Bad primers????


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REX6859
October 6, 2009, 07:00 PM
fOUND SOME WOLF SP PRIMERS & BOUGHT THEM ABOUT 2 WEEKS AGO. NEVER USED THEM BEFORE BUT...... I LOADED UP MY FAVORITE LOAD IM 9mm & TRIED 6 OF THEM . OK. SO I LOAD UP 400 ROUNDS. LAST WEEKEND I GOT TOGETHER WITH MY SON HIS WIFE & A FREIND OF THEIRS TO TARGET PRACTICE. GUESS WHAT? GOT OUT MY P89 3 RD SHOT SNAP. PULL TRIGGER 2ND TIME BOOM. IT WAS LIKE THAT ALEAST 2 OUT OF EVERY 10 ROUNDS. SO I'M THINKING I NEED WORK ON MY GUN. GAVE A BOX TO MY SON , HE SHOTS A SPRINGFEILD FTF 3-4 OUT OF 10. HIS FREIND SHOOTS A SMITH 2-3 FTF EVERY 10 OR SO. SO NOW I'M THINKING PRIMERS RIGHT? DAUGHER IN LAW SHOOTS A BERRETTA 150 ROUNDS NO FTF. I STARTED CHECKING THE DEPHT OF THE PRIMERS AFTER 2 OR 3 FTF. LOOKED OK TO ME. SO WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?????????

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Mags
October 6, 2009, 07:18 PM
I think you should turn the caps lock off. As for the primers they just weren't seated deep enough the first stike seated the primer the rest of the way and the second strike fired the primer.

helg
October 6, 2009, 07:28 PM
On a first look this is CapsLock problem. The CapsLock key is usually located to the left of the 'A' key on a keyboard.

Fail to fire for the first time with firing at the second is usually primers. They should be seated deeper, until primer touches the edge of a primer pocket. Some brass has deep primer pockets, and other has shallow. With deep primer pockets properly seated primer on the loaded round looks seated deeper.

351 WINCHESTER
October 6, 2009, 07:28 PM
I had my first click-bang last week. It was a cci lr. First one I've ever had.

Duce1
October 6, 2009, 08:22 PM
I visit another forum on surplus rifles and such and there was a guy who posted over there a little while ago that he had problems with wolf primers failing ?

So it sounds like your not the only one !

I have never found wolf primers in my area so it is usually CCI or Winchester primers for me .

REX6859
October 6, 2009, 09:29 PM
But why 3 pistols with FTFs & one not ?

Shooter57
October 6, 2009, 09:56 PM
may have a stronger spring pushing the firing pin. and it can slam the primer down and fire it in one pass. Don't understand the FTF? this is usually used to describe fail to feed. or your using it for fail to fire.

ants
October 6, 2009, 10:52 PM
I hope you conclude that it's always the fault of the components.
So you'll quit buying the components I need. More for me.

Yes, it's the bad Wolf primers. You should stop buying them.
Get Federal or CCI instead. But not Winchester, I like those.

Wolf primers are tight in the pocket, so you have to make sure you seat them all the way. Otherwise they will fail to fire. :)

ArchAngelCD
October 7, 2009, 03:48 AM
Wolf primers are just fine. Make sure you seat them correctly next time.

Walkalong
October 7, 2009, 09:12 AM
Primers not seated all the way and weak springs are the two main causes of misfires, with not being seated all the way being the main one.

The Bushmaster
October 7, 2009, 09:37 AM
SEAT them primers...!!!

bluetopper
October 7, 2009, 09:42 AM
My Wolf primers go "bang", the first time every time.

Both small and large pistol varieties.

The Ruskies wouldn't use them if they weren't reliable.

Historian
October 7, 2009, 11:07 AM
I had the same problem with my first batch of Wolf SP primers. Because they are slightly oversized, you must pay very careful attention when seating them. If they do not seat all the way to the bottom of the primer pocket, they will not detonate. Just use a little extra push when you're seating them and that should solve the problem.

Historian

jjohnson
October 7, 2009, 11:30 AM
Yep, I've used about 15,000 of them. That's like 10,000 SP and 5,000 LP.
I've yet to have one of them fail in any way.

Not to say that it's impossible to get a bad batch of primers or one that's been exposed to the elements or whatever. Thing is, though, an awful lot of us have used a fantastic number of Wolf in the past few years and don't have much to say about failures.

I'd look at possible "operator errors" like failure to seat properly as the first likely culprit, followed by the firearm itself, (because that's an easy variable to isolate).

Noveldoc
October 7, 2009, 08:03 PM
I have had no problems with Wolfs in a Smith 45 ACP auto or Ruger 44 Mag Blackhawk.

