[gym]

There seem to be a lot of really expensive 1911 type pistols that go up every few months. Is this a market that you can take advantage of if you buy high quality Colt, S&W, type pistols. If so can you make more than banks pay now in the way of interest. And what type of firearms do you think are a good investment, if any?

[Mags]

Why think of the hobby in that way?

[nalioth]

It is illegal to buy guns for investment purposes.


If you don't have an FFL, buying guns for resale (tomorrow or 10 years from now) is illegal.

[IndianaBoy]

You would be very hard pressed to turn it into a money making venue.

The possible exception is good quality machine guns, and there is always the chance that congress will turn them into scrap metal with the stroke of a pen.

[oneounceload]

If you REALLY want to make money, the stock market and foreclosed homes are your besy bet - NOT guns

[browningguy]

It is nearly impossible to make a decent return on standard production guns, unless you can steal them of course, and custom guns are even worse.

But if you must, then buy the highest quality "special" guns from a top manufacturer. As examples I have a couple of Renaissance Grade Brownings that have gone up in value a lot since I bought them, they have probably average 8-10% over the past 10-15 years, although they could down in value just as easily. I would look at factory guns with high end engraving as about the only real opportunity, but you have to be prepared to wait 5-10 years to see any real increase.

[Corey]

Just remember all investements carry risks, including the loss of principal. Past performance is not a guarrantee of future returns.
Buy stuff you like because you like it and will enjoy owning/using it. If it increases in value that is just a bonus.

[oneounceload]

Any high-end engraved shotguns - and by high end I'm NOT talking about 2-5,000, but 50K and up will go up generally because the engraving is one of a kind. Example - Bertuzzi brothers - they're now in their 70's and retiring - their small firm only made a dozen or so guns a year in the first place, making them fairly rare and expensive to boot. Once they retire, their guns will have more value - like the dead artist analogy

Even if you buy rare special editions - say a Colt - now you've narrowed your market to only those folks who collect such things - very small niche market - that can be very risky

Now, if you buy a really good target shotgun - like Perazzi, Kreighoff, etc., and use it, but keep it in pristine condition - in about 5-10 years you'll be able to sell it for at least what you paid for it, maybe more - so your "return on investment" was the usage you got to enjoy at basically no cost (gun-wise) to you. THAT'S where better guns differ than the basic black plastic pumps

[LubeckTech]

Making money on production guns would be problematic at best and to do it (or any other type of gun commerce) legally would require a FFL. As long as you were licensed I can't see where buying guns for "investment" purposes would be unlawful as that is what dealers do - buy for one price to sell at a higher price which is also what investors do. Guns, or anything else, you could make money on would ones that are work of art type of engraved guns, comemoratives, antique or very rare like artillery lugers. The thing to remember is that any type of investing is a form of gambling and while you could win big you could lose or make make only a little bit for all the time, energy and risk you put in. If you enjoy what you invest in you should have fun even if you make little return.

[gym]

I was a trader so I am aware of the "alternative markets, "for the gentleman giving alternatives like the "stock market", That wasn't the question, and I did purchase another home in June of this year, so I really don't want to go there again. I am looking for other asset classes to diversify in. Guns just seem to continue rising at a rate of more than 10%, so they become viable at that point. Unless of course this is the top. Muscle cars are also in demand, but I like guns more and they take up less space.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Machine guns, yes, sure, if you can afford them - they go up in value ONLY, not down. Unless the gov't repeals teh 86 ban.

[Zoogster]

Most quality guns seem to just about hold thier value. That is after you adjust for inflation, they are not too far ahead. That is better than most hobbies or adult toys where the hobby items drop constantly in value though.

If you bought it new, the difference between the new and used price can offset any gains over many years.

Purchasing a firearm specifically to resale it is something you should be careful about. Doing it with enough popular firearms to equal a sizable investment could cause the ATF to take notice of you.

The increase in guns in the last year is significantly out of proportion and is not a good indication of future performance. People were worried, a very anti politician was elected, with an anti congress majority, and demand skyrocketed. So high that there is not much room to go higher, especially in this economy, even if a ban was proposed tomorrow. So they should go down in value over a few years, adjusting for inflation, as the equilibrium of the market is reached.


Many guns purchased a few generations ago have not increased in value much over inflation. There is exceptions, like "machineguns" due to artificially limited supply through legislation.
But you cannot gamble on legislation to reliably work in your favor. In California for example the "assault weapon" ban grandfathered the weapons of those who registered them. However they can never be transferred to another non FFL California resident, and must either go out of state, or be surrendered upon the death of the owner. They are essentially not transferable to most of the market they held increased value in prior to the ban.
If such criteria existed in a national level ban the value of the weapon would plummet rather than increase.


