NEVER use 147 gr AMMO in a 9mm pistol?


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cleetus03
September 28, 2009, 01:47 PM
I've been meaning to discuss this topic for a while, so here it goes.....

One of the initial literature guides I used regarding 9mm defense ammunition came from the website http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm.

Under the 9mm section the website states the following in regard to 147 gr JHP;

Now it is time to impart some crucial information: NEVER use 147 grain ammo in a 9mm pistol! There was a stupid fad for 147 grain hollowpoints a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds. I don't care what you've heard: never use any 9mm hollowpoint heavier than 125 grains. 147 grain hollowpoints often jam in many popular 9mm guns like the Browning Hi-Power, SIG, Beretta 92, S&W and Glock. Ignore the gun magazine hype and stick to what works. If you want to gamble, go to Reno. Don't gamble with your life. 147 grain ammo sucks.

Bad 9mm Loads to avoid (and certainly NEVER carry). Numbers given:

Federal Gold Medal 9mm 147 grain JHP (9MS)
Federal Hydra-Shok 9mm 147 grain JHP (P9HS2)
Winchester 147 grain 9mm Silvertip Subsonic JHP (X9MMST147)
Winchester 147 grain 9mm Super-X Subsonic (XSUB9MM)
Remington 147 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM8)
Remington 147 grain 9mm Golden Saber JHP (GS9MMC)
Remington 140 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM7)
Remington 88 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM5) This bullet is far too light.
CCI Lawman 147 grain 9mm PHP "Plated Hollow Point" (3619)


With that said could any of you please explain where/how this opinion came about regarding 147gr 9mm?

How has the 147gr 9mm evolved since whenever this article was dated?(Over the past 3-4 yrs, I've fired hundreds of 147gr WWB JHP flawlessly out of my Taurus PT92, so I'm confused on why the article says it's prone to jamming.)



Appreciate all the help and info you guys can give me!

p.s. Tried using the search function for this ? but failed to get a precise answer.

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Erich
September 28, 2009, 01:50 PM
You know what opinions are like, right? ;) Sometimes they don't pass the smell test, either.

mljdeckard
September 28, 2009, 01:59 PM
I've used Chuck Hawks for a lot of info, but this one is phrased WAY too absolutely. As always, test your carry gun with your carry ammo for reliability. 200 rounds failure-free, MINIMUM.

I WANT to believe that tha sub-sonic 9mm idea works, it's kind of pushing it into my favored .45 perception, but I have heard a lot of mixed feelings on how effective it is in the real world.

jjohnson
September 28, 2009, 02:00 PM
Yeah, I have one.

Let's start with the theory that 147 grain loads were developed in an effort to try to get as much "oomph" out of the 9mm when loaded down to subsonic levels for the guys who have suppressors on their handguns (I'm jealous).

The 9mm was a hot number when it was kinda new in the German Luger in WW1, and (by the way) they loaded it kinda hot in 115 grain ball. Most 9mm handguns, I believe, were built anticipating that the standard ball cartridge was the standard load to be used. Feed ramps, magazine lips, all that stuff, designed for that load.

This doesn't mean 147 grains won't work, but does your GI M1911A1 always feed 185 grain wadcutters? Mine doesn't.

There for awhile, 147 grains was popular since it's subsonic (mostly), but I suspect that the hollow point bullets weren't always up to expanding predictably at low velocities. Handgun ammo has come a long way in recent years with all the big bucks "self defense" stuff for $1 a round.

I'd expect today's premium 9mm ammo to do well for expansion - but if you're going to carry something that's not between 115 and 125 grains, I'd want to shoot a bunch of it to make sure it cycles.

If you're really curious, drop a note to somebody like Speer or Hornady for their opinion.

ATW525
September 28, 2009, 02:16 PM
I've shot 147 grain JHPs from several different manufacturers through several different autoloaders over the years and never had an issue.

There is some controversy over how well it actually works as self-defense load. However, I chock that up mainly to the fact that the 147 Grain 9mm was once touted as some sort of super round, and it has since been discovered that it sucks just like every other pistol round. I doubt it's really much better or worse than other common bullet weight in the 9mm.

Norinco982lover
September 28, 2009, 02:18 PM
Remington 147 grain 9mm Golden Saber JHP (GS9MMC)

I think I use this. It feeds perfectly in my XD9SC.

