My vet friends...need help please


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Maestro
January 19, 2003, 02:56 PM
Can someone kindly give the approximate "MINIMUM" numbers of men required for each of the following.I have an idea but would like your input.

An army(number of battalions)
Battalion
Regiment
A Division
A Corp
Platoon
Squadron

Thanks again.:)
Apologies if this has been covered recently.

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Destructo6
January 19, 2003, 03:07 PM
The USMC pretty much works on a rule of threes.

Fire team = 4 Marines
Squad = 3 fire teams
Platoon = 3 squads
Company = 3 platoons
Battalion = 3 companies
Regiment = 3 battalions
Division = 3 Regiments
Marine Corps = 3 divisions

That's without any sort of reinforcement, which any combat unit(s) will surely have.

TarpleyG
January 19, 2003, 04:01 PM
Aren't you forgetting a Division there, Destructo6? What about the 4th? Oh, I see, the RESERVES do not count, right? That's why my battery and battalion was one of the first to get deployed to the Gulf the last go around.

GT

Traveler
January 19, 2003, 04:43 PM
The Army, and reality of the situation, make some of those numbers very flexible.

Here's some answers:

An Army - a number of Corps (not battalions) usually 2 or 3, but can be more. It may include units from different services. For example there was one Army Theater Command for Desert Storm. Commanded by a General (4 Stars).

A Corps - 2 or more divisions. These are within the same service, although they may have attached units from other services. For example at the end of WWII (Europe) Army Corps Commanders had fighter units assigned directly to them. Commanded by a Lt General (3 Stars).

A Regiment - As used in the U.S. this is a group of one or more like units. It is not a combat unit, although it can be made of combat units. (Actually it's a pretty silly idea that has more usefulness on the officer level than the enlisted.) Commanded by a MAJ General (2 Stars).

A Division - 2 or more Battalions and associated detachments. The most common seperate "Divisional" troops are Artillery, Judge Advocate, Medical, and Public Relations. Commanded by a Brigadier General (1 Star).

A Division is the first unit of size to entail all the means and personnel to wage battle independantly. That mean it has everything Combat Arms, Combat Support, and Combat Service Support. Divisions number 15,000 to 30,000 soldiers.

A Brigade is made up of 2 or more Battalions. Commanded by a COL.

A Battalion is 2 or more Companies with a small HQ staff. These are an group of troops with the same mission, but can have a mix of different troops. They fall into 3 main types.

Combat Arms are your guys who actually do the fighting. Tanks, Artillery, Infantry.

Combat Support are the guys who are directly behind the battle. Engineers, Maintenance, Medics, POL (Petrol-Oil-Lube & Water), and stuff like that.

Combat Service Support is all the heavy, slow, stuff. Hospitals, Supply depots, heavy Maint, Replacement Depots, etc.

Battalions are usually commanded by LTC.

Company sized units are made up of troops with all the same mission. There are very few different MOS's (jobs) in a Company. These guys basically are the ones who live with each other. A company is usually 2-4 Platoons. Companies range in size from around 100 to 450 soldiers depending on their missions. Commanded by a CPT.

Platoons are 3-4 squads under the same LT. Sometimes they have mission specific training and equiptment, many times they are identical to the others in the company. That depends on the Army's doctrine.

Squads are small groups of soldiers under the direction of a NCO. Usual size is between 5-14 depending on the unit and doctrine.

MarineTech
January 19, 2003, 05:40 PM
Destructo, your numbers are off. Or they are compared to when I was in (89-94).

For an infantry unit, the numbers were like this.

Fireteam = 4 Marines
Squad = 3 fireteams + 1 squad leader
Platoon = 4 squads + 1 platoon leader and 1 platoon sergeant
Company = 3 infantry platoons, 1 weapons platoon, and a command group (Company CO, Company 1st Sgt, Company GySgt, and about 3 or 4 company clerks)
Battalion = 3 infantry companies, 1 weapons company, 1 Headquarters and Support company.
Regiment = 3 Battalions + 1 Headquarters Company

After that, things go out the window because the Marine Corps does not use the same structure as the Army. A Marine Infantry Division is not only Infantry regiments, it also includes Artillery Regiments, Tank Regiments, Light Armored Infantry (LAIs), and a number of Ad hoc units (ANGLICO, Recon, CITs, AAVs, and other units). In times of conflict, a Marine Division, along with it's Marine Air Wing and Fleet Service Support Group counterparts and broken down into:

MEBs - Marine Expeditionary Brigades
MEUs - Marine Expeditionary Units
MAFs - Marine Amphibious Forces

I wont even get into the make-up of those.

