[halfded]

Is it possible to buy a S&W model 10 with no lock new? I know they aren't made that way anymore, but I guess there's a chance of finding one.

I bought a "new" model 10 2" barrel. The shop I got it from said that it "came from the factory with no box or manual". Their exact words. Got it home and saw that it has no lock (which is a plus) and a square butt. I read somewhere that S&W stopped making square butt anything in the mid 90's.

The gun looks new, aside from a drag line on the cylinder which I assumed was from it being in the display case and handled. It has a hogue 3-finger rubber grip as well. The fouling in the barrel and cylinder is very light, almost like when you get a new gun that has been test fired.

So, though I'm happy with my purchase, is this revolver truly new from the factory? Or just new as in never shot before but pre-owned? The guy at the shop said that it came "from the factory" so I take that to mean brand spankin' new.

Next question, how bad/big of a deal is it they sold me a used gun under the pretenses that it was new? Is this a problem that I should persue and if so with what authority? I assume state police or ATF right?

I like my new revolver, I just don't appreciate being lied to and paying new price for a used gun.

[batmann]

I can't verify if it is new or not, but I doubt S&W would ship any firearm out without at least a box.
You can find out the year it was made with the serial number, that might help you. I take anything a gun store commando says with a grain of salt.

[halfded]

Alright, just found out...1974-1975. Definitely not new production. So it's not possible that this gun is new, as it's been sold to someone before. Whether they fired it or not is irrelevant right?

Any ideas on how to approach the shop owner about this?

[Phydeaux642]

How much did you pay for the gun? If it was a decent deal and the gun is in good shape, I think I would just keep it and shoot it. If he charged you a premium for the gun then there might be a problem. I would certainly be looking for another shop to deal with in the future, though.

[halfded]

I traded my 45 colt Ruger Vaquero and some ammo for it. The vaquero was a new one in primo condition. I'm pretty angry at the premise that I was lied to.

[Landpimp]

I wouldnt be too upset, you got what I assume is a like new or unfired highly thought of gun, there is nothing you can buy like it new today

just a guess but I bet the seller ment or said its NIB not new like it just came off the S&W boat.....but then again, maybe he lied or was just spouting some BS as he really didnt know.

but I think you did OK considering it was a trade at a dealer

take the M10 out and shoot it.....then let us know if you feel screwed :)

[XavierBreath]

Unless you are a dealer, your Ruger Vaquero is not new. If you are a private owner, it is used.

If you like the Model 10 better than the Ruger, then you did fine IMHO.

Prices of used guns is subjective. A one for one trade for something you like more is always a deal in my opinion.

[halfded]

I asked when I first saw it if it was new, and the response was yes. Then when I asked for the box and manual, I was told that it "came from the factory, no box or anything".

By New I meant New model, but it was in pristine condition.

I just got done cleaning my "new model 10". Had some leading in the barrel and some rust on the grip frame. It appears to have been duracoated maybe as it's more of a matte black than a blued look.

As I stated before, I am happy with my purchase, just not so much at the price (it had a tag of $389+tax) and am contemplating asking them for $100 to make the difference to avoid my filing a complaint with the State Police about their fraudulent firearms sales.

[Airpark]

I am not an attorney, do not play one on TV and do not give legal advice:

HOWEVER:

If you are happy with the purchase as you said you are, then I would not go overboard with this.

You are going to be in an almost "No-Win" situation. It is going to be a "He said...She Said" case and the attorneys are the only ones who will profit.

Define "NEW"...perhaps the guy meant it was new to him. It certainly was new to you. New is a descriptive adjective....hard to define.

If you feel you must vent, go by the store, and in a calm and collected manner make your grievance known...make your case and ask for whatever it is that you want.....REMAIN CALM...you will catch lots more flies with sugar than you will with vinegar.

Good Luck,
Bill

[halfded]

Looking closer, I can see some pitting on the cylinder that was covered over in the refinishing. I'm going to call them in the morning and explain my side of things. Depending how that goes will decide what comes next.

[SharpsDressedMan]

Yes, it's called "New, Old Stock". Never been sold or used, sitting on a shelf.

[halfded]

Thanks, but definitely not the case here.

