[sumpnz]

With my plan to hike into the William O Douglas Wilderness to hunt elk this year, I was hoping for some pointers on what to bring, and just as importantly, what to leave behind.

I don't know yet if this will be a solo hunt of if I'll have other guys with me to help out, but for now assume I'll be solo. There will be plenty of other hunters around that if I get into trouble I should still be able to get help. Figure up to 5 miles from the truck, and then basically camp in the same place for up to 13 days (11 day season plus a day in and a day out). Plan is to find a good water source to camp close to. Hunting will be anywhere from the camp out perhaps a few miles). Terrain will be 3000-5500' elevation, western slope of the Cascades, close to the crest. Weather likely to be highs in the high 40's to low 50's, maybe freezing overnight but probably not. It is western WA, so rain is likely. Snow is certainly possible but not likely to accumulate much.

Items that I have already, or will buy/borrow before I head out:
Rifle - CZ550 9.3x62mm
Ammo - 15 rounds of handloads (286gr Partitions)
cleaning rod/patches/cleaner
electrical tape (to cover muzzle when raining)
Side Arm - Sig P245 with at least 13 rounds
Hunting License and Tag (elk and including a bear and cougar tag)
ID
Backpack (internal frame hiking pack - might be able to borrow BIL's external frame pack if necessary)
Topo map of the area
GPS (Garmin Rino 120)
Compass (need to buy, recommendations???)
Tent (lightweight backpacking type - will be borrowed from a friend)
Sleeping bag (compact down type rated to 25F IIRC)
pillow
Backpacking stove
small pot
steel mug (but not ceramic coated - about the size of a normal coffee mug)
Leatherman
2x Buck knife (one fixed blade with a gut hook, one folding)
compact binos
4x Alaskan cheese cloth game bags
para cord
string
orange surveyors tape
Camo coveralls
regular camo pants
several pairs of polypropylene thermal underwear
several pairs hiking socks
broken in boots
flannel shirts
wool/poly coat
blaze orange vest
blaze orange baseball cap
blaze orange stocking cap
camo Thinsulate gloves
TP
baby wipes
small shovel (need to buy/borrow)
water filter (to be borrowed from a friend)
lighter/matches
cotton balls with Vaseline
folding chair
headlamp (borrowed from BIL)
Ibuprofen and naproxen

Suggestions on improving the following appreciated:
Food (planning on some jerky/biltong, dried fruit/veggies, some "backpacking" meals that you just add hot water to, instant oatmeal, energy bars, candy bars, gorp)

I'm figuring on leaving some stuff at the truck (like some of the food, maybe some clothes) with the intention of going back to it once or twice during the hunting season to resupply.

[kdstrick]

Sounds like a lot of fun. One thing I've always found very convenient for wet weather is contractors trash bags. They can be used for tons of tasks and take up little space and weight. Zip locks bags are also great.

What will you hold your water with?

For food, good ol beef jerky is great! Also throw in some peanut butter, it is very calorie rich. The mountain house meals are great and lightweight too.

For clothing, look into some Ibex, Icebreaker, or Smartwool Merino wool. Backpackers wear it for days without it stinking. It is far superior than the synthetic stuff. Merino isn't cheap, but check online for deals. backcountry.com sometimes gets some deals.

[sumpnz]

What will you hold your water with?
I have a 5 gallon plastic water container that I could bring. Obviously that would be empty while hiking. For hydration while hiking I have a Camelbak bladder plus some narrow mouth lexan water bottles.

For clothing, look into some Ibex, Icebreaker, or Smartwool Merino wool. Backpackers wear it for days without it stinking. It is far superior than the synthetic stuff. Merino isn't cheap, but check online for deals. backcountry.com sometimes gets some deals.
That stuff would be great, but I'm not working right now, so spending $80 on a shirt ain't gonna happen. Once I get back to work I'll be able to make plenty of money to afford those, so I'll look into that for next year's hunting. It sounds like great gear.

[X-Rap]

I would lose the notion of a handgun and it's extra ammo.
For a cleaning kit I would take a basic Otis with brush in your caliber and a few patches.
An external frame that has a removable pack will be better for packing meat if its of good quality.
Get a decent liquid filled compass like a Silva ( your not building a railroad)
I like a 12'x12' light rainfly with many attachment points and a good bivi sack compared to a tent.
If you go with down keep dry, it is heavy and cold when wet.
If you are making permenent camp and maybe making overnight spikes get a folding solid fuel stove and use a fire most of the time.
A 1 qt. pot is good, don't forget a spork.
A multi tool is a must, I would bring a good skinner and a folding saw. A simple pocket sharpening steel will come in handy but if the knives are sharpened well they will hold an edge throughout the hunt and you can save on the weight and leave the steel home and use the saw on the multi tool.
For clothes I would have wool jacket and pants, fleece top and bottom in med. to heavy weight, poly pro top and bottom. You can layer them all up or wear 1 or 2 at a time and stay comfortable and dry.
3 pr good wool socks including the ones on your feet.
Fire starting sticks and bic lighters in good ziplock freezer bags, multiple pockets.
Don't forget a camera with a timer and some type of stand.
I'd also skip the shovel and folding chair.
It sounds as though you are packing in for this hunt, you must plan a spartan lifestyle unless you plan on paying a packer to haul in your camp or you take a couple weekends before and after to haul in your camp on your back.
Lighting at night and batteries for a couple weeks is no small item itself.
My list together with yours is not complete. some can do with less while others need more.
I always suggest a few trial runs with some note cards to refine your needs.

