[chaim]

I've decided that I need to finally get a big bore and an N frame. I don't like .44mag, I want something (right now anyway) more than .44spl, S&Ws in .45LC simply cost too much (right now on the online gun auctions the prices were in the $600+ range) and I want a S&W and not a Taurus this time (I will get a Taurus .45LC or .41mag in the future, though I haven't seen many locally lately and MD laws make buying a new gun online difficult).

Anyway, I just bid on a S&W 57 with a 6" barrel that seems to be in good condition (from what you can tell from pictures). The seller rated it at 98% with a mint bore. It has its wood presentation case and all accessories. The seller claims it was made in 1963. The seller seems trustworthy (487 positive feedback, 2 negative and no negative in the past 120 days or possibly more) and the feedback shows that previous customers considered their guns to be equal to the description.

Currently the auction is at $495. In case someone decides to bid against me I'm not posting my max bid (please don't go from here looking for it- if you wouldn't have seen it/looked for this gun if not for this post and you see newsksshooter as the high bid please don't bid).

I'd like something a bit more powerful than my .357mags for those times when a bit more would be nice. I don't find .44mag to be pleasant (though I guess now that I reload I could probably find a load that is stronger than .357mag yet more comfortable than the factory loads). I do reload now. Essentially, it just seemed that something like this would be perfect and this particular one seems pretty nice. The only drawback is that if it is in the condition it seems to be (the bluing and grips look very nice in the pic) I might have trouble bringing myself to put it into a holster and take it with me when camping in black bear territory (my reason, well excuse, for buying a .41mag). Oh well, maybe if I like it then I'll have a perfect excuse to look for a more beat up 57, the slightly less nice 58, or a stainless 657 :evil: .

There is one day and 19 hours left so I'll know in about 2 days if I got it. Wish me luck.

[V-fib]

May the force be with you!
:cool:

[M58]

Luck!
Best regards.:D

[BluesBear]

Fingers crossed over here for you.

Once you get your first .41 you'll never be the same. :D


Nice looking revolver by the way. That is one of the very first ones.

[Kevinch]

Chaim, good luck. I do enjoy my 4" M-57. There is something about those old N-frames.....!!

[chaim]

Thanks for the well wishes so far.

In case I do win I have some ammo questions. I will primarily reload for this gun but I might occasionally want to use factory ammo (when lazy and for comparison). Also, I find it much more enjoyable to get brass by shooting up some factory ammo and using that brass than simply buying unused brass. Anyway, can anyone suggest three loadings that are good- one stout, one mild, one in between?

[Mike Irwin]

Remington's 210-gr. JSP is a VERY stout load, something in the range of 700 ft. lbs of energy. When I shoot it at the range it makes people sit up and take notice.

Unfortunately, it's also very expensive, as is all .41 Mag. ammo. I was able to find several boxes of the Remington ammo at a paltry $25 a box of 50.


As for reloaded ammo, I developed a really nice medium power round the other week for the Pennsylvania shoot.

This is the message from the handloading forum...

"Tried a new load over the weekend.

8.2 (eight point two) grains of WW 231

Winchester Large Pistol Primer

215-gr. hardcast LSWC bullet by Valiant

mixed Remington and Federal cases.

I loaded these using my Lee turret with the adjustable charge bar, with which I've not been too impressed in the past.

But, it was actually fairly consistent, and shooting across the chronograph bore that out.

IIRC the average was about 1070 fps., with not much spread, for about 547 ft. lbs of energy, but recoil was very mild.

The nice thing was that out of my 4" Model 58 they shot almost to point of aim at about 15 meters (I think that was about the distance).

I had been pushing the 215s at about 950 fps. for bowling pins, and while they were a GREAT pin load, they were dropping well below point of aim, probably a good 6", at 15 meters."




A mild load is the one I was referencing, which was about 7.7 (seven point seven) grains of W231.

[MaterDei]

Hey, thanks for turning me on to this auction, newsksshoo... err, chaim. I've been looking for a nice 57. I just outbid you.

