.223 AK other than Saiga?


PDA






Orion8472
September 24, 2009, 04:36 PM
Is there an ak chambered in .223 other than those Saiga rifles?

If you enjoyed reading about ".223 AK other than Saiga?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
nalioth
September 24, 2009, 04:39 PM
Sure.

The Romanians have been exporting them for over a decade. The Sar-3 was imported briefly a few years ago, and today the WASR-3 is available.

You also have the very overpriced Arsenal offerings. . . ( May I suggest you do your research prior to buying one ).

Sorry folks, but I don't consider the Galil to be an AK, and even if I did, I'd not recommend it.

briansmithwins
September 24, 2009, 04:44 PM
Arsenal SLR106FR.

Very nice rifles that will run right out of the box. BSW

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/briansmithwins/leftside.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/briansmithwins/151986557-L.jpg

Orion8472
September 24, 2009, 04:53 PM
The Arsenal looks very good. :)

I'll have to check it out and the WASR-3.

Thanks guys!

GunTech
September 24, 2009, 04:55 PM
I love my Golani. The first one I got had the out of spec receiver, but it was immediately replaced and the current rifle has had thousands of rounds through it with no problem. I did have to modify the receiver to accept the M16 mag adapter, and Galil mags are expensive and usually in only fair condition. Orlites are readily available and work fine, as well as being relatively cheap.

I need to put in a better trigger, but that is really my only complaint. And AK variant that can use M16 magazines. What's not to like?

http://guntech.com/galil/golani-aimpoint.jpg

nalioth
September 24, 2009, 06:39 PM
What's not to like?
The extra 4 pounds? :neener:

The odds of getting a US made doorstop?

The ability to accept M16/AR15 mags isn't limited to Galils, any more. There are at least two vendors producing adapters for any ol' .223 Kalashnikov.

rbernie
September 24, 2009, 06:42 PM
I have a SAR-3 and think well of it.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=102714&d=1249341509

GunTech
September 24, 2009, 06:57 PM
The milled receiver does make for a heavy rifle. Is Century still having problems?

I'll look up the M16 mag adapter for the AK. That's a compelling add on for someone like me who has over 100 M16 magazines.

GunTech
September 24, 2009, 06:58 PM
I do hate the AK rear sight, but at least there a rear peep sight solution.

http://www.tech-sights.com/

GunTech
September 24, 2009, 07:03 PM
Cripes! $110 to $150 for the M16 mag adapter.

atblis
September 24, 2009, 07:04 PM
The Vepr was offered in 223. Not around anymore but they were pretty nice. If you can get your hands on one at a decent price...
http://www.robarm.com/images/5.45_K_MB.jpg

Ian
September 24, 2009, 07:37 PM
There are also Yugo AKs in .223, the model 95s, with underfolding stocks. I don't know how many have been commercially sold, but the parts kits are out there.

briansmithwins
September 24, 2009, 07:59 PM
Until the Pmags came out I wouldn't want an AK that would use AR mags. Why cripple the AK with the flimsy, often broken AR mag?

Pmags, OTOH, approach AK mags in durability.

BSW

Jeremy2171
September 24, 2009, 08:35 PM
I've got two of the Yugo M90/M95s and they are awesome.

One is a standard folder and the other is built as a fixed stock. Get one if you can.....

(not mine.....pic lifted from GB)

I'll try and get some of mine soon.

http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt187/3000FPS/right_full_nf_1024.jpg

nalioth
September 24, 2009, 09:17 PM
There are also Yugo AKs in .223, the model 95s, with underfolding stocks. I don't know how many have been commercially sold, but the parts kits are out there. To my knowledge, ZERO.

The parts kits are indeed "out there". They are under the beds and in the closets of some very wise folks, waiting to be built, or already built.

They're not something you're gonna be able to buy today (unless money is no object).

9mmepiphany
September 24, 2009, 10:36 PM
would it make more sense to go with a AK action that was built with the 5.56x45mm rounds in mind like the:

1. Valmet
2. Galil
3. Sig 556

Isher
September 24, 2009, 10:44 PM
Extra, Extra, read all about it..........

CZ should have a VZ 58 in .223 out by the end of this year.

Now, in case you are wondering what the hell

A VZ 58 is, it is a Czech carbine which purely kicks the snot

Out of the AK/AR/Saiga variants.

The only one I will tip my hat to is the FAL.

Yes, I do know that these will be fighting words for many.