~Norinco

Gryffydd
September 28, 2009, 02:22 PM
It's Chuck Hawks, what do you expect? :rolleyes:
I know he says he didn't write it, but he sure put it up on his website.
I take anything on his site with about as much salt as is in the dead sea.

fastbolt
September 28, 2009, 02:30 PM
Yep, everyone's got an opinion. ;)

Some folks have some experience to support their opinions. :rolleyes:

Some folks seem willing to adopt the opinions of others just upon their say so. :scrutiny:

Some folks seem willing to base their opinions on info, experiences and other opinions which may be somewhat dated.

Some folks are willing to reconsider their opinions based upon newer experiences.

Some folks like to try and reference LE/Gov info and testing. (The problem with this is that many LE/Gov sources don't want their in-house results to be viewed as some sort of 'endorsement' or recommendation for ammunition, so they don't like to make their testing easily available. Last time I checked the FBI required a formal agency letterhead request, signed by someone of at least supervisory capacity, who would agree not to disseminate the info outside their agency.)

Some folks are willing to accept manufacturer data. (The problem sometimes encountered with this is ammunition manufacturers may be inclined to spend the significant money involved in strict gel testing protocols only on their 'premium' LE-type loads, not bothering much with their 'old style' JHP loads.)

Bullet design does have a significant influence on its potential deformation & expansion, and there's been some ongoing refinement and improvement in bullet design when it comes to defensive hollow points.

The development of the original W-W OSM load and its military application is pretty much easy to find online. The reason for its first acceptance into the LE field is also pretty easily found.

The subsequent developments in the area of bullet design, and how it affected and influenced the 147gr hollow point loads developed for LE use, can vary a bit among the different companies.

There are some good modern bullet designs available today in this heavier 9mm bullet weight, designs which have demonstrated the potential for some consistent expansion in some of the rigorous testing protocols favored among many LE users (and therefore among manufacturers who hope to receive contracts from LE users) ... and some satisfied LE users.

There's some of the older design bullets still available in this heavier weight, too. If these older style bullet designs had been able to meet the same requirements for performance under the same testing conditions, the manufacturers probably wouldn't have had to invest all that money in designing new ones, I'd think ...

Just my thoughts ... but I'm neither an expert nor an author.

C-grunt
September 28, 2009, 02:59 PM
I would say a new production 147 grn 9mm would work well. Back in the day the hollow points needed a certain velocity to reliably open up. The slow 147 grn did not meet this threshold many times.

Modern ammunition is loaded with different bullets in different loadings to reliably expand at their velocities.

I have no idea about the reliability issue and have never heard that before.

KBintheSLC
September 28, 2009, 03:03 PM
With that said could any of you please explain where/how this opinion came about regarding 147gr 9mm?

I think the guy pulled it out of a deep dark corner of his posterior.

I have never had any functioning issues with 147g ammo out of my Glocks and Sig. Actually, most of the standard pressure 147g stuff out there even expands nicely through denim covered gel.

I normally use 124g +P for urban carry, but I also have some 147g laying around that I would not hesitate to use.

MS .45
September 28, 2009, 03:20 PM
I always keep a magazine loaded with Fiochi 147gr. FMJ with me in the car. It is the hottest loaded 147 gr.FMJ I could find ( 1050 fps ). I have tested it against various barriers and it out-performs other loading I have tried. While not my first ( or even 3rd ) choice for SD, you never no when the ability to shoot through something will be needed.

After checking, Double-Tap now makes a 147gr. FMJ at 1135 fps. I need to check those out.

444
September 28, 2009, 03:21 PM
I have shot thousands and thousands of 147 grain 9mm bullets out of Glocks as well as Browning Hi-Powers and my Colt 9mm AR15. I have used Hornady XTPs, Remington Golden Sabres, plated cast bullets, Remington Bulk 147s................. I mean thouands and thousands of them.
I am an avid suppressor owner and load 9mm subsonics. Since I load them 1000 at a time, I usually am shooting 147s whether or not I am using a suppressor simply because I have a lot of them sitting there loaded.

Based on my experience, this guy is FOS.
His experiences may not mimic mine. All I can relate are my own experiences.

KBintheSLC
September 28, 2009, 03:25 PM
After checking, Double-Tap now makes a 147gr. FMJ at 1135 fps. I need to check those out.

