kahr pm45 vs glock 26


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memphisjim
October 6, 2009, 09:05 AM
Im considering these two guns. Purpose will be a small powerful ccw. Probably carried iwb holster. If both guns had equal reliability id get the pm45 without a second thought. I dont want to go larger than these firearms. Im glock 26 is too large and i think id prefer the glock 26/27 over the pm9 or pm40.
Im curious is there reason to believe the karh will be glock reliable?
Something else to consider is that for the price of the pm45 i can get the 26/27
plus extra mags, holster, and a crimson trace.

What is the word on the pm45?

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memphisjim
October 6, 2009, 09:14 AM
ps pictures of a glock 26/27 with a pm45 would be awesome
ive held both
the pm45 seems smaller in every aspect but grip length

Ed4032
October 6, 2009, 10:34 AM
I cannot comment on the Glock. I do have a Kahr PM45. It has been constant trouble. I have sent it in to Kahr 3 times and it still does not work. I have a Kahr CW9 that is perfect but the 45 is a POS.

memphisjim
October 6, 2009, 10:46 AM
why are they sending it back if it isnt fixed?

ByAnyMeans
October 6, 2009, 02:37 PM
I CCW a Glock26 and love it. It is very versatile and can almost always be carried. I can always have a 15 or 17 round mag as a reload and when concealment allows also use a larger mag in the gun. I keep a fifteen rounder when the 26 is on nightstand duty.

I had tried the smaller guns in 9mm or larger and it was either harder to accurately and quickly make hits or was just slightly easier to conceal. A G26 can be shot all day without a problem even if it's all with a ten rounder. I find the sub-compact model feels the best in my hand as well. This allows one gun for everything except "speedo concealment".

Best part is the best holster I have found for the Glock is their combat holster which can be found for 10-15 bucks. It is OWB which gives great comfort but rides high and into the body for good concealment. Get yourself a good IWB holster (preferably tuckable) and a good gun belt and your set. I also use a Desantis pocket holster for times when i'm wearing pants that allow pocket carry or a jacket/sweatshirt pocket. ALWAYS keep your Glock trigger covered .

YMMV

memphisjim
October 6, 2009, 02:45 PM
byanymeans
i have full confidence in the glock
and think its probably the smartest choice
but the feel of the pm45 is so awesome
if kahr can make it work id love it

Ed4032
October 6, 2009, 05:39 PM
why are they sending it back if it isnt fixed?
They claim they have fixed it. But when I shoot it it jams fails to feed. I have had other problems with it and they have fixed those, but more problems develop. I really like the gun it just jams, fails to feed or stove pipes way too much. The spring for the slide is so tight that I have a hard time pullling it back to clear. I just got a RMA from them today and I am sending it back. Their customer service attitude leaves much to be desired.

iblong
October 6, 2009, 05:57 PM
I had a glock 26 it was very reliable and accurate for its size and handled recoil very well.
That said I sold it,I didnt like the way it fit my hand and the thickness of it in my waist band.I bought kahr cw40 and had issuses,I then bought a cw9 the wife took it before I even shot it she carries it daily if shes dressed its on her.we have a about 2,000 through it and have not had one failure and that includes the break in period.I hand load so I didnt want the poly barrel or I would have bought the PM 9.Were very happy with it,Its accrate,light and very easy to conceal.
Bob.

hawk45
October 6, 2009, 06:04 PM
I have never had a Kahr but the reputation for FTF's is too long and well published for me to take the chance. I have a G26 and it is one of my favorites. Goes bang with everything I throw at it, conceals well, draws well for a 3 finger gun and is very accurate. If this is going to be a CCW, make sure you buy something that goes bang when you need it.. you don't want to be wondering if will jam at the worst time possible.

bri
October 6, 2009, 06:53 PM
I picked up a G26 a few months ago and have carried it IWB, OWB and in the pocket with a Desantis Nemesis. Not a single failure through 200 rounds from the stock 10 rnd mag, stock mag with a pearce +1 extension, G17 mag and finally the 33 rnd G18 mag. Can't ask for much more than that.

I'm a Glock fan, so it was an easy choice but it should be at the top of anyone's list for a subcompact 9mm.

greenlion
October 6, 2009, 07:21 PM
I have a glock 26, glock 30sf, and a Kahr PM9. The only reason I went with a Kahr at all was the slimmer, smaller PM9. I've had no trouble from the Kahrs I've owned, but If I were thinking about carrying something as big as a Kahr PM45, I'd just go with the G26, G27, or G30sf. I don't really feel like that short a barrels gets you anywhere with a .45acp. 45acp is already a slow round, and when you take 2 inches off the usual 1911 barrel length, I doubt its going to perform any better than +P 9mm, maybe worse.