Another concern with putting too many eggs in the gun basket is they are something people can lose the right to possess. You may not plan on becoming prohibited, but a problem with a spouse, girlfriend, or restraining order, or various felonies could instantly destroy the investment.
Even if you didn't actually do the crime, that does not mean you wouldn't be found guilty.
I had a friend who had his girlfriend punch herself in the face leaving bruises and a bloody lip, and then call the police to get him arrested because he cheated on her. She later bragged about it and teaching him a lesson. (Before the Lautenburg Amendment.)
I have known people charged with possession of drugs because they were in a vehicle with someone who had drugs they were not even aware of.
My point is you may never plan or expect to become prohibited, but if you did, and had your retirement based around your collection, it could be quite damaging.
Invest in an asset not so easily seized or demonized.

[CoRoMo]

It'd be nice to know which gun is going to someday be worth ten times today's value, but there's no way to know that.

[Cosmoline]

It is illegal to buy guns for investment purposes.

You're overstating it. The law prohibits you from engaging in business buying and selling arms without an FFL. It does not prohibit you from investing your money in rare firearms. There is no law prohibiting you from buying low and selling high, though obviously if you actually manage to get some profit from the exchange there may be IRS issues.

However, "a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms" or "a person who makes occasional repairs" or "who occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms" is not considered "engaged in the business" and is not required to obtain an FFL.

http://www.nraila.org/issues/factsheets/read.aspx?id=70

There is no reg saying that the moment you make any profit off the exchange you have to have an FFL. You are not required to sell at a loss. Of course if you take things too far you will effectively be in the business of buying and selling firearms. It's the difference between buying for your collection which you MAY one day sell for retirement money vs. buying a hundred crates of SAR-1's to resell at the gun shows.

[Kindrox]

Could you ever make money investing in guns, well ignoring machine guns, since it was a legal change that caused that.

[jim in Anchorage]

One of the best gun investments I made wasn't even a gun. I bought Dean Whitaker's book the model 70 Winchester 1937-1964 new in 1980 for 20 something bucks and now they are getting $500.
All the investment grade Winchesters I have bought over the years have done well. The key is are you looking short term or long? Buying guns with the idea of turning them over in a year at a 25% profit is unrealistic. Buying guns that already have collector interest[Winchesters ,Parkers, Colts, etc] and holding them long term will show at lest a fair return.

[gym]

Some very good explanations here thanks for your informed responses

[theotherwaldo]

I do not buy guns with the intent of selling them. In fact, I have only sold a handful of guns when under extreme financial duress.

That said, many of my guns have gone up a great deal in value.

That's because I seek out guns that are bottoming out in value. Unpopular, older guns with out-dated accessories. Milsurps that haven't attracted a following. Guns with minor but unsightly flaws. Orphaned and despised self-defense pistols and revolvers. All of the fun, sometimes difficult, often challenging guns of the last century that aren't already in the ascendancy among collectors.

That's what I seek out to purchase, repair, shoot, and collect.

Yes, they are going up in value. That's at least partially because they couldn't drop much further.

[D94R]

You sounded like a short-term buyer in your first post, and the only thing that comes to my mind is this.

You buy for retail expecting to make a couple hundred dollars in a few months to a year. Ask yourself if you would be someone to buy your gun (even in NIB and never touched) for the current retail from a private seller, or would you rather go to a FFL, pay the same retail price, tack on the extra little bit of sales tax, and have the piece of mind of knowing that gun is genuinely 100% unused and as NEW as it can be? Even if you were selling it for dollars cheaper I personally would buy from a reputable dealer.

Plus, I don't think selling to make a couple hundred bucks off a firearm is worth it IMO. Too much time lapse from purchase to selling and making profit for it to really offset anything.

