[esheato]

and it wasn't even worth it.

Picture this, Halloween night, downtown Sacramento, and some organization is putting on a haunted house at one of the downtown malls. I figure, what the heck, why not. My girlfriend and I call up some buddies and we all meet there. Of course, I'm legally carrying my Kimber concealed and we wait through about 40 min of lines just to purchase tickets, only to see a large sign by the register that says they prohibit:

firearms, weapons of any kind, cigarette lighters (??) etc...

I had my Kimber on and a Kershaw blade clipped to my pocket. Call me a common criminal, but there was no way I was going back to my truck to drop it off. First of all, I parked in a parking garage (horrible idea, but where else in downtown am I supposed to park?) and second of all, there was no way I was waiting in line again. I had on a long shirt over the gun along with a pretty heavy coat (it was cold and rainy tonight) so I couldn't have printed if I wanted to.

Nobody noticed, and no pat downs before the event so everything went smoothly. I'm not sure what my point is, but just getting my frustrations out.

I would think Halloween would be a perfect opportunity to rob and pillage. I mean, everyone is dressed up and you can't see half the faces....just for an example, say you get assaulted by a clown...what are you going to tell the police? I got assaulted by a guy wearing a clown outfit...he had a big nose and multicolored hair? yeahhhhh, right. Anyway, hope everyone out there had an uneventful evening. Sigh...

...it wasn't even worth it...This haunted house must have been put together by...well, I won't say; but it was BAD. It was absolutely the most miserable experience ever. Not in the least bit frightening.

esheato...

[Carlos]

Get over it.

[BluesBear]

You mean in PRofC you can't legally carry a Bic or a Zippo if they post a sign? :rolleyes:

[michiganfan]

I took my wife and my twelve year old daughter and one of her friends to a haunted house and the line was similar. Well of course everybody in line is saying whatever they can to scare the daylights out of their kids. Well i can tell that is working on my daughter. She all of a sudden says in a voice that is loud enough for half the line to hear : God Dad I hope your carrying your gun.

So I gave her a little lecture that concealed means that no one knows. But the real moral of the story is that my daughter is a little "anti" and when the SHTF even the little anti is wishing for a gun.

[Double Naught Spy]

If what you did was actually against the law, maybe you should not be carrying if you can't abide by the law and then don't have the sense to not admit on a public forum that you broke the law? Carrying comes with a lot of responsibility and descretion, something not shown in the story provided.

[DMK]

I agree with Double Naught Spy. Some folks do whatever they have to do to protect themselves and their loved ones. It's probably best to keep discreate about it before, during and after. The first C in CCW can be an advantage.

That said, I believe those signs usually have more to do with litigation than anything else. If someone was to attack you inside, the owners of the establishment can point to the sign after the fact and argue that they tried to make a safe environment, that they were victims themselves. Until something actually happens though, 95% of your everyday businesses will not take any active measures. They rely passively on the sign to prevent trouble.

[rapaz]

I don't know if you should have carried or not--that is a different question--but I did have a story. A few years back a friend of mine was mugged, on halloween night, by a group of men wearing costumes and masks. He went to report it to the police, and they basically laughed him out of the station when he got to the part about "I was mugged by a gorilla, and Richard Nixon, and a cheerleader...."

[Bily Lovec]

In the great state of Texas,
the signs have requirements they have to meet to be legally enforceable, if they dont meet those requirements, you are "obligated" to ignore them. although Im not a lawyer, but I do play one on TV, I would have done just what you did, comfortable in knowing Im capably of protecting those around me.

[Kobun]

Been in that situation myself.
Some places we turned around and left. (No money to the antis).
Other places we just shut up about it.

[Gary H]

I can understand why a mall might not want gang-bangers fighting it out at the mall on Halloween. That said, it seems to me that without some level of security these are the folks who are going to ignore the sign, so what is the point? I wonder what would happen if you took your gun and put it in the car? What if upon returning you were attacked by a gang banger with a gun. The lack of security might just be a legal liability for the mall. I think that you could have your ghost come back and sue the mall. I think that the Brady folks would be willing to provide your ghost with legal representation. Personally, I would not have posted this on a public board, but then again I'm PARANOID...:uhoh:

[Mike Irwin]

Cigarette lighters I understand.

