The BEST Rimfire of all time!


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Uncle Mike
September 24, 2009, 01:21 PM
Who want's to see the Remington Rimfire Magnum 5mm come back...and in what type, make and class.

CZ or Savage for me...in a sporter weighted barrel bolt action.

And YES...bring the 5mm mag rimfire cartridge back...Please...NOW!

...are you seeing this CZ, Savage, Marlin, TC, Remington, Winchester(FNH) and any others!

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GunTech
September 24, 2009, 01:24 PM
I think the 17HMR is as close to 5mm as we are likely to get.

Uncle Mike
September 24, 2009, 01:27 PM
Naw... the 5mm has many advantages over the 17.

.45Guy
September 24, 2009, 01:48 PM
A Stevens Favorite in 5mm.... Yes please! Damn, like I really needed another project to place on the back burner.... Oh well, I have a ton of Stevens Marksman parts in the bin.... Maybe I'll start with that.

earlthegoat2
September 24, 2009, 01:49 PM
Just let it die. Maybe we should bring back the pinfire too.

Tang419
September 24, 2009, 02:01 PM
These shoot great in my neighbors 5mm

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=230772

Uncle Mike
September 24, 2009, 03:17 PM
Some guys over at Rimfirecentral were commenting on how well the Centurian ammo shot out of a couple old Remington 592's.

Tang419
September 24, 2009, 03:57 PM
He has the magazine fed 592, and his brother has the tube magazine version. He thought his gun was a relic until I ordered that ammo for him.

Uncle Mike
September 24, 2009, 06:13 PM
You know this guy...? Convince him and everyone else you possibly can to call and e-mail whatever firearms manufacturer they fancy and see if we can get a fire started to bring this wonderful round back from the grave.

Maverick223
September 24, 2009, 07:02 PM
Maybe we should bring back the pinfire too.Good idea, Earl. :D

rangerruck
September 25, 2009, 01:42 AM
bolt action, tube or mag fed, and the round really begs for a heavy bbl version, for the pdog towns it will eat up!!!

rangerruck
September 25, 2009, 01:44 AM
check the pic of the rabbit, at the bottom of this page, that got a hair too
close to a 5milly round, coming downrange...
http://www.varminter.com/2008/5mmrrm.html

and remember, supposedly Centurion allready has a hotter load than this, ready for the new rifles to be made, and chambered for it.

Uncle Mike
September 25, 2009, 12:13 PM
yea I saw that yesterday...excellent 'splat' factor!

Mav...have you ever shot the 5mm? It is quite an awesome caliber, it is one of those dudes that was ahead of its time. That is as bad as being a day late and a dollar short in this industry.

Th '5' was billed as being too costly to manufacturer as compared to the 22mag at the time...the mindset back in the day was all about conservatism and caution, anything that didn't 'have' to be...didn't get to be, it was set aside!

By today's 'balls out standards'...we are cranking out unneeded stuff, not just firearms and ammo, as fast as our brains can think it up.

No harm in bringing back a cartridge that was definitely better than what we have now, just the rimfires are lacking in popularity as compared to the days of past, with lands once used for plinking or hunting turning into Wally World parking lots a day of passively popping off with a rimfire is slowly passing.

We are all about a day at the range blazing with the AR...instead of blasting crows out of the corn.

oh...and IF the pinfire was as awesome as the 5mm...yea, bring it back also! hehehehe

rangerruck
September 25, 2009, 12:21 PM
It could also be, that ammo mfgrs are a bit afraid; what if 5mm ammo is bought to the point, that other ammo sales slow down, because now all the varmint hunters are using this for everything coyote size on down, out to 150 or 200 yds? I know, I would rarely pull out the centerfires myself, if I had this. About the only reason I would pull out a centerfire, would be for hog / deer hunting, or long range target.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 25, 2009, 12:25 PM
Naw... the 5mm has many advantages over the 17.

Please elaborate. (Is the 5mm a .20 cal or what?)

Uncle Mike
September 25, 2009, 12:52 PM
The 5mm is a .20 caliber bullet(.2045").
While the 17HMR posses a much flatter trajectory than either the 22MAG or the 5mm it severely lacks in the energy department compared to the aforementioned cartridges.

The 22MAG and the 5mm exhibit nearly identical trajectory footprints with the 5mm out punching the 22MAG in lb/ft Energy.

The 5mm is a necked case, larger at the base just forward the rim and at its shoulder than the 22MAG...to prevent it from being chambered in a 22MAG barrel.

Bullet weights were between 30gr. and 38gr. with the latter being the standard loading. These were pushed to around 2100fps to 2450fps depending....

Centurion is loading the 5mm with a 38gr. JHP at 2300fps. Imagine what it would be with a polymer tipped bullet(V-Max) like the 17HMR uses...WOW!

