[GUN BOY]

I'm looking for a good bolt action .223 for shooting primarily from a vehicle. I live in Tasmania, Australia so not all makes will be available to me. I will be head shooting kangaroos at a maximum of 150 meters/yards. The rifle needs to be under AUS $1400 but still of good quality. I was wondering if any of you could help me out

[W.E.G.]

What is the exchange rate between Aussie currency and US?

[hokeyplyr48]

google is your friend

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS332US332&q=australian+dollar+us+dollar&btnG=Search

[litman252]

Even for $1000 US you can get a nice rifle and scope easy.....

Savage or Tika (pushing $$) would be my choices.....

Short Barrel and good glass, Nikon Monarch in 2-7

http://www.savagearms.com/11f.htm

Tony

[Runningman]

A Tikka T3 or a CZ 527 would be at the top of my list to check out.

[benzy2]

A Tikka T3 or a CZ 527 would be at the top of my list to check out.

My first thoughts exactly. If you want irons the CZ has great irons. Otherwise put a 2-7 or 3-9x decent scope on either one and enjoy. Either rifle leaves a decent budget for a great scope which in my opinion is just as important as the rifle.

[Kernel]

A .223 will probably be okay. A .243 Winchester would be better, if you might be shooting Kangaroos or Wallabies over 50 lbs.

Except for really small animals, like rabbits, I don’t think head-shooting is a good strategy. It’s not what I teach my kids. It's an ethics thing.

[Beagle-zebub]

Yeah, I'm with Kernel on this. Granted, I've no experience with 'roos, but I know how big they are, and I know it is bad practice to go for headshots on deer--it's not unheard-of to see a jawless doe or buck who was victim to a hunter who didn't take the usual thorax shot.

[GunTech]

The CZ-527 kevlar will shoot heavier bullets with its 1:9 twist. The rest of the 223 CZ-527's are 1:12 IIRC. Even with the heavier varmint barrel, the rifle still is only around 7.5 pounds and my experience with them is that they are very, very accurate.

Winchester Australia is the distributor for CZ. although it look like they only offer the Kevlar varmint in 204 Ruger, and you have to buy the laminate to get 223.

http://www.olin.com.au/products/Firearms/product.aspx?type=centrefirerifles&sku=CZ223VRT

[rangerruck]

when you say shooting from a vehicle, is this moving? You can get bipods made to use your window ledge as an anchor point, and can thus shoot from a bipod.
I don't recommend shooting from inside the vehicle; the sound will really impact your ears.
Really here what you are going to need most, is good glass with a big objective, and if you can get one, with a old style german post and crosshair setup, that is fast, accurate, and well able to be used on moving targets.
I would see if nikon makes one, or if not get burris or some other company that will make your reticle for you, to do a german style post/crosshair reticle.
maybe Leupold will do it as well.
As for the rifles, i would think a savage , tikka, smith/wesson i bolt, browning, would all do nicely, get something with either a 1/9 or 1/7 twist.
If you can get an American style AR, with a redot site or eotech style sight, this would be best of all. A lightweight, semi auto repeater, that is accurate, and can take a beating.

[rangerruck]

the cz 527 is a fantastic rifle; but not for these purposes. I would suggest the cz varmint/kevlar first, because of it's faster twist rate. the 527 is very light, you would need to be quite still, as in a nonmoving vehicle, to shoot it best. and it has a 1/12 twist, which limits your bullets to 62 grains max. I have no idea how hard headed the varmints are that you will be shooting. So I would like a heavier bullet if at all possible. also the cz varmint is heavier, and therefore easier to shoot off a truck front, or moving, just may not be easier to shoot 'offhand', because of it's weight.

[rangerruck]

You know what? since you are in aussie land, you proly have lots of access to either Howa or Weatherby, both would be just fine choices, and if you can also access a Sako, that would be the bee's knees as well. just make sure you get a 1/9 twist or smaller, just to make sure.
but again, your most important choice here will be glass, since head shots on Roos/wallabeyes I would guess would be at most a 5 inch diameter or less, for a instant kill shot. you need good clear glass, with a accurate, yet fast to acquire , reticle.