Just Kidding! :neener:

[FPrice]

Good luck to you.

I do not yet have a .41 in my handgun battery, guess I should look for my own somewhere.

Let us know how it turns out please.

[Mike Irwin]

"I am not knocking the 41, but I don't "get" saying you dislike the 44 and prefer the 41. How is it better?"

I'm largely the same -- don't give a damn about the .44 Mag., but just love the .41 since I've started working with it.

Why?

Beats me.

Maybe I just love the relatively unloved.

[JShirley]

The 57 is nice. I have a 3" 657, and Byron has two 4" 57's...when he can pry them out of my hands. :)

I would say you're getting out of the range I'd be prepared to pay for a 57. I'd hafta be hemorrhaging money to pay over $500 for one.

[M58]

Factory:
Remington full loads 210 grs. are pretty stout.
Federal has a strong 250 gr. castcore.
ProLoad has a strong load using XTPs.

Mild is Silvertips.



Weak are my cowboy loads.
Powderpuff stuff.
How else can I score well with two Blackhawks and a Marlin lever in .41????:D

[JShirley]

Oh- GA Arms offers good .41 fodder. http://www.georgia-arms.com/

[kentucky bucky]

You are about to embark on an epic journey of fortyonedom, may the auction gods of fortune rain 57's knee deep upon you my son.

[chaim]

I am not sure I understand the "hate 44 but want 41" rationale. I've actually never had the chance to shoot a .41mag (I haven't seen a rental around here). From what I'm told on forums, some are like you and say there is no real recoil difference, others say they certainly notice a difference. In reality I don't know for sure that all .44mag ammo is too much for me, I've only shot a rental where I had to use the ammo the store had on hand (I had no way to control for stoutness). Also, since I now reload for revolver I could easily enough use a load with more than .357mag strength yet is relatively low on recoil (maybe cut the difference between typical .44spl and .44mag loadings). I guess a big part of it is that recoil is an excuse. I just want something a little different and it seems that most big bore shooters have at least one .44mag (my next big bore will probably be a .45lc). Actually, I have been thinking that if this and a couple other .41's I have on my watch list go over my limit that I might just go for a .44 instead (they are a little cheaper) so with reloading and other factory loads being available I'm certainly not completely against the idea of a .44mag.

[chaim]

Hey, thanks for turning me on to this auction, newsksshoo... err, chaim. I've been looking for a nice 57. I just outbid you. Grrr, stay back:evil:

Actually, if you are interested in a .41mag there was a similar condition 57 with most accessories and presentation box, a really nice 57 but with no box or accessories, and a comparatively beat up 58 (still, the finish and condition seems decent, just in comparison to the 57s currently availble) for a lot less. These were just on Gunbroker, I didn't check Auction Arms (probably should have, but I doubt if I'd see any better condition guns for much less money, right now they all seem to be priced in the same range- for the past few weeks I haven't seen that many guns generally, let alone incredible deals, on the auction sites).

Oh, I'm down to about 12 hours and no one has bid since my last bid. I'm getting excited now.

[MaterDei]

Actually, if you are interested in a .41mag there was a similar condition 57 with most accessories and presentation box, a really nice 57 but with no box or accessories, and a comparatively beat up 58 (still, the finish and condition seems decent, just in comparison to the 57s currently availble) for a lot less.
Thanks but I'm really only interested in the one you've bid on. I'll wait until a few seconds before the end of the auction, then pounce!

Just kidding. If you do get outbid, trust me, It won't be me. Other than a Colt lawman's series Wyatt Earp 12" .22 that I got in a trade for an old computer, I'm a semi-auto guy only.

That Colt is sure a lot of fun to shoot though. My boys like shooting it too, even though it's a bit too unbalanced in the barrel for them to hold long.

[chaim]

Other than a Colt lawman's series Wyatt Earp 12" .22 that I got in a trade for an old computer, I'm a semi-auto guy only.