Like I said...it was a cartridge that was ahead of its time.

Maverick223
September 25, 2009, 01:51 PM
Mav...have you ever shot the 5mm? It is quite an awesome caliber, it is one of those dudes that was ahead of its time. That is as bad as being a day late and a dollar short in this industry.I have not...but honestly don't see what the big deal with the round is...other than nostalgia. It is usually the second guy that develops a new product that is more successful because he had to make his product a little better than the original to survive in the marketplace. :)

natman
September 25, 2009, 02:09 PM
Because the 5mm mag develops much higher pressure than the 22 mag (33,000 psi Vs 22,000 psi), I seriously doubt that you will ever see a semiauto for it, especially after the 17HMR debacle. The Remington bolt actions made for it are unusually strong for rimfires, which might explain why the anticipated flood of 5mm RM guns never happened.

rangerruck
September 26, 2009, 01:36 AM
You allready know how good the 204 ruger is , as a varmint round, out to 400 meters even; it is 4000fps from the muzzle though.
think of the 5mm mag, at 2500 fps, as a downloaded 204, should do great all the way out to 200 yds. In a rimfire,with a rimfire size rifle, with the sound signature of a rimfire, in a little box of ammo, that comes in a cool plastic thingy, you can carry in your pocket, for about 15 bucks for a box of 50. That makes it cooler than the 204 , right there if you ask me.

22-rimfire
September 26, 2009, 10:27 AM
Manufacturers.... build a rifle and I'll buy the rifle. I'll even buy it in a savage single shot.

rangerruck
September 26, 2009, 11:38 PM
I disagree on the trajectory equal to a 22 mag; maybe inside the first 80 yds, after that, I say it is just below the 17hmr in trajectory, out to 150. and then, though I have not checked, I say the trajectory gets even better than a 17 hmr, past 150. Lessee;

Ballistic Trajectory Calculations for the 17 HMR 2650 fps Muzzle Velocities

2650 fps Muzzle Velocity
Range Bullet Velocty Eng TOF
(Yds) Drop (in) (fps)(ft-lb) (sec)
0 -1.50 2650 265 0.00
25 -0.53 2468 230 0.03
50 0.08 2295 199 0.06
75 0.28 2131 171 0.09
100 0.00 1975 147 0.13
125 -0.84 1827 126 0.17
150 -2.33 1688 108 0.21
175 -4.58 1560 92 0.26
200 -7.73 1442 78 0.31
225 -11.92 1333 67 0.36
250 -17.35 1238 58 0.42
275 -24.21 1160 51 0.49
300 -32.69 1098 46 0.55
325 -42.88 1048 41 0.62
350 -54.92 1006 38 0.69
375 -68.99 970 35 0.77
400 -84.96 937 33 0.85

for the 204 bullet, I used a oa bullet lenght of .615, a weight of 35 grains, to split the difference, and a muzzle velocity of 2500 fsp, to split the diff as well.
with a starting b.c. of .2 100 yards as the basic zero;

JBM - Calculations - Trajectory (Drift)
Trajectory
Input Data
Manufacturer: Berger Description: Match Varmint
Caliber: 0.204 in Weight: 35.0 gr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.184 G1
Bullet Length: 0.615 in
Muzzle Velocity: 2500.0 ft/s Distance to Chronograph: 10.0 ft
Sight Height: 1.50 in Sight Offset: 0.00 in
Zero Height: 0.00 in Zero Offset: 0.00 in
Windage: 0.000 MOA Elevation: 0.000 MOA
Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Barrel Twist: 12.0 in Twist Direction: Right
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Wind Angle: 90.0 deg
Target Speed: 10.0 mph Target Angle: 90.0 deg
Temperature: 59.0 F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft
Vital Zone Radius: 5.0 in
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Mark Sound Barrier Crossing: No Include Extra Rows: No
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 4.431 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft Speed of Sound: 1116.5 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 262 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 226 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 129 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 161.6 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.120 lb/in Stability at Muzzle: 1.132
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2516.0 2.254 491.9 0.000 0.0 ***
50 0.1 0.2 0.5 1.0 2281.8 2.044 404.6 0.063 11.0 21.0
100 -0.0 -0.0 2.3 2.2 2060.1 1.845 329.8 0.132 23.2 22.2
150 -2.1 -1.4 5.4 3.4 1851.5 1.658 266.4 0.209 36.7 23.4
200 -6.8 -3.3 10.1 4.8 1657.8 1.485 213.5 0.294 51.8 24.7
250 -14.7 -5.6 16.7 6.4 1481.5 1.327 170.5 0.390 68.6 26.2
300 -26.5 -8.4 25.3 8.1 1326.4 1.188 136.7 0.497 87.5 27.8
350 -43.3 -11.8 36.2 9.9 1197.0 1.072 111.3 0.616 108.5 29.6
400 -66.2 -15.8 49.3 11.8 1097.3 0.983 93.6 0.747 131.6 31.4
450 -96.2 -20.4 64.4 13.7 1024.1 0.917 81.5 0.889 156.5 33.2
500 -134.6 -25.7 81.3 15.5 968.0 0.867 72.8 1.040 183.0 35.0


