[warman]

Well, I sorta made a mistake but it might not be a mistake. Since my knowledge of revolvers is so limited I need some help.

I was looking for a .357 mag to carry. I looked at a few (a S&W M60 and a 640), then he had a used S&W 19-4. I didn't ask, but the gun looks brand new, I swear that it was probably only shot once (6 shots). I will post a pic when I pick it up Saturday or Monday.

It really fit my hand better than the others. It is slightly bigger but weighs about the same and really isn't that much bigger to me. I can still conceal it.

I didn't realize the gun was made in the 70's, it honestly looks almost brand new - polished nickel I think and absolutely no visible wear on the grip.

I was going to wear it out at the range and CC it and use it for my home protection but can it handle the newer powerful .357 ammo of today? Would I be better to try and preserve it?

I'm interested in your experienced opinions as I'm really feeling like a noob right now, but I am getting a nice revolver so I'm not that disappointed. The workmanship is amazing.

[Phydeaux642]

I wouldn't shoot the 125 grain .357s. It is my understanding that these are a bit hot and could lead to a cracked forcing cone. S&W have no more barrels available for the model 19, so, shoot it but treat it kindly. A lot of folks stick with .38 to plink with.

[rcmodel]

Newer .357 ammo is less powerful then it was when your gun was made.
SAAMI dropped the pressure limit about 5,000 PSI several years ago.

The only caveat with the model 19 is a steady diet of 125 grain JHP "may" cause the forcing cone to crack.
I have my own personal opinion on the "real" reason for this, but won't get into it here.

Stick with heavier bullets and don't worry about it.

The 19 was developed for LEO use back in a time when they shot tons of .38 Special lead bullet ammo in practice, and then loaded Magnum JHP's when they went on duty.

Remington also makes a .357 mid-range load that will offer better control and less blast & flash for CCW/HD use. And don't rule out .38 Spl +P SD loads either.

rc

[DRYHUMOR]

It's been years since I had one; but it's a good, solid gun. There are a few choices out there for different grips if you have a mind to.

If your going to carry it, do so and don't look back. The nickle will wear, but so would blueing.

As stated, .38's are good for plinking, and cheaper too. But don't forget to practice with the .357's once and awhile also. There is a noticeable difference in recoil, you need to be ready for, should you need to use it.

[Pistol Toter]

All the above advise is spot on. The "K" frame S&W's in my opinion are the best of the best of the best. I own a number of the .357 K's and several more .38 spl K's. They balance well in the hand; the 4" handle recoil well, point/aim like a laser. The 125 grn .357's are not recommended as already stated. That problem was allevitated with the advent of the "L" frame as the forcing cone is made differently. A primer on that subject can come latter or you can likely do a search and find all the info on that subject. If you are going to shoot .357's stay with the 147grn and 158 grn loads. Proper attention and care the gun in the condition you describe will be around and just getting broken in good when you are pushing up daisies. For a carrying gun, you could get something different but none any better. I carry a Ruger SP101 2.25" but only because I collect S&W instead of using them. Dumb ain't I? You bought a wonder, tried and true piece. Enjoy her.:D

If you wish look on the bottom of the grip frame givng the letter prefix and the first 3 or 4 number followed with X's to fill out the rest of the Serial Number and one of us can give you the year it was made.

[Ala Dan]

Congrat's on the new find, a S&W model 19-4~! ;) Please heed the
previous warnings, and AVOID shooting the HOT 125 grain .357 mag
ammo; and your weapon will last many year's, provided it is properly
taken care of~! :cool: :D

[JustinL]

My model 19 is one of my favorite range guns; it is a great buy. I have no doubt you will be very happy with it.

[joed]

Congratulations, you just bought my favorite S&W revolver of all. As you've noticed it fits your hand like a glove and just feels terrific for balance.

The model 19 was designed by Skeeter Skelton a LE who came up with the idea of a .357 on a .38 Spl frame. His reasoning was that the large frame .357 was to heavy to carry all day.

This gun was designed to be a .38 Spl that can occasionally shoot .357's. It's at it's best shooting .38 Spl rounds at the range and .357 mag for carry.

If you shoot the 158 gr mag loads the gun will probably out live you. It's down fall is the 125 gr mag load. The latter causes cracking of the forcing cone eventually from the force of the bullet.

There are no more barrels available for these guns so keep that in mind.

[S&W-Keeper]

The 19-4 is a fine revolver. It is the last of the pinned barrell, and recessed cylinder model 19"s.They are a good all around revolver,but were not designed for a lot of 125gr ammo.