[sumpnz]

I always suggest a few trial runs with some note cards to refine your needs.I was thinking of just doing a day trip to scout and hike around the area I'd be hunting/camping but maybe I should do that as a one nighter instead to see how it goes.

[jim in Anchorage]

I could go 6 pages on this one, but it's my bed time. Rent a satellite phone. $100 a week in my area, 30 min free. May save your life.

[X-Rap]

I was thinking of just doing a day trip to scout and hike around the area I'd be hunting/camping but maybe I should do that as a one nighter instead to see how it goes.
__________________


If you have an area picked out pack some extra gear or food and a duffle bag.
Pack the stuff in some trash bags and put in the duffle and hang in a tree for use during your season.

[usmc1371]

couple sugestions: Stash your sig in your truck and when you get back with the first load of meat leave the rifle and pack the sig back and forth while packing out the rest. Your rifle will kill anything and will never be far from you. Skip the flannel and wear wool you will get rained on pretty much every day so cotton is not a good idea. I ain't made of money so I look for wool shirts at the thrift store and have scored some really nice ones for a few bucks. Rain gear! maybe a light pair of nike's to wear around camp at night so you can dry your boots and they are easy to put on when you have to take a leak at night. LED head light and if it uses the same bats as your gps even better. Small first aid kit. Oat meal and rice way nothing and are easy to make and full of good carbs. you could leave out the folding knife since your multi tool will have a small blade but its up to you. Take a book, boredom sucks and you can burn it if you have to. Rent a sat phone or E-PERB it could be the best money you ever spent. Hope this helps. sounds like fun.

closed cell foam pad of some sort, the ground will suck the heat right out of you and it will help keep your sleeping bag dry. maybe a light weight gerber camp ax instead of the saw but its up to you, I just think they are more handy for gathering fire wood than a saw. some tea bags or instant coffe may be nice and some of those little gator aid or crystal light packs that you can dump in your watter bottle for flavor and electrolites.

[Marlin 45 carbine]

lots of good advice from xrap and usmc sounds as if they have been there done that.
since you are planning a day hike in to scout make a cache and hide your heavier stuff (canned food, any whisky and such) and make your fire ring when you find a suitable camp site. don't forget a warm cap w/visor, leather gloves, toothbrush and other toilet items. sunglasses may be handy too. take a small trenching tool w/you on the scouting trip for firepit and latrine you can kick the soil back over it when leaving out. the small folding saw idea is a must IMO. carry a Swiss army knife (officers model) and a 4" fixed blade or folder.
a larger pot than what you have planned on will be handy for boiling water too at least 2 qt size get an el-cheapo aluminum from the human society or thrift shop and leave it at your camp. you can wash socks and underwear in it too.
for gun cleaning just take a piece of rag to tear a strip off and tie to string to pull through the bore and do a wipe down with. one of the small 1 oz bottles of rem-oil will be sufficient (wally has them).
I second the 12' X fly and bivvy sack over a tent if you have companions get a larger piece of poly to make shelter instead of a tent.

[gondorian]

+ many on usmc sleeping pad advice. If it is cold you NEED a sleeping pad. Silva compasses are good too. I'm just wondering how you are getting the elk meat out with you if you are walking to where you shoot it.

[shaggy430]

Sounds like you've got it covered. Two things I'd add are:
Windproof face mask
Super glue for cuts

[kdstrick]

A cool website that i buy some individual sized backpacking food and toiletry items from is www.minimus.biz. Check it out.

My basic kit always includes a poncho. It is great for keeping the water off of you, and can also be used as a ground sheet of shelter. You can get one very cheap.

For food, here is a good site that details a lot of good ideas. Do a google search and you will find tons of info on this subject... http://www.adventurealan.com/food_general.htm

[sumpnz]

I'm just wondering how you are getting the elk meat out with you if you are walking to where you shoot it.
Quartered and probably deboned. Lots of trips.

For the rest of you that have responded, thanks! Good info. I'll be reluctant to cache too much stuff at the camp site as there is the risk of another hunter or camper coming along and deciding it looks good enough for them to use. The scouting trip will be 4 weeks before the elk season opens, and there's a deer season in between.

[wheelgunslinger]

I could go 6 pages on this one, but it's my bed time. Rent a satellite phone. $100 a week in my area, 30 min free. May save your life.

Same here. It's a steep learning curve to take off in the mountains with OK gear.

Get a sat phone or a SPOT locator.

[IllHunter]

is lightweight and easy. Hormel makes some prepared indiv. meals that can be m/w or boiled over a pot of water. Packing out the plastic is my neg. Having pepper steak with rice in ten minutes is my +++++++.

If it uses batteries, think twice. GPS is nice but compass/map is more reliable.

I leave 5 gals drinking water in a solar shower near or on the truck. Heating frozen water or snow uses more fuel. The shower bag keeps it flowing and I fill up camel etc. when I return to truck.

I try to pack only items that can do 2 or more jobs. Waterproof matches are lmore reliable than lighters but 1 butane lighter is a must. +1 on the solid fuel stove. Make a small folding grill from a roasting pan insert. Two folds and it stands over the stove/fire as a steady base. Weighs 2.2 ozs. lets me grill backstraps!!

I use a closed cell foam pad to sit on and as pillow.
PS forget all that cleaning crud, get a Boresnake in the right size. It weighs nothing and does all! Made by Hoppes who know sumpin about the subject.

[bad_aim_billy]

Looks like you have a good idea of what you're up against, but I would also echo getting a SPOT locator. Not a huge monetary expense, and the "send help" and online tracking can come in handy if you get hurt or just need help packing out an animal.

