Wolf Primers? What Do You Think?


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Noveldoc
September 21, 2009, 11:56 PM
Been reading debate about Wolf Primers and I have tried some since they are more available. I have used the large pistol variety in 45 ACP and 44 mag and they seem fine.

They are a bit larger sized. Some metric thing I guess. But just takes a bit of extra squeeze with my Lee prime tool. And they have worked okay at the range. Accurate and no misfires.

Just ordered some magnum large rifle for my 30-06 Garand. Read they have no extra charge, just a thicker case. With the hammer spring on my M-1, doubt that will be a problem. Will let you know.

Anybody else used them? BTW, Powder Valley Inc. has Large Rifle Magnums in stock at the moment.

And rumor has it they are corrosive so clean that bore quick and clean.

Tom

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wally
September 22, 2009, 12:02 AM
And rumor has it they are corrosive so clean that bore quick and clean

Its an untrue rumor. I've been using Wolf Primers for over a year. No issues.

--wally.

Noveldoc
September 22, 2009, 12:38 AM
Thanks Wally.

Tom

45ACPUSER
September 22, 2009, 09:11 PM
WOW internet rumor...
Wolf were orginally imported by PMC. Now, by Wolf themselves. David Tubb, do I need to tell you he is?, uses them Nuff Said!

I have used 15K thru a Dillon 550 with no problems!

D. Manley
September 22, 2009, 11:27 PM
Wolf were orginally imported by PMC. Now, by Wolf themselves.

Wolf primers are actually manufactured by Murom Apparatus producing plant (http://www.flame.murom.ru/en/default.htm). They were originally imported under the generic KVB brand, later by PMC and presently, by Wolf.

taliv
September 22, 2009, 11:36 PM
david tubb uses wolf primers??

at one point he did say he used some russian primers, but i'm pretty sure they weren't wolf (assuming you're talking about his HP adventures... maybe he shoots bullseye pistol too, i dunno)


(not that i've heard anything bad yet about wolf primers, just no claims they've won national hp/long range trophies)

RVenick
September 23, 2009, 09:28 AM
I have been reloading for about a year. The first primers I used were Winchester. Once I ran out of those and none were readily available (about the middle of January) I ordered the Wolf as they were still availablle. I have seen no real difference between the two and recently received a order for 5K more of both LP and SP.

mgkdrgn
September 23, 2009, 11:10 AM
I have some 5K of the LPP, and had heard on another thread here that they are hard to seat (ie, a weee bit larger than usual). Tried 10 out of the 5K and they -are- harder to seat, but they do seat (Using a Lee hand primer). I'll probably wear gloves when priming with them just to make it a little easier on my hands.

RVenick
September 23, 2009, 11:22 AM
I use a Lee Pro 1000 and at first I could tell they were a little harder to seat but after a while I got used to it and now it not a big deal.

Clarence
September 24, 2009, 11:52 PM
Have had zero problems with Wolf small pistol primers.

evan price
September 25, 2009, 12:38 AM
I've used every type of Wolf primer since January 2008. Other than the above mentioned tiny bit larger diameter (they seat harder- which is good in some cases!) I haven't had ANY trouble out of them whatsoever. The harder seating means it is critical that you get them in all the way to seat the anvil or you might get a light-strike- but that's a technique issue, not a primer issue. Wolf primers are 100% in my book. Heck, they are the same ones they use in their ammo.

That said, Wolf's recent price increase puts them right in the same price boat as CCI and Winchester and if price is the same I'll go Winchester or CCI. Not because of any problem with Wolf, but if price is the same I'd rather support a US company like Winchester. Now, if CCI and Win decide to raise their prices then Wolf is back in the running.

Oddly, my most recent shipment of Wolf small pistol primers- the cups are nickle plated. They didn't used to be. Odd.

D. Manley
September 25, 2009, 01:01 AM
Oddly, my most recent shipment of Wolf small pistol primers- the cups are nickle plated. They didn't used to be. Odd.

Yep. And, the new nickle plated version seems to have caused more people trouble. I personally had no problem seating them but light strikes popped up immediately with them in my guns with tuned triggers. I ran some control tests with an OEM trigger setup and had no problems, 100% ignition. With tuned trigger in same gun, about 6% failed to light. The tuned setup has been 100% with Federal and Winchester primers including, on the same days as shooting the new Wolfs. Bottom line, I think Wolf are good primers and if you run a stock gun, will prove reliable. They are however, a bit harder to light and if your favorite shooter with a tuned trigger has a problem with them a little more "whap" on the firing pin is the cure. In my case, I don't plan to run short of Federals...;).

Bart B.
September 25, 2009, 08:02 AM
PMC originally imported those Russian primers. Their chemistry was such that they don't degrade over time like most others do. They were also very uniform and were a favorite of competitors for years.

Wolff now imports them. But I don't know if the chemistry is still the same.

Crowbar Muldoon
September 26, 2009, 11:34 AM
+1 D Manley. You described my experience with 2k of Wolf SPP. My stock triggers worked fine, with a tuned trigger I had about 10-12 FTF (all of which went boom in the guns w/ OEM triggers). These appear to be nickle plated. Otherwise, they're great primers, no seating issues at all.

Redneck with a 40
September 26, 2009, 11:50 AM
I've loaded several thousand 40 S&W rounds with wolf primers, no problems at all. I'm getting tighter ES's with the wolf primers as well, I like them better than the Winchester's I used to use. I picked up 2K of the Wolf SR 223 primers at a gun show a month ago, I'll see how they perform today.:) I'm not worried though.

ants
September 26, 2009, 01:39 PM
Noveldoc heard: Read they have no extra charge, just a thicker case. Someone posted this on 6mmBR but without evidence. Not only are magnum primers hotter, they have powdered metal in the priming compound. The hot powdered metal (usually aluminum) blows through the flashhole into the case to help ignite the powder charge. Although Wolf doesn't have an informative web site, other manufacturers do.