Those are straight nasty... good nasty. I use them for my wifes gun when we go hiking in bear/cougar/moose territory. It is the most powerful load she can shoot well with.

ChristopherG
September 28, 2009, 03:29 PM
I think the nub of a lot of good comments can be boiled down into a couple tenets:

1. A 147 gr. 9mm bullet of modern design (not a cheap standard bullet like the WWB) can be expected to perform well at the lower velocities of this heavy-for-caliber projectile. A cheaper, old-school 147 (like the WWB) probably can't.

2. Test whatever specific ammo you plan to use in the particular gun you plan to use it in. I had a Glock 17--the gold standard of reliability in sem-auto handguns, in a lot of people's opinions---that would eat 115s, 124s, shucks, that gun would eat lug nuts, but would not reliably feed 147 Gold Dots. So I shot 'em up and moved on.

jimmyraythomason
September 28, 2009, 04:15 PM
My Ruger P89DC ate Remington 147 grain 9mm Golden Saber JHP (GS9MMC) with ease and never a failure of any kind.
Hundreds of rounds fired.

GunTech
September 28, 2009, 04:30 PM
I have thousands of rounds of 147gn hydroshock, and shoot them in my pistols and SMG with zero problems. The only issue I have had is with a Kahr K9. The 147gn are slightly too long for that pistol's magazine and can drag, cause a failure to feed. BHP, CZ-75, Colt Commander, Glock 19? No problem.

Prosser
September 28, 2009, 04:34 PM
My two cents. I LIKE heavy for caliber hollow points. Problem with 9mm, for me, is adequate penetration with ANY HP.

I looked at the ballistics on the 147's, and, most are slow, and still don't penetrate enough
You might look here to get some idea of how well the ammo makers, and 9mm match for defense ammunition, in your barrel length: Keep in mind that out of that ammo table, with lighter bullets, you get 125 grain Corbon that runs, in a full sized gun, real close to .357 magnum 125 grain loads: 1314 fps with a 125, in a 5" barrel is not a joke.
In a short barreled carry gun, 3" or so, the loads are still going nearly 1200 fps, which, by the way, matches the .357 Magnum load in my 1.8" S&W 360 PD, which goes 1204 fps.

I actual gun tests, I found for my Kahr PM9 147 grain loads going all the way down to 800 fps, and, others just under 1000 fps.

I suspect penetration might be seriously compromised with some of these loads...




http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9mmluger.html

Federal seems to have cured this situation with HST ammo.


http://federalhst.com

nitetrane98
September 28, 2009, 04:37 PM
Hmmm. I bought a box of 147 gr Remington Golden Sabres for my 1971 Browning HP just so I could say I had some rounds for social work if absolutely necessary. Interestingly, the guy at the gunshop told me they sell more of those than anything else for guns that have a hard time feeding other types of HPs. I like the GS in about everything else I use so I bought a box. At a buck a pop I painfully fired up a 10 rd mag without a hitch. Loaded the 15 rounder and called it good to go. It's not my "go to" gun and I ain't buying a couple hundred rounds to feel confident with the 147 grainer.

Hawks is OK, I don't know why he would put that up on his site unless it was simply to show diversity of opinion. I think the other guy is talking out his nether regions.

GRIZ22
September 28, 2009, 05:34 PM
I find 147 gr ammo the most accurate in S&W and Taurus 9mms. I have had no issues with reliability.

PO2Hammer
September 28, 2009, 05:38 PM
/ammo_by_anonymous.htm.

Guest article. Guess he didn't want us to know his name.

147's may not be the ultimate man-stopper, but they've never choked any of my 9's, which include Sigs, Berettas, Glocks and H&Ks.

I usually get excellent accuracy with them.

cpermd
September 28, 2009, 05:53 PM
Chuck Hawks is completely wrong.
He often is.

CP

wally
September 28, 2009, 06:14 PM
Who is Chuck Hawks? and why should I care what he says?

If I were to carry a 9mm it'd be loaded with 147 gr bullets for the following reason: The sectional density of the 147 gr 9mm is a tad higher (better) than the 180gr .40S&W and .45ACP 230 gr (which are the same). Penetration is proportional to sectional density times velocity. The velocity of the 147gr 9mm is a bit higher than the 230gr .45 and a bit lower than the 180gr .40 S&W so penetration should be very good.