[courtgreene]

I don't mean to sound like a female cleansing solution applicator, but if I were not employed and I told my wife that I was going to be going hunting for 13 days instead of finding work... I would soon find myself both unemployed and divorced. Couldn't you put the trip on hold until your job woes were behind you? I do not know your details, and I know every situation is different, but I am just suggesting that this time may need to be better spent.

[sumpnz]

You're operating under the assumption that a) my wife is objecting, b) that I don't have a LOT of hooks in the water, and c) that this trip would effect the job search in a meaningful way. All three of those assumptions are incorrect.

In the event that someone wanted to contact me about a job I'll be able to find out within a day or so, and/or my wife will be able to speak for me.

And, it's not like I can go hunting later in the year. It ain't like east coast deer seasons that run for 4 months. This is an 11 day season. I go or I don't. I've made the calculations, and I'm going. Should a job come along plans will be modified accordingly.

[courtgreene]

easy now... Like I said, "I don't know your details and every situation is different." I've been an unemployed hunter before so I know where you are coming from, and you are right, we do have really long seasons here. I was just offering some perspective that you may not have considered. I hope you have a great time with a successful hunt, and I also hope you find a job. It's tough right now. good luck.

[Bwana John]

Rifle - CZ550 9.3x62mm
Ammo - 15 rounds of handloads (286gr Partitions)
cleaning rod/patches/cleaner Boresnake
electrical tape (to cover muzzle when raining)
Sig P245 with at least 13 rounds
Hunting License and Side Arm - Tag (elk and including a bear and cougar tag)
ID Also wilderness and or campfire permit
Backpack (internal frame hiking pack- might be able to borrow BIL's external frame pack YES! if necessary)
Topo map of the area In a waterproof ziplock
GPS (Garmin Rino 120)
Compass (need to buy, recommendations???) Brunton pocket transit
Tent (lightweight backpacking type - will be borrowed from a friend)
Sleeping bag (compact down type rated to 25F IIRC)
pillow
Backpacking stove
small pot
steel mug (but not ceramic coated - about the size of a normal coffee mug)
Leatherman
2x Buck knife (one fixed blade with a gut hook, one folding)Only one is necessary
compact binos
4x Alaskan cheese cloth game bags 2 will be fine for a boned out elk
para cord
string
orange surveyors tape
Camo coveralls
regular camo pants
several pairs of polypropylene thermal underwear Only one is necessary
several pairs hiking socks
broken in boots
flannel shirts Only one is necessary, use wool or polypro not cotton
wool/poly coat
blaze orange vest
blaze orange baseball cap
blaze orange stocking cap
camo Thinsulate gloves
TP
baby wipes
small shovel (need to buy/borrow)
water filter (to be borrowed from a friend)
lighter/matches
cotton balls with Vaseline
folding chair
headlamp (borrowed from BIL)
Ibuprofen and naproxen

I used to backpack hunt in the Sierra Nevada every season for 15 years.
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3205/duckpass.png

I would dump everything in red.

You do not need a pillow! :rolleyes: (use your sleeping bag stuff sack with extra clothes inside)
You do not need a pistol, you have a rifle.
You do not need a tent Go light, high speed, low drag!
You do not need hot food. If you need it, build a fire.
Only take enough clothes to be warm enough first thing in the morning while wearing all of them

You will not be able to carry 13 days of food, and you dont want to shoot a elk too far away from the truck without horses to help, Id say spike out for 2-3 days at a time.

You DO NEED a sleeping pad, Id bring a ground cloth also.
You also need the best binos you can get, not some "compact" model
I would also bring a sharpening stone or steel.
I also bring a "sierra saw"
I would also bring a small daypack for hunting during the day with.
A good 7mm X 25m rope and rescue pulley is the only way you will be able to hang the elk meat if you cant pack it all out, para cord will NOT do it.

REMEMBER- You have to pack out a boned out elk AND everything else if successful. I used to leave my camp, get the all the meat(deer) out in one push. My wife would hike up with just a daypack, sleep at the camp, then carry it all back down a couple of days later.

[esq_stu]

I'm gonna watch this thread - I've been starting to plan a backpacking fishing trip with my son. Much of the advice would work for that.

There could be bear and big cats where I'm thinking of going. I was thinking about what firearm for personal defense (2- or 4-legged predators)? I suppose I could start another thread.

Two responses here say ditch the handgun. So if I'm fishing, ditch all firearms, since I won't be needing a rifle either? Considering that I'm always armed, I might feel naked. I'd like to hear the reasons. Concern about excess weight, or something else?

[joshk-k]

I think in a fishing trip like you're planning, most people would recommend you keep the pistol. When you've got a rifle, though, while hunting, another heavy-ish backup gun seems unnecessary. I think that this thread is good even for those of us who are not doing serious backpacking in to hunt, but are still camping/roughing it. There's no real reason to make things more logistically, financially, and practically complicated with stuff you don't need.

Best of luck in everyone's hunting this year.

[CoRoMo]

I just came back from a week-long backpack hunt into the backcountry for muzzleloader season.

Bwana John is right. Leave as much stuff behind as you can bare to do without. You'll thank us later.

I would make changes to his amended list of yours by adding some more of your items to the "leave behind" list, and taking one or two items, that he nixed, along for the trip. But his and my lists wouldn't be just right for you, you'll have to figure out what is excess baggage and what is necessary. A pillow is not at all necessary.

I have a list of things that I'll leave in my truck, at the trailhead, that I won't pack in with me. If they become necessary, I can always hike out to get whatever I need.

After your first trip out, you'll have a good idea of what you should not have brought and what you should have.