The last thing they want is someone tipping off a lighter for a little "extra light" and accidentally setting fire to the decorations.

[DMK]

The last thing they want is someone tipping off a lighter for a little "extra light" and accidentally setting fire to the decorations. Good point! That actually happened where I used to live. Some of those decorations can be extremely flammable. A fire in such a dark, crowded and disorienting place can be a complete disaster. In fact, that alone is a very good reason not to go there in the first place.

I can understand why a mall might not want gang-bangers fighting it out at the mall on Halloween. That said, it seems to me that without some level of security these are the folks who are going to ignore the sign, so what is the point? If you are able to enter such an establishment carrying your legally obtained and owned weapon(s), you've got to think: How many violent felons could be doing the very same thing?

Things to make you go hmmm....

[Matt G]

Dunno how things are done in PRK, but I'd be a bit surprised if one were to be considered to have "broken the law", just by ignoring a sign that wasn't worded in an official manner, such as Texas' (amusingly titled) 30.06 sign requirements. (wording specified, size of type specified, prominent place specified.) Generally, at worst, you could just be asked to leave, and issued a Criminal Trespass notice if you failed to. I'd be shocked if there were a crime specified that you could be charged with for bringing a lighter into a haunted house. :)



But, if it IS against the law in Cali, posting on a public forum about it isn't the smartest move, either. :rolleyes:

[morganm01]

I had considered putting something on my ankle before going to one of those block party halloween events last year. I put in on then took it off. When IU got to the event, you stood in a long line, paid then turned a corner and there was a wand waving security gaurd. She frisked the guy in front of me with his arms out. I mentally verified with myself that I had removed my ankle buddy before going out, stepped up to the lady, and she waved my right through. no search , no wand, nothing. Of course I wouldn't want to break the law. And I hope Rosa Parks would have never admitted to doing so on a public forum either!

[Pilgrim]

You broke no law other than trespass in California. If you had been discovered, you would have been asked to leave. If you refused to leave you could have been arrested for trespass.

[4v50 Gary]

Put up a shrine to John Browning, ask for guidance of your bullets and think trigger pull & follow through.

[Valkman]

I think Matt G hit it - I don't believe "No Firearms" signs pertain to my legal CCW. If they want to keep CCW's out it has to be a correctly worded legal sign, or I just carry on in. Yes there are many places who really wouldn't like it if they knew it (casinos for example), but if they found out I'd just be asked to leave or to lock it up. If I know that the place is properly posted I will not carry but if it's not then I will - that simple.

[Mike Irwin]

"Good point! That actually happened where I used to live."

IIRC, they think that people with matches cigarette lighters accidentally setting fire to the decorations is what started the Coconut Grove nightclub fire in Boston in 1942 and possibly the fire at the Beverly Hills Supper Club in Lexington, Kentucky in the 197s.

[son of a gun]

500 people haved viewed this what's the odds of one being LEO ?:rolleyes:

[Jeff White]

500 people haved viewed this what's the odds of one being LEO ?:rolleyes:

At least 3 LEOs and one retired one have posted in this thread....Are you surprised that no one has kicked esheato's door at 4am yet? :rolleyes: Relax I don't think anyone is discussing major capitol felonies here :D

Jeff

[son of a gun]

I just this this topic reflects poorly on his intelligence.:neener: LOL

[esheato]

Half of the people on here are saying that they would have ignored the sign anyway. My intelligence isn't in question here, in fact, I'm not questioning anything..just relating a recent experience.

Maybe the original title was misleading, maybe I did break the law, but I'll tell ya what. I and the people I went with all got home safe and alive.

As far as posting it on here, I just wanted to share an experience. I certainly didn't take time to type out the post just so my intelligence could be questioned.

Thanks

esheato...

[50 Freak]

I did the same thing last night. Went to the Castro district in SF to watch the freak show. Last year it erupted in near rioting and violence from what I understand. So no way I was going in there with my wife without the trusty G27, surefire and titanium MPF folder on my persons. Saw the same signs "no weapons" but figured my permit would protect me should I be searched. Never even came close to searching me.