The three most important things with pistols and shooting for self-defense is Placement, Placement, and Penetration. Make mine the heaviest bullet for the caliber.

No magic bullets for me. I buy what's on sale so I can afford to practice with what I carry, but then I don't carry a 9mm.

--wally.

m2steven
September 28, 2009, 06:55 PM
At the time the piece was written, there may have indeed been problems with 147gr 9mm ammo. He's using the 'gun is always loaded' mode of thinking. "If this ammo sucks in some guns some of the time, it sucks".

This person is probably a writer or magazine owner/editor. If he doesn't do this as anonymous - he's going to lose his livelyhood.

Zak Smith
September 28, 2009, 07:16 PM
Look at this data
http://demigodllc.com/~zak/firearms/fbi-pistol.php?sort=grade1

The 147gr load is actually the best performing 9mm load of those listed.

cleetus03
September 28, 2009, 09:22 PM
Appreciate all the thoughts and info on the matter......I come to the conclusion "To Each His Own":)

bluetopper
September 28, 2009, 10:14 PM
The majority, it seems, only shoot their guns to maim and kill? Seems no one speaks of the pure fun and enjoyment of shooting?

I like shooting the X ring at 25yds. with my 9mm 1911 and I do it every weekend and I find my 147gr cast lead reloads perform the best for me in that regard.

1SOW
September 28, 2009, 10:37 PM
parasite +1 (Texans like to play with guns while smiling)

If you check the competition forums, you'll find 9mm 147gr is VERY popular.

It's low percieved recoil, tight groups and ability to knock down heavy steel targets make it a successful round for competition.

I don't use 147gr, but I believe most competitors who do use fmj rn.

CZ 75 users have to slightly reshape the end of the slide lock to reliably clear the 147gr bullet while cycling.

rscalzo
September 28, 2009, 10:49 PM
My department has used Winchesters 147 grain HP 9mm Ranger SXT load for over ten years in their S&W 2nd. & 3rd. Gen semi-autos. Reliability has been virtually absolute. I never felt the load was the best for that caliber and as stated, probably better suited to suppressed weapons.

However the standards are set by the department. Fortunately I was able to get a 40 S&W option added and most switched over using Winchester's SXT/Ranger T 165 grain loads.

SharpsDressedMan
September 28, 2009, 11:14 PM
I have several 9mm guns that have been fitted for use with sound suppressors, and I use 147gr ammo all the time. The Winchester FMJ-FP bullet is loaded for practice, and the Remington Golden Sabre HP is loaded for maximum effect with subsonic 9mm. A walther P99, Browning Hi Power, and Colt 1911 w/9mm barrel all work fine with both loads. I have NOT had to modify the feed ramps, or do any special reliability alterations to get good results in my guns. http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/matquig/DSC05246.jpg

mete
September 29, 2009, 09:14 AM
The 147 gr 9mm was based on stupidity !! An agency was looking for an accurate round for a SMG for use with a supressor .That's all , nothing about expansion or anything else.. They came up with the 147. Some dummies then concluded that this was the answer to all 9mm problems !
Of course it was a poor performer on the street as there had been no effort to make a proper expanding bullet.
After many failures the ammo companies redesigned the bullets and the second generation ammo performed well. When you read about ammo tests remember that ammo is constantly redesigned and date of tests can be very significant..Todays 147 performs though like any ammo make sure it functions perfectly in YOUR gun.

SharpsDressedMan
September 29, 2009, 08:56 PM
I was loading .38/.357 158 gr. bullets in the 9mm by sizing them down in a .356 sizer die before the ammo companies ever created a 147grain load. The purpose was maximum power in a subsonic load. The reason the 147 load got interest was the FBI's Miami Shootout failure, where light bullets failed to penetrate a bad guys arm and dig deep enough into his chest to stop him...the flesh wound on the arm basically drained the bullet's inertia enough that the chest wound was superficial. They deduced that a heavier bullet would have penetrated deeper. Bullet development enhanced the structure, expansion, and penetration of almost all new bullets, be they 9mm, .45, etc. Some agencies are still using the 147grain hollowpoint, and are very happy with it, with many sucessful police shootings on record for performance results.

Island Beretta
November 6, 2009, 12:23 PM
have used the sxts 147g and nary a problem. in a 92fs very little recoil.