[GUN BOY]

What is the exchange rate between Aussie currency and US?
Currently around AUS $1 is US $0.86

[GUN BOY]

when you say shooting from a vehicle, is this moving? You can get bipods made to use your window ledge as an anchor point, and can thus shoot from a bipod.
I don't recommend shooting from inside the vehicle; the sound will really impact your ears.
Really here what you are going to need most, is good glass with a big objective, and if you can get one, with a old style german post and crosshair setup, that is fast, accurate, and well able to be used on moving targets.
I would see if nikon makes one, or if not get burris or some other company that will make your reticle for you, to do a german style post/crosshair reticle.
maybe Leupold will do it as well.
As for the rifles, i would think a savage , tikka, smith/wesson i bolt, browning, would all do nicely, get something with either a 1/9 or 1/7 twist.
If you can get an American style AR, with a redot site or eotech style sight, this would be best of all. A lightweight, semi auto repeater, that is accurate, and can take a beating.
The vehicle will stop for a shot to be taken. The vehicle is a '77 LandCruiser ute with no side windows or windscreen so noise is not a problem. As to the mention of a semi-auto; here in Australia because of the Port Arthur Massacre (Some bloke killed 35 people in my home state of Tassie) semi-autos, pump actions and hand guns (Except for strict range use) are all illegal. His name is Martin Bryant and has been locked up in solitary for the rest of his life, he has tried to commit suicide around three times but has failed. I think he should be placed in the stocks so we can shoot him in the ass with air rifles.

[Aaron12]

gun boy said "The vehicle will stop for a shot to be taken. The vehicle is a '77 LandCruiser ute with no side windows or windscreen so noise is not a problem. As to the mention of a semi-auto here in Australia because of the Port Arthur Massacre (Some bloke killed 35 people in my home state of Tassie) semi-autos, pump actions and hand guns (Except for strict range use) are all illegal." there not illegal you just need a cat c/d licence. and for me im in the same boat. live in aus all guns and ammo are hard to get.

my friend just bought a tikka T3 fluted heavy barrel and a good quality tasco scope for close to 1k, for me thats a good deal, not used either brand new- just my idea

[GUN BOY]

Here in Tassie we have a very limited choice as to gun makes and the prices seem way out of proportion. So obviously not everything you suggest will be available to me. The gun shop I got to is fairly small compared to what I imagine you have so only base and common variations are available. Some makes that I know are widely available are; Browning, Ruger, Howa and Weatherby.
Because my dad will buy the rifle using my money he will heavily influence the final decision and he seems really interested in Rugers. I have noticed that there have been no mentions of their rifles here. Can anyone tell me about them? Possibly give me something to sway my dad if necessary?

[Aaron12]

gun-boy if your interested in buying second hand and shipping it from a-b and not minding i suggest you visit this site as well http://usedguns.com.au/used_guns_whats_new.html.

mods- if this is not allowed i'm sorry and just delete my post, thanks.

[GUN BOY]

A .223 will probably be okay. A .243 Winchester would be better, if you might be shooting Kangaroos or Wallabies over 50 lbs.

Except for really small animals, like rabbits, I don’t think head-shooting is a good strategy. It’s not what I teach my kids. It's an ethics thing.
Previously I have been using a 22. Magnum with hollow points at a maximum range of 80 meters/yards so head shots have never really been a problem for me and unlike your deer etc. kangaroos have small heads so basically any head hit will cause damage to the brain.

In the past I have used a stable rest; a car window with a piece of foam pipe insulator with a slit cut in it placed over the window. This has been really good because for different heights and distances I can adjust my rest by winding the window up or down. I am thinking of adding a similar thing to my present shooting vehicle

[GUN BOY]

gun-boy if your interested in buying second hand and shipping it from a-b and not minding i suggest you visit this site as well http://usedguns.com.au/used_guns_whats_new.html.

mods- if this is not allowed i'm sorry and just delete my post, thanks.
My dad is a bit scared of the internet so buying online will not be an option unfortunately.

