5-Day waiting period in S. Florida


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numaone
October 6, 2009, 01:30 AM
I was surfing the Florida Firearm statues, something I do when I am bored, and I found an interesting contradiction. In a couple South Florida Counties, like Palm Beach County, there is a 5 day waiting period on ALL firearms(without CCW) including long guns. Now I read statue 790.33, and it indicates this is infact unlawful. What am I missing?

(1) PREEMPTION.--Except as expressly provided by general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, and transportation thereof, to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or regulations relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances are hereby declared null and void. This subsection shall not affect zoning ordinances which encompass firearms businesses along with other businesses. Zoning ordinances which are designed for the purpose of restricting or prohibiting the sale, purchase, transfer, or manufacture of firearms or ammunition as a method of regulating firearms or ammunition are in conflict with this subsection and are prohibited.

(2) LIMITED EXCEPTION; COUNTY WAITING-PERIOD ORDINANCES.--

(a) Any county may have the option to adopt a waiting-period ordinance requiring a waiting period of up to, but not to exceed, 3 working days between the purchase and delivery of a handgun. For purposes of this subsection, "purchase" means payment of deposit, payment in full, or notification of intent to purchase. Adoption of a waiting-period ordinance, by any county, shall require a majority vote of the county commission on votes on waiting-period ordinances. This exception is limited solely to individual counties and is limited to the provisions and restrictions contained in this subsection.

(b) Ordinances authorized by this subsection shall apply to all sales of handguns to individuals by a retail establishment except those sales to individuals exempted in this subsection. For purposes of this subsection, "retail establishment" means a gun shop, sporting goods store, pawn shop, hardware store, department store, discount store, bait or tackle shop, or any other store or shop that offers handguns for walk-in retail sale but does not include gun collectors shows or exhibits, or gun shows.

(c) Ordinances authorized by this subsection shall not require any reporting or notification to any source outside the retail establishment, but records of handgun sales must be available for inspection, during normal business hours, by any law enforcement agency as defined in s. 934.02.

(d) The following shall be exempt from any waiting period:

1. Individuals who are licensed to carry concealed firearms under the provisions of s. 790.06 or who are licensed to carry concealed firearms under any other provision of state law and who show a valid license;

2. Individuals who already lawfully own another firearm and who show a sales receipt for another firearm; who are known to own another firearm through a prior purchase from the retail establishment; or who have another firearm for trade-in;

3. A law enforcement or correctional officer as defined in s. 943.10;

4. A law enforcement agency as defined in s. 934.02;

5. Sales or transactions between dealers or between distributors or between dealers and distributors who have current federal firearms licenses; or

6. Any individual who has been threatened or whose family has been threatened with death or bodily injury, provided the individual may lawfully possess a firearm and provided such threat has been duly reported to local law enforcement.

(3) POLICY AND INTENT.--

(a) It is the intent of this section to provide uniform firearms laws in the state; to declare all ordinances and regulations null and void which have been enacted by any jurisdictions other than state and federal, which regulate firearms, ammunition, or components thereof; to prohibit the enactment of any future ordinances or regulations relating to firearms, ammunition, or components thereof unless specifically authorized by this section or general law; and to require local jurisdictions to enforce state firearms laws.

(b) As created by chapter 87-23, Laws of Florida, this section shall be known and may be cited as the "Joe Carlucci Uniform Firearms Act."


Hmm, not many people in Florida know about the receipt thing. I didn't know about it until I read the statute today. So if I didn't want to wait to purchase a handgun, I could buy a long gun and bring in the receipt and then not have to wait for the handgun? Sounds fishy to me...

Numaone

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scurtis_34471
October 6, 2009, 12:29 PM
I don't pay much attention to that stuff, because my concealed weapons license exempts me from it.

Guns and more
October 6, 2009, 05:20 PM
The waiting period is up to the sheriff. I know, it says not to exceed three days.
My gun dealer says the waiting period starts when you buy the gun. So if you buy a gun online, have it shipped to your FFL, there is no waiting period beyond that.

As far as the receipt thing. I'm guessing a gun store will not honor that.

brboyer
October 6, 2009, 05:55 PM
The waiting period is up to the sheriff. I know, it says not to exceed three days.
My gun dealer says the waiting period starts when you buy the gun. So if you buy a gun online, have it shipped to your FFL, there is no waiting period beyond that.

