[Ghengisconrad]

I want it for hunting... like ducks and stuff. I already have a sawed off mossburg 500a. So this time I want something semi-auto, but with a barrel long enough to do some duck huntings... and maybe the ability to add high capacity magazines?

I was thinking of course saiga12, but you know... the barrel is much shorter than a hunting shotgun, and i wouldn't feel comfortable going duck hunting... also, i already own a saiga 308 i use for deer hunting....

Suggestions please.

[RSVP2RIP]

Remington 11/87. It's what I use for ducks, because if it fell in the water I wouldn't wet myself. It can take magazine extensions and parts are readily availible.

[Ghengisconrad]

i really wanted something i can put a magazine into.... I don't see stuff for mags, but i'll search harder

[Ghengisconrad]

Yeah, all i see is extension tubes... i kinda wanted something i can feed high capacity clips into for fun... how hard is it to make the barrel longer on say a saiga 12?

[ArmedBear]

If you get caught with more than 3-round capacity including the chamber when duck-hunting, you may not have the gun any more.

That's an international agreement for all of North America, not just a local law.

Also, you'll want to be able to wingshoot, so a conventional shotgun with good handling is what you want, not a mag-fed gun. Semiauto? Consider Mossberg 930, Beretta 391 series or "Wal-Mart