[GUN BOY]

Yeah, I'm with Kernel on this. Granted, I've no experience with 'roos, but I know how big they are, and I know it is bad practice to go for headshots on deer--it's not unheard-of to see a jawless doe or buck who was victim to a hunter who didn't take the usual thorax shot.
In Tasmania we don't have the famous Red Kangaroo, just smaller species with heads very close in size to a rabbit's

[GUN BOY]

You know what? since you are in aussie land, you proly have lots of access to either Howa or Weatherby, both would be just fine choices, and if you can also access a Sako, that would be the bee's knees as well. just make sure you get a 1/9 twist or smaller, just to make sure.
but again, your most important choice here will be glass, since head shots on Roos/wallabeyes I would guess would be at most a 5 inch diameter or less, for a instant kill shot. you need good clear glass, with a accurate, yet fast to acquire , reticle.
I was looking at the Nikko-Stirling Diamond 30mm 3-9x40 Illuminated and became quite interested in it. But I don't have any idea of the price or if it will even be available here. As you can probably see by now from reading my past posts the main problem here is availability.

I better go now. I have heaps of homework to do; due in tonight.

[kanook]

I will be your first Ruger gun vote. They have a compact version that you can get blued or stainless. They also make a varmit version that will let you reach out further.

[627PCFan]

+another for the Tikka. Good deals can be had if you shop around for them-

[litman252]

http://www.legacysports.com/products/howa/howa_hogue_scopepkg.html

Scope and Howa package, nice rig. Could spend lots more and get less....

Tony

[Water-Man]

Tikka T3 Lite is the way to go. Has a faster twist rate than the CZ and less expensive.

[rangerruck]

Avoid ruger; and I have rugers, so why? becuase they are overpriced and under accurate in my opinion. And not just mine , but many others. their accuracy on centerfires can be hit or miss, and becuase of their wood, stout actions, and nice fit and finish, they should be that expensive? A cz, which does it for fit and finish way better than ruger, is cheaper, and far more accurate, especially with the single set trigger; and cz is as close as to a stanard mini mauser or full sized mauser action, but just new made, as you are ever going to get.
Look, I have a 10.22 and a 77/17m2, and two pistols, and they are all good, but the 10.22 needed help to get right, and the ruger centerfires i have shot in the past were dissappointing. Like everyone here will say if they have shot a ruger and a cz; get the cz.
But since you have access to Browning , howa, and weatherby, there are some great choices right there! Since it sounds like it might be tough on the rifle out there; i would look for something heavy bbl, stainless or nickel washed, with a nice synthetic stock.

[Arkansas Paul]

Good quality Tasco scope????????? Didn't know they made one.

[Art Eatman]

I bought a Ruger 77 Mk II light sporter in .223, some ten years back. I changed out the trigger for a Timney. But, even with the factory trigger, it was a half-MOA shooter for three-shot groups. I've used it on prairie dogs to 300 yards, and done quite well.

It is equally accurate with a round-nosed 70-grain bullet as with the 55-grain Sierras I generally load. It digests the Remington factory stuff just as happily.

[win71]

If it were me I'd look at the CZ LUX in .223. Get three or four extra magazines. At the ranges and animals you're talking, any half way decent scope will work. I have just such a set up with an old K3 Weaver. It's deadly and with iron sights you can still keep shooting if the scope goes gunny sack. The CZ rings allow for easy removal.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w140/win71/CZ001-1.jpg

[X-Rap]

I saw here in a post that a guy from Australia had a Rem. 7615 fixed up pretty nice. I was not aware of them being on the bad list in your country.
If they are approved that would be my choice topped with a 1.5-4x scope.

[kanook]

rangerruck, you are the first I have heard of that disliked the Ruger sying they are all junk. I guess that I've been lucky, all the ones that I own are very accurate and none of the one we have sold at the shop have ever come back.