4v50 Gary
January 19, 2003, 05:51 PM
It's actually regiments, then brigades and then division.

The battalion belongs to a regiment. Several regiments are grouped together to form a brigade. Several brigades form a division.

T.Stahl
January 19, 2003, 06:11 PM
I have not yet seen regiments grouped together to form a brigade. It's more like they are both ways to group battalions together before they themselves are joined to form a division. The difference is in the degree of their self-reliance.

Destructo6
January 19, 2003, 07:53 PM
On paper there may be four divisions. My experience in the 3rdMarDiv makes me believe that if it was combined with the reserve forces, it might consititute a real division.

My "Pretty much..." and "...without reinforcement..." made it clear that this was a simplification for clarity. I suppose I could have simply copy and pasted the entire TOE.

http://orbat.com/site/data/toe/usa/marinecorpstoe.html

Traveler
January 19, 2003, 08:05 PM
The U.S. Army Regimental system is unlike that of any other military. It uses a word for affiliation that has other meaning depending on the foreign (to the US) affiliation.

Here from the manual 600-82 "The U.S. Army Regimental System".

e. Provide regiments that are structured as one of the following:

(1) One or more like type continental United States (CONUS) units linked with one or more like type outside continental United States (OCONUS) units.

(2) One or more like type units located exclusively in either CONUS or OCONUS.

(3) One or more training battalions.

(4) Tactical armored cavalry or ranger regiments.

f. Provide for CS, CSS, and special branches to operate on a " whole branch" concept as a corps or special branch, carrying on the activities and traditions of a regiment (chap 4).

g. Offer regimental affiliation to allow soldiers the opportunity for continuous identification with a combat arms regiment, a corps, or special branch throughout their careers.

h. Provide (through regimental affiliation) different opportunities for soldiers, depending upon which combat arms regiment they choose to be affiliated with or whether they affiliate with a CS or CSS corps or special branch. In addition, the regimental affiliation process does the following:

(1) Allows combat arms soldiers to select the regiment of choice. Soldiers can change their affiliation at any time.

(2) Provides that CS, CSS, and special branch soldiers will automatically be affiliated with their corps or special branch.

(3) Specifies that all soldiers will belong to a regiment or corps.

(4) Permits no limit to the number of soldiers who can be affiliated with a regiment or corps.

As you can see a Regiment in the US Army is directly below the Corps, not the Division. Also, as stated previously, it really has very little meaning outside of officer career advancement.

It does however provide a safe place to put officers (high ranking ones) where they will have minimal duty and still hold position. I'd abolish it in a heartbeat if it was me balancing the budgetary books.

ajacobs
January 19, 2003, 08:17 PM
2 points

regiment is above battalion. This is certainly a confusing area and seldom used as Army units are based soley on history and even change names every so often just for the hell of it. I belonged breifly to the the 1st battalion of the 29 infantry regiment. There was also a second battalion of the 29 infantry both located on fort benning. There was a regimental headquaters located at harmony church on Ft Benning comanded by a full bird.


Regimental affiliation as posted by travler above is made up drill and ceremony bs. It is just a way of identifing yourself. Many people affilite with regements that don't even exist any more like possibly one their father served in or units that they have never been in. YOu can affiliate with any unit with an approved 4187 and it takes nothing to get it. It is just another pin worn on your uniform. I know people who have affiliated with certain units just becuase the pin (crest) was cool. Like have a skull and crossbones or cool motto. Suposidly you have a higher likelyhood of being assigned to that unit though if they are still active

From Websters.com
reg·i·ment ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rj-mnt)
n.
A military unit of ground troops consisting of at least two battalions, usually commanded by a colonel.
A large group of people.

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