As far as the receipt thing. I'm guessing a gun store will not honor that.

Wrong

LegalAlien
October 6, 2009, 05:57 PM
The waiting period is up to the sheriff. I know, it says not to exceed three days

In FL (this is what the thread is about), there is no sheriff involvement in a firearm purchase process. Period.

The dealer calls for NICS clearance and that is IT.

brboyer
October 6, 2009, 05:57 PM
I was surfing the Florida Firearm statues, something I do when I am bored, and I found an interesting contradiction. In a couple South Florida Counties, like Palm Beach County, there is a 5 day waiting period on ALL firearms(without CCW) including long guns. Now I read statue 790.33, and it indicates this is infact unlawful. What am I missing?



Hmm, not many people in Florida know about the receipt thing. I didn't know about it until I read the statute today. So if I didn't want to wait to purchase a handgun, I could buy a long gun and bring in the receipt and then not have to wait for the handgun? Sounds fishy to me...

Numaone
You have to know where to look:

Florida Constitution
ARTICLE VIII

LOCAL GOVERNMENT

SECTION 5. Local option.--

. . .

(b) Each county shall have the authority to require a criminal history records check and a 3 to 5-day waiting period, excluding weekends and legal holidays, in connection with the sale of any firearm occurring within such county. For purposes of this subsection, the term "sale" means the transfer of money or other valuable consideration for any firearm when any part of the transaction is conducted on property to which the public has the right of access. Holders of a concealed weapons permit as prescribed by general law shall not be subject to the provisions of this subsection when purchasing a firearm.

Curator
October 6, 2009, 09:53 PM
Law enforcement bends the laws in Florida? Gasp! I can't believe it! At a traffic stop recently in Lee County I had the officer berate me for carying concealed with a loaded gun. (imagine) He claimed I must keep the gun "securely encased" and not within ready access to the driver or passangers despite my Florida CCW permit. He did me a "favor" and didn't arrest me, having given me a stern warning. I'm so lucky!

divemedic
October 6, 2009, 10:07 PM
The five day waiting period only applies to firearms sold on public property (IOW- gun shows)

gideon_70
October 7, 2009, 12:07 AM
I'm a smart ass. I would have asked to speak to the shift super, then demanded that they arrest me for it. Cops have to be trained to be any good ?:)

sig228
October 7, 2009, 02:51 AM
He did me a "favor" and didn't arrest me, having given me a stern warning. I'm so lucky!

I would have immediately filed a complaint against this officer.


The five day waiting period only applies to firearms sold on public property (IOW- gun shows)

Really???? Where did you get that from?

divemedic
October 7, 2009, 08:55 AM
(b) Each county shall have the authority to require a criminal history records check and a 3 to 5-day waiting period, excluding weekends and legal holidays, in connection with the sale of any firearm occurring within such county. For purposes of this subsection, the term "sale" means the transfer of money or other valuable consideration for any firearm when any part of the transaction is conducted on property to which the public has the right of access. Holders of a concealed weapons permit as prescribed by general law shall not be subject to the provisions of this subsection when purchasing a firearm.

I guess a sale that takes place on the sidewalk would be covered as well, but this law is chiefly designed to cover gun shows, which are usually held in public locations like civic centers or fairgrounds. A gun store, being private property, is not covered, as the public has no right of access.

Guns and more
October 7, 2009, 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guns and more

The waiting period is up to the sheriff. I know, it says not to exceed three days.
My gun dealer says the waiting period starts when you buy the gun. So if you buy a gun online, have it shipped to your FFL, there is no waiting period beyond that.

As far as the receipt thing. I'm guessing a gun store will not honor that.

Wrong
Wrong about what? (In your opinion)

chuckusaret
October 7, 2009, 05:30 PM
It is one of the few laws that I agree with that has anything to do with weapons control, keeps the guns out of the convicted felons hands..Get your CCW permit then you don't have the wait.

CoRoMo
October 7, 2009, 05:43 PM
keeps the guns out of the convicted felons hands

You're joking, right?
How does it accomplish that? How could it possibly, ever?

legion3
October 8, 2009, 08:51 AM
I remember when we voted on that, seems like just yesterday but it must have been 10 years ago or so.

