[duck911]

Hi all,

I am a relatively new reloader and only a slightly above average shot, so the groups you are about to see are not spectacular. But, these are some of my first reloads and THE FIRST reloads for this rifle, so please bare with me! My goal is a sub-MOA load - doesn't have to be cloverleafs or one-holes, 5's to 8's is perfectly acceptable and anything better is icing!

I need some help on where to go from here...

Gun: CZ 550 Heavy Barrel Varminter Laminate 22-250
Brass: Winchester, brand new, FL re-sized
Powder: Ramshot TAC
Bullet: Hornady 40 gr V-max
WLR primer
COAL: Ramshot default 2.35

Wind: ugly! Blowing out of 11:30 most of the day, 5-10 sustained, gusts up to 25 MPH. Periodically quartering from 10 or 11 o'clock. This certainly had at least a minor impact on my groups (hell, I could see the crosshairs dancing around) but hopefully my data is still somewhat valid...

Down to the data:

Started near Ramshots low end and increased 2% near their max:

Target #1: 33.8 GR
Target #2: 34.4
Target #3: 35
Target #4: 35.6
Target #5: 36.2
Target #6: 36.8
Target #7: 37.4
Target #8: 38

(Max Ramshot load is 38.5 GR)

All loads shot with absolutely ZERO pressure signs.

Here are the groups (targets from left to right, ascending by charge weight)


http://home.comcast.net/~duck911/targets1-2.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~duck911/targets3-4.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~duck911/target5-6.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~duck911/targets7-8.jpg


Here's my take:

Vertical stringing with the low charges has me scratching my head a bit. Checked the action screws and mounts when I got home and everything seemed in order. Don't know. Cold barrel? Wind? Who cares, not really interested in a final load in the low end anyway. :o

I also think there are some fatigue induced flyers, as I sighted in a couple of other heavy recoiling rifles before this little adventure. The wind certainly didn't help, either. Anyhow, enough excuses. It looks to me like targets 6, 7, and 8 show some potential. Target #7 has a nasty flier (not called, but also doesn't fit in with the groups around it and the wind was screaming). Targets 6 and 8 are basically 1 inch groups.

I'd like to shave ~.2 - .3" off the best groups.

If I understand the OCW process correctly, I believe I want to take loads 6 and 7 and start from there. Loads 6-8 all group well but loads 6 and 7 inparticular print to the same area in relating to my point of aim.

I'm considering loading 5 each of 36.8 GR, 37.1 Gr, and 37.4 GR. (Basically, duplicating loads 6 and 7, plus splitting the difference inbetween). I think on a calm day and buckling down on the bench, I can bring in these groups using my logic above. Once I narrow it down between these 3 loads, I can tweak COAL, as well??

Thoughts?

thanks,

--Duck911

Quick edit: Shooting my own relaods is friggin' FUN! And, factory WWB ammo shoots Appx ~1.25" out of this rifle so I am already pleased with the slight improvement on the first try...

[griz]

Looks as if you would have several groups well under an inch if not for the wind. I would say you're on the right track.

[Afy]

Based purely on OBT given a 25.6 in barrel, I would try 36.5 grains which puts you in an accuracy node.

I would load 5 shots each at 36.5, 36.6, 36.8, 40.0 and see how those group.

[something vague]

I myself would also try some load development with group #5. To me this group shows the least amount of verticle stringing. The horizontal stringing is more wind induced, if you did your part.

[Walkalong]

Wind: ugly! Blowing out of 11:30 most of the day, 5-10 sustained, gusts up to 25 MPH. Periodically quartering from 10 or 11 o'clock. This certainly had at least a minor impact on my groups Major, not minor. Looks good. Awfully tough conditions to shoot good groups in. :)

Try again in a calm and you will see those groups shrink significantly.

[Jim Watson]

Agreed, that is good shooting for fleaweight bullets in the wind. Try to catch a calm day for your next go around.
A headwind can cause verticals, also too light loads with a lot of velocity variation will do the same.

[Mal H]

Though you didn't say, can we assume 100 yds target distance?

My thoughts are you should concentrate around the upper end of the loads. To me, it looks like group 8 is the best which is not at all surprising for the 22-250. I've always found mine shoots best near the top of the range. No real need to go to the max and beyond.

In group 8 it appears 4 of your shots are within a 5/8ths inch circle, with the 5th shot making it a 1 1/8th inch group. You might try a "fouling" shot on a few groups (note its location and eliminate it from the measured group) to see if it's the first shot that is ruining the group - it often is.

Wind was definitely a factor. As others have said, wait for a calmer day when you are trying for good groups. On the other hand, windy days help you improve your scope work when the target is varmints. They don't wait for calm days to pop up. :)

[duck911]

Thanks guys for all the feedback:

A few more notes:

Yes, I forgot to mention this was at 100 yards.