From the CCI website under Education:


Magnum Primers
Most components primer manufacturers, including CCIŽ to reloaders offer Magnum primers. Under certain conditions, reloaders need a more powerful primer than standard primers. It's much like buying a new car and deciding whether to get the standard four-cylinder engine or a more powerful V-6.

When we develop load data, we consider these conditions as indicating use of Magnum primers:

With ball or spherical powders (some exceptions exist)
With large-volume cartridge cases
If the cartridge is likely to be fired in cold conditions (under 20° F)

Magnum primers are engineered to produce a hotter flame of longer duration to meet the needs of the above conditions. However, these characteristics often require a charge weight reduction to keep pressure under control. For this reason, use Magnum primers only where recommended in published loading data.

Our research indicates that some propellant/cartridge combinations do not require Magnum primers at the maximum load level, but can at the start load level for reliable ignition. When we find this, we use Magnum primers for all loads with that propellant.I wouldn't assume that magnum primers are not hotter. Be safe when using data for standard primers if you intend to use magnum primers instead. The conventional wisdom is to drop the powder charge 1 to 2 grains, start low and work up. If the rifle or the brass don't seem to like it, don't push it.

Redneck with a 40
September 26, 2009, 10:19 PM
On Widener's website, they describe the Wolf SR magnum primer as having the same power as the regular primer, just a harder cup, to prevent slam-fires or pierced primers.

ants
September 26, 2009, 11:03 PM
Previous post said: Widener's website, they describe the Wolf SR magnum primer as having the same power as the regular primer, just a harder cup

Here is cut-and-paste from Widener's web site on small rifle primers (only applies to small rifle):
SMALL RIFLE PRIMER (part # QQQSR) - Used as a standard small rifle primer. Perfect for the 30 carbine and 223 standard loads. Many people use this primer in bench and other loads for the 223. This primer is a copper colored primer.

SMALL RIFLE MAGNUM PRIMER (part# QQQSRM) - This is the primer we had before for use in the 5.56 loads and hot 223 loads. A thick cup for the higher pressure. We sold a lot of these primers earlier this year. The new lot is brass colored instead of nickel.

SMALL RIFLE 223 (part # QQQSR223) NEW NEW This is the newest primer available in the Wolf line. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup. This primer can be used in place of the SRM primer or used when a different powder is used that is hard to ignite.

orionengnr
September 26, 2009, 11:30 PM
Their chemistry was such that they don't degrade over time like most others do. They were also very uniform and were a favorite of competitors for years.

Can you support this claim?
Many of us have and use 15-20-25-30 year old US-made primers (Winchester, CCI, Federal, etc.) with zero issues...

I personally have bought 25 year old primers and used them without any problems whatsoever.

solvability
September 26, 2009, 11:37 PM
I have had a number of duds with SPP. No issues with LPP or any rifle primers.

jjohnson
September 27, 2009, 09:38 PM
I've loaded maybe 30k rounds using Wolf brand small pistol primers and large pistol primers over the last few years. I haven't used their rifle primers yet.

No problems. I'm not sure I'd want to buy a pacemaker or for that matter, an auto that came from Russia, but they figured out a long time ago how to make stuff that goes "bang" reliably. I haven't had problems with them being oversize or any other problem of any sort.

And no, they're NOT corrosive.

Bart B.
September 27, 2009, 10:51 PM
orionengnr asks if I can support my claim that primers degrade over time.

Yes, I can. So can everyone else who's won 1000 yard matches setting records once in a while. When your rifle stays inside 7 inches all day long at 1000 yards with new primers but won't hold 15 inches with old ones, there's proof in the pudding.

However, at 200 yards or less, one would be hard pressed to tell the old ones from the new ones; they both ignite powder that shoots bullets out the barrel. Chronographing them usually shows the difference but you've got to use the same lot of powder to observe it.

possum
September 28, 2009, 12:08 AM
i ordered 5000 of em for small pistol i have reloaded all of them and they have all shot just fine, with no issue.

JGAreddog
September 28, 2009, 09:43 PM
I was very hesitant to try them as i'm a commercial loader and my reputation is everything but after testing 20,000 in as many different lot numbers as possible I can tell you they are just fine. Rarely, you may have a anvil fall out of a primer which will still fire but you really want to catch them to be 100% safe. The standard deviation with wolf primers and a good OEM powder is simply unbelievable even at very high velocities. They are actually a little shorter than cci or winchester primers which means you may need to do a little modifications to your equipment if you run automatic or "Touchy" machines. The only thing to watch out for is choosing the proper primer for the job as many have already explained. I haven't used them in our general ammo available to the public but we have loaded them for special contract runs (now over 700k used) with only good reports from our clients. They also seem to be very well sealed against water or oils which is a very good thing.

Hope this helps.

USSR
September 28, 2009, 10:55 PM
david tubb uses wolf primers??

at one point he did say he used some russian primers, but i'm pretty sure they weren't wolf...

D. Manley has it right. The Russian primers were originally imported by Bob Jones in Phoenix, AZ and were simply packaged using the KVB designation. David Tubb thought so highly of them that he bought 700,000 of them. I bought 5,000 of them myself, and still have about 3,500 left that I save for competition. Then, they were produced under the PMC brand for a couple years, before finally being produced under the Wolf brand name. Great primers.

Don

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