[gym]

I was thinking more on the order of say a hundred thousand dollars worth of guns, for say any period of time between 2-5 years. Now I don't know if that means 50 guns@ $2000.00 like Wilson's, or as another gentleman mentioned,a few limited edition shotguns, Beretta, Parker etc. It would seem that the best way to hedge is to spread it out over two or three different catagories. Like a mutual fund for firearms, I was just discussing this with my cousin who is a commodities broker. There are so many variables, it's interesting though. I am certainlly not interested in making a few hundred dollars. Rather an acceptable return on investmant capital. If that isn't viable that's ok, it's only conversation right now and some good points were brought up about liability, legality, etc. But there are trusts, and other legal ways to achieve the end result if it made financial sense. Most of those old colts 70's are sought after and held in high reguard, when compared to some newer or new ones. a lot of companys are re-issuing old models and designs because of the high demand and lack of supply, like S&W with their classic series revolvers. It is an interesting idea that S&W has, just make more of what is in demand.

[parisite]

A few years ago I thought seriously about buying a couple of shipping crate fulls of new SKS rifles and just holding them. I wish now I would have.

Now, a better investment I think would be ammunition by the case. Any caliber really, but especially the military calibers.

[oneounceload]

For 100,000 you could almost get into a nice Fabbri or engraved Purdey....:D

IF I was to try and make an investment that was not pre 86 full auto, then I would be seeking something from Philip Ollendorf, Peter Hofer, Purdey, David Mackay Brown, Fabbri, Bertuzzi or similar and commission a one-of-a-kind engraving from Firmo & Francesca Fracassi, Creative Art or similar...........

Otherwise, I'm thinking energy and health care company stocks

[hogshead]

Henry lever rifle Wal mart $179, Marlin 30-30 $279, Walmart Winchester 30 -30 $269 Walmart, SKS anywhere $175 proably less, Colt ar 15 $800, Mak 90s $350, only two years ago Now Henry $280, Marlin $379, Winchester huh good luck, Sks $300 cOLT AR $1200, Mac 90 $700 You do the math.

[Moonclip]

Yes they can if you have the knowledge to spot bargains and the patience to find the right buyers at right time.

I have turned a $40otd rifle in to $325 within 2 years recently. I also turned a $50otd rifle purchased in 2000 for $700 in 2008.

I didn't buy these rifle with the intention of selling them but when I decided them the profit margin was nice. I wish I could turn such a profit on every gun I sold but I have done 100% profit margins mroe than a few times.

Here is some observations. Quality names, especially guns like most Colts and Winchesters in decent shape always have a following and seem to raise in value. Guns like Star, Taurus can be decent but resale can be poor. Don't buy such names at a premium price.

Milsurp is generally best pruchased at the time it is being actively imported in larger numbers. Guns like Chinese SKS's could be had for $80 in my ara during the time they were beinbg imported. Now $250-350+++ is more like it. Swede Mausers were $100 or so in late 1990's, now $250-300+ is common.

Hit the gunshops and educate yourself. I once purchased an Astra 300 .380acp with 2 mags and a box of Super Vel .380acp. Had some minor finish issues and was priced at $300.

Seller didn't realize Nazi markings on gun and those markings can raise value on these pistols by 100% or so.

[Quoheleth]

Skeeter Skelton, an inveterate gun trader, made a comment something to the effect that if he could make enough on a sale or trade to stay in bullets, primers and powder, he considered himself successful. I try to keep that as my philosophy. I also remember if I lose money that I had X-value of fun factor from the gun. So, if I bought it for $400, had a heckuva good time shooting it, but swapped it for a $350 gun I've wanted for a while, yeah I lost money, but I'm hopefully moving onto another fun gun. I've lost money on trades and made money on trades (judging on value of gun vs value of gun). All in all, I'm probably just shy of breaking even.

But it's fun trying!:p

Q

[CWL]

If you wanted to throw $100K into something, you'd probably have better results buying one single share of Berkshire Hathaway Class A stock.

[Moonclip]

I agree, if I only lost $25-50 in a slae but I got to learn about a gun and have fun shooting it it's less painful. I try not to sell guns though unless I really need money, really have no use or need for it or the gun just plain sucks.

[m_kirk2001]

"investing" in guns would probably be best described as "speculating" because there are too many variables out of your control that affect value...

[NC-Mike]

Now, a better investment I think would be ammunition by the case. Any caliber really, but especially the military calibers.


That might be a bad idea right now.

Sellers are choking on the rifle ammo they are still trying to sell at inflated prices on the auction sites.

7.62 x 39 is going for a little over 200 a case again and there are tons of auctions where cases are still priced at 300. I don't think these guys know the rush is over yet. a month ago you might have got 300 a case, today, you would have to be stupid to pay that much.

Hand gun ammo is still pretty high but I bet that starts dropping soon too.

[tribbles]

FWIW, I always heard that the way to make a small fortune in firearms is to start off with a large fortune.