best deal and continue to ask questions and do research so I can be the most informed consumer possible for my particular situation. So please, if you would, don't try to paint me as someone who wants to choose quantity over quality or lower price over overall value, because believe me, I am not cheap; never have been never will be...I am a very informed individual and quite frankly, at the age of 24, have experienced more of the world by the time I was 10 than most people do in their lifetime. To be quite frank, this shotgun will more than likely be used for plinking around on the weekends and will never see heavy duty use in my rotation which is why I don't plan on spending very much on it. Sooner or later if we plan correctly, we all get what we want regardless of price (at least I do) but in the meantime, we need to find something that will compensate and suffice. Please don't take this the wrong way...we are all here to gain more information and feedback from others who may have experiences with something we are interested in spending our hard-earned money on, and what's what I'm trying to do with the least bit of sarcasm and smart-alleckness as possible.

[oneounceload]

I own an 1100 - in 28 gauge.....lot of fun, gives me my exercise bending over to capture those valuable empties. Have had to replace 1 O-ring (my fault), and 2 firing pin retention springs - shoots reloads and factory interchangeably.

Can't tell you about the Stoeger, except that it is an independent arm of the Beretta family and they make at least some of their guns in Turkey

[hometheaterman]

What I meant to say was not the best selling but the most sold semi auto. This according to wikipedia anyway.

[hometheaterman]

Still, hard to believe a company with such a positive reputation regarding quality and workmanship like Remington would put their name on a product they don't stand behind. Not for me. Remington is known for a lack of quality control in their products. Just look at the 870 Express and all the problems they have. Remington just is no longer a name associated with quality by a lot of people. Also look at the Remington 770 rifles they put out? That's a perfect example there a long with all the problems people have with the 870 expresses. Then you have the guys with the newer 700's that seem to have bolt handles break off. The quality of Remingtons from what I've seen just seems to have gone way downhill. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they had their name on a piece of junk considering they actually make some guns that aren't far from it.

[ArmedBear]

Remington hasn't had a positive reputation regarding quality and workmanship for a couple of decades.

That said, my old 1100 was quite well-made. It was the design that I no longer cared for, not because it suddenly didn't work, but because it has some quirks and flaws that newer designs, from other companies, have fixed. The first really successful gas gun couldn't be perfect; engineering doesn't work that way. Incremental improvement is the only way to approach perfect, over time.

Why didn't REMINGTON keep up with their competition, when they had a 30-year head start? Ask them. I don't know.:(

[TomADC]

Have a friend I've shot with for years he uses a 1100 for skeet has for better ten the 20+ years I've shot with him.
I bought one of the 1st 11-87 Sporting clays guns, fit is great and has never failed to cycle.
My only complaint is I reload and I hate chasing the empties..

[oneounceload]

Still, hard to believe a company with such a positive reputation regarding quality and workmanship like Remington would put their name on a product they don't stand behind.

The issues seem to be more with the lower priced items - items made to compete with the cheap Chinese/Turkish stuff. Everyone has been screaming for cheap - now you got it and don't like it......The high-end stuff from Remington and others is just fine - but when you are trying to make things to a certain low price point, quality is NOT high on the priority list - speed of manufacturing is along with a large volume.

You, as the consumer, has to decide what is important to you - sadly it seems, that a large folks would rather have cheap than good.......

You Do get what you pay for - IMO.....YMMV

[ArmedBear]

The high-end stuff from Remington

What high-end stuff?

They haven't made anything high-end since 1984. Sadly.

[chas08]

we are all here to gain more information and feedback from others who may have experiences with something we are interested in spending our hard-earned money on, and what's what I'm trying to do with the least bit of sarcasm and smart-alleckness as possible.
Well Said ! ! !
Check out this youtube video on the Baikal 153/ Remington 453 (essentially the same gun) your choice may not be a bad one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bA5JFrHRTU
I favor 1100's I've owned and shot several others. The 1100 is simply my favorite. I have never owned a Baikal semi-auto but I do own three of their SxS, a 16,20 & 28 ga they have been very solid, dependable firearms so far. If you want more to read about the Spr 453 use the search feature on this forum I typed Remington Spr 453 into the search bar and immediately had more than I cared to read. Best wishes....chas

[ArmedBear]

My old club had a 453 in rental service. It did pretty well AFAI, in an abusive environment.

It was fairly heavy, but balanced well and worked well.

[Virginian]

I can't speak as an owner because I tried one, shot one, and didn't like it. It feels like a Russian gun. If I have to go into combat to defend life and limb, give me an AK-47... please ! If I need help buliding a barn, give me one of the more 'solid' Russian ladies to help me. If I want to shoot something that I think looks and feels good, I don't want a Russian gun. If I want female companionship for..... let's just say my wife isn't Russian. :evil:

[FAS1]

I have a Benelli M1 Super 90 similiar to this one in the pic. I have an O/U also that I shoot sheet with. The thing I like about the Benelli is that it's a good all around shotgun and it stays very clean compared to most gas operated semi-auto shotguns. If you shoot it alot, you will appreciate this benefit.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/Benelli%20M1%20Super%2090/100_3208.jpg

[hometheaterman]

The issues seem to be more with the lower priced items - items made to compete with the cheap Chinese/Turkish stuff. Everyone has been screaming for cheap - now you got it and don't like it......The high-end stuff from Remington and others is just fine - but when you are trying to make things to a certain low price point, quality is NOT high on the priority list - speed of manufacturing is along with a large volume.

You, as the consumer, has to decide what is important to you - sadly it seems, that a large folks would rather have cheap than good.......

You Do get what you pay for - IMO.....YMMV While I agree with a lot of times you get what you pay for I'm not sure I agree with the rest of the post. Remington doesn't really make much I know of that's really high end and hasn't for a while as pointed out.

The other thing is a 870 Express Super Mag for $350 isn't exactly a cheap gun. You expect the cheaper wood and what not but not quality problems. A lot of their other guns aren't cheap either. If it was a $50-100 gun you would expect some issues but Savage as well as Marlin seem to be able to make guns in their same price ranges that don't have all these issues with quality.

[oneounceload]

What high-end stuff?

They haven't made anything high-end since 1984. Sadly.

My 1100 is well-made with some really nice wood on it - had it about 8 years now - fun to shoot 28 gauge. Some of the new wingmasters that i have seen, handled and shot were nice-looking, smooth-operating guns.......don't know about the low-end stuff, but it seems that most folks here are buying the low end stuff. Some are wanking, some aren't.

[ArmedBear]

Neither the 1100 nor the 870 are high-end in any of their guises. That doesn't mean they don't work, but they're designed specifically to be spit out of 1950s machinery. Design decisions, when necessary, were invariably made to optimize them for that production process, not for the shooter. Personally, I think the 870 Express represents a good value, since you're not paying for any lipstick on the pig, and mine has given me no trouble.

The last "high-end" production shotgun Remington made was the 3200, discontinued in 1984.

Of course, with handmade $200,000 models out there, what exactly constitutes "high-end" is subject to debate, but the 870 and 1100 ain't it, any more than my Toyota pickup was. Yeah, I drove it for 242K miles then sold it to someone else who kept driving it, but that didn't make it a Rolls-Royce, or even a low-end Benz.:)

[snooperman]

The CZ is nice but is made in Turkey. I do not have one but shot one last week on my farm that belongs to a friend and it was $400.00 new. I was quite impressed with the quality. You may want to give it a look- see. It would shoot everything we put in it.