Racinbob
October 6, 2009, 07:36 PM
Go with the Glock. My PM9 was a nightmare and Kahr's service was the same except for the fast turnaround. I'm not a big Glock fan only because of their looks. But they can be trusted to go bang.

ByAnyMeans
October 6, 2009, 08:31 PM
memphisjim:



I understand, when a gun just feels right there is an instant bond. That being said given how many problems people seem to have on the same gun even after being fixed
I would only trust it if it worked straight from the box. If I would have to send it back I would always have a doubt in my mind.

distra
October 6, 2009, 09:35 PM
Go Glock and forget the Kahr. I had a P45 that was trouble out of the box. Sent it back to Kahr, they fixed, but I sold it once I picked up my G36. Kahr's QC needs a little work.

memphisjim
October 8, 2009, 10:37 AM
you guys are confirming what ive already though
i was almost wanting someone to talk me into the kahr

2cooltoolz
October 24, 2009, 12:12 PM
memphisjim,
I landed on this post from a Google search of "PM45", as I am also considering one. I have owned several "compact" 45s, including S&W CS45, SIG P245, AMT Backup, and a .45 ACP derringer. Also a couple of full size.
But I don't wear Hawaiin shirts, cowboy vests, overcoats in the Houston summers, or big baggy T-shirts. My work mandates Khaki or dress slacks and tucked in dress shirts, and after years of that I even do yard work "tucked in".
So I pocket carry. All the time.
All of the above are too large, or too heavy for pocket carry. The derringer wasn't bad, but it was a derringer. Two shots; hard to shoot.
The bad reviews have made me decide to pass on the PM45, or at least wait for Kahr to get it right. It took three generations of PM9 before they got it right.
My question to you is, why the G26 vs. the PM45?
I've owned a G26, and it worked beautifully, but it's too large for pocket carry and if you have to IWB/OWB might as well get a Glock 36 or 30. I sold my G26 and bought a PM9. I carry it all day, every day. When I get dressed, I slip it in my pocket (in a DeSantis Nemesis), and put it away right before I go to bed (I have a full size/hi cap bedside gun). Total of 5 FTFs in the first 500 rounds, 100% in the 1500ish since.
I'm just wondering why the apples to oranges comparo?
Glocks are great handguns, but they won't fit in your pocket anyway, so get the Glock .45 and IWB/OWB. Or get a 9mm you can pocket.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=107837&d=1256401609

sidheshooter
October 24, 2009, 01:09 PM
That Glock 36 is pretty sweet...

But that G26 is a known quantity, highly accurate, shootable, reliable, cheap to practice with... the list goes on. Has all the good looks of a crowbar, but it's about as dependable and efficient as one too.

InkEd
October 24, 2009, 01:29 PM
I have a mk9 with over 3000 rounds through it. The only problem it has ever given me was from poor quality reloaded ammo that wouldn't shoot well from any gun I tried it in; including a glock 19. I now have polymer kahr that I prefer to the all steel version and it has been great as well. It stovepiped twice with practice ammo during the break in period but never a problem since the first 150 of the 200 recommended break in.

The thing about this is thread is you are comparing two very different guns. If you like the kahr compare it to another slim gun like the walther or something. And the glock to the xd or similar. I think you need to figure out what features you want most and buy based on that decision. Just my .02 apples to apples and blah, blah, blah.

distra
October 24, 2009, 01:39 PM
Im curious is there reason to believe the karh will be glock reliable?

Nope, IMHO there is NO reason to believe a Kahr is as reliable as a Glock. I've owned a P45 and had reliability issue. Once I got it back from the factory it hit the auction block. My Glocks on the hand have never given me trouble. I'd take a G36, 30, or 26/27 over a Kahr any day of the week. There is no comparison in my book.

Extremely Pro Gun
October 24, 2009, 01:46 PM
Check out the glock 27 or 33. They both have TONS of options. They will accept ALL lengths of Glock mags for extra ammo carry when your clothing permits. Ones a 40 and the other is a 357 sig. Either one will be able to shoot 9mm, 40, and 357 with the right conversion barrels.

Glock 27 .40
I have a 9mm storm lake conversion barrel.
I have 357 Glock factory barrel.
I have one 10 rnd 9mm mag.
I have one 10 rnd 40/357 mag. (factory extension)(40/357 mags are interchangeable)
I have four 9 rnd 40/357 mags.
I have one 40/357 mag from the glock 22 that holds 15 with a promag fit sleeve on it.