Wolfs are done on a metric scale and are a trifle oversized by US standards. They will seat deep but need some extra pressure to do so.

I would run that batch through your primer tool again and give them an extra squish.

Tom

FROGO207
October 7, 2009, 08:50 PM
I have used half a gazillon wolf primers and never had a single problem other than dropping them when trying to flip them in the primer tray. If the box was rifle instead of pistol and mislabeled this could be the problem. Also note that they all tend to be harder than the domestic ones. Some pistols have been known to have fits.

Seedtick
October 7, 2009, 10:18 PM
Noveldoc - I would run that batch through your primer tool again and give them an extra squish.
Tom

I'm sure Noveldoc meant to say to give an extra squish to the next batch you run. Because seating a primer deeper on a loaded round is not a safe thing to do. :what:

ST

ljnowell
October 8, 2009, 01:49 AM
I'm sure Noveldoc meant to say to give an extra squish to the next batch you run. Because seating a primer deeper on a loaded round is not a safe thing to do

So is knocking primers out of a primer tube, using federal primers in your autoprime, and decapping live primers. Alas, some people must live by the seat of the pants and who are we to stop them? :D

Noveldoc
October 8, 2009, 05:25 AM
No different than seating primers in empty case. I have seated many thousands of primers with a Lee hand tool and not had one go bang yet.

It takes a hard thump on a primer from a spring propelled hammer or striker let loose on a firing pin narrowed to a small point to concentrate enough force to detonate a primer. According to the Wolff web site, the hammer spring on my S&W pistol rates 20 pounds. The tip of my firing pin surface area is much less than 10%, compared to the rear of the pin. That gives you over 200 PSI at point of impact.

Priming tools are designed to apply a few PSI to the whole face of the primer. It takes a lot more pressure than what I can generate with a hand squish to detonate a primer, especially a hard one like a Wolf. Were this not so, the lawsuits from the hand primer would have bankrupted Lee many years ago.

If somebody wants to knock the bullets and powder out with a bullet puller and then work on the primers, go ahead. I don't see the need.

Tom

Steve C
October 9, 2009, 04:45 AM
As others have said your problem is not seating the primer into the bottom of the pocket. Primes need to be given a firm set when seated to sensitize it peoperly and seated completely. Primer seating is usually done by feel and any depth other than to the bottom of the pocket will give you problems.

If you look at the close up picture of a typical boxer primer you will see how the anvil extends above the forward rim of the primer. When seated to the bottom of the primer pocket and given a proper "set" the anvil pressure will sensitize the primer for proper ignition.

In 35 years of reloading I've only had one bad primer and that was in a piece of factory primed brass. In that case the primer was so thin the flame fizzled out the back side and failed to set the round off.

snuffy
October 10, 2009, 01:51 AM
Priming tools are designed to apply a few PSI to the whole face of the primer. It takes a lot more pressure than what I can generate with a hand squish to detonate a primer, especially a hard one like a Wolf. Were this not so, the lawsuits from the hand primer would have bankrupted Lee many years ago.

EXACTLY! I've said that many times when someone asks how to remove live primers, whether to change type,or one got in upside down. Just use a decapper die or FL die to deprime it like it was fired. Slow and easy does it.

Besides, does anyone know what WOULD happen if a primer were to pop when being seated deeper in a loaded shell? CAUTION, I may cause you to think!:what: Answer, not much. Everybody says without thinking "it would explode in your hand"! No. Modern smokeless powder has to be confined to burn rapidly. The brass case would bulge until the bullet was loose, then it,(the bullet),would pop out with little if any powder burning.

coloradokevin
October 10, 2009, 04:46 AM
I agree with the others who've said to seat your primers deeper. I imagine that your first strike is pushing the primer in a bit, then the next strike is actually igniting the primer.

I was just talking to a guy at an IPSC match a couple of weeks ago who said that some guys were complaining about the newer Wolf primers, but I can't recall exactly what his complaint was (I thought it was more centered around a tight primer pocket fit, or something). Regardless, your problem sounds more like a priming depth issue than anything else!

Noveldoc
October 10, 2009, 06:27 AM
Wolfs are a but oversized, probably a metric thing, They can require extra pressure to seat but work fine if you do this.

Tom

Noveldoc
October 10, 2009, 09:02 AM
Just a thought. Russians have always used a lot of coated steel ammo cases which aren't as "stretchy" as brass. May need a slight bigger primer to lock in those cases.

But Wolff and other Former Soviet ammo firms are doing well. We are buying millions of 7.62 Russian rounds from them because the Soviet made AKs we gave the Afghani army do not like brass ammo.

Tom

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