[Jeff White]

esheato,
You're just relating an experience that everyone who carries a weapon has to live with from time to time. I don't see it as a reflection on your intelligence. Seems to me you were just trying to get the opinions of other like minded people.

Thanks for sharing your experience so we could talk about it.

Jeff

[P95Carry]

FWIW, I don't think the ''intelligence'' angle is in the least bit relevant! There was an occurrence which was described - the rights or wrongs of which bring out different views.

I took it only as it was meant ...... the sharing of an experience...... and I did not read it in fact as necessarily needing the subject line used .. it was much more of a ''transgression'' ..... if it needs a label!:)

[son of a gun]

You guys can't see sarcastic humor if it's staring you in the face.

[4v50 Gary]

You mean nobody understood my joke? :(

[son of a gun]

http://www.gifs.net/animate/setupz.gif :D

[4v50 Gary]

:D :D :D :D :D

[P95Carry]

http://www.gifs.net/animate/setupz.gif

Touché !!

http://www.bedford.net/design/images/smilies/lol.gif

[GhostCat]

Laws are made to be broken......especially some of the BS laws that are on the books....I break the law every day in many different ways.....and I ain't ashamed to admit it.
Hey, if you were to abide by every Law on the Books you would be doomed to be a frikkin PRUDE!!!!!......Oops, I better watch what I say so that I won't break any laws......

GhostCat

[Andrew Rothman]

I did the same thing last night. Went to the Castro district in SF to watch the freak show. Last year it erupted in near rioting and violence from what I understand.

Sounds like, um, AVOIDING the area would be even safer.

:rolleyes:

[50 Freak]

Nope, not letting fear tell me where I can or can't go. Doesn't mean I can't go prepared though.

[esheato]

As of my last post, I was prepared to get on the defensive as sarcasm is sometimes hard to interpret on here. I'm glad we're all having a good time again, except for son of a gun with his installation of humor....that just isn't funny man. :neener:

esheato...

[buttrap]

Some stores here in Oregon put up signs like that over or on their doors,really does not mean squat if you are legal unless it has a ORS. code under it and they cant do that on private property. The most they can do is tell you to leave. Now if it has a fine print quoting a legal code thats a differant story..you see that on Courthouse and Police offices that have holding cells. The rest is just their opinion as a property owner and a tresspass issue if you dont leave when asked is all.

[harpethriver]

Esheato-hope you aren't losing any sleep over this one-those pangs of guilt might be construed as creeping liberalism. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six. Laws lacking in logic(most of them) are meant to be broken when common sense dictates. I wouldn't worry about it unless you're telling us you feel naked without your gun-that's an entirely different matter-and we don't want to go there on this site anyway.

[bogie]

Back when I was a kid, I was in the Jaycees. We put on haunted houses for charity every year. Made some good $$ for the charity too (took needy kids xmas shopping).

The LAST thing we wanted in the thing was someone with a weapon. Hey, we did a GOOD haunted house, and we definitely gave folks their money's worth. We had several incidents where a customer would wig out, and "defend himself" (generally just punching/kicking) against the monster who was about to "assault" him.

Bogie
The Mummy

[ElToro]

What I want to know is... how did you get a CCW in PRK ? i see you're from Marysville, is the CLEO there pro2A ?

[Andrew Rothman]

I did the same thing last night. Went to the Castro district in SF to watch the freak show. Last year it erupted in near rioting and violence from what I understand.Sounds like, um, AVOIDING the area would be even safer.Nope, not letting fear tell me where I can or can't go. Doesn't mean I can't go prepared though.There's a difference between fear and common sense. If there is a high probability of riot and violence, and given that a gun isn't a magic shield against harm, discretion seems the better part of valor.