[warman]

Thank you all so much for all of the information. It is very helpful. I feel so much better about getting it. I could just see that the workmanship is way above many of the other newer models and it just felt right.
I appreciate all of the ammo recommendations as well, that is very valuable.
Thanks for sharing the knowledge!
I will post pics when I pick it up!

[BCRider]

If you want your practice to more closely resemble the .357 rounds then try out some of the .38Spl +P or +P+. Enough life to them that suddenly switching to a .357Mag round won't startle you. Hell, if you look into them you may find that the +P or +P+ is fine for SD use as well.

Ammo power opinions not withstanding you've got a great gun there. I love my own blue Model 19. It's served me well in a number of matches already.

[Stryker60]

"
The model 19 was designed by Skeeter Skelton a LE who came up with the idea of a .357 on a .38 Spl frame. His reasoning was that the large frame .357 was to heavy to carry all day."

No offense, but I think you are confusing Skeeter Skelton with Bill Jordan. It was Jordan who pestered S&W to bring out a .357 on the K frame for police officers. It was his trademark, fitted with Jordan Trooper grips by Herrett and carried in the drop holster he also championed.

Stryker60

[madcratebuilder]

The M19 is Bill Jordan's baby. A S&W classic.

[Sport45]

I didn't realize the gun was made in the 70's, it honestly looks almost brand new - polished nickel I think and absolutely no visible wear on the grip.


Enough of this! Where are the pictures? :)

[MagnumDweeb]

Welcome to the club, I've become an unintended collector of model 19s. A neighbor of my parents is a retired DEA and Sheriff's Deputy(retired from the Sheriff's department and joined the DEA). He's got tons of guns, more than I think I will ever own. He's been paying me to paint the outside of his house, the inside, build a new deck for him(just replace the old rotted wood with new and stain and preserve), install new toiledts and sinks in his house, lay new carpet, etc.etc.. So I've got three Model 19-4s, one 19-5, and two 19-6s. All brandnew and mint looking. He's kind of a hoarder, I had to help him throw out old newspapers from five years ago.

All but one of the 19-4s sit in the back of my safe with my Romanian Tokarevs. The one I shoot is in 95% condition as oppossed to new. I only shoot .38 special through it. With the whole issue with shooting .357 I'm too reluctant to shoot it with hotter ammo. It's got be 140 grain or heavier. I know it's silly. I wish I could bring myself to shoot the guns, but with them being out of production...I'd trade one of the 19-4s for a Ruger GP100 with a 4". Oh and it is the sweetest shooting gun there is for .38 special that I had ever had the pleasure of firing.

[vanagon40]

I'm hoping to pick up my new purchase tonight (19-3).

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb215/vanagon40/193snub.jpg

[LTR shooter]

They balance well in the hand; the 4" handle recoil well, point/aim like a laser.

I'll second that! I have the stainless version of the 19 which is of course the Model 66. Mine is a 66-1 with the 4" barrel and the balance is nearly perfect! Every Smith fan should own at least one 19 or 66!:D

[warman]

Great stuff guys. I never knew there were so many model 19 owners.
I'm in the 3 day waiting period so the soonest I can get pics up is Saturday.
BTW it is the 2.5" nickel plated model.
Thanks again for all of the great comments. I'm already proud that I will own one of these.
Thanks again!

[joed]

"No offense, but I think you are confusing Skeeter Skelton with Bill Jordan. It was Jordan who pestered S&W to bring out a .357 on the K frame for police officers. It was his trademark, fitted with Jordan Trooper grips by Herrett and carried in the drop holster he also championed.

Stryker60"

And that is the second time I've made that error in the past month! Don't ever grow old.

[Ron James]

Yes, you have to be careful of those antique guns made way back in the 1970's. Why, back in those olden days they probably didn't even know what real steel was and used beer cans for barrels. Did they even have cars back in those days or were they still using Mastodons and buggies. :)

[greenlion]

From some of the posts here you get the feeling that this gun will spontaneously combust if you fire a .357 round out of it. With a short tube on it like that, I don't know how much velocity advantage you would truly gain with magnums, but I have thousands of rounds through a model 19, many of which were magnums, and it is still in good mechanical shape. I'm not going to feed 1000 rounds of hot magnum ammo through it in a year, but I don't think you need to baby it THAT much.

[35Rem]

"the newer powerful .357 ammo of today"

That kinda made me laugh. The original 357 ammo was hotter than what's out there today. And that was in the 1930's.

Stick with the 158 grain loads and you won't have a problem. It's a great gun and I, like the others, am ready to see some pics.