Island Beretta
November 6, 2009, 12:28 PM
..btw not to cause an uproar here but in field tests, i have had 147s penetrating targets that the 115s did not.. the 147s however did not expand as consistently as the 115s did with a g19 and g17 as it did with the 92fs.. i attribute this to the longer 92fs barrel.

Philo_Beddoe
November 6, 2009, 12:46 PM
147 gr is fine, its actually outperforms many of the +p and +p+ 115gr and 123gr gee whiz loads

those light fast loads tend to over expand and not penetrate enough (FBI min is 12 inches, ideal is 12-15, 18 is over penetration, bullet should expand at least to .50 too)

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#9mm

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/9mm.htm

Philo_Beddoe
November 6, 2009, 12:47 PM
generally the heavier the bullet the more penetration in a given caliber

momentum

in hollow points the faster the bullet the quicker it will expand, which can be good and bad, it means a larger wound channel, but it may expand so fast as to not reach the vitals.

106rr
November 10, 2009, 04:50 AM
Many local PDs using the 9mm have switched to the Federal 147gr HST2. They report excellent results on the street. This ammo is supposed to be LE only but it sometimes shows up on the regular market.

Lonestar49
November 10, 2009, 11:23 AM
...

I too, switched to Winchester 147gr SXT JHP's with my Sig P229R CT 9mm for HD/SD.

Couldn't be happier with accuracy at SD/HD ranges with less recoil and fast follow-up shots using them for about a year now.


Ls

MichaelK
November 10, 2009, 12:19 PM
I developed this load a decade ago. My cast Lyman 358477, sized and lubed to .356" weighs 147 grains in #2 alloy. Loaded with 6.0 grains of Blue Dot, it became my standard 9mm load. I've been shooting it for 10 years before I found out it didn't work.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/kawalekm/9mm_150grainSWC.jpg

It looks bizare, but yes, it does feed flawlessly, and shoots fine.

Onmilo
November 10, 2009, 12:27 PM
I am not a fan of 147 grain loads in a 9mm.

As stated earlier, where this particular grain weight load really shines is in suppressed pistols to keep sound levels to the absolute minimum.

The loads are not any better or effective than +P 158 grain loads fired from a short barrel revolver and that means they aren't bad, they just aren't great.

LeonCarr
November 10, 2009, 12:45 PM
After lots of trial and error, the most accurate load in my buddy's P89DC 9mm used 147 grain Hornady XTPs loaded with Blue Dot. The groups were half the size of the groups shot with 115 grain Winchester White Box. It was also not the first P89 I have seen that liked the heavier bullets better.

Also, I haven't heard any of the 147 haters volunteering to get shot with one :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

sigma 40ve
November 11, 2009, 05:04 AM
I use Winchester 147 Rangers in my carry nines. I have always had good performance out of them.

Not to stray but, I use 147's reloaded in my 9mm's for pistol games. Lot of other people do too.

WRGADog
November 11, 2009, 09:55 AM
My PD ammo is the 147 grain Winchester Ranger Bonded JHP. I shoot this round in each of my 9mm's and have experienced no problems whatsoever. This includes 9mm's mfg by Beretta, Walther, S&W, Springfield, and CZ.

KBintheSLC
November 11, 2009, 12:45 PM
A 147 gr. 9mm bullet of modern design (not a cheap standard bullet like the WWB) can be expected to perform well at the lower velocities of this heavy-for-caliber projectile. A cheaper, old-school 147 (like the WWB) probably can't.

I have to politely disagree with you on your opinion about WWB 147g JHP's. All of my testing with these bullets indicates that they perform very well for a discount loading... comparable to premium loads. The ammo is 100% reliable in my Glock's, it expands and penetrates well through denim covered wet phone books, and it even maintains its jacket integrity after passing through an auto windshield.

I use these as a cost-effective way to fill my spare mag.

Shawn Dodson
November 11, 2009, 01:44 PM
Chuckhawks says:
Now it is time to impart some crucial information: NEVER use 147 grain ammo in a 9mm pistol! There was a stupid fad for 147 grain hollowpoints a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds. I don't care what you've heard: never use any 9mm hollowpoint heavier than 125 grains. 147 grain hollowpoints often jam in many popular 9mm guns like the Browning Hi-Power, SIG, Beretta 92, S&W and Glock. Ignore the gun magazine hype and stick to what works. If you want to gamble, go to Reno. Don't gamble with your life. 147 grain ammo sucks.
The absolute lack of any credible information to support the claims being made should be a red flag to everybody.