You see all the options? Beats a Kahr right?? :D

So you can shoot any of the 3 calibers with 3 size magazines each!!!

jocko
October 24, 2009, 04:03 PM
glocks are just great guns, that being said my 3 kahrs have been flawless. Y jPM9 has 25,000 rounds through it and never an issue. My K9 has 4500 rounds through it and never an issue. My new P380 has right at 1400 rounds and the only thing it has trouble feeding properly is the 102 grain golden sabres. all esle works perfect.

Great guns IMO, U won't pocket carry any glock that is for sure. If u gonna waist band carry then indeed there are oddles of great guns for that purpose..

I love my G19, probalby the most accurate semi have ever owned, that being said it is my range gun and home gun along with my K9 . a super shooter for me after some serious tuning by accurate-iron.com

Prosser
October 25, 2009, 12:02 AM
2COOL:
Would you please add a loaded weight category to your chart?

memphisjim:
Kahr trigger, at least my PM9, and accuracy, are far better then what I've been able to do with a Glock. I hate the glock trigger, and, have not shot any but the 34 well.

To get a Glock to be in my shooting zone, it needs a LOT of work and money spent. New barrel, so I can shoot my brass again, trigger kit,etc.

I'm sitting here thinking which Glock I'd buy, if I was just going to buy and shoot it, without modification, other then springs, and maybe a barrel. Then, I keep thinking that unless I get a great buy, I can buy a GREAT 1911 for that, or, an RIA for a couple hundred less.

2cooltoolz
October 25, 2009, 12:51 AM
2COOL:
Would you please add a loaded weight category to your chart?

The table was compiled from manufacturers sites. I went back to Glock and they do list loaded, but I don't know what their standard ammunition is. Kahr lists Pistol weight and magazine weight. I estimated the Kahr weights using the pistol + magazine + a full load of military issue ball published weights (M1911 .45 ACP = 331 gr = .69 oz and M882 9mm Nato = 179 grains = .37 oz). Keep in mind, I'm not trying to sell anything here. I'm going through the same issues as the OP, trying to find a .45 I can live with as an EDC.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=108004&d=1256528197

trigun87
October 25, 2009, 01:41 AM
+1 for the G26, Carry mine most off the time. Keep a 17 rounder in the glovebox. Also have a couple 33rd mags for range purposes.I love thee 33rd'ers, beats loading a mag every couple of minutes.

m2steven
October 25, 2009, 10:27 AM
I have a Glock 26 and it's a very nice pistol. No problems as usual. I also have Kahr's PM9 and E9 and they have both been perfect. The PM9 is my primary carry weapon. It's just a great 9mm pistol. It is my opinion that my personal PM9 is as reliable as my Glock and am trusting my life with it. I've done everything to get it to malfunction and can't.

I have heard of problems with the 40's and 45, but I believe that the 9's are great guns, problems listed notwithstanding.

The PM9 and E9 are both easier on the hand than the Glock 26. It does not hurt to shoot the 26, it just has a bit more transmitted energy than the Kahrs.

If you like the Glock - you can depend upon it and it's good as a multiple 1000's of rounds range gun - as are the Kahrs.

psp7304
October 25, 2009, 06:13 PM
I had a Kahr PM9 that I couldn't get to run right. It seems that the Kahr polymer pistols are the problem guns. From everything I have read, the Kahr steel pistols are fine.

Go with Glock.

jocko
October 25, 2009, 06:38 PM
2cooltools. My kahr PM9 loaded with 124 grain gold dots weighs 18 ounces.

jocko
October 25, 2009, 06:45 PM
m2steven. Yup kahrs won't hold up!!! My PM9 has 25,000 rounds down range and has never given one issue. Change recoil springs ever so often and oh yes it can and does ride in my front pocket 24/7.

is it as reliable as glocks??? ask the Indiana state police who bought 1200 new G22's about 4 yerars ago and had so many issues that glock had to step in and take ALL OF THE G22's back and reissued them G17, which they carry to this day. Yup glocks will never let u down, down, down, down. I own a G19 and love it great range and home defense gun, certaily won't ride in my front pocket. If u can't carry it 24/7 then it ain't a ccw/defense gun, IMO.

I trust my kahr as much as my G19 that is for sure and vice versa. Both great guns, both IMO designed to do different things...