[X-Rap]

The reason for me to ditch the handgun is simple, If hunting I already have a rifle. When backpacking any extra weight is a burden. I try to take a lighter carbine with a but cuff full of extra ammo and a rag soaked in oil to wipe down if it gets wet. My preference for an Otis cleaning kit over a snake is only due to the cable being able to dislodge a stuck case. The suggestion of changing out a rifle for a pistol on your first packout of game is a good one if you feel your vehicle is fairly safe especially in bear country.
If I am fishing then I often carry a handgun. Sometimes it is a 357 revolver but more often it is a med. frame Glock in .40 or .357 sig the reason is not for hunting but protection.

[rcmodel]

and bic lighters As a long-time smoker I can tell you this about that.

BIC lighters do not work when your hands are wet.

The cheap no-name brand lighters with the covered striker wheel & thumb lever and adjustable flame will get you lit in any weather.

rc

[Cosmoline]

for up to 13 days

In light of that, you may not be overpacking as much as folks are saying. I would absolutely Dump the sidearm but I'd advise bringing 25 or 30 rounds of your chosen rifle ammo. It seems like more than you need but it is the core of the whole exercise.

I would however keep the stove the extra undies, but drop any cotton clothing and replace it with wicking fleece. It's not trendy or nice looking clothing, but you're aiming for the east side of the Cascades in fall so plan for some real frosty nights and mornings. Bring extra socks for sure and make sure to waterproof your boots before going. Bring a small but thick book as well. "Go East Young Man" by William O Douglas might be appropriate. He was quite a character.

For 13 days I would want a proper tent. You can pack extra light for the spike camps but base camp for a two week expedition is going to need to be well equipped. This isn't a hike it's an expedition. Also bring water filtration equipment like a pump. Food is going to be the bulk of what you carry in and you are simply going to have to accept a heavy load until base camp is set up. If you have to make two trips back, that's the way it is. If you're five miles from the truck that's not a big deal. For this kind of enterprise less is not more. It's NOT a backpacking trip and we shouldn't think of it that way.

I would bring a small but serious first aid kit as well. Not little bandaids and nonsense, but clotting rags, clamps and tourniquets.

[RoostRider]

I bring one of these magnesium fire starters with me any time I hit the woods with intent on staying over night...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31uDT0GMCWL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

It will start a fire even in the wettest of conditions..... I would take it instead of matches in a heartbeat (practice with it BEFORE you need it).... I would still take the lighter, because it is light and simple to start a fire with if needed...

I agree that a pillow is NOT something you want to pack in, the handgun is superfluous, leave the cleaning stuff in the car, and baby wipes are not in the least bit necessary...

Personally, I would not use a GPS either (even though I have one), it is much better to know and rely on your map/compass skills, because they don't get dead batteries/break/fail, and they weigh a lot less (thoughts are nearly weightless)... I use a compass like this one...
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/11UElp0qc7L._SL500_AA110_.jpg
because it is easy to use, durable, and has a sight for aligning with distant objects... it is a bit on the heavy side, for a compass.... but I am putting my life in its hands, so durability/usability counts for more...

I would definitely bring a tent, but the folding chair is a pure luxury that I wouldn't bother with.

But most important, as a new hunter or new to the area, I would not go alone (even if it means canceling the trip).... Elk are HUGE and 5 miles is a LONG hike with a quarter of Elk on your back, especially after hunting all day, gutting, skinning, quartering and deboning a large animal... then do it 5 times!!! (four with the animal and one with your gear)...

A seasoned friend is the best thing you could bring...

[CoRoMo]

I thought 15 rounds was too many, but I didn't mention it earlier because I know a lot of hunters take a box or two with them. But not me. Twenty-five or thirty rounds, definitely wouldn't make my list, but to each his own. I've never taken more than two shots in a single season so far, so I carry four or five rounds. That's it. If ever I use up all the ammo I bring along, I'll be the first to post back and recommend more.

p.s.
Years ago, I put together a nice little kit like the one described in the following article. Luckily, I've never had to open it up because it is meant for worse-case scenarios and life & death survival.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/survival/food/2006/08/make-survival-kit-out-altoids-tin-and-two-more-life-saving-diy-?photo=0#1000234036

I customized mine with a good deal more in a larger tin than this one.

[Cosmoline]

I may be thinking in Alaska terms on that point.

[friscolatchi]

Hi - way too much stuff for that itty bitty backpack. I have been using a "Metolious Haul Bag" called "Half Dome". I have used this big wall climbing in Yosemite in the 90's, to haul food and gear on some big walls in the valley. I now use it for carrying my gear to a base camp . Its indestructable, packs a lot of stuff and can be used to haul out critters. It carries well, cleans up easily and is light. Should cost under 200.

Also, if your 40 and older, or a smoker, and/or have a family history of Heart disease or have friends as such, please don't forget to take baby asprin, 81mg chewables for when the "Big One" comes. You take 3 or 4 for chest pain.

Hope this helps. Good adventure.

Frisco

[Bwana John]

have been using a "Metolious Haul Bag" called "Half Dome". I have used this big wall climbing in Yosemite in the 90's, to haul food and gear on some big walls in the valley. I now use it for carrying my gear to a base camp .
The problem with haulsacs is they dont breathe (unless you are talking about the holes caused from hauling on less than vert walls ;) ) The lack of a ridged frame can also make for really "dead weight".

Internal frame packs are great for skiing and climbing and crosscountrying, but dont really haul meat well, they also are not really ventilated that well

Old Kelty frame packs are just about perfect for actually carrying out meat. The meat is away from the heat of your body, and the old fabric was not waterproof.
Its gonna take time to get the meat out, you need it to be getting cool and airing out as much as possible till you can get the final buchering done.

