[joell33]

I am currently looking seriously looking at the Colt Mustang as a ccw. My curosity recently lead me to look at other options before I pay $500.00 for a used Mustang. I do like the mustang yet my only concern is the .380 round(I know its fine if you hit where you want everytime you pull the trigger). But what if I don't hit perfect is it enough? I looked at the Kahr's and also the comments all of you guys had on the Kahr's and it looks pretty good. It is about the same sized gun except the Kahr weighs a liitle more. But maybe a little more weight to move up to a 9mm isn't so bad. Also I like the idea of a DA for carry vs. the SA. What do the experts think? Gimme some feedback if you don't mind I would greatly appreciate it. As always Carry safe!!!!

[Sean Smith]

Random thought: if you like Colts but don't like .380, consider a Pocket Nine instead of the Mustang.

http://www.pearcegrip.com/images/pocket9.jpg

[ajacobs]

As you have read the kahr's are very realiable and most people are very hapy with them. I don't think there is any reason not to ger the kahr unless you have a preferance for the single action of the mustang.

[10-Ring]

I'd go w/ a Kahr in this case. Maybe even a poly version ;)

[DeltaElite]

The Colt Mustang is a nice gun, I traded mine in and got a Glock 27.
I would go for the Kahr in 40 personally.

[joell33]

Thanks for the info, so far all of the replies about Kahr seem to be positive!

[PCRCCW]

The Kahr 40 even the K' series is a pretty stout little shooter. Great guns that run and run. In a gun that size Id take the Elite trigger over a s/a gun.
The pocket 9 is a nice little pc. by itself, but Id probably rather have a K9 Elite 98 with nights and call it good.
Shoot well

[firestar]

The DAO action of the Kahr makes it a hands down winner IMHO. Do you really want to carry a cocked and locked pistol in your pocket? And if it is not cocked and locked then it is even slower to get into operation than if it was cocked and locked.

Bottom line is, SA pistols are obsoleat for self defense. They are still O.K. for target shooting but carrying around a pistol with the hammer cocked and having to rely on a safty lever just seems inherently dangerous to me. I am clearly not alone on this issue as almost ever police and military has switched to some form of DA pistol.

If it weren't for the cult following of the 1911 style pistol, SA pistols would be used mostly for target shooting.

Flame away you 1911 cult members but know this, I have had two very nice 1911s so I am speaking from experience. I had a Springfield Longslide and a Colt McCormick Factory Racer Commander. Both were accurate and reliable but not the best choice for self defense.

Sorry I got off on a tangent and forgot the original question.

The Kahr is a top notch gun and it will be better in all ways than the Mustang. 9mm beats .380 in power and price. DA beat SA. Kahrs may even be cheaper than a Mustang because i have seen crazy prices on Mustangs like you decribe, $500 for a Mustang?:uhoh: Geesh, who is buying them at those prices? For $500 you could do a lot better than a used Mustang!

[Kahr carrier]

If you dont mind 380 what about a 380 NAA GUARDIAN Msrp $449.00 new.:)

[M1911]

Bottom line is, SA pistols are obsoleat for self defense. They are still O.K. for target shooting but carrying around a pistol with the hammer cocked and having to rely on a safty lever just seems inherently dangerous to me. I am clearly not alone on this issue as almost ever police and military has switched to some form of DA pistol.:rolleyes:

1911s and other SA guns can be carried and used safely. They can also be mishandled. The same is true of any gun.

[mr. e]

Just another testimonial for the Kahr K9. It's got a comfortable grip, a great trigger, very good accuracy, and it's easy to shoot well.

The only problem I've ever had with it was because of what must have been out-of-spec reloads that got stuck in the chamber. I didn't have any problems with my other guns with these hand loads, but I heard that the tight chamber of the K9 contributed to its excellent accuracy.

I've never had any problem with factory loads and the recoil from Speer 124 gr. +P loads is very easy to handle.

[Sean Smith]

Bottom line is, SA pistols are obsoleat for self defense.

So is your spell checker.

And MEUSOC, Delta, FBI HRT & SWAT, and various other SWAT teams would disagree with you. :rolleyes:

[dsk]

Bottom line is, SA pistols are obsoleat for self defense. They are still O.K. for target shooting but carrying around a pistol with the hammer cocked and having to rely on a safty lever just seems inherently dangerous to me. I am clearly not alone on this issue as almost ever police and military has switched to some form of DA pistol.