Go shoot one, a VZ, I mean.


isher

9mmepiphany
September 24, 2009, 11:19 PM
i think the CZ would be at the head of the class too and with their track record of quality...this should be a winner

now if i could just get a blocked in 10 round mag model for CA...it already has a built in guide for the stripper clips

nalioth
September 24, 2009, 11:38 PM
would it make more sense to go with a AK action that was built with the 5.56x45mm rounds in mind like the:

1. Valmet
2. Galil
3. Sig 556

Nobody will argue that the Valmet is the King of the Kalashnikovs.

The Galil is twice removed from Mr. Kalashnikovs grand design (it's based on the Valmet, not an AK). They're okay, if you can find one that was made in Israel.

The Sig 556 isn't an AK at all.

9mmepiphany
September 24, 2009, 11:59 PM
The Sig 556 isn't an AK at all.

really?...that isn't what they said at the SHOT Show

they called it the ultimate evolution of the AK

rangerruck
September 25, 2009, 12:21 AM
The Tantal, and the Valmet, I believe, are 223.

GunTech
September 25, 2009, 01:07 AM
The Sig 556 uses a variation of the basic AK internals, as does the FNC.

The Valmet is sweet, and the first Galils were actually made by Valmet. The Century Golanis are made from Israeli parts and US receivers and a few other bit to make them 922r compliant.

There were some serious issues with the early batches that had out of spec receiver. My first one couldn't fire two rounds in a row without a jam. I returned that rifle, and Century replaced it with a new one that has run like a champ since then. I've been pleased with the gun, but it does make for a heavy 223. On the other hand, it's taken some rough handling, and the folding stock is one of the toughest I've run into - it's a variation of the FAL paratrooper. It also has a LOP that fits normal American. J&G has them for $600.

I have to admit that some of the AK's posted have really caught my eye. Give me one with an M16 adapter, rear peep and Galil style grip and fore end and I'd be extremely happy. Just mill off that AK rear sight.

YMMV.

maksim
September 25, 2009, 02:22 AM
love my original vepr in a 223.

9mmepiphany
September 25, 2009, 02:52 AM
The Sig 556 uses a variation of the basic AK internals, as does the FNC.

the FNC...of "Heat" fame

i knew there was one i was forgetting...i used to get it confused with the CAL

nalioth
September 25, 2009, 08:03 AM
The Sig 556 isn't an AK at all.
really?...that isn't what they said at the SHOT Show. . and you believed your car salesman when he told you that Chevette you were looking at corners and accelerates just like a Corvette, too, right?

Sales people will tell you ANYthing to make a sale. The Sig 556 utilizes known principles from many well seasoned firearms designs, but it is not an AK.

The Tantal, and the Valmet, I believe, are 223. The Tantal is chambered in 5.45x39.

You are confusing it with it's successor, the Polish Wz96 or "Beryl" that is currently in use with the Polish military and chambered in 5.56x45.

The Wz96 "Beryl" at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kbs_wz._1996_Beryl)
The Wz96 "Beryl" at Kalashnikov.guns.ru (http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/foreign/hem2.passagen.se/dadkri/Beryl.htm)

Orion8472
September 25, 2009, 10:07 AM
I'm really glad I asked this question! :)

Brenjen
September 25, 2009, 10:37 AM
I owned an AKM 84S-1 underfolder imported by Norinco. So there's a Chinese version as well & it was a good little shooter before it was stolen. They imported them only in 1989 as far as I know. I still had a 200 yard target I chewed the bull out of as proof to the disbelievers that it was a solid performer, even with iron sights.

Now I'm stuck with five original, steel .223 AKM mags I can't use because I'll never get that weapon back.

Orion8472
September 25, 2009, 12:07 PM
Ouch, . . .that sucks that your rifle was stolen. :(


Again, thanks for the inputs on this thread. So, for someone "on a budget", is the Romanian WASR-3 going to be the best option?

What is your suggestion for someone wanting to stay around the $600 range?

briansmithwins
September 25, 2009, 12:30 PM
What is your suggestion for someone wanting to stay around the $600 range?

Get some more money?

The 5.56 AK rifles are more expensive than the 7.62x39 ones. Add in the cost of the more expensive 5.56 mags and the fact that 5.56 is roughly 2X the cost of 5.56.

For $600 you can score a Romy 7.62x39 AK, mags, and a case of ammo. BSW

Orion8472
September 25, 2009, 01:34 PM
My thinking, price wise, was to either get an AK in .223, . . . . or just buy a very good 16" upper for my AR.

RP88
September 25, 2009, 02:12 PM
for $600 you'd be best off doing a Saiga conversion. You will probably go over your budget once you look at how much a .223 30-round mag costs, though - along with the general price of .223.