If its greater than 40 degrees out and cant get fresh air circulating it aint "ageing" its rotting.

[IdahoLT1]

Im not sure if trout season is open when/where youre hunting but its open almost all year atleast somewhere in Idaho. Maybe bring a rod and reel in lieu of some of your food. I have done this on multiple occassions when backpacking and hunting. It saves alot of weight/trash and fish is always better than dried foods. If you decide to go this route, all you will really need is tinfoil.

[sumpnz]

I would bring a small but serious first aid kit as well. Not little bandaids and nonsense, but clotting rags, clamps and tourniquets.
BIL is working on becoming an EMT, plus he's prior .mil, and has been an avid mountain climber. Maybe I'll have him help me set up a good first aid kit.

Bwana John - Great input. I think that I agree with Cosmoline on the tent issue though. Otherwise I'll make a lot of those subtractions and additions you recommend.

I'm probably going to sell the two AR complete lowers I have on hand (a guy I used to work with really wants to buy them and is will to pay a stupid premium to get them off of a 4473). That will give me the cash to buy some of the merino-wool long johns that were recommended, along with some of the other gear. Sounds like one pair should do me for the whole trip, even if I have to stay for the whole season to get (or not) an elk.

I have a magnesium fire starter already. I'll make sure that makes the list.

It's looking likely that I'll have 1-3 other people now to join in on the hunt. We shall see if they stick with the plan, though 2 of those potential partners sounded like they'd only be able to be out there for 4 days. That could still leave up to a week solo if the other can't make it, or had to head home around the same time frame.

[X-Rap]

If you have more than yourself that changes things quite a bit. Avoid triplication and load up on food and other comforts like a tent then (split the tent, fly and poles amongst all 3). Make a pact that all parties will help each other pack the game and you will not loose any meat either.

[RoostRider]

Glad to hear you probably have company.... that changes things a lot...

Having been deep woods hunting for big game (Black Bear), I can tell you it is a serious rush to get your game, but the real challenge is getting it out quick enough... there is NO WAY I could have done it successfully without help... (successfully being without any spoilage)

The day I got my bear I didn't sleep until after 5 a.m. the next morning. It seems the chores never end when you have game potentially spoiling....

[Kernel]

Sewing kit. Bring less clothes, be prepared to repair what you have. Plus, you can use it to repair your tent, sleeping bag, boots, yourself, etc.
+1 Fish hooks & line. Weights next to nothing. 13 says is a long time. I little fresh fish would be good.
+1 Hormel "Camp Eats" shelf stable meat & potatoes type meals. Inexpensive, compact, tasty, ready-to-eat, but each one is only 280 calories. I’d use them like a starter kit, add lots of rice and/or noodles to build a bigger meal around them. No metal so all the waste will burn. Your going to need 3000 calories a day. Do the math and compile your food stash accordingly. Vastly underestimating the amount of calories needed is the number one mistake I see backpackers routinely making.
Candy.
+1 Good pair of binoculars.
A whistle.
+1 A little more ammo. In case you take a spill and your scope/sights get knocked out of wack. You’ll need to resight-in your rifle. Plus, you can always pull a bullet and use the gun powder to start a fire.

[interlock]

I would also love to do this .... but if i hiked 3 days in just about any direction i would be in the sea or the middle of the city. We don't have wilderness

[Bwana John]

Go alone.
No talking, humming, singing, ect.
Hike in ~5 miles by trail, then ~2 miles off trail.
As soon as you leave the trail act like someone is hunting you.
Hide your camp.
No fires.
Hang your food/extra tack while hunting.
Nights are cold.
Get up early and QUIETLY.
Hunt for real from 1/2 before seeing light until ~9am.
Go back to camp for the middle of the day. Eat, drink, sleep, rest, look at the map.
Scout from ~2pm until 5pm, hunt for real until dark.

Using this method I filled my tag(s) 80% of the time in zones with 5%-10% overall success rates.(CA: D7, B, X-9a, X-9b, X9c, X-12 AZ: 7, 9)

50% of the time I shot an animal at less than 150 yards, before 7am, and within 1/2 mile of where I slept the night before.

It has been my intention to rehabilitate from a full hip replacement and do it again this year.
Two years ago I hunted elk from a lawn chair, last year I elk hunted day hiking, I plan on carrying a pack and overnighting it this year for deer.

[X-Rap]

Kernal brought up a couple good points.
Optics-I use a pair of 10x 50 Swarovski binos and for the most part don't feel the need for the xtra weight of a spotting scope. As far as your gun sights think about having some back up iron sights, preferably a peep on the rear, a fall might just knock off your zero but it is just as likely to permanently damage your scope and without iron your sunk. Moisture can also be the enemy of optics and being able to remove the scope will save the hunt.

[sumpnz]

X-Rap - my 9.3x62mm rifle has backup irons. When I first got the rifle I sighted them in to be dead on at 100 yards. Got pretty respectable group that way too. I'll just need to make sure I pack the right allen wrench to get the scope off if needbe.

[X-Rap]

Good deal, another tool you might look at is the Leatherman Wave with the extra tool inserts. It covers most screw drivers,Torx, allen wrenches plus some other stuff I can't remember and its not in front of me.
I underestand your current situation but am just throwing some ideas out to you for the times you got some more spare change.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I envy you, but not if you fill your tag - humping all that meat over 5 miles in multiple trips will feel a lot like work. I can only suggest a 4-wheeler to take along, to pack the meat out. Otherwise, I think you've got it covered! Good luck. :)

[sumpnz]

Tad - that would be a great idea except for one, minor, technical detail. Wheeled conveyances of any description are not allowed within the William O Douglas Wilderness Area. Not even a bicycle or pull cart.