My turn to whip this guy. :D

Single-action autos were designed for war. They were not designed to avoid liability issues. The double-action auto was invented because it was felt that, since handguns were usually carried more then they were actually shot it would be best to be able to carry them in a loaded but ultra-safe condition. For the average policeman who indeed carries 24/7/365 without hardly ever removing the gun from its holster, and who may not have enough live-fire training to remember little things like keeping his/her finger off the trigger a DA auto makes more sense. For somebody who HAS the training and for whom first-round speed is crucial (elite military, SWAT, etc.) a SA is a much better choice and has remained so since 1911.

Now here's the REAL question: how well-trained are average civilians who carry SA autos all day long? Many are indeed trained as well or better than the average LEO, and can use a SA with tremendous effectiveness. However, if you feel ambivalent about carrying a SA "cocked n' locked" and prefer not to, then you're probably smarter than the other Joe who probably has taken no formal training with one whatsoever!

[DeltaElite]

Bottom line is, SA pistols are obsoleat for self defense. They are still O.K. for target shooting but carrying around a pistol with the hammer cocked and having to rely on a safty lever just seems inherently dangerous to me. I am clearly not alone on this issue as almost ever police and military has switched to some form of DA pistol.

ROFLMAO :D
The DA trigger is for people who don't want to learn how to handle weapons properly.
It is a crutch for the weak minded. ;)
Police and Military have gone to DA, because of the liability lawyers and because they are hiring people who know nothing and want to learn nothing about weapons.

SA weapons are far from obsolete. In fact, they usually show that the person carrying them is a competent pistolero, as opposed to any mook that can carry a DA weapon. :neener:

[New_comer]

I'd get the Kahr first, save up for the Colt later... :D:D:D

[Deuce]

I own a Kahr P9 Covert. It just sits in the safe. It jams far too much to be considered reliable for CCW. At one point, it jammed on nearly every round, at which point, I sent it back to Kahr and they fixed it. However, due to my large hands and the very small grip and short action, I believe limp-wristing is responsible for the occaisonal jam since. If I strangle it, it won't jam.

I've heard plenty of bad things about polymer Kahrs and nothing but good about the steel ones. But, the polymer is quite a bit lighter.

I'm trying to work up the courage to try a P40. I would hope that the longer grip (than my P9 Covert) might help avoid limp-wristing. Maybe I'll just have to get used to strangling the gun all the time. I don't know, but, the polymer Kahrs have definately got the right size, weight, and trigger for CCW IMHO.

Oh ya, and I seem to shoot my P9 Covert single-handed fast fire far more accurately than any other gun I own. If it weren't for my bad experiences with my P9 Covert, I'd probably insist that a polymer Kahr is the ultimate CCW gun.

Good luck.

[Richard]

Another vote for a Kahr 9mm. I own a stainless Kahr K9 and a gussied up E9. I trust my life to these two in the Summer and I prefer to carry them in a Rosen Workman Holster and Alessi Hard Shell Talon Holster. Regards, Richard:D

[Alerion]

If you dont mind 380 what about a 380 NAA GUARDIAN Msrp $449.00 new.

I have a Guardian .380 and a Kahr K-40 Elite 98 so I've had the opportunity to compare the two.

The Guardian is a good gun (actually the frame is made by Kahr for NAA) but the only advantage I'd give it over the Kahr is in overall size. The standard Guardian sights are almost useless and, with it's short grip, recoil is pretty uncomfortable. When I took the Guardian to the range the first time to fire my obligatory pre-carry 200 rounds, I had to stop after 100 rounds because my trigger finger was bleeding and I kept getting blood on everything I touched. The Guardian is a good pocket weapon but it's not something you're going to shoot a lot for fun. (Since it's about a 1 1/2 hour drive to my favorite range I usually shoot a minimum of at least 500 rounds to make the trip worthwhile.)

Accuracy is pretty much the opposite with the Kahr. The sights are good and the gun is more accurate than a 3.5" barrel deserves to be. With the Kahr's weight, low axis bore and (the Elite's) Hogue grips it's a comfortable gun to shoot. I've never stopped shooting the Kahr because it was uncomfortable. A lighter weight (polymer) gun and/or hard grips will probably make the gun less comfortable but probably still not bad.