As part of the Florida constitution, it granted individual counties not only the right to decide between 3-5 day waiting periods but what private sales were required for regulation. So the rules are different in different counties as to what is required for private sales at gunshows.

Polk county has no restrictions on gunshow private sales, but technically Tampa and Orlando and certainly Miami do. From an FFL in polk county the three day wait does apply at gunshows.

PS, I voted no, I didn't want to give such authority to individual counties because of Miami-Dade and the Gold Coast politics. I have not been to a gunshow in Miami but the stories were told of how cops were stationed on every aisle to make sure no private transactions took place. In other parts of the state uniformed cops are often making the private deals. ;)

kermit315
October 8, 2009, 10:24 AM
anybody know the ins and outs in Escambia County? I havent bought a gun here yet, but might be soon.

Thanks,

Jamie

brboyer
October 8, 2009, 11:52 AM
Wrong about what? (In your opinion)
The part I bolded:

The waiting period is up to the sheriff.

Oh and by the way, it is a fact and not my opinion.

scurtis_34471
October 8, 2009, 12:07 PM
As I mentioned earlier, none of this stuff matters if you get a CWL.

SFB
October 8, 2009, 07:15 PM
The five day waiting period only applies to firearms sold on public property (IOW- gun shows)

(b) Each county shall have the authority to require a criminal history records check and a 3 to 5-day waiting period, excluding weekends and legal holidays, in connection with the sale of any firearm occurring within such county. For purposes of this subsection, the term "sale" means the transfer of money or other valuable consideration for any firearm when any part of the transaction is conducted on property to which the public has the right of access. Holders of a concealed weapons permit as prescribed by general law shall not be subject to the provisions of this subsection when purchasing a firearm.

I guess a sale that takes place on the sidewalk would be covered as well, but this law is chiefly designed to cover gun shows, which are usually held in public locations like civic centers or fairgrounds. A gun store, being private property, is not covered, as the public has no right of access.


I might be confused but are you saying that if you purchase a gun at a gun store there is no waiting period? There is a 5-day waiting period on all firearm purchases in Miami-Dade (without CCW). I'm not a lawyer or claim to be good at reading legal jargon but I believe the way the law is written that a business that is open to the public is considered a place that the public has a right to access (i.e. gun store, wal-mart, bps, etc..)

But everyone should just get a CCW, if only to avoid the waiting period.

divemedic
October 9, 2009, 11:25 AM
There is a 5-day waiting period on all firearm purchases in Miami-Dade (without CCW). I'm not a lawyer or claim to be good at reading legal jargon but I believe the way the law is written that a business that is open to the public is considered a place that the public has a right to access (i.e. gun store, wal-mart, bps, etc..)

No. You have no right to access of Wal Mart. Wal Mart can ask you to leave, or ban you from the premesis.

The 5 day wait under the local option can only legally apply to sales occurring on public property (Government owned property- civic centers, streets, sidewalks, etc). The three day wait specified in state statute only applies to handguns. No waiting period applies to CCW holders.

I might be confused but are you saying that if you purchase a gun at a gun store there is no waiting period?

Where the confusion comes in is that there are two laws in play here:

Art I, Section 8 of the Florida Constitution, codified by statute 790.0655, which puts a three day waiting period in place for all handgun sales statewide, but CCW holders are exempt (as are a few other categories).

The second law, Art VIII, Section 5 of the Florida Constitution, which allows counties to enact a 3-5 day wait for all firearms sales that occur on public property, but all CCW holders are exempt from this law as well.

SFB
October 9, 2009, 01:24 PM
The 5 day wait under the local option can only legally apply to sales occurring on public property (Government owned property- civic centers, streets, sidewalks, etc). The three day wait specified in state statute only applies to handguns. No waiting period applies to CCW holders.

I see. However, and I'm not saying you are wrong or trying to argue with you, but every firearm (handgun/long gun) you buy in Miami-Dade county at a gun store (private property) has a 5-day waiting period on it. I'm not too concerned as I have my CCW, but before I did I had to wait 5 days on a shotgun as did some other friends on rifles.

divemedic
October 9, 2009, 05:20 PM
If that is indeed the case, then the Dade county ordnance needs to be taken down in court, as that law is unconstitutional under Florida's constitution. Have you contacted the NRA?