[welldoya]

Honestly it sounds like maybe you should take somebody more experienced with you when you buy a gun. I'm assuming you are fairly young ? (to me that's less than 30)
In the first place, no Smith is going to ship out of the factory without a box and papers.
You should know that a pre-lock Model 10 is not current production. And you should be able to spot a refinished gun.
If I were you, I would go back to the store and point out the problems. Don't threaten the owner but tell him that you were sold this revolver under the premise that it was new and that's not the case. Ask him what he plans to do about it. If he says nothing, tell him exactly what you are going to do - better business bureau, ATF, etc. Do some research and know what you're options are before you go in the shop. Good luck.

[halfded]

I know what to look for, just tend to be a little impulsive and overlook things until later. I didn't ask for the box and manual until the gun had already been sold to me ( that's the way it always is for me). I know that pre-lock's are a thing of the past, but didn't think to check for it. I thought that the finish was the matte black that some of the S&W's (the bodyguard series or something) are available in now.

My plan of action is to call them and tell them what I found. Then I'm going to ask them if they can rectify the situation by giving me a bit of money back or a couple boxes of ammo maybe; if they denounce all wrongdoing then I'm going to inform them that I'll be contacting the state police to ask if there was any problem with it in their book as far as their FFL license goes, and finally a call to the BBB seems like a good idea.

[2RCO]

Halfded-- I see no problem with talking to the seller to see what they'll do about the situation.

See what they'll do before you start threatening... Especially the contacting the State Police. Sounds like they lied to you but threats usually get you nothing but shown the door. Approach them with tact and you may come out quite well on the deal.

[halfded]

Way ahead of you on the politeness aspect. Get to put the ol' software into action tomorrow.

Much appreciate all the opinions and responses. At least the bore is nice and shiny under the lead I scraped out. Still got a little more to go though.

Anyone know if older smiths, say from the 70's, are +p rated?

[CTSigLover]

Any steel Smith .38 with a model number designation (like your model 10) is safe for use with +P ammo. Difference btw .38 and .38 +p is only a few thousand psi anyhow.

[halfded]

Just got off the phone with them. Apparently it was a mistake on the part of a part time old timer that I talked to. I think they're full of it, but they're going to give me a few boxes of target ammo to make up the difference. At first they offered to reverse the deal. I told him that I liked the gun, just thought that I paid too much for it. So we came to the ammo deal. I wish I could have done a little better, but I like the revo I got (as long as it shoots well) so some fuel for the fire will have to be good enough.

Again, much appreciation for the advice and information.

[Landpimp]

glad it worked out, like to see some pics :)

[Owlnmole]

Getting back to the OP, the Smith & Wesson online catalog lists a number of models as available without locks, "Contact dealer for pricing."

[halfded]

Pics as requested :)

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt332/halfdedsphoto/002.jpg

Does that look like parkerizing or duracoat? Serial # puts it at 1974-1975.

And it's 4" cousin who was kind enough to loan it's stock springs to the 2" after I found reduced power ones had been installed and I was getting light strikes. Got some replacement parts coming from Brownells to put everything back to the way it's supposed to be. Might try the Wolff improved standard power set later, but I like the stock trigger quite a bit.

Date on this one is 1948-1951.

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt332/halfdedsphoto/026-1.jpg

[Kernel]

A used Vaquero for a used pre-lock Mod 10 of equal condition is a trade most would make any day. It would of been nice to get the original factory grips. Assuming those are the grips that came with it. They're obviously aftermarket replacements.

[halfded]

I gave some 45 ammo and threw in the rest of the lead bullets I had (less than 250) as well. But with the new M10 I got 2 holsters (1 useless cheap nylon deal, and a old police (marked by a uniform company on the back) leather holster that was made for my 4", as well as $30. Going back Tuesday to pick up 2 or 3 boxes of ammo that said they'd give me for the "mix-up".

The gun came with a hogue grip, but I put that on the 4" and the Pachmayr on the 2". Same gun up to the barrel, but they both feel better having done the switch. The 2" was too "tall" feeling with the hogue grip, but the 4" is a lot more balanced now. The 4" came with a set of original grip but I just don't like them too much. The target grips on S&W's website however might be coming to my mailbox in short order. Thought about getting a T-grip and using my set of original grips on the 2", but I've never handled one and don't want to end up wasting the money if I don't like it.

Anyone got an extra T-grip they'd like to let me have to try out? :D