DeepSouth
October 25, 2009, 07:37 PM
I have a PM45 that have had one jam with, at round 39, during the 200 round break in period, it has run 100% for me ever since. I love the little gun but I think a glock would be more reliable, meaning it wouldn't need a 200 rd break in and it would be more "user friendly" ..........You know a point and click type of gun.

I also think the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of complaints with the PM45 are operator malfunction, that would be why KAHR sends them back and then they have the same problem as when it left.....the operator hasn't been fixed.

I'll break it down like I honestly see it.

Glock pros

easier assembly/disassembly process, lower maintance......especially for the people who don't read an owners manual

Round count.......You can never have to many

More reliable, mainly because of no break in required and less prone to operator screw ups

More holster options

I think the finish will hold up better....I have seen pics of worn Kahr's, but mine seems to be holding up fine. I've never seen a severely worn Glock

more options due to popularity, Interchangeable mags and such



Kahr Pros

accuracy is amazing for such a short barrel or even a long one

recoil is shockingly mild..... significantly less than my XD .40

concealment, due to smaller size......I pocket carry mine in carpenter pants

trigger is much better

Grip angle and general 'feel of the gun are the best I ever held

it isn't butt ugly.....couldn't help it:neener:


I don't know about either's Customer Service as I have never had to use either.
In the end I think the KAHR is superior in quality and the Glock is more "user friendly" they both have their place. I wanted an reliable, accurate, pocketable, .45 so I bought the KAHR and couldn't be happier, I do keep it good and clean I suspect it would have trouble, as would any quality tight fitting auto, if I didn't.

2cooltoolz
October 25, 2009, 10:27 PM
2cooltools. My kahr PM9 loaded with 124 grain gold dots weighs 18 ounces.
Yep. I weighed mine and it does, too! (actually almost 19). I mixed apples and oranges. I got the PM9 data from an old chart of mine and it already had the mag weight added, then I added it again. Oops...I'll fix it later...wife is yellin right now.

edit-------------
OK, fixed now. Double checked the other Kahrs, too. They were OK. Just added the mag weight twice on the PM9. (My EDC also, by the way.)

Prosser
October 25, 2009, 11:03 PM
Deep South gave me a pretty good starting point:
Glock pros

easier assembly/disassembly process, lower maintance......especially for the people who don't read an owners manual

Round count.......You can never have to many

More reliable, mainly because of no break in required and less prone to operator screw ups
Should read more reliable due to huge chambers that deform and wreck brass for reloading.

Polygonal rifling that increase speed, but means no cheap lead reloads for practice.

Generally undersprung for caliber, and, require new springs early on.

More holster options

I think the finish will hold up better....I have seen pics of worn Kahr's, but mine seems to be holding up fine. I've never seen a severely worn Glock

more options due to popularity, Interchangeable mags and such

Cheap to customize, but, for some of us, really needs customizing to shoot the gun well. Better trigger, replacement barrel, with standard rifling, and, tighter, better supported chambers.

Over-priced, but, high production and police trade-ins mean deals ARE out there.


Glock 30 has been known to shoot 45 Super easily, with minor modification, and, the Glock 29 is 10MM, the only out of the box service calibers that really gets the service calibers out of the marginal category.


Kahr Pros

accuracy is amazing for such a short barrel or even a long one

recoil is shockingly mild..... significantly less than my XD .40

concealment, due to smaller size......I pocket carry mine in carpenter pants

trigger is much better

Grip angle and general 'feel of the gun are the best I ever held

it isn't butt ugly.....couldn't help it

Kahr seems to take a while to get it right. I think they learned the idea of beta testing new products on the populace from Glock.

Over-priced. Production is either low, or demand very high.

Tight chambers, stiff for caliber springs, require break in period. But, when broken in, the gun is sprung properly for caliber.

Also brass lasts longer, and is easily reloadable.

jocko
October 26, 2009, 07:58 AM
both good guns, we can nit pick eachone tillthe cows come homne but they will both go bang when needed and I own them both and love them both and carry only one due to size and weight. I think u can figure that one out..