It doesn't matter how much a rifle cost if you put junk glass on it the rifle shoot like junk. If you don't get the right ammo for the barrel, again same thing.

[CZguy]

rangerruck, you are the first I have heard of that disliked the Ruger sying they are all junk. I guess that I've been lucky, all the ones that I own are very accurate and none of the one we have sold at the shop have ever come back.

You might want to go back and read rangerrucks post like I just did. He never said Ruger's were junk. He just said that there are more accurate rifles out there that cost less.

He's correct in this by the way. :neener:

[R.W.Dale]

You might want to go back and read rangerrucks post like I just did. He never said Ruger's were junk. He just said that there are more accurate rifles out there that cost less.

He's correct in this by the way. :neener:

I have to disagree I have a soft spot for both, My ruger 77's and No1's have all been every bit as accurate if not more so than my CZ bolt action centerfires. My biggest complaint about the 550 is that they're grossly overweight porkers for a rifle with a sporter weight barrel.

I guess if you only bought ruger rimfires, 77/22hornets and mini's the yeah you'd think they were ALL inaccurate POS'es

[benzy2]

Ruger has been known to be very hit or miss with barrel quality. The amount of truth to this I can't say and I have to bet that for the most part it was less of a rifle issue and more of a shooter/scope/ammo issue but still the same I have heard a lot of mixed reviews about Ruger rifles, centerfire and rimfire alike. I am a little nervous going with a Ruger personally. The only one I shot was holding a little over MOA but was in load development when I was given trigger time.

[PT1911]

I will second the 527 varmint in Kevlar... I LOVE MINE....

[SHvar]

I like Ruger rifles.
My M77 target rifle is more accurate than any rifle Ive shot that cost 2-4 times as much. Ive now shot multiple stainless M77 standard all weather models and I am pleased to say that all have been accurate.
Keep in mind these rifles were not full floating longer heavy barrels, nor were their stocks as big, nor were their triggers as light, just standard stainless steel all weather models (unlike my target rifle).
As far as price goes, my target rifle cost less before the sale price (when i got it) than comparably equipped or close models from remington, savage, winchester, etc.

[GUN BOY]

I don't think I've seen that many CZ rifles in my local gun shop. It seems to be mainly Brownings, a few Rugers, some Weatherbys, Howas, Sakos (I think they might be a bit dear), maybe some Tikkas, amongst some other dearer brands.
But really it'll come down to what's left over once I've bought the scope; probably going to be the dearest one left if Murphy turns out to be right

[GUN BOY]

Close it's actually 8pm here now. You've all persuaded me to not get a Ruger and a CZ may not be available here. I am now wondering about Browning, Weatherby, Howa and Tikka. That is about it for my gun shop.

[JimmAr]

Close it's actually 8pm here now. You've all persuaded me to not get a Ruger and a CZ may not be available here. I am now wondering about Browning, Weatherby, Howa and Tikka. That is about it for my gun shop.
Krochus was correct however about the ruger number no1.. most of them ive seen are decently accurate but not worth the 900ish price for a single shot rifle unless you got in an exotic caliber(460s&w ect)..

Savage is another rifle that would be amazing in 223.. 10fp model per say..

[GUN BOY]

Single Shot is really not an option for my purposes. My dad said Savage rifles are poor quality, but I don't have any experience with them

[Kernel]

Gun Boy, I've got a Ruger M77 MkII in .223. It's a stainless sporter with a gray/green laminate stock and a simple Leupold VariX II 3-9x40 scope. I consider it my "walking around" varmint rifle. Easily, MOA with just about any load I put in it. Had it for about 10 years.

You wanted some help selling the Ruger idea to your dad.

First off, it comes from the factory with scope rings. The bases are integral to the receiver. It’s an excellent design, all steel, very well made, and the rings can be easily removed and put back on the rifle with little or no change in POI. That right there will save you at least $60 US in not having to buy rings and bases.

Second, I like the three-position safety. It’s not just a simple "trigger safety" like some designs. It locks the bolt and blocks firing pin. You can load & unload the rifle with the safety on. The safety is foolproof.