That Colt is sure a lot of fun to shoot though. My boys like shooting it too, even though it's a bit too unbalanced in the barrel for them to hold long.

Oh no! You have to fix that. No revolvers (mostly)?! You can't let that state of affairs stand. You don't know what you are missing. You just have to get yourself a medium frame .357mag and next thing you know you too will be debating Colt v. S&W, what should be your next .357, 158gr v. 125, etc.


:evil:

[MaterDei]

With 6 kids and the accompanying 24 years of college tuition in my future, I have to limit my gun purchasing somewhat. I do like shooting revolvers though. My cousin has several including a Taurus .357 and a Smithy .44 (sorry, don't know the model nos.). I really like firing them.

I limit myself to what I can get cheap and what I use for SD/HD. My SD/HD weapon is a Kimber Stainless in .45 ACP (not real cheap but for SD/HD cheap is a mistake I try to avoid).

MaterDei

p.s. - good luck

[chaim]

Ah, all the more reason to go with revolvers. It is hard to find a decent auto for under $300, while one can get a good used .38 for around $200 if you look and a nice .357 for $250-350. You can't afford to not get a revolver:evil: OK, enough playing with you that you should get a wheelgun. Heck, everyone that doesn't want them means more out there for me. :D

Hmm, 6 kids, you need to get to work man. Only six!?:neener:

Seriously, you wouldn't happen to be an Orthodox Jew would you. Most of us have very large families, but these days I don't know many others who have that many kids very often. For us (Orthodox Jews) the average family (in my area) seems to be 4-6 kids. I actually know one family where there are 10 kids, and the oldest is 11 or 12!!!:what: I am 33, still in school (so I'm not making that much money) and I'm still single. When I finally get married, as an Orthodox Jew the expectation will be to have a large family (whose expectations- my friends and acquintances in the Jewish community, whoever I marry, and my own). Starting late as I am that does scare me (college, feeding them, private religious schooling, and still trying to save for a house and retirement) so being serious for a moment I can understand you wanting to seriously limit the gun budget (when I eventually marry I doubt if I'll be able to buy more than one every year or more likely every other year).

[MaterDei]

Heh! That's a first. Here in Houston, where the Orthodox Jew population is quite small, when people hear that I have 6 kids, they assume I'm either Mormon or Catholic. I've never been asked if I was an Orthodox Jew before, of course that might be because I don't wear a skull cap, etc. However, based on your description of the community you are a part of, other than the religious differences, my family would probably fit right in with your community.

I'm a Roman Catholic and I would consider myself orthodox (at least I try to be :) ). Note that my 'o' in orthodox is in lower case. If you knew any Latin you might have already have guessed that I was Catholic. My screen name is an indication of my devotion to Mary (a fine Jewish woman IMO). Mater Dei means 'Mother of God'. I hope this doesn't offend you, but in a sense I consider myself a Neo Orthodox Jew. Catholic and Jewish traditions still retain a striking number of similarities.

Big families are the norm in my circle of friends as well. Last weekend my family went to a picnic with 4 other families that we spend a lot of time together with. There were a total of 27 kids present, my 16 year old being the oldest.

The largest family I know personally has 14 kids, but they were spread out better than your friends' kids are. There is also a set of twins and a set of triplets in the mix. 10 kids all under 12? God bless them.

9 hours 30 minutes left on our, err, your auction.

:D

[Mike Irwin]

"Mike- Have you actually owned a 44 Mag? I think if you had one and worked with it a bit you might not dismiss it so readily. Anyone who likes a 41 should like a 44 as well or better."


Owned one? No. No need to, just as there's no need for me to own a Sig 239 to know that I don't have any affinity for it.

That said, though, I've got several thousand rounds down range with .44s of all types -- S&Ws, Colts, Rugers, etc., as I've quite a few friends who do own .44s.

I've reloaded for it quite a bit, too, when I was loading a friend's ammo for him.

