Suggestions for changing company anti-gun policy.


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EHL
October 8, 2009, 06:51 AM
I work for a restaurant company here in Texas that has been the frequent target of armed robbers. The company has spent plenty of money installing video cameras (in most restaurants) as well as installing "panic buttons" through out the restaurant. However, according to company policy, no one is allowed to bring firearms (licensed or not) on company property. (not even the parking lot locked inside your car)

I know alot of Highroaders have discussed this before and it really boils down to the rights of the employer/land owner to control what comes on their property. If this were only the case, I'd have to shrug my shoulders and live with it. However, their reasoning is not because "they just don't like guns on thier property"; they actually believe that they are protecting us by enforcing this policy. According to their management training/policy manual, most robberies "can be stopped with simply a smile and a nice "hello"".:scrutiny: When I asked their HR representative how many times the robbers actually started killing the employees even after they complied, they told me that they couldn't give an official number but that "it had indeed happened in more than one occasion".

Now I've worked for numerous companies before, each with their policy of "no guns" in the workplace policies. I've always ignored these policies and carried discreetly should the need ever arise, trusting that if I ever did use a firearm to protect my own or others lives, a level headed individual would agree that "it was the right thing to do, given the circumstances". I quickly remembered about the Pizza hut delivery guy who lost his job because he used a firearm to ward off some guys trying to beat him to death. This made me realize that some companies are so anti gun or are so consumed with keeping their insurance rates down, that they would willingly put our lives at risk by disarming us as a condition of employment.

I went through another training and we were discussing cash controls, and they stressed to us the importance of "not being easy targets". I thought it ironic that they would disarm employees who legally carry firearms all in the name of making us safer and to protect us from becoming "easy targets".:rolleyes:

The reason I staunchly believe that this is so blatantly false is because I've seen plenty of studies that show that people are more likely to escape violent encounters/rapes without injury/ or very little injury if they show that they will fight back. (i.e. : not being an easy target) Heck, I've seen plenty of surveillance videos that show 100 lb girls fighting off masked gunmen with nothing more than a coffee mug or harsh words!:what: When I poised the question to the HR representative about a scenario where resistance might be offered(with or without a gun), I was told that whether or not the resistance was justified, the employee would be summarily terminated.

My question is, is there anything a sane level headed person could do to show the higher ups that this reasoning is lunacy? I'd like to speak up more about it, but I'm also fearful of being branded a quack and a possible risk. (Ex: people avoiding me since they think I'm obsessed with guns and I could go off any minute.) What do you think a person who has a family to support, but also sees a great deal of misinformation being spouted out about keeping employees safe, might be able to do? If anything at all....

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sfc_mark
October 8, 2009, 10:31 AM
Unfortunately, your employer is probably looking at this strictly from a liability standpoint. They are likely to be held financially liable for any action you take, in spades.

I doubt there's anything you could do to convince their accountants of your side of the argument.

Since Texas is a right-to-work state, they would be pretty well supported with that summary termination as well.

Since I work on a military installation, I cannot carry at work (or in the car) either, but it's probably a safer workplace than your typical restaurant - I can't remember the last time the Army was robbed (at gunpoint rather than by a shady business).

Norinco982lover
October 8, 2009, 12:22 PM
The Army may not get robbed but they very well might be a target for terrorist activity. Remember that story of that kid earlier this year that shot up a national guard office?

It is usually VERY difficult to change a company's anti-gun policies. If you want your job I would not mess with it. If you do no want your job than go for it. I would just try to be respectful and if you lose than you lose.

~Norinco

Kevin77
October 10, 2009, 01:04 PM
So, do you carry at work? You don't have to answer that but I hope the answer is yes. Your life is much more important than any job. I wouldn't draw attention to myself trying to change anything just do what you're going to do and be discreet about it.

jay gatz
October 10, 2009, 01:15 PM
My answer would be to carry concealed at work(assuming you legally can carry concealed) and just know that if the day ever comes that you have to use it at work you will probably be fired. I don't know about you but I value my life above keeping my job and would willingly make that choice. Questioning company policy too much is likely to get you first on the list when they need to start cutting employees, and may very well block potential promotions too. And remember concealed means concealed.

JellyJar
October 10, 2009, 11:10 PM
The only real solution I can offer would be a long term one.

First, as you live in Texas make sure you belong to the Texas State Rifle Association. I lived in Texas for 26 years and am a life member. The TSRA is one of the best state level RKBA organizations in the country. They have lots of clout in Austin and have been very successful in getting pro RKBA legislation passed.

See if you can start a movement to get legislation passed that would exempt any and all employers from any civil liabilities from actions involving a legally possessed handgun by any employee who has a CHL.

See if you can start a movement to require certain employers whose employees work at high risk jobs like restaurants and retail stores and have CHLs to be able to carry on the job.

Perhaps for the above two things the employee could also be required to carry liability insurance.

Until then do what you have to do to stay alive. :)

I miss Texas

Extremely Pro Gun
October 11, 2009, 12:49 AM
Actually since you live in Texas that gun of yours is 100% completely allowed in your vehicle at work. The employer has no right to deny that.

The Lone Haranguer
October 11, 2009, 11:49 PM
removed

drjoker
October 12, 2009, 03:49 AM
Organize a customers' protest. Tell us what restaurant it is and we'll write an avalanche of boycott letters and organize an "empty holster" protest. We'll write chain letters and pyramid emails to get the word out. I've protested Denny's for racial profiling before. I'll be more than happy to protest your restaurant for making it unsafe for their employees. Just let us know what restaurant and we'll all pitch in to help....!

They got national bad publicity and guess what? They no longer practice racial profiling. Last time I was forced to go to Denny's by my girl, there were plenty of brothas dining there (***?! Don't they know any better? Maybe their SOs forced them to go, too.).

theQman23
February 9, 2010, 12:50 AM
As an employer in a leftist commie state, (maryland) I told all of my guys that they are welcomed to carry guns in my workplace. I also told them that I would never put it in writing that they had that permission. I told them that they can carry there, with or without a permit, (realizing that none of them can probably get a permit here, MD is may issue = non issue) and told them if they were ever questioned by the police for someone seeing their firearm accidentally, or noticing a long gun behind the counter, I would back them up and tell the police, and/or judge that, "yes they had my permission to have a firearm on site during work" but I also told them all, that if they ever shot anyone, and if I was going to be sued for it, that they were on their own. And that I could not accept the liablity that comes with that, and I told them IN ADVANCE that if an altercation ever occurred my position would be to say, "Yes, I carry on site, and personally I'm glad that my employee was cautious enough to do so as well, but no, I did not give written permission for them to do that on the clock."
I know that makes me sound horrible, like a two face, but I told the boys all up front how it would be if they go questioned without any shootings, and I also told them up front how it would play out with me if they ever had to shoot someone. Each man was allowed to make his own decision on whether or not to carry at work after understanding UP FRONT what my position would be.
Before you criticize my spinelessness consider this, we on this forum are all pro-gun, and pro right to carry. But are you so pro gun that you would gladly put your own home, and all of your life savings, and your business up, in front of the plaintiff's lawyer when you, not your employee, becomes the target of lawsuit?
A perp could walk in my shop, shoot at my boys, my boys could defend themselves and save their own lives, and then I would have a minimum of ten grand in legal defense expenses, even if we won. And if we lost, there goes my business. What would you risk, to extend your right to others?
Sincerely,
-Quentin

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