EOC_Jason
November 11, 2009, 02:56 PM
1. Register domain for a few bucks.
2. Post whatever you want on said domain.
3. Watch and see how many people blindly think said content on said domain is gospel.

silversport
November 11, 2009, 03:25 PM
as I remember it the 147GR 9MM round was made to be subsonic to be fired through suppressors...

I remember choosing the 147GR round (Winchester) when the 147GR was brand new and was going to be the next big thing...it was under 1000fps and some had problems with it...no one at my department but some reported it so...

Later I remember a department my brother works for using the 147GR (Winchester copper colored jacket) used in an actual shooting where the officer made two good body hits where the offender gave up but was not killed...more hated the round (opinions formed from rumor)...they gave up on it as did many other departments that were using it...

We gave up on it and went to the Illinois State Police load of a 115GR Winchester Silvertip in +P+ and later replaced that with the Winchester Black Talon 127GR +P+...

Development of the 147GR round continued and is still made...I haven't heard horror stories as I did in it's infancy...
I suspect some problems were from pistols with springs tuned to higher slide velocities that the initial 147GR bullets didn't equal and it being the wrong bullet for the task (because we didn't have suppressors)...

IIRC we carried 147GR Winchester bullets in Silvertip, Black Talon, and Ranger configs before giving it up for the ISP load and settling on the 127+P+ Ranger T...those with 9MM carry Speer Gold Dot in 124GR today but I don't make that decision any more...

Bill

Kurt S.
November 11, 2009, 06:23 PM
I've used 147 gr FMJ on steel plates from an FEG (Hi-Power knockoff) and a Ruger P89, no problem. Also used it as a plinking round from HiPoint 995 carbine but for some reason it is not as accurate as 115 grain.

There's a picture floating around the web with a comparison of 9mm 147-124 gr, .357 SIG, a couple of .40s, and .45 ACP hollowpoints in gelatin. Penetration and cavity sizes all look really similar. To a ballistics nonexpert like me it's a convincer that I wouldn't want to get shot with any of them. Looks like the 147 grain would be a good defensive round.

I think the picture might be on Shawn Dodson's website, but I haven't checked.

Boba Fett
November 11, 2009, 08:48 PM
The 147gr being a fad sounds like a complete BS opinion.

I prefer the 147gr hollow points if my pistol will feed them well.

Perfect example is my full size Baby Eagle. It loves the stuff and seems to be more accurate with a heavier bullet. For defense, I load it up with the Winchester RA9B (http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/flash/win_flash.html) (147gr bonded) (on the Winchester link, be sure to scroll over to the right...more types of material tested).

But I don't always use it either.
I still need to do some more tests with it, but thus far my Walther PPS doesn't seem to like the Winchester RA9B. Doesn't always feed it well. I've only fed a few brands/types of HP through it so far, but it only had a problem with the RA9B. Easy enough to fix, I just carry the brands/types that worked.

Cayoot
November 11, 2009, 10:55 PM
The majority, it seems, only shoot their guns to maim and kill? Seems no one speaks of the pure fun and enjoyment of shooting?

I like shooting the X ring at 25yds. with my 9mm 1911 and I do it every weekend and I find my 147gr cast lead reloads perform the best for me in that regard.
Would you please state what profile that bullet is? I'm planning on getting a 9 mm in probably a Glock 34 (I only own revolvers at this time). I was wanting to get a good feeding 147 grain bullet with as wide a meplat as possible (I don't like putting my faith in hollow points...penetration and placement is all I care about).

And yes, I know about lead bullets and Glocks, but I know a couple of guys who only shoot home cast bullets (I'm a caster also) in their glocks and have never had an issue.

Thank

Cayoot
November 11, 2009, 11:00 PM
I developed this load a decade ago. My cast Lyman 358477, sized and lubed to .356" weighs 147 grains in #2 alloy. Loaded with 6.0 grains of Blue Dot, it became my standard 9mm load. I've been shooting it for 10 years before I found out it didn't work.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/kawalekm/9mm_150grainSWC.jpg

It looks bizare, but yes, it does feed flawlessly, and shoots fine.
I like that bullet! What gun are you shooting it out of?