I've yet to find anything truly special about the .44 Mag., other than it tosses a bullet.


That said, however, I'm considering purchasing a coworker's nickled S&W .44 Mag. We're working on price. Should be good trade bait, given how a lot of people at gunshows start hooting like monkeys and beating their chests when someone offers up a .44 Mag. :D

[chaim]

If you knew any Latin you might have already have guessed that I was Catholic. My screen name is an indication of my devotion to Mary (a fine Jewish woman IMO). Mater Dei means 'Mother of God'. Ahh, it has been a long time since my high school Latin class. I only took half a year and I barely paid attention (though I did get a B) so I don't remember much.Catholic and Jewish traditions still retain a striking number of similarities. I've said a few times that I think the Christian religion that is closest to Orthodox Judaism (especially Chassidic/Hassidic Judaism) is the Catholic Church. Maybe it is the ritual, maybe it is the increased mysticism, large families, I'm not sure, but it seems we are closer cousins than say us (Orthodox Jews) and the Baptists (no offense to any Baptists out there).

[MaterDei]

Mater- I lived in Utah for four years so trust me, six kids ain't nearly enough to pass for Mormon. I'd say the average is more like 12 or 14. That, and the fact that I have but one wife!

I'm starting to wonder if picking my screen name was wise. While I've been called much worse, I don't know how I feel about being called 'Mother'. :confused:

[BigG]

I am not knocking the 41, but I don't "get" saying you dislike the 44 and prefer the 41. How is it better?

Chuckle. That's what makes a horse race. Different strokes for diffrent folkes.

Compared to .44 Magnum: Slightly less recoil, slightly less performance, way more expensive factory loads. What's not to like about .41??? ;)

[MaterDei]

I'm not sure how often you buy things at online auctions. I've got a couple of pointers if you're new to the game.

1. When/If you are outbid, don't counter until just before the end of the auction.
2. Whatever you do, if you are still willing to pay more than the current bid, be there at the very end of the auction. If you are currently not the high bidder, wait until the last possible moment and then place your bid. If you ARE the high bidder currently, don't assume somebody won't be waiting until the end.

MaterDei

[Mike Irwin]

"Compared to .44 Magnum: Slightly less recoil, slightly less performance, way more expensive factory loads. What's not to like about .41???"


You know... Good point!

I mean, what's there to like about the .44 Mag. when there's the .454 and the .480 out there?

After all, the .44 has slightly less recoil and substantially less performance... Factory ammo is creeping down in price, though...

If you like the .44, that's great. I'm VERY happy that you have such... pedestrian, common man tastes. After all, I believe it was Carl Sandburg who said that the man with a .44 was the silt of the earth, or something like that... :neener:

[chaim]

I'm not sure how often you buy things at online auctions. Oh, I have a little experience at these things :D

Several guns, 4 or 5 desktop computers (I experimented with learning computer networking and setting up a home network for a time), a lot of computer stuff (memory, hard-drive, modem, operating systems), a laptop computer, grips for my Taurus 85, some books, and some selling as well.

Actually, I don't look at it for the last few hours anymore. It is safer to pick your max and stick with it. Sure someone may outbid you by a few dollars at the last moment, but if it isn't a one of a kind (or nearly so) type item, who cares? Hanging out there at the last minute and actively re-bidding can lead to emotional, "I must not lose", bids that push the price up higher than you should pay. If I lose it I'll pick another 57 (one of the other two nice ones, one with presentation box and some of its accessories), pick a 58, order a Taurus Tracker or go for a .44mag or .45LC. If either the price or the gun was a once in a lifetime situation then I'd stay there the last 5 minutes or so, but the gun isn't that uncommon and the price isn't that incredible. Still, I do hope to win (it is just that I will see more nice 57s in the future).

[chaim]

Woo hoo!!! I won!:D

$495, looks to be in pretty good shape. Sure, I know it isn't the best price on one of these, but it is a pretty good price (probably be just OK after transfer fees and shipping, but still a decent price anyway).