just look at some of those numbers; ABOUT 200 yards for a max point blank range, of a 5 inch diameter hit zone. Awesome.
also, 161 lbs of energy at the max pbr zone of 229 yards. Awesome!!!

at 200 yds, it has about a 6.8 inch drop, that is 1 inch less than a 17. Awesome.
a 10 mph crosswind , moves it 10 inches at 200. The 17 moves about
15 inches. Also awesome!!!

here is a typical 223 bullet, 55 grains, with a b.c. of .215, speed of 3000 fps with a longer bullet and higher g1 b.c.JBM - Calculations - Trajectory (Drift)
Trajectory
Input Data
Manufacturer: Berger Description: Match
Caliber: 0.224 in Weight: 55.0 gr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.267 G1
Bullet Length: 0.750 in
Muzzle Velocity: 3000.0 ft/s Distance to Chronograph: 10.0 ft
Sight Height: 1.50 in Sight Offset: 0.00 in
Zero Height: 0.00 in Zero Offset: 0.00 in
Windage: 0.000 MOA Elevation: 0.000 MOA
Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Barrel Twist: 12.0 in Twist Direction: Right
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Wind Angle: 90.0 deg
Target Speed: 10.0 mph Target Angle: 90.0 deg
Temperature: 59.0 F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0.0 ft
Vital Zone Radius: 5.0 in
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Mark Sound Barrier Crossing: No Include Extra Rows: No
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 3.423 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lb/ft Speed of Sound: 1116.5 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 332 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 284 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 161 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 453.9 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.157 lb/in Stability at Muzzle: 1.280
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 3012.4 2.698 1108.0 0.000 0.0 ***
50 -0.2 -0.4 0.3 0.6 2830.5 2.535 978.2 0.051 9.0 17.3
100 -0.0 -0.0 1.2 1.1 2655.9 2.379 861.3 0.106 18.7 17.8
150 -1.0 -0.7 2.8 1.8 2487.9 2.228 755.8 0.164 28.9 18.4
200 -3.5 -1.7 5.1 2.4 2326.2 2.084 660.7 0.227 39.9 19.1
250 -7.5 -2.9 8.2 3.1 2170.4 1.944 575.2 0.294 51.7 19.7
300 -13.4 -4.3 12.2 3.9 2020.6 1.810 498.5 0.365 64.3 20.5
350 -21.4 -5.8 17.2 4.7 1877.2 1.681 430.3 0.442 77.8 21.2
400 -31.9 -7.6 23.3 5.6 1740.6 1.559 369.9 0.525 92.4 22.1
450 -45.3 -9.6 30.6 6.5 1611.7 1.444 317.2 0.615 108.2 23.0
500 -62.0 -11.8 39.3 7.5 1491.4 1.336 271.6 0.712 125.2 23.9

notice the max pbr and the pbr are only greater by about 50 yds, though the
energy is 3 x at the max pbr.
At 200 yds, the drop and wind deflection, is only half of the 5mm mag,
again totally awesome for the 5mag!!!!

the 5mag is going about 300 fps faster than the 17 at 200 yds, has over twice the energy,
and less drop by about 1.5 inches, with 5 inches of less wind deflection.
the 5 mag is going about 600 fps slower than a 223 is at 200 yds, not much of a letdown at all
from a centerfire to a rimfire, wouldn't you say, the speed is actually staying consistent.
I say, starting at 100 yds, out to 250, the 5mag numbers are in the range of a 32 or 35 grain hornet, or pretty close. All this coming from a rimfire, that you can easily carry in small plastic boxes, which cost 15 bucks OR LESS for 50, and has about 1/2 the sound signature, and about 1/4 the recoil.

PLEASE, MY GOD IN HEAVEN!!! SOME RIFLE MANUFACTURER; PLEASE MAKE A 5MILLY RIMFIRE RIFLE!!!! MAG OR TUBE FED, TO HANDLE THE HOTTER ROUNDS!!!!

Uncle Mike
September 27, 2009, 12:20 AM
E-mail the manufacturers.... whom ever you like.

helleke
September 27, 2009, 12:36 AM
oh, i like Lever Action must.
http://www.photosnag.com/img/4713/n09x0302vnsn/clear.gif

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