[Bwana John]

ad - that would be a great idea except for one, minor, technical detail. Wheeled conveyances of any description are not allowed within the William O Douglas Wilderness Area. Not even a bicycle or pull cart
Ah-So. But horses are:cool:. If you see any ranchers close with horses you might inquire if they are available to pack meat out.

[sumpnz]

Ah-So. But horses are. If you see any ranchers close with horses you might inquire if they are available to pack meat out.
I'd be horse-backing in if my FIL hadn't busted himself up pretty good in a horse riding accident back in July. He broke a bunch of ribs, punctured a lung, had a skull fracture, crushed vertebra, and broke his collar bone. He was unconcious for 3 days. He still has double vision from that.

[RoostRider]

Why would your father in law getting injured on a horse keep you from going in on a horse?

I understand he was messed up pretty bad, but if you know what you're doing on a horse, well, you have always known that there are certain risks involved.... not to say I'm not sorry to hear about your FIL getting the raw end of those odds....

Wow, a horse sure would help.....

[jim in Anchorage]

I would dump everything in red.

You do not need a pillow! (use your sleeping bag stuff sack with extra clothes inside)
You do not need a pistol, you have a rifle.
You do not need a tent Go light, high speed, low drag!
You do not need hot food. If you need it, build a fire.
Only take enough clothes to be warm enough first thing in the morning while wearing all of them

I hope your kidding.

[ccsniper]

I am interested to see what people say about this

[jim in Anchorage]

I am interested to see what people say about this
What?

[Nematocyst]

You do not need a tent Go light, high speed, low drag!The western Cascades are not the same as the Sierra. The latter is a desert compared to the former.

Bad advice to not carry a tent, or at least some kind of tarp shelter (http://www.granitegear.com/products/tarps/whitelighnin.html). The latter requires some experience to erect competently; at least some practice. For the colder, wetter seasons, this (http://cascadedesigns.com/MSR/Tents/Fast-And-Light-Tents/Hubba-HP/product) is my pick these days. Comes in at a mere 3 lb.

I also strongly agree with the advice that someone gave to ditch the cotton clothing. Go with polypro fleece. Well, at least one change of it. Dries quickly, will insulate better than cotton when wet by several times.

Leave the folding chair at the truck (and your gun cleaning kit at home); sit on a log or on your sleeping pad.

[Bwana John]

The western Cascades are not the same as the Sierra. The latter is a desert compared to the former.
That is true. The weather in the "Range of Light" can really be wonderful.
However I also hunted like this in Zone B, which is in the western Cascades (Trinity Alps, King Range).
I also worked for outfitters in the Wind River Range who use this technique, except they horsepack in ~15-25 miles, build Basecampo Deluxe and then spike out for 2-3 days from there.

I still say spike out for 2-3 days at a time, less than 10 miles from the truck, without a tent. If the weather gets that bad hike out.

Have everything back at the truck, tents, extra clothes, icechests, Colman stoves, ect.

or at least some kind of tarp shelter
YES, include a ground tarp which can be made into a shelter.

"Less is More", you aint going to the moon, (even if your average backpacker looks more like a astronaut than a resident of earth.)

Selecting a good protected sight to camp is more important than a 4 season tent. The tent can fail, then what? (Especially if he is borrowing it, it might be a WalMart special:uhoh:, not a VE-24.)

Same goes for the 1st aid kit, knowledge is what will save you, not equipment.

Now, if he had horses Id say go in for the entire 13 days, go as far in as possible, bring a wall tent, bring Dutch ovens, bring watermellons, ect...

[sumpnz]

but if you know what you're doing on a horse
I don't. Hence why I'm not taking my FIL's horse. I'd be unlikely to make it all the way to camp, nevermind through the whole hunt with that horse.

[Bwana John]

Hunting with horses can be one of the hardest ways to hunt. Packing up, unpacking, making sure they are fed and watered and safe at night, finding them in the morning, setting up Basecampo Deluxe, breaking down Basecampo Deluxe, ect....

Hike in light, shoot your elk, try to get both backstraps and a boned out 1/4 and all your gear out in one trip, hang the other 3 quarters well, and find a outfitter or rancher to pack the rest out on a horse.

Spot packing works well also (pay to have your kit packed in and packed out), but having to look out for horses the whole hunt is a PITA, IMO(unless your primary gig is horses)

[RoostRider]

I don't. Hence why I'm not taking my FIL's horse. I'd be unlikely to make it all the way to camp, nevermind through the whole hunt with that horse.

Given that, you are making a good decision there.... lol

[X-Rap]

^^^X100
I packed in 10+ mi. by myself for a 7 day hunt once and only made it 3.5 days. The feed was terrible (dry + 10,500 alt), my saddle horse was not the best choice I could have made, and the two compounded led me to dirrect more time wrangling than hunting.
The thing that made me take stock on that hunt by myself was the long pack just to get to the timberline area my season was opened to through wilderness. I had guys comming out of the woodwork afterwords saying they would have been glad to have come and watched the horses but that is the hindsite I guess.

[jim in Anchorage]

I still say spike out for 2-3 days at a time, less than 10 miles from the truck, without a tent. If the weather gets that bad hike out.