[Archie]

All right! I still miss my mastodon and I will not tolerate anyone making fun of her. She got me out of a terrible blizzard in the last Ice Age and you young'uns just don't get it.

Any of the pinned barrel M19s are simply a delight.

[porschedog]

I bought a 19 within a week of handling one for the first time. That was many years ago but it still is one of my favorites.

[Racinbob]

My most beloved. My late father's 66 bought new in 82. Ya just can't beat a 19 or 66.

[Racinbob]

Oops! I meant to have a pic. Tried again, won't happen for some reason.

[gearchecker]

The 19-anything to -4 is one of the finest out there. The only issue as mentioned many times earlier is the 125 gr. bullets and the forcing cone cracks. Mainly caused by a combination of 2 things and it doesn't happen to all of them.
1st) the 125 gr is a hyper velocity bullet that is shorter than the heavier loads.
It seems that it pushes a nose first air wall shock wave into the forcing cone.
2nd) the barrel is milled down on the bottom to allow the larger and larger diameter magnum cylinder fit into the K frame. This obviously weakens the barrels forcing cone.
I just traded my 2-1/2" Model 19 for a Model 69 4" and the barrel/forcing cone is the same design. I won't shoot any of the lighter 125 Gr. loads out of it either.
http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv72/gearchecker/Model%2019-3/100_0088.jpg
http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv72/gearchecker/SMITH%20Model%2066/2009_0724model660011.jpg

Just a simple note. It was designed for the longer casings of the .357 Magnum.

If you do decide to shoot the .38 Specials in any load size, pay special attention to the powder and lead fowling in the front end of the cylinder. It's caused by the shorter casings and longer cylinder wall.
Some shooters use a spent .357 casing, ground razor sharp, and push it thru the front of the cylinder to scrape away the buildup and keep it under control.

Enjoy your revolver.

[warman]

I picked my pistols up today ( I also bought a .45 SA), here are a couple pics of it and a link if you want to see more detail. It's not perfect, I found a couple of cosmetic flaws but it still seems like it has very low mileage.
The grip does make me wonder about it a little. Everyone who showed their pics have the wood grips and mine is rubber-like (don't get me wrong I like the feel) so I'm wondering if their stock or aftermarket. I think that's what made me think it was a newer model before I found out it was a 19-4. Anyway hope you all enjoy, feedback is appreciated!

22 Pics Here (http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/warmansfootball/Guns/SW194/)

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/warmansfootball/Guns/SW194/th_sw194a.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/warmansfootball/Guns/SW194/?action=view&current=sw194a.jpg)
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/warmansfootball/Guns/SW194/th_sw194b.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/warmansfootball/Guns/SW194/?action=view&current=sw194b.jpg)
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/warmansfootball/Guns/SW194/th_sw194d.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/warmansfootball/Guns/SW194/?action=view&current=sw194d.jpg)
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/warmansfootball/Guns/SW194/th_sw194e.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/warmansfootball/Guns/SW194/?action=view&current=sw194e.jpg)
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/warmansfootball/Guns/SW194/th_sw194j.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/warmansfootball/Guns/SW194/?action=view&current=sw194j.jpg)
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/warmansfootball/Guns/SW194/th_sw194stuff.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/warmansfootball/Guns/SW194/?action=view&current=sw194stuff.jpg)

[HuntAndFish]

That revolver and an Ultrux revolver holster from hoffners (http://www.hoffners.com/holster.htm) will make you a happy camper.

If you do change the grips back to an original design, you'll want a T-grip (http://www.t-grips.com/)as well.

[medmo]

Outstanding find and an outstanding choice for an all around handgun. I have four different 19's and one of them routinely is carried for CCW. No disrespect intended for previous comments posted but I think the "Don't shoot hot 125 grain loads" warning has grown into legendary urban myth proportions. I don't doubt the facts that there have been some cracked forcing cones but you can discount the notion that one box of hot 125 grain loads and "poof" your forcing cone is cracked. If someone did have the mind to pump thousands of rounds of hot 125 grain loads throught there K frame and did crack the forcing cone a replacement bbl could be found at Gun Parts or Jack First with relative ease. Factory ammo loaded a few decades ago was loaded hotter than what is currently produced. The Federal 125 grain personal defense load is still one of the best, (if not THE best), hand gun round for self defense. For short bbls it would be worth while to check out some of the various factory loads engineered for short bbl'ed guns. Any stuff factory loaded today will be fine. Any revolver or semi-auto will have accelerated wear if lots of Super +P +P Screaming Hot Loads are run through it. Run cheaper/lower pressure 38 Special range ammo for practice and fun. Sight in the revolver with higher pressure defense loads for carry and shoot occasionally for sight check/refamiliarization than you should have no problem passing this revolver on as a functioning heirloom. Hogue Bantam grips for K Frame Round Butt are excellent grips for CCW as they offer a good grip and are concealable. Reloads for CCW can be easily toted around using Bianchi Speed Strips. Enjoy and good luck with the new find.