Also, a quick word about my process:

The rifle barrel was clean when I left the house. It took me 3 shots to sight it in (new scope) and then I shot a 5 shot group, all using factory ammo. So, by the time I started shooting my reloads for groups, the barrel was warmed up slightly and fouled.

The next 40 shots were all fired from the gun with no cleaning in between. I used the "OCW" method of shooting one round into each target round-robin, but it was slightly modified today: Because the wind was blowing I wanted to eliminate the risk of the wind dying off at the end of my groups. That means I had to fire my 40 shots while the wind was constant(ly bad!).

So, I shot 2 shots into each of the 8 groups to start. Barrel was allowed to cool for a reasonable length of time but most of each of the 2 shots were pretty much back to back. Then a minute or two between the groups. Didn't sit there for 5 minutes between each shot - it can be assumed the barrel was warm (but not allowed to get hot) for all shots. Then I took a break to check targets and let the barrel cool.

Then I put 1 more shot into each group, followed by target checks and barrel cooling again, then finished up with 2 more into each group.

Not ideal, but if the wind was going to be bad I wanted it to be bad for all shots, not just half of them, and the wind was supposed to die down close to the end of my shoot time (nope, I would not have had enough time to shoot wind-free at the end of the day, unfortunately.)

So in short, there were no sighters for each group, because everything was fired from a fouled, warm barrel.

Based on the feedback here, I think I may play around a little more between targets #5 and #6, and also move up on the high end towards max.

My next rounds loaded will probably look something like this:

6 rounds @ 36.4 gr
6 rounds @ 36.6 gr
6 rounds @ 36.8 gr (this was load #6 last time - I will reshoot)
6 rounds @ 37 gr

then on the high end:

6 @ 38 gr (this was target #8 last time - I will reshoot)
6 @ 38.2 gr
6 @ 38.4 gr

I think I am going to shoot all 6 of each weight at once, pulling a boresnake through the barrel a few times before each round, followed by a fouler which I won't count, then all 5. I will shoot in favorable wind conditions if at all possible (eastern plains of Colorado can make that tough).

We'll see what happens!

--Duck911

[Runningman]

Your CZ heavy barrel or just about any 22-250 heavy barrel should do better than that with those V Max 40 grain bullets and even better with 50 grain bullets Nosler B/T and the V Max bullets. If those are only 100 yard groups (?) the wind 5-10 sustained, gusts up to 25 MPH isn't going to be to much of a factor with your groups in a 22-250. Especially if you are timing your shoots below peak wind gusts like you should be doing.

Given a decent rifle and scope and the CZ is a good one. Your groups suggest to me based on my experience with the 22-250 that you need to increase COAL.

I would start pushing COAL out in 015 - .020 increments at 1st. With one of the milder charges such as 34.4 because velocity and pressures will go up as you get closer to the lands. I generally run around 2.425 - 2.450 COAL with the 40 and 50 grain V max bullets depending on the rifle. I always keep the bullet off the lands on the 22-250. Most 22-250 have longer throats than the SAAMI COL would suggest. The 22-250 using can be sensitive to mild changes near max to go slow and easy.

If tunning COAL doesn't help much plan B is......Do you have any Varget powder? Because it may be one of the best powders I've used in the 22-250 with 40 - 55 grain bullets.... I've tried a bunch of powders since I bought my 1st 22-250 in 1974.

[dakotasin]

concur with runningman, here. as someone who constantly shoots in the wind, a 22-250 at 100 should be shooting much better w/ a load it likes. after looking at your groups and combining w/ my own experience, the rifle does not like something about your components.

i would abandon this track completely, and look for something else. i suggest you pick one component, and change it. since i am not a fan of ramshot powders, i would start by finding some h-380 and then re-develop. also, i have yet to find a 22-250 that doesn't do well w/ 50-52 grain bullets. i would eventually change the 40's out in favor of some 50 v-max or 52 sierra matchkings.

a 22-250 develops enough velocity that either of these bullets will perform spectacularly on prairie dogs, but the v-max will be more explosive further out.

[Jim Watson]

If those are only 100 yard groups (?) the wind 5-10 sustained, gusts up to 25 MPH isn't going to be to much of a factor with your groups in a 22-250.

According to Sierra Infinity, a 10mph crosswind will move a 40 gr Vmax at 3900 fps a little over an inch at 100 yards.
If it backs off to 5 mph without you noticing it, it comes back over half of that; a .6 inch change in a heartbeat.
Get caught by one of those 25 mph gusts as you pull the trigger and watch the bullet move over another inch and a half.