I would have to say your neck of the woods has no biting bugs, and rarely rains.
Mine does, and a 3 LB tent can be lifesaving.
Also there is nothing like getting up in the AM, staying in the bag, and fireing up my super light butane latern. The 25 degree tent warms up to 60 in minutes

[Nematocyst]

Selecting a good protected sight to camp is more important than a 4 season tent. The tent can fail, then what? (Especially if he is borrowing it, it might be a WalMart special, not a VE-24.)I'll say that differently: selecting a site is just as important as a tent.

Now, about this tent. Anyone who goes into a wild area (outside a state park with a camp ground) with a Walmart tent should be prepared to accept the consequences.

I've been backpacking and mountaineering for nearly 40 years. I've never had a tent "fail". Not once. Why? I don't use Walmart tents. Nothing less than a North Face. More commonly, Moss (Olympic) (http://www.trailspace.com/gear/moss-tents/olympic/), Garuda (see image; 11000' in southern Rockies) or MSR, all quality mountaineer tents. Plus, I choose my tent site carefully, with a good wind break, etc.

Sumpnz is asking our advice about what gear to take on this venture. Clearly, he's not an experienced backpacker/mountaineer. If he was, I'd agree that a multi-day trip 10 (or more) miles in without a tent is doable. But he's not. In this case, I think to be that far into a wild area without a tent is foolish and dangerous. In case of bad weather, or injury, a tent can be life saving.

Let alone just the comfort factor. Tents cut wind and can raise the temperature for sleeping by as much as 5-10 degrees.

It's his call, but my advice: take a tent. If you can afford a good 3 or 4 season ultralite, go for it. But any tent is better in this case than no tent.

[Balog]

I'm one of the other people going with sumpnz, and I've been trying to assemble my gear for the shorter stay (Fri night to Tues afternoon). Found an old Kelty Trekker cheap on Craig's List, sharing a tent with a buddy, and have some basic 1st aid stuff ready to go. I have some cold weather gear, but I'm concerned about pants. The only thing I have that's not cotton are ski pants (swish swish swish). Thoughts on quiet yet water resistant trouser choices? I also need a sleeping bag, although I've been hoping to buy used as my budget is fixed and it's a bigger ticket item.

For food I'm thinking ramen with some trail mix, beef jerky, and peanut butter to round things out. I'll try those dried soup packets, and some of the Hormel and/or Asian dried meals as well.

I'll try to post an exact gear list as I get everything assembled. Thoughts on my progress so far?

[sumpnz]

Balog - I was looking at these (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=cat470076-cat601690&id=0015043941584a&navCount=0&podId=0015043&parentId=&masterpathid=&navAction=jump&catalogCode=9IS&rid=&parentType=&indexId=cat470082&hasJS=true) for water proof pants. THere's others if you need more insulation that that.

For a sleeping bag, I've some that you're welcome to pick over if you'd like to borrow one.

[Balog]

Interesting, thanks sumpnz. If I can't find something cheap on CL I'll probably take you up on that offer.

[Grizfire]

I suggest you take your final pack for a nice walk before you commit. I think you should lighten up the load and ditch the handgun, the cleaning kit, the extra knife. Looks like you got everything else covered.

I like your idea of resupplying at your truck.

Can you pack into a lake so that you will have both a water supply as well as back country fish to eat? Look into it.

Good luck, a 13 day backpacking trip is not for the timid, but your adding elk hunting on top. I'm guessing you may lose a few pounds by the time this is over. Let us know how it goes when you get back.

[Hunter125]

I have never done a backpacking hunting trip, though I would love to, bu I have been backpacking several times and have a few suggestions.
First Silvas are nice, but I've always been a fan of Bruntons as far as compasses go. Look into it, see what you like.
Second, don't scrimp on the first aid kit. If you don't need it, great, if you do, it could save your life. You might look into the quick clotting agents (http://www.opticsplanet.net/quikclot-first-aid-kits-112.html) in case something really goes wrong.
The SPOT (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0051330518244a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntk=Products&QueryText=spot&sort=all&Go.y=0&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23&Go.x=0&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1) receiver is a great idea, in my experience satellite phones are bulky, heavy, and expensive.
I would not scrimp on the tent and make sure you have rain gear with you, and don't forget about your pack, you'll need to make sure you can keep it dry as well.
One other thing to note, I would definitely double up on your socks. Wear two pairs with the inside pair being some kind of moisture wicking material and the outside wool or a wool mix. Take care of your feet, you'll regret it if you don't.
Another good idea, make a survival kit and pack it into a wide mouth nalgene bottle. If you get in a pinch, you'll have what you need and have a water bottle too.
Don't forget water purification the two best I have seen are the MIOX (http://www.survivalschool.com/products/Water_Filters/MIOX_Water_Purifier.htm) and the Steri Pen (http://www.steripen.com/). I have personally used the SteriPen and it was great, although you will have to filter the water somehow as well, but this could be as simple as a coffee filter or handkerchief.
Sounds like a great trip, hope I can do a trip like that soon.

[sumpnz]

Just got back from the scouting trip a couple hours ago. Carried nearly everything I'd want to take on the actual hunt, except for the gun and of course I didn't have nearly as much food with me. Subtracting a few things that would otherwise be duplicated, and adding some cold weather clothing I left in the truck this time and I think the 45# from today plus gun and food should be pretty close. Figure probably 60# with gun and 6 days worth of food. I was sweating a good bit getting up to the areas that looked good to camp, but I did make it in a reasonable period of time.

Found a couple good potential camping spots with good water nearby. The elk all seem to still be around or above 5000' elevation. Saw some sign lower, but much less. They might move a bit lower by the Nov 7 opener but unless there's A LOT of snow fall between now and then they probably won't move very much. It was cold overnight, but with the new bed roll and wool long johns I was plenty warm. We got back to the truck before setting up camp, which was around 3400', and it got down to 28F or so.