I really can't wait. I don't remember how long it has been since I last looked forward to picking up a new gun this much.

Tonight or tomorrow I'll have to order (online or Natchez) some .41mag ammo (for comparison and for the brass), possibly some additional new brass, some bullets and some new powder (I don't think the Universal Clays I have is really well suited for loading .41mag). Man, I can't wait.

The worst thing about buying online is the wait to get the gun to the dealer, and then being in MD I still have to wait through the 7 day "cooling off period" :rolleyes: :banghead:

Oh, I almost forgot...Here is the link to the completed auction:
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=13144928

[BluesBear]

It's always nice having a new family member arrive.
:)

[MaterDei]

Congrats.

[caz223]

I guess now you kow why they call it gun broker.....
You get a gun.....and you get broker.....
Anyway, glad to see you get a .41, everybody should have one. (Or 12)

[Old Fuff]

About the cost .....

You have won (or bought, as the case may be) a classic. Could you have found one for less? Maybe, but it doesn't matter. They don't make guns today like they made this one, because frankly, if they did it would be so expensive few would buy it. The model 57 that you will have shortly has a collector's value as well as being a shooter. If you take care of it the value will go up, not down and in time - perhaps not too far down the road - will be worth more then you paid.

Top quality firearms are almost always a good investment. Look at what some are going for today vs. what they sold for 5 - 10 -15 or 20 years ago.

I think you did a lot more then simply win an auction.

[Nightcrawler]

Anyone who likes a 41 should like a 44 as well or better.

There is some irony in trying to figure out what people "should" like. I, too, have grown very fond of the .41 Mag; I like it 'cause it's just different enough to appeal to me. Yes, factory ammo can be painfully expensive, but oh well. Buy Georgia Arms and reload.

It's like saying anyone who likes a quarter pound cheeseburger should like a half pounder with extra cheese better.

You know what the biggest thing I like about the .41 Mag is, though? When I talk about it at the gunstore, some people are like ".41 mag? never heard of it". Others say things like "you should sell that and get yourself a .44; it's just better".

(A few grin knowingly and shoot me a thumbs up.)

I just smile. Haven't yet found a .44 Mag that appeals to me enough to buy; I have a 6" blued N-frame in .41, and a very similar one in .45 Colt. Wouldn't buy such a gun in .44 Magnum, though.

PS: LOVE my model 57! Long live the misunderstood, underappreciated .41 Magnum!

PPS: One thing .41 has over the .44? You won't find .44 Magnum in a 5-shot L-frame sized snubby. Thank you, Taurus. :D

[Mike Irwin]

Oh NO, Nightcrawler!

You simply aren't mature enough to know what you MUST like...

As I've said many times to people who tell me what I SHOULD like, and question my reasoning for not being in lockstep with what THEY like...


"This is my life. If you don't like it, stay the :cuss: out of it."

[Nightcrawler]

You simply aren't mature enough to know what you MUST like...

So I've been told.... :p

[JShirley]

Chaim,

Congratulations.

MaterDei: I just thought you were head waiter! :)

Nightcrawler, my sentiments exactly. Except I prefer shorter bls than you, I think.

[Nightcrawler]

Nightcrawler, my sentiments exactly. Except I prefer shorter bls than you, I think.

Well, it's only by luck I found the two I have. I'd prefer a 4" 57; the six incher is kind of heavy.

[JShirley]

Yeah, the 4" is about perfect. My 657 is 3"- because I wanted a concealable boomer when I was planning on moving to Alaska- but a 4" .41 or .45 Colt is definitely in my future. Maybe both.

John

[Standing Wolf]

That's mighty pretty!

I looked at a blued six-inch model 57-3 Friday afternoon with a $650 price tag. It didn't have a pinned barrel, and the cylinder wasn't recessed. I'd have been willing to pay as much as $550 for it, but when I started to try to haggle, the individual behind the counter said he might me able to go as low as $625.

I was born at night, but not last night.