Third. I like the Mauser-style bolt design. Control feed, big fat non-rotating claw extractor, and strong fixed blade ejector. Very heavy duty and military like.

Fourth. The trigger is simple and can be easily stoned and polished. If you still don’t like it, it can be replaced with any one of many drop-in aftermarket triggers.

Fifth. It’s a Ruger. It’s built like a tank and will last three lifetimes. Nothing plastic, nothing flimsy, nothing cheesy. It’s robust and made for hard use. No need to “baby” this rifle. It can take it.

[Aaron12]

gunboy Tikka T3 heavy fluted barrel, excellent accuracy. Tikka should be available in the gun shop there seems to be alot of Tikka's floating around in aus.

[rangerruck]

I would have no probs getting any of those four left to choose from. the brownings of course, will probably be the most beautiful, most classic looking, and probably have the best fit and finish. However, the Weatherby Vanguard line, can be had with a moa guarantee. And I don't know about Tikka; perhaps someone who has bought one; do they come with a sample shot target inside the box? If they do, I would ask the gunshop to pull down all the tikkas and Weatherby's. Open up every box, and look at all the target shots in the boxes. Whichever shoots the group you like the best, buy that one. Also you need to put it on your shoulder, and see which one fits best.
Weatherby allways puts a target shot group inside the box with their rifles.

[GUN BOY]

Rangerruck, are you saying in a reserved kind of way that Brownings are inaccurate, or less accurate?
Also, if I get one of those inaccurate Rugers you mentioned, can't I just return it to the shop and get another one?

[GUN BOY]

Here is the website of my local gun shop:
http://www.bgfirearms.com.au/index.html
I only discovered its existence today so I figure it hasn't been completed yet, the blank fields support this. I think this also gives a good example of the range available here.

From looking at the new centrefire rifles the Ruger M77 Hawkeye All-Weather is the only one that falls within my price range. The AUS$1100 price tag seems a bit extreme compared to the American price of US$803 on Ruger's website.

[GunTech]

Very high considering the price listed is MSRP, and you can find Rugers for quite a bit less in the typical American gun shop.

[kanook]

I gave a broken used washer and dryer for my .223

[All4eyes]

I am a big fan of the Tikkas, I own one in .22-250, and am considering one in .257 or .243. From what I can tell you get Sako quality in a synthetic stock. BTW I can achieve a .25" 5 shot groups at 100 yds. with handloads, slighty bigger with factory Remington loads.

[GUN BOY]

Kanook, that would have to be best deal ever; something for the wife swapped for a gun for you. Awesome!

All4eyes, that 5 shot group is almost the bullet calibre, your Tikka must be a good rifle. It's a shame they're too dear for me here otherwise I would definitely get one.

[Runningman]

Avoid ruger; and I have rugers, so why? becuase they are overpriced and under accurate in my opinion. And not just mine , but many others.I own a Ruger 77 Mark II stainless synthetic 22" sporter barrel in 223 that shoots decent for a lighter barrel rifle. Wearing a 4-12 X Leupold scope It will usually do around .750 MOA with most factory loads for 3 shots and around .500 - .650 with better handloads it likes. Have worked on the trigger to get it to a 34 OZ trigger pull to make for clean shoots on moving targets. This is my normal walking varmint / coyote calling rifle. Works extremely well for its intended purpose.

My Ruger 77 Mark II Target 26" HB laminated stock in 220 Swift will group under 1/2 MOA all the time doing 5 shot groups using my good handloads.

So please don't count me in that "many others" group.

[Runningman]

From looking at the new centrefire rifles the Ruger M77 Hawkeye All-Weather is the only one that falls within my price range. The AUS$1100 price tag seems a bit extreme compared to the American price of US$803 on Ruger's website. I feel bad for you guys down under there. $1100 AUS$ seems kind of crazy for a M77 Hawkeye.

[Art Eatman]

A$1,100 x 0.8653 = US$952. Retail price = Wholesale cost + shipping + import duty + profit.