[janobles14]

so i went out to shoot a buttload of rounds yesterday. now i consider myself a pretty decent shot and have a little plastic trophy or three to back me up. i help the local pd with firearms training classes and shoot regularly. all in all i think my groups are about as tight as they are going to get.

most all of my carry weapons have some sort of trigger work or another and i have most of them tuned to my needs. however, each time i purchase or get to shoot a new stock weapon i do just about as well as i do with one of my custom babies (so long as the sights are on i guess).

now i know that we spend all this $$$ on these weapons because we enjoy shooting, hunting or just being able to do so. but my question is, "do we REALLY shoot that much better after the fact?"

just looking for some stories and opinions on the matter.

[M2 Carbine]

To me shooting is shooting, it doesn't matter what gun I use.

A "good" trigger is certainly a asset and a "bad" trigger can make you work harder, whether bullseye or defense shooting.

Just in the last couple days I was shooting one of my "car guns". It's a Rock Island Armory 1911 that I haven't shot in a couple years. This particular gun is low quality, with a very hard trigger.
Still the gun can be shot accurately but takes more work than a gun with a "good" trigger.

9 rounds. 10 yards.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/RockIslandArmoryandtarget.jpg

[GRIZ22]

I think a lot of people overrate having a good trigger. Many think that the lousy shooting they do will improve with a trigger job. A trigger might need some breaking in but I find it amusing to read people who send a gun off for a trigger job before they have even shot it. Ed McGivern used stock S&W handguns to set all the records he did. I'll bet Jerry Miculek wouldn't be very far off his times if you asked him to do something with a stock handgun. A gun "not made for my hand" is another excuse used for poor marksmanship skills.

I've been a LE Firearms Instructor since 1976 and I've taught people to shoot with whatever the issued or required firearms was. All stock triggers. If you apply what you know you can shoot any firearm well.

[MrBorland]

IMO, a good action job is a nice indulgence, and would likely tighten your groups a bit....but it won't make an instant marksman out of you if you're not already a good shot. It might help you get there easier, though.

Depending on the level you're shooting, the tightened groups may make significant difference. At the elite level, they may be the difference between placing or even winning, and being an also-ran.

AFAIK, Jerry Miculek's always been pretty clear his revolvers may have the actions smoothed but have otherwise stock trigger pull weights. The trigger wouldn't return fast enough otherwise.

[mustang_steve]

A "good" trigger is as subjective as our own choices in handguns.

For example...I dislike glock triggers with a passion...They're easy to pull, but I can't get a good even pull with it if my life depended on it. On the other hand, I'm perfectly at home with a DAO pistol with a 9lb trigger pull.

I haven't had any trigger jobs done yet though. However I think it's safe to say I'm not a fan of light triggers.

[rcmodel]

Jerry Kuhnhausen, in his definative book, "The Cold .45 Automatic, a Shop Manual", rates trigger work (crisp, light, no creep) as adding 50% of the "shooter assist" accuracy to a match 1911.
Good sights rate 25%, and things like match ammo rate 25%.

Work I have done in the past as a gunsmith & shooter with 5th. Inf. AMU seems to concure with that.
Even the best pistol shots in the world can't shoot top scores with a bad trigger.

Todays combat grade guns come out of the box with uniformly bad triggers.

rc

[WardenWolf]

Pretty much what's been said. Most guns have decent to good triggers that won't negatively impact shooting performance. But a genuinely bad trigger will, of course.

[colorado_handgunner]

I have found that if I shoot a gun enough, the trigger tends to smooth out after a few hundred rounds or so. Also try putting a drop of oil in the trigger spring, helps a good bit, I think.

[SharpsDressedMan]

For a person with low to moderate skill level with a handgun, a good trigger may make a significant improvement. For an upper skill level person, a better trigger will make a slight improvment (and this can be the difference of that 10% that moves you up to "distinguished", etc). A shooter with a great deal of trigger time and skill can override a bad trigger to a degree, and shoot the gun better than lesser shooters. Poor shooters and really bad triggers never really go together very well (watch a CCW class for the weaker shooters, and check out the trigger pulls on those with cheaper guns). Is it worth the money? It depends on the gun being modified, how much it costs (now you have to add in two-way tranport to a good pistolsmith, if you don't live near one), and how much "improvement" or gun mastery you will enjoy from that gun at your skill level. I used to have mediocre triggers worked over, but lately, personally, I tend to just use my skill at "trigger control" that I have developed to just enjoy stock guns a bit more. Unless the triggers are really pizz-poor, I just use as-is, but then, I try not to buy guns with really bad trigger pulls.......

[earplug]

As a example I have a 1911 based pistol I have used for Steel, USPSA, then I switch out the top end for a Marvel with a Ultra Dot for 22Lr Bullseye.
This guns trigger has to be good.
I have a DA only M-15 that is a fun gun and a house gun. The trigger has to be good. Same for the several M 625 revolvers I use for home, Steel, USPSA and Bullseye.
People that don't compete and have not used a real nice trigger on a fine weapon don't have a clue.
Its like trying to road race with worn out shocks.

[m2steven]

A good trigger really helps me. That's just me of course. I'm nervous to begin with and an uneven trigger just causes me to foul my aim. With my 1911 i'm deadly. What trigger pull? My Taurus 22 magnum - if you don't shoot it single action - you'll pull a muscle in your hand.

[browningguy]

"do we REALLY shoot that much better after the fact?"

It depends, if you are a good shooter then it will absolutely make a difference. If you aren't a decent shooter then it porbably makes no difference.

[earplug]

I used to have struggling shooters try my old High Standard with a really nice trigger.
They would improve real quick.
Bad triggers suck. If anyone remembers the US Army's switch from the M16A1 to the A2 they might recall the heavy creepy trigger that made long range shooting suck.