[shooterjon]

Just traded my 19-5 2" barrelled blue for a 19-5 4" with better bluing . Did i make a mistake? Really liked my shorter one but didn't like shooting the occasional Magnum through it. I figured the 4" would be more versatile . And don't have a CCW so the concealibilty of the smaller isn't a issue. Any Input? Thanks Jon

[shooterjon]

Also never noticed on the old one but the 4" has two different numbers stamped on the frame and the cylinder housing . The frame read ADR 4XXX and the cylinder housing is stamped 56XXX with a big E15 by it. I never noticed on my short barrel but is this normal or has the gun been rebuilt?. Thanks Again. Jon

[Iggy]

The number on the grip frame is the serial number. The ones in the cylinder opening are assembly numbers and mean nothing to anyone except the guys building the gun.

Your gun was probably built in 1984

[Bo]

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk291/bosbar72450/thDSCN05860088.jpg
Picked up this 19-3 for $260.00. I feel like I stole it. The owner was asking $225.00, I told him I didn't have change.

[Walkalong]

A 4" Model 19 is a great gun. You won't regret buying it, if you do.

[shooterjon]

Thanks . I know I can't go wrong with a S & W 19-5 but I just wanted to make sure and thanks for the serial number info. This will take its place next to my 100% Python and my Colt Trooper. Drool Drool. I am a lucky man .

[friscolatchi]

I'd like to confirm all of the above. I purchased a 19-4 blue in 4" a few months ago for 400. I had to choose between a GP100 $500 or the 19. After much internet search and readings as well as THR, I opted for the 19. It's been the gun that I shoot the best. You can't go wrong. I't like driving a classic car from the 70's. Stick to the 158's. S&W doesn't have replacement barrels. FYI.

[msrtex]

Good choice. I have a 2 1/2" model 66, a 4" model 19, and a 6" model 19. I love shooting them all.

[medmo]

Outstanding! The S&W Combat Magnum is still an excellent choice. I have 3 with the short bbl's. The "don't shoot 125 grain ammo" theory is nothing but a steaming pile of horse puckey, (no disrespect intended to previous posts). S&W had a multitude of reasons for forcing cone cracks on the K frame. At that time most LEA agencies carried the K frame magnums and used 125 grain ammo. There was literally a ton of Combat Magnums in LEO holsters shooting this load but very few failed with forcing cone cracks. Was there an unmerited correlation to this combination? Yes, of course. Enjoy it, love it and shoot what ever load is most accurate and gives you confidence. The Federal 125gr SJHP is still a step above everything else as a self defense load. Bianchi Speed Strips are an excellent way of carrying reloads and with some practice they are speedy.

[tipoc]

On the M19 and .357 Magnum ammo:
A shooter can fire many thousands of rounds of .357 through their M19s without problems provided that you keep the area of the forcing cone clean and free of lead and the gun properly tuned.

When the Combat Magnum (M19) was introduced the idea behind it was that a fella would shoot primarily .38s through it and sometimes .357 loads. Now even though S&W beefed up the area of the yoke on the M19 there is not a lot of meat on the frame in the area of the forcing cone. That area of the frame is tapped to accept the threaded barrel and is thinner than it looks.

Some problems with some guns began to arise in this area. Most of the problems were connected with two things. One was lead build up in the area of the forcing cone combined with the widespread use of hot jacketed rounds and the other was shooting guns that were out of tune. Shooters who fired a lot of lead bullets followed by jacketed rounds experienced some problems when the lead was allowed to build up and not removed from the area. When jacketed rounds went over the areas where lead was it increased the pressures in the thin area of the forcing cone.

Many shooters have experimented with the M19 and various loads of .357 over the years and published their results in gun mags etc. (there has been a thread running for about 4 years over to the S&W forum where a fella has been firing nothing but 125 gr, JHP loads through his M19 and reports now and then on where he's at with it.) The results generally are this: Keep the guns clean and free of lead build up and properly tuned and they can last many thousands of rounds on any .357 you may want to put through them. If shot while out of tune they take more of a battering in the area of the forcing cone then L or N frames and this can lead to cracking as well.

tipoc

[bflobill_69]

It is an absolute pleasure to shoot... This is a gun you will never part with

Bflobill69