I did wind up having to use my internal frame pack for the scouting trip. The ruck sack that a friend loaned me had no padding at all around the frame and also lacked a waist strap. I got it all packed and hoisted it on my back. With about 15 seconds my back was starting to hurt. So I promptly repacked everything into my internal frame pack. That said, my BIL has an external frame pack that I'll be able to try out during season (opens Oct 17). If his is comfortable enough I'll use it. Otherwise I'll deal with whatever the limitations are of the internal frame pack on this elk hunt and look for a good quality pack later.

[Nematocyst]

Very wise to do a trial run.

Remember that since you've got a few weeks before opener, you could always hike in some of your 6 day food supply and stash it. That's particularly true for any canned goods you might be carrying in, but even non-canned staples can be sufficiently smell-proofed and hung high.

Six days of (good) food ain't light.

[Nematocyst]

I'm concerned about pants. My choice for high altitude pants year round is a pair of quality side-zippered (all the way up) rain pants with a pair of poly long johns underneath. Zipped up, warm as can be for 3 seasons (add another layer of fleece for winter). If it's warm, one can unzip the side zips of the rain pants and roll up the long johns.

For food I'm thinking ramen with some trail mix, beef jerky, and peanut butter to round things out.
I'll try those dried soup packets, and some of the Hormel and/or Asian dried meals as well.Ack. :barf:

The Well Fed Backpacker (http://www.amazon.com/Well-Fed-Backpacker-June-Fleming/dp/0394738047).

I'd rather eat a steady diet of "cheesy bacospuds" from that book than ramen & Hormel.

[sumpnz]

We did find a camp site where it looked like someone had done just that. Some cans of tuna and Spam that we still current (pull dates out in 2010), and obviously hadn't been out there very long (little dirt on them, lables still in good shape).

However, technically that's against Wilderness Area rules. You're not supposed to leave anything unattended for more than 48 hours. And given that rule I'd be really worried about someone else taking that food for themselves.

[Nematocyst]

I'd be really worried about someone else taking that food for themselves. Creative Food Hanging 101: use a black or dark green bag with similarly-colored 550 paracord, hung high in a densely forested area well off the trail.

No one, not even rangers, will find that.

Now, mind you, I'm not advocating breaking laws,
just trying to make your quads suffer a little less on those switchbacks. ;)

[Balog]

My choice for high altitude pants year round is a pair of quality side-zippered (all the way up) rain pants with a pair of poly long johns underneath. Zipped up, warm as can be for 3 seasons (add another layer of fleece for winter). If it's warm, one can unzip the side zips of the rain pants and roll up the long johns.


Don't you find those a bit noisy? The rain pants I'm familiar with are very loud. I do have a pair of ski pants I can wear in a pinch, but they're solid black and noisy as all get out.

[oneounceload]

Maybe I missed this, but I would have a SECOND pair of really well-broken in boots so one could dry one day while you hunt the next. Moleskin as well.

Since you'll be in rain country wool or goretex are your friends

[sumpnz]

Well, we got up there Thursday of last week. It was raining, but not too bad. Then it changed to snow. By Friday morning there was nearly a foot of snow on the ground. By Saturday it was snowing heavilly, and by Sunday morning there was 3' of accumulation. And all of one set of tracks in the whole area. We got the heck out of there. From the weather reports it's still snowing up there.

I'm going to try a couple day trips to a spot closer to home (about an hour's drive). A friend called today and gave me the locations where he'd seen some fresh tracks. We'll see if I can do any good there the rest of the week.

[RoostRider]

LOL... yeah, that can happen.... sounds like an 'experience' anyways, so be glad you went.... you're not the first guy who's grand hunting plans didn't work out quite as planned... :)

So, was the tent worth it? ...... :)

[Vern Humphrey]

Assemble your gear and weigh it. If it's over 50 lbs, including the rifle, you're carrying too much.

On the other hand, if you're going in 5 miles and have the time, you might consider packing in half your gear at a time.

For a compass, a Sliva or Suunto protractor style is best -- I have a small one that I can pin on my coat and read it as I travel.

For a shelter, I like Poncho Villa -- a poncho I made that is 9X7. It completely covers me down to the ankles when worn as a poncho and can be pitched like a tarp tent. Along with it, I carry a piece of plastic sheeting for a ground sheet and a foam pad. My pad folds like an accordion, and I can fold it to go in the internal frame pocket of my pack, making it do double duty as frame and pad. My sleeping bag is a North Face Chrysalis -- 2 lbs and good to about 20 degrees. It's down, so I take very good care of it.

For cooking and so on, I use an "anti-gravity" stove made from Sam's diet soda cans. The stove, windscreen, grill and reflector altogether weigh just about an ounce. The fuel is alcohol. My cook kit consists of a tin can, a spoon, and the pliers on my swiss pocket knife (to take the hot can off the stove or fire.) Add a wire bail to the can if you plan to cook on a wood fire.

For food, freeze dried meals are ideal -- one meal a day (half at lunch and half in the evening) is plenty. Add some instant oatmeal for breakfast.

[X-Rap]

Transitional seasons are the toughest to try to plan for since you can't pin down the weather as well. Packing during archery or an earlier gun season can still have snow but not as likely. Winter camping has more stable cold temps and less melting.
The worst part of snow like you got is that it starts to melt as soon as it hits the ground and a foot acumulation is usually very wet and heavy and it is almost impossible to keep dry and you can't carry enough spares to stay comfortable. In a couple days it will be melted off and muddy as all get out making packing out all the harder.

[RockinU]

never mind