[tkopp]

I'm not sure if I shoot better with a 'good' trigger, but I know I shoot better with a lighter one!

After shooting my Tokarev clone I was stringing shots left. Swapped to my Ruger MK II Competition (which has a great trigger) and found myself still stringing left, until I slowed down and thought about it. Having to put that much pressure on the trigger, and by extension counterbalance the effect of the pressure on my point of aim, was hurting me.

I suppose lighter triggers just let me get away with more bad habits ;)

[Shadow 7D]

Owning a gun that has a trigger charitably described as "would make a staple gun proud", and a Mosin-Nagant that I've messed with the trigger to the point were it is semi settable and breaks crisply at about 3.5#, OK so it's a little squishy on the uptake and that makes the actual break a surprise so the set may be right at the break or a little before.

It scares me because I don't know when it'll fire until it does, works great on my flinch until I start flinching at the thought of pulling the trigger...

When you line up on the target and know your trigger, you don't have to worry about the pull versus having to pull so hard that your screwing your aim every time , hold a staple gun and try keep it in line the entire pull. A good trigger never hurts accuracy.

[Steve C]

Jerry Kuhnhausen, in his definative book, "The Cold .45 Automatic, a Shop Manual", rates trigger work (crisp, light, no creep) as adding 50% of the "shooter assist" accuracy to a match 1911.

I certainly agree with this assesment. A good trigger gives you the "surprise" relase needed for best accuracy. Now some people may have extreemly strong hands and may feel an 8lb creepy trigger isn't a handicap but IMO having a good trigger or getting a trigger job on a gun with a lousy trigger is your best bang for the buck for accurate shooting.

[sebtool]

2 examples:

1- I have a Winchester Model 88 in .308 that was my father's, has an old 4x Weatherby scope on it. The 88 is notorious for it's terrible trigger, but for sentimental reasons, I'll never sell it. The gun fits me perfectly, and shoots where I point it! Because of that, it's the rifle I pick up when I go deer hunting 99% of the time.

I recall reading an article by Craig Boddington years ago addressing them, as he liked the rifles as well. He mentioned a shop in Ca. that specialized in reworking the 88's trigger pulls, but it wasn't cheap. I thought about having it done, but couldn't afford it.

But a funny thing happened over the 15+ yrs I've had it. I don't shoot it that much - a little practice, sighting in, plinking for fun once in awhile. Can't afford too much of that, tho!:o Total, I'll bet I've only put about 4-5 boxes of shells thru it.
But I've become a pretty darn good shot with it, if I have to say so myself! It's accounted for a few running deer, and more than a couple that stopped for just a second to 'take their last breath'. I normally don't take running shots on game, but there were times when we needed the meat, the freezer wasn't exactly over flowing, and the deer weren't co-operating with 50 yard broadside shots..... :banghead:I don't recall ever taking more than 2 shots at 1 deer, most have ben 1 shot kills.
Now that probably has something to do with learning how to stage the trigger, might have something to do with shooting a few high power rifle matches, or going squirrel hunting with a .22, and only taking head shots, mebbe all of the above! The bottom line, I adapted.

2 - I have a Ruger Blackhawk in .41 mag that had the trigger worked over before I got it. It's extremely smooth, and breaks like the proverbial glass rod - it's a great shooter!

I don't know anyone who's been shooting for any period of time that doesn't have a day when things just aren't going right - you're not getting the groups you should, pulling the trigger, instead of squeezing, not breathing right, pulling your shots, etc. Anyone who says they haven't, especially when you're just starting out/learning to shoot a handgun is full of it!

And the more ticked off you get, the worse your shooting gets! It's the same shooting pool - you try to force yourself to do better, and do exactly the opposite.
Those were the times when I'd take out my .41, and run a couple of cylinders of reloads thru it. Most times, that was enough to settle me down enough to get back to the basics, and improve my concentration, not to mention confidence to the point where the day wasn't a complete waste! In that case, I'd say that the trigger made a big difference, but again, I didn'thave the experience then, that I do now.

Sounds like it's time to take her out soon! She hasn't been shot in awhile...:o

[jad0110]

The difference between a decent trigger and a great trigger are not as great as the difference between a really bad one and a decent one.

For example, I've got plenty of respect for the Ruger SR9. The slim grip profile feels great to my hand the same way a 1911 does. But every single SR9 I've handled had about the most gawd awful trigger I've ever experienced. At least they were consistently bad. Biggest problem I had with the trigger was the sloppy release with lots of overtravel. Creep doesn't bother me so much, but a gun with a bad release and a lot of overtravel most certainly causes me to throw shots. My 1911 had the same problem, a $50 trigger job later and my groups shrank by more than half.

My Taurus 94 in 22LR was another. The DA trigger was basically unusable because of a huge lump in the pull just before a crappy release. I couldn't hit a pie plate at 7 yds reliably in DA, but in fairness the SA trigger was okay. By comparison, my S&W K-22 has what I would call a "good" DA trigger; with it I can hit golf ball sized targets regularly at 7 yds.

I've considered action jobs on my S&W revolvers, but all but my 686 have decent out of the box DA triggers. Not perfect or excellent, but fine the way the are. The 686 rates somewhere around "fair", but I still manage to shoot it well enough.

An action job, for me, makes more sense on guns with truly bad actions. As long as the pull is decent to me (smooth/even with a good release and a nice strong return the way I prefer), I do well enough. At that point, I'm the limiting factor anyway, so the extra money probably isn't worth it for me.

[janobles14]

The difference between a decent trigger and a great trigger are not as great as the difference between a really bad one and a decent one

ok well thats about as well as ive heard it put.