Edited to Add:

Here is the Dade County ordnance:

(d) Sale and delivery of firearms; mandatory criminal records check. No person, whether licensed or unlicensed, shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or deliver any firearm to another person when any part of the transaction is conducted on property to which the public has the right of access within Miami-Dade County until all procedures specified under section 790.065, Florida Statutes, have been complied with by a person authorized by that section to conduct a criminal history check of background information as specified in that section, and the approval number set forth by that section has been obtained and documented. Upon the repeal of section 790.065, Florida Statutes, no person, whether licensed or unlicensed, shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or deliver any firearm to another person when any part of the transaction is conducted on property to which the public has the right of access until all procedures specified under any other state or federal law which requires a national criminal history information or national criminal history check on potential buyer or transferee of firearms have been complied with by any person authorized by law to conduct the required national criminal history or background records check and any required approval under such state or federal law or rule has been obtained. "Person" for purposes of this subsection shall include any person, including, but not limited to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer and any unlicensed person.
In the case of a seller who is not a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer, compliance with section 790.065 or its state or federal successor shall be achieved by the seller requesting that a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer complete all the requirements of section 790.065 or its state or federal successor. Licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers may charge a reasonable fee of an unlicensed seller to cover costs associated with completing the requirements of section 790.065.
(e) Exemptions. Holders of a concealed weapons permit as prescribed by state law and holders of an active certification from the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission as a law enforcement officer, a correctional officer, or a correctional probation officer as set forth in state law shall not be subject to the provisions of this section.
Sales to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer or licensed dealer shall not be subject to the provisions of this section.


Under this law, FTF sales are illegal if any part of the sale occurs on public property. I am not sure that is constitutional.

SFB
October 9, 2009, 06:49 PM
Sadly it is indeed the case. Maybe Miami-Dade defines "property to which the public has the right to access" differently? I'm not sure. Or maybe it's a case of gun stores making their own laws? I just know others and myself have had to wait 5 days when purchasing long-guns from gun stores. It seems odd that this could go on for so long if it were unconstitutional in a county that has the highest amount of CCW holders and probably close to if not the highest amount of gun ownership in Florida.

divemedic
October 9, 2009, 08:19 PM
Now- the gun store is free to increase a waiting period all they want. If the store wants to make you wait 30 days, they can. The question here is what is the county government requiring, and is someone willing to challenge an unconstitutional law?

chuckusaret
October 9, 2009, 11:20 PM
How does it accomplish that? How could it possibly, ever?

They are at least restricted from buying a firearm thru a dealer.
A Firearms Transaction Record, or Form 4473, is a United States government form that must be filled out when a person purchases a firearm from a Federal Firearm License holder (such as a gun shop).
The Form 4473 contains name, address, date of birth, government-issued photo ID, National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) background check transaction number, make/model/serial number of the firearm, and a short federal affidavit stating that the purchaser is eligible to purchase firearms under federal law. Lying on this form is a felony and can be punished by up to five years in prison in addition to fines, even if the transaction is simply denied by the NICS.[citation needed]

divemedic
October 9, 2009, 11:52 PM
They are at least restricted from buying a firearm thru a dealer.

and yet criminals have no problems getting guns. Or drugs, even though those have been totally banned for how long? No law that outlaws a thing can ever be successful. This does nothing but hobble the citizen who isn't going to be using the gun to break the law.

SFB
October 10, 2009, 09:02 AM
i'll look into it divemedic, i'm pretty sure it is standard through out the county as friends made their purchases at different stores than i and still waited the 5 days.

numaone
October 10, 2009, 07:14 PM
SFB, it is standard. From West Palm Beach, all the gun shops have 5 day wait on ALL firearms without a CCW. Good find on the State Constitution, but why the contradiction with the statute?

FlaChef
October 12, 2009, 04:01 PM
As i recall, the constitutional amendment was written after state code 790 went into effect. But by drafting it as a constitutional amendment (at the time I believe only requiring 51% of the popular vote) it trumps 790 and it's preemption clause.

Basically and end run that circumvented existing law, since most people are not very up on such matters and it sounded reasonable (it was the 90's) the people voted for it.

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