John Farnam says:
The best way to handle any potentially injurious encounter is: Don't be there. Arrange to be somewhere else. Don't go to stupid places. Don't associate with stupid people. Don't do stupid things. This is the advice I give to all students of defensive firearms. Winning a gunfight, or any other potentially injurious encounter, is financially and emotionally burdensome. The aftermath will become your full-time job for weeks or months afterward, and you will quickly grow weary of writing checks to lawyer(s). It is, of course, better than being dead or suffering a permanently disfiguring or disabling injury, but the "penalty" for successfully fighting for your life is still formidable.

Crowds of any kind, particularly those with an agenda, such as political rallies, demonstrations, picket lines, etc are good examples of "stupid places." Any crowd with a high collective energy level harbors potential catastrophe. To a lesser degree, bank buildings, hospital emergency rooms, airports, government buildings, and bars (particularly crowded ones) fall into the same category. All should be avoided. When they can't be avoided, we should make it a practice to spend only the minimum time necessary there and then quickly get out.

"A superior gunman is best defined as one who uses his superior judgment in order to keep himself out of situations that would require the use of his superior skills."

(A must-read! http://www.defense-training.com/quips/19Mar03.html)

[P95Carry]

"A superior gunman is best defined as one who uses his superior judgment in order to keep himself out of situations that would require the use of his superior skills." I will second that ..... ALWAYS ............

[G. Glock]

esheato,

I thought your post was good. Although we might risk legal entanglements, I think we shooters NEED to be more outspoken about these matter, and not just to the choir (shooters' bulletin boards).

One of the problems we have is that our sport and hobby is such a "secret" sport, to some extent. For folks who are not shooters and don't really know any gun nuts, such as us, our entire world virtually doesn't exist for them.

They just don't realize there are thousands of people at ranges shooting hundreds of thousands of rounds every day, and that there are thousands of people walking around their city armed and safe. It's not like golfing. Gun stores are not at the mall.

Everybody who carries a gun should write and call the manager/owner any establishment that prohibits firearms. I do this. WE need to let them know that many reasonable people carry firearms and we don't do business with people who don't trust us. Also, they are saying they are taking responsiblity for the results of somebody breaking into our vehicle and stealing a handgun, as well as my safety while I'm in his estabishment, of course.

[Sunray]

"...he had a big nose and multicolored hair?..." It was she crook. Some woman robbed a bank in TO over the weekend dressed as a clown. Hair, nose, white make up, the whole nine yards. Now relax, aside from waiting in a 40 minute line up, their not posting a sign a long way from the door isn't your fault. Then again, where did you expect them to put it?

[esheato]

To answer a few responses:

Esheato-hope you aren't losing any sleep over this one-those pangs of guilt might be construed as creeping liberalism.
Not at all. Creeping liberalism? Ouch, no need to call names. lol ;)

i see you're from Marysville, is the CLEO there pro2A ?
Yes. Sutter and Yuba counties are about a 40 min drive from Sacramento, and the Sheriffs up here aren't outspokenly pro 2A, but they'll approve your request if you go through the hoops. Requirements are an all day course at the college including a pathetically easy shooting assessment ($60), along with the paperwork from the Sheriffs department, which includes background check and interview etc. (around $120 if i remember correctly). You couldn't pay someone enough in Sac. county to get a permit, but they'll give them out up here.

"...he had a big nose and multicolored hair?..." It was she crook. Some woman robbed a bank in TO over the weekend dressed as a clown. Hair, nose, white make up, the whole nine yards. Now relax, aside from waiting in a 40 minute line up, their not posting a sign a long way from the door isn't your fault. Then again, where did you expect them to put it?
My point exactly about the dressed up criminals. As far as the sign...you've got me on that one.

esheato...

[bogie]

Guys, don't forget about something here...

I think we'd all agree that we'd want everyone to be disarmed for a paintball game. For a simunition training session. For anything designed to get the adrenaline going, etc.

Back in the late seventies/early eighties in central Kentucky, we weren't so worried that someone would come into our haunted houses and shoot someone. What we WERE worried about was that someone would freak out, whip out a Buck folder, and try to gut one of the "monsters." We had people get hit, etc., usually by folks who'd normally be the nicest guy in the room, but the freakout factor goes a long way.

So, with a "scare" attraction, I'd _definitely_ want folks disarmed.