One Shot Stop Percentages?


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Boberama
September 30, 2009, 04:49 PM
What is the formula or equation for the Fuller Index of One Shot Stops?
I was on NAA Mini's website and they listed " fuller index numbers."
I can't seem to find the complete formula anywhere, all I found was
0.0057 * enegy / frontal area + 61.5, but that means the minimum percentage is 61.5, and the NAA website listed numbers below 40. It also listed that penetration makes a difference to the formula.

PS: I know the formula is probably BS, but I want to know it anyways, so don't post things like " there is no such thing as stopping power" or " placement is more important."

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CWL
September 30, 2009, 06:51 PM
By your math, I guess that bullets fired from NAA guns have a "Zero Stop" probability.

(If you can't tell that this voodoo science is a load of dung, then you are doomed to actually believe this stuff.)

btw, shot placement is more important than bullet choice.

THE DARK KNIGHT
September 30, 2009, 07:15 PM
The formula isn't probably BS, it IS BS. All those formulas and number crunchings are just to sell stuff or make X bullet look more powerful than Y. If you're interested in terminal ballistics, first off understand that nothing is definitive, and next you are best off studying things like terminal results in ballistics gel or various wall/etc. tests. A body is an intricate thing and just a bunch of numbers does not do anything for you.

PandaBearBG
September 30, 2009, 08:23 PM
BS, regardless of what you want to hear or believe there is no formula for a "one shot stop" Regardless of caliber, bullet weight, distance, it's usually random because everybody is different and every situation is different with a hundred variables inbetween. The only real "one shot stop" is shot placement and that 100% spot is a bullet right in the ole brain stem.

Nicodemus38
September 30, 2009, 09:05 PM
the only time that a 100% stopping power is guarunteed is when you run that deer or mugger over with a train. any freight train moving at any velocity has the energy and ability to give a 100% stop on the spot to anything living. ive heard that a whale would be 90-100% with a freight train moving at least 10mph.

so whats got more oomph, that naa mini in 22lr or a freight train?

hogshead
September 30, 2009, 09:11 PM
Just for arguments sake I have a friend who got hit by a train and lived.Broke his femur and maybe some brain damage hard to tell with him. He was DRUNK and walking the tracks and got hit from behind , Said he didnt hear it. On the other hand my Grandfather got killed by a train at a crossing while in a truck. Go figure.

orionengnr
September 30, 2009, 09:25 PM
One shot stop percentage:
Out of any handgun, assume zero per cent. You may be pleasantly surprised, but the key word is surprised.

Best advice I can give (and I didn't invent the concept, I am only repeating it) is to carry a handgun that you shoot well chambered in the most powerful cartridge you can shoot accurately.

There are a lot of variables involved, and only you can decide what is best for you. But I rate any imaginary "one shot stop percentages" as a distant thirty-fourth (or so) in my choice of carry guns.

Boberama
September 30, 2009, 09:33 PM
I know it's bs and I asked people not to post responses like 'placement is most important' or 'thats junk science'. I just want to know the formula...Now people, the formula is...?

geronimo509
September 30, 2009, 09:34 PM
100% every time I pull the trigger, that darn paper stops in its tracks:rolleyes:

Boberama
September 30, 2009, 09:39 PM
...and I'm not thinking of getting an NAA mini, S.70 Mk.IV for me. Any handgun here has to have a 4.14 inch barrel anyways, otherwise it's illegal.

CWL
September 30, 2009, 11:44 PM
I know it's bs and I asked people not to post responses like 'placement is most important' or 'thats junk science'. I just want to know the formula...Now people, the formula is...?


Maybe the Strasbourg goats have it.

smithmax
October 1, 2009, 05:38 AM
Google is your friend.

Handgun Bullet Stopping Power: Beyond the Hyperbole of Cartridge Advocacy By George B. Bredsten (http://books.google.com/books?id=DkmLzuhLamAC&lpg=PA63&ots=vhpLy_sZes&dq=fuller%20index%20stopping%20power&pg=PA87#v=onepage&q=fuller%20index%20stopping%20power&f=false) Page 87 discusses the Fuller Index. I just skimmed over that book, but it looks like it has a lot of good info.

azyogi
October 1, 2009, 06:39 AM
I heard [can't remember who said it] comparing stopping power by any formula, was like comparing apples to oranges to peaches by smelling the flowers.

earlthegoat2
October 1, 2009, 07:49 AM
Maybe the earlthegoats have it.

Boberama
October 1, 2009, 06:11 PM
Everallm gave me the formula but I have no idea of how to use it. Can someone give me an example? How about 230gr JHP at 850fps, expanding to .75 and penetrating one foot? Thanks. ( the formula is posted on the thread ' fuller index formula, anyone? '

Broken11b
October 1, 2009, 10:38 PM
why are you so hung up on a formula that is pseudo-science at its very best chance? Let me be clear, THERE IS NO FORMULA for the real life application of a one shot stop, there really is no guarantee of a one shot stop. A round must hit the CNS for instant incapacitation of the target, that is the one and only thing that will do it. A shot through the heart will not instantly kill, even a decapitated head can think for several seconds. The only reason people fall over when shot is because they think they are supposed to fall over. It is a psychosomatic reaction to what people have been programmed to believe.
So again I ask, what good does a false formula do?

RioShooter
October 2, 2009, 09:44 PM
Jim Cirillo said the only "one shot stop" he ever witnessed was a head shot. He witnessed bad guys take every other shot you could imagine, including a load of buckshot that hit the spine, and none of them were one shot stops. If you don't disable the CNS, there are NO one shot stops.

BTW, Mr. Cirillo also witnessed head shots that were not effective because the bullets failed to penetrate the skull.

THE DARK KNIGHT
October 2, 2009, 10:21 PM
All right guys, enough of this nonsense. Let's quit pretending and just reveal the secret formula to him. We jerked his chain long enough.

The formula for stopping power is as follows, Boberama:

(X-Y) x .368^2 / (2.3347^Z) x 3.141 + 976 / 3 (G x L )

X = caliber
Y = velocity
Z = barrel length
G = number of tactical accessories mounted to the gun
L = you age plus the temperature, divided by 7

nathan
October 4, 2009, 01:20 AM
Headshots !!! The SPetsnaz are trained to aim right at the forehead with one shot to incapacitate target.

Archie
October 5, 2009, 02:29 AM
I checked the reference on the Bredsten book. Looks like old Bredsten had a lot of time on his hands.

I'm usually good at deciphering this sort of formulation, but I'm stuck. It looks like one must do some testing in ballistic gelatin and perform calculations from that information.

The information showing the formulation is followed immediately by someone attacking Fuller's premise, reasoning, grammar, handwriting and choice of aftershave.

I find the rather loud objections to any sort of calculation to indicate stopping power rather amusing. Whereas, we're pretty certain as a group shot placement is a key element in incapacitation, no one I know advocates carrying a .25 ACP and always placing a good hit on one's adversary. The same people who keep screaming about shot placement only always have a 'bottom level' round as sufficient for self-defense.

For some, the minimum is .380 ACP, for some it's 9x19 NATO and for others nothing that starts with less than '4'.

I wonder on what premise this minimum power level is based?

Bobo, I'm interested in the background and derivation of various theories as well. As I imply from your original posting, you're not overwhelmed with the formula itself, just curious as to the basis of the idea. As I am.

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