Ranb
November 12, 2009, 02:54 AM
I load 147 grain cast FN bullets for my suppressed Browning HP. They work just fine. This is the first time I have heard of reliability issues with them.

Ranb

bdb benzino
November 12, 2009, 04:10 AM
I just shot several mags of 147gr HP ammo that worked awsome today, I was breaking in my new Kahr CW 9. I think the base of this thread is unfounded, and subjective to a bunch of variables. :confused::barf:

golden
November 13, 2009, 05:06 PM
CLEETUS,

I prefer 115 to 124 grain ammo in my 9m.m. I use +P or +P+ unless it is unavailable, a problem when I lived outside the U.S.

The 147 grain ammo is in the same weight/velocity range as a +P .38 Special. The 115 grain +P+ loads are just as fast as the 110 grain .357 magnum loads. I will take a .357 over a .38 +P any day.

Also, when my agency used 9m.m. pistols, we never had any complaints with the +P+ ammo. It had excellent stopping power proven in real gunfights.
Our revolver round was the .357 magnum and the .45ACP was permitted in personally purchased pistols, so we had a good point of reference.

When we went to a single gun and round, we went with the .40 S&W with 155 grain jhp. The heavy 180 grain .40 S&W was not even considered after it was tested.

Jim

Defense Minister
November 13, 2009, 05:53 PM
That's based on yesteryear's data. 9MM ammo loaded with 147 gr. hollowpoints has come a long way since then. In fact, 147 gr. loadings would be my personal choice if I carried a 9MM, but, 15 years ago, it would have been different.

floydster
November 13, 2009, 08:47 PM
Chuck Hawks, Chuck Norris, what a bunch of Bull!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

BushyGuy
November 13, 2009, 08:51 PM
that is 20 year old Bull**** information that you found, i use 147 gr in my 9mm's and i prefer the 147gr they give deeper penetration and better barrier penetration.

my favorite is 147gr Gold Dots and 147gr Federal Premium Hydra-shoks i have tested them and they are one of the best in barrier penetration, i done various testing thru barriers and they still retained enough energy to make it to 12 inches of penetration.

you can use 147 grainers in 9mm , remember the heavier the bullet the deeper it goes.

ChucK Hawks is old school and he hasnt doen enough testing for the 147 gr like the FBI done.

legion3
November 13, 2009, 09:21 PM
15 year old article using 20 year old data.

147 has come along way since early problems.

He also suggests Corbon Makarov for 9x18 (which is a good choice) yet that ammo has not been made in at least 12 years.

Louie Lumpkin
December 18, 2009, 04:40 PM
9mm 147gr bullet use for anything ???? 9mm is a .38 and the only function of a bullet is killing. The only factors that matter, is bullet weight and velocity. A 147gr JHP 9mm with winchester 231, 4.5gr at 1,000fps out of my baretta has never malfunctioned in over 2,000 rounds. Trust me "IT WILL KILL YOU DEAD"

Speedo66
December 18, 2009, 05:28 PM
My agency used Glock 19s and 26s, manditory round 147g subsonic hollow points.

I've seen thousands of rounds over the years shot through those guns with those rounds and almost never a problem.

BS

ohwell
December 18, 2009, 08:07 PM
It may have something to do with the amount of actual muzzle energy developed by the loads. Typically a standard loaded 115 or 124 grain bullet both have more muzzle energy than a standard load 147 grain bullet.

Dragk913
December 18, 2009, 09:31 PM
I was actually shown the light of the 147gr, just earlier today.
I plan on trying it out, and adopting it as my SD round.
http://le.atk.com/general/irl/woundballistics.aspx


That's a directory of all the Federal/ATK tests, they are definitely the most professional and comprehensive ones you are likely to find.

sheepdog
December 18, 2009, 09:38 PM
...I don't relate to the dogmatic THIS WAY OR NO WAY style of Hawks' stating his opinions....I found this much more even, reasoned, and analytical...
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm_hi_power_ammo_selection.htm

Jonah71
December 19, 2009, 01:35 PM
I've done the same with the Taurus PT Pro Compact 9mm with no problems at all.

Bill_G
December 19, 2009, 02:04 PM
brassfetcher.com shows the 147 Rem GS penetrating 12" and expands to .60

can't ask more than that from a 9mm. thats what i carry in my FNP-9.

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