9mmepiphany
September 25, 2009, 03:43 PM
Sales people will tell you ANYthing to make a sale. The Sig 556 utilizes known principles from many well seasoned firearms designs, but it is not an AK.

it wasn't a salesman, it was an engineer i know

i realize the principles used in the design of the 556, but if they (the factory designers) started from an AK and improved it...it's still based on the AK

why is there such aversion to the fact that the Sig is based on the AK? the AMG C63 is still based on an entry level mercedes, it doesn't make it any less a mecedes...which in much of the world is a taxi

nalioth
September 25, 2009, 03:58 PM
Again, thanks for the inputs on this thread. So, for someone "on a budget", is the Romanian WASR-3 going to be the best option?

No, absolutely not.

Your best choice (budget or not) is gonna be a Saiga.

The Saiga is a brand new rifle from stem to stern.

The WASR - well, you can read up on what they're made of . .



i realize the principles used in the design of the 556, but if they (the factory designers) started from an AK and improved it...it's still based on the AK They did not start with an AK and "improved it". They started with a blank drawing board and integrated known good design elements from several weapons systems.
Sig 556:
http://www.novarata.net/images/SIG556_Side_Folder_Main_m.jpg

The Finns took the AK and "improved it". Today this is the Valmet Rk95 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RK_95_TP), out-Kalashnikoving Kalashnikov. Not germane to this thread (wrong caliber), though.
Finnish Rk 95:
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3917/rk953.jpg

stubbicatt
September 25, 2009, 06:08 PM
Second on the Yugo M95.

Even Kitteh approves:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/stubbicatt/yugo%20model%2095/006.jpg

GunTech
September 25, 2009, 07:11 PM
There's also the SA R4 and R5 for entry into the 'improved' AK.

http://strikehold.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/vektor_lm5.jpg

nalioth
September 25, 2009, 07:38 PM
There's also the SA R4 and R5 for entry into the 'improved' AK. We're veering off the thread topic.

Said topic being ".223 Ak other than the Saiga", ostensibly available for current purchase.

There are well over half a dozen "improved AK" threads here already. . .

Orion8472
September 28, 2009, 01:29 PM
If you wanted to stay around the $600 - $650 range, would it be better to get an upper for my AR (such as from Rock River), or would I still be better served to get a .223 AK?

Girodin
September 28, 2009, 08:50 PM
Is there a reason you don't want the saiga. A modded out saiga is a very fine 5.56 AK.

If you wanted to stay around the $600 - $650 range, would it be better to get an upper for my AR (such as from Rock River), or would I still be better served to get a .223 AK?

this probably depends on exactly what it is you want the gun to do

Murphster
September 28, 2009, 09:09 PM
I once got to fire a very nice Polytech in .223.

Orion8472
September 29, 2009, 10:48 AM
Girodin, I don't want to have to do a modification on a rifle just to get what I really want. If one was already built AND looked good/right, then I'd buy it. I just don't want to try to do such a modification myself.

Hope this helps. :)

edmondsonpr
September 29, 2009, 03:03 PM
VEPR .223 sold by Robinson Arms. The reliability of a rock solid AK spitting Wolf, Remington or any brand of .223! Chromed barrel is very accurate. I picked mine up 3 years ago for $600. It sits and waits for the day...

I believe they go for $1200 now. It was a quality AK.

Dave Markowitz
September 29, 2009, 03:26 PM
If you don't mind a used rifle, a couple options are the Norinco 84S:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/davemarkowitz/Kalashnikovs/Norinco_84S_r.jpg

and the Arsenal SA M5:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/davemarkowitz/Kalashnikovs/SA-M5.jpg

rangerruck
September 30, 2009, 03:39 AM
You know, Atlantic firearms were selling the w. german stg's, and I believe they came in 223 as well. they are quite nice, all converted, plus rail hider, and bbls made on Steyr machines, I think.

nalioth
September 30, 2009, 04:28 AM
You know, Atlantic firearms were selling the w. german stg's, and I believe they came in 223 as well. they are quite nice, all converted, plus rail hider, and bbls made on Steyr machines, I think. Those "w. german stg's" are (were) actually Romanian WASRs with different furniture. These were commissioned by InterOrdnance and when I last looked, they'd completely dropped the line (and sold off the remaining parts as kits).

ALL Kalashnikovs have barrels made with the steyr process - there are no Kalashnikovs that I've heard of that have actual barrels made by Steyr of Austria.

skyflyer
September 30, 2009, 05:19 PM
Find a MAK 90 in 223, very nice shooters

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/skyflyer00/002.jpg

If you enjoyed reading about ".223 AK other than Saiga?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!