DeepSouth
October 26, 2009, 09:26 PM
gun test | handguns 2009 buyer's guide, p. 32-37
by walt rauch


glock 36
the glock pistol is about as simple and user-friendly as a semi-auto can be. It is also extremely reliable and its durability second to none. The glock uses a tenifer finish on its primary metal parts and its frame is made from a variation of a polymer (dupont 66) which is equally as durable, if not more so, than metal. The glock is a 20th century version of the revolver. Load it, pull the trigger to fire and otherwise keep your finger off its safe action trigger the trigger is more double-action than single-action, but doesnít fit either technical definition. What it does provide, though, is a relatively heavy, 6 to 9 pound but short trigger pull. It moves further to fire than the single-action but less than the double-action trigger. In effect, you get the best of both (trigger) worlds in a carry pistol.
The glock 36 uses a dual recoil spring, but the glock system is longer (with matching slide configuration) than those used in the colt and kahr pistols. It, too, should be changed frequently.
An examination of the g36 magazine shows that much thought has gone into developing it. Technically, it is a staggered rather than a single-column magazine. While wider and longer than the colt and kahr magazines, it is set up to hold only six rounds. Its base pad encircles the magazine body, allowing a stronger and longer spring. It is apparent to me that mr. Glock made a deliberate effort to ensure reliability over super compactness.
Iíve tested one and found that it runs with all standard-velocity and the few +p loads i fired. Range accuracy is all that one could ask for. When i do my part and donít jerk the trigger, i get 2-inch five-shot groups at 20 yards from a seated and arm-rested position. This sample happens to have the original white dot front and white outline square notch rear sight changed to heinie straight eight night sights by its owner. Which are the better? My wife swears by glock factory sights, as do many others. I like them and the heinie sights too. Fortunately, the glock sights are dovetailed into the slide and are easily removed or adjusted for windage. The frame is stippled on its sides with raised cross-hatching on front and backstrap and, like all glocks, gives the shooter a good gripping surface.


kahr pm45

kahr pm45 with two groups of five rounds each, 2.5" and 2", at 20 yards.
The kahr pm45 has evolves from the full-sized version. Justin moon is the inventor and designer of the kahr arms pistol. He took features from the glock design and added his own. He has freely acknowledged his admiration for the glock design.
The kahr arms pistol uses a trigger mechanism similar to the glock, but moon figured out a way to give much more of a double-action trigger pull feel to it. The kahr pistols are quite slim and made from either all stainless steel or stainless steel slides on a polymer frame. Beginning with a compact pistol, moon both downsized and up-sized his design. Here, he did his work in further reducing the size of his p45 pistol into the pm45.
The kahr guns use the same dual recoil spring system as the glock and the colt new agent. I queried a kahr arms representative concerning the pm45ís spring life and was told replacing it every 1000 rounds is advised, assuming standard-velocity loads. Moon's answer to proper timing was very much correct by limiting magazine capacity to five rounds in a magazine body, which could well hold six, particularly if a hollow base pad were to be used.
Range work with the pm 45 was the same as líve experienced with all the kahr pistols in other calibers iíve tested, reliable, accurate, easy to use. And, they have no external manual safeties. Trigger pull weight runs in the 6 pound range and to use and it works like a double-action revolver.
Five rounds fired supported from a table rest will do 2-inch groups from 15 yards without much effort. The sights are three white dots or three tritium inserts surrounded by white in the ramp front and square notch rear and dovetailed into the slide. The frame is “checkered” and pebbled for gripping.


...........

Zerodefect
October 26, 2009, 09:41 PM
The Glock 36 is the problem child of the bunch, but I think they have it sorted by now.

The Glock 27 and 26 are fine weapons that I can count on. I know they are going to work. I've never ever had a Glock malfunction in my hands ever. Ever. I can recommend G26/27/33/23/19/17/32/21/20 easy. Have fired/ owned each and they were all flawless.


Kahr's would be flying off the shelf if they actually worked. To anyone who has 1000 rounds through a Kahr with no malfuntions. I am jealouse. Don't ever sell that Kahr because there are a whole lot of Kahr lemons out there. And it shows, I have a fine selection of dusty Kahrs at my local store. They just don't move.

If Kahr can work out there bugs I'll be the first to grab a P380. Great, comfortable, slim, well finished guns, perfect for carry. If only I could count on them.

But I need a carry gun to run 100%. My Glocks do that.

Prosser
October 27, 2009, 03:21 AM
I don't think it's the reliability, but the price. Kahr's are around 600-1000 dollars in this area. Glocks are under 600. The Kahr's are NOT near worth two glocks, that simple.

Plus, not much you can do with a Kahr except shoot it.

No new super accurate barrels with tight chambers. No trigger jobs. Just buy, shoot.

What I can't figure out is why the Glock subcompact Glocks that look by far the best on paper are ignored:
The 33, if you are a light fast, high capacity type: 357 125's at .357 Magnum velocity, or, if you are heavy and kind of fast the G39 .45 GAP, 200 grains at 950 fps, or 185's at 1000 fps?

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