I get the impression that the OP might have been so caught up in all those different loads as to not pay much attention to the wind.

[dakotasin]

According to Sierra Infinity, a 10mph crosswind will move a 40 gr Vmax at 3900 fps a little over an inch at 100 yards.


full value wind, i assume?
op says wind was at 11:00, or minimal impact on horizontal stringing...

[rcmodel]

I would also recommend you move up to a 50 or 55 grain bullet.
Specifically, the V-Max, Nosler Ballistic Tip, or other plastic tip bullet.

The 40 grain is great for impressing your friends with 4,100+ velocity.

But they are dismal in the wind, fall off worse at long range, and the 4,000+ velocity translates to short barrel life.

IMO: The 22-250 is at it's best with 55 grain bullets at about 3,600 FPS.

rc

[Jim Watson]

True, I missed that. Plugging in an 11:00 wind gives a 5mph deflection of about a quarter inch, 10mph half an inch and the 25 mph gust over an inch and a quarter. Still significant when you are trying to refine a varmint caliber load.

Then there is the part about: "(hell, I could see the crosshairs dancing around)"

MY .22-250 is most accurate with 52 gr SMKs but does right well with 50 gr Blitz and even the bulk 50 gr Remington PowRLokt. I have not fooled with the flyweight division.

[fireman 9731]

I would try a few different powders and different bullets. My 22-250 loves 50 grainers and Varget powder.

Looks like you are on the right track though!

[Runningman]

My 22-250 loves 50 grainers and Varget powder.

:) Same here, both my 22-250s also really like Varget & 50 grain bullets plastic tip bullets.

[billybob44]

I would also recommend you move up to a 50 or 55 grain bullet.
Specifically, the V-Max, Nosler Ballistic Tip, or other plastic tip bullet.

The 40 grain is great for impressing your friends with 4,100+ velocity.

But they are dismal in the wind, fall off worse at long range, and the 4,000+ velocity translates to short barrel life.

IMO: The 22-250 is at it's best with 55 grain bullets at about 3,600 FPS.

rc
I agree with rc. My 700 Varmit-22-250 likes 52-55gr. bullets at 3400-3700fps. Mostly with BL-C(2). Some loads do well also with W-W 760. Sierra 52 HPBT Match with BL-C(2) at 3550 does 1 hole groups, if I do my part.

[duck911]

Thanks again guys for the feedback.

I hear what you're saying and don't want to waste too much time and money getting this load to work right myself, so I am not necessarily against changing things up. But, I do want to stick with a 40 gr bullet if at all possible. (It's all part of my "Master Plan" for how this rifle should fit in with my .17 FB, .204's, and .223 :neener: :) )

Anyhow, I am a little new to reloading but this was a first attempt with FL resized brass, bullets seated to a short COAL, and poor shooting conditions. You all make it sound like I should have seen nickle sized groups all over the target :D If that's the reality of what SHOULD happen the first time out with a new load, I'm gonna love reloading!

I suspect that I had a few things working against me. If you recall, I stated that I am looking for a load in the 5's to 8's. Any better is just icing. A calm day alone may gain be a few tenths so I am close.

Anyhow, I have an eye our for some Varget. I need it for another application anyways. But I want to give TAC one more try. Mostly because in early testing my .223 and .204 seem to like it, and, I have 16 pounds of the stuff. I also have some H322 I could try.

Plugging in an 11:00 wind gives a 5mph deflection of about a quarter inch, 10mph half an inch and the 25 mph gust over an inch and a quarter. Still significant when you are trying to refine a varmint caliber load.

I think I owe it to myself to give a few of these loads one more chance, in calm conditions. Who knows, that may buy me 3 or 4 tenths. If I see a moderate to significant improvement, I will play with COAL until I have a load that will work.

If that doesn't work, based on all of your experience, I will switch to Varget and the 40 grainer. If THAT doesn't work, I will try a 50 gr Nosler BT (my .223's bullet of choice) with TAC and/or Varget.

thanks again for the replies, I really appreciate it!

--Duck911

[fireman 9731]

If you are really stuck on lighter bullets, I have also worked up some sweet loads with 36gr Barnes Varmint Grenades. 4,400 FPS with Varget!

Very accurate too but I only get a few loadings out of each case.

[Walkalong]

give a few of these loads one more chance, in calm conditions. Who knows, that may buy me 3 or 4 tenths.It will buy you more than that I am sure. ;)

[Rugg_Ed]

I'll go with runningman and dakotasin
I have excellent results with IMR 4320 and H380 with 50 to 55 grain bullets.
Best was 15 rnds @ .25 with one flyer making it a 3/8 inc group.