The (steel) Kahr and the Guardian are both bricks! With either you'll need a good holster. With a Milt Sparks VM-II holster the Kahr is quite comfortable. I carry the Guardian in a "convertible" (http://www.pocketholsters.com) in my rear pocket and it works well as long as I keep my belt cinched up. Overall, I prefer to carry the Kahr when I can.

Given the choice of the Kahr and the Guardian .380 I'd suggest going with the Kahr first. Then, if you're anything like me, you can buy the Guardian later, just because you don't have one! Of course that philosophy is probably why I'm single. :D (But I have LOT'S of guns!) :cool:

Tom

[mini14jac]

Another vote for Kahr.
I had a MK9 that I loved.
Only traded it because I found a PM9.
The Kahr PM9 is a polymer 9mm that holds 6+1 rounds of ammo, and weighs around 19.5oz loaded.
Really close in size to most .380s on the market.

Between the two Kahrs, I have shot over 800rds of 9mm.
Most was fmj, but maybe 150 rounds were mixed hollow points.
No jams.

[denfoote]

Bottom line is, SA pistols are obsoleat for self defense. They are still O.K. for target shooting but carrying around a pistol with the hammer cocked and having to rely on a safty lever just seems inherently dangerous to me. I am clearly not alone on this issue as almost ever police and military has switched to some form of DA pistol.

My turn!!! :D

Ok, I'm not the greatest fan of the 1911!! Many of you know this. But this remark is just plain asinine!!! I may not like the (gack choke :uhoh: ) 1911, but the BHP is another matter. :cool:

True, I have been trained on DA autos, but I'm willing to put the time and training in to learn a new manual of arms!! Also, the best safety is the one between yer ears!!!

[joell33]

Thanks for all of the advice. I am really looking at the Kahr with an interested eye. Price is a little more than the Mustang yet the kahr is new not used. Also my FFL dealer is a friend of mine and I can get a great price on the Kahr. And one last reason is on the Karh website there is a picture of the Mk9 stainless with smooth wood grips looks good for ccw. and Wow what a great looking gun!! thanks again for all the input..

[Handy]

The Kahr trigger is fairly light, and no crutch. Don't be fooled by the term "DAO" into thinking that you can put the gun in your pocket and forget about it. The Kahr requires at least a pocket holster, like a small Glock. They are nice guns, though.

The Mustang has not traditionally been carried cocked and locked, as someone suggested. The safety is rather small. Most are carried loaded with the hammer down. The hammer is large and easy to cock and the weapon has a firing pin block. Decocked, with a round chambered and a pin block, this is an extremely inert weapon in you pocket. There is no way of accidentally setting it off.

The Mustang recoil, due to it's locked action, is mild for a .380. All that being said, Colt QA is so spotty that there is no way to tell you that a 1994 Mustang is questionable and a 2001 Mustang is perfect. But Colt does have a warranty.

Also consider a Rap 9 pistol. Close to the size and weight of a steel Kahr, but with a true DA/SA trigger for safer carry. Cheap, but well made in South Africa.

[Alerion]

The RAP 401 (9mm vs. .40 for the RAP 440) is a very nice gun and a bargain if you're willing to carry something that hardly anybody else had heard of. They are police issue weapons in South Africa. I've never heard of anyone that wasn't pleased with their RAP. That being said, the downside is that there isn't any factory support for them in the US so there could be a problem if you had one that broke.

In brief, the RAPs are about the same size/weight as the Kahr K-series guns. They are DA/SA with a decocker vs. DAO and, in each caliber, carry one more round in the mag than a Kahr. They are sweet shooters! I've never seen a RAP in anything other than blue. The 401 and the 440 are supposed to be the same price but usually dealers that have 440s want more for them. Finding a RAP is the biggest problem however FAC (http://www.gunsnstuff.net/) has them for $199.95 right now!

Attached is a picture of my RAP 401.

BTW RAP (Republic Arms Pistol) is Republic Arms of South Africa. It's not the same as the US company Republic Arms.

Tom

[Alerion]

Here's a picture of my RAP 401 over my Kahr K-40 Elite 98. The dimensions are almost identical!

Tom

[Baron Holbach]

What is the trigger weight for the Kahr DAO?

[Handy]

Maybe 7 to 8 lbs., and it doesn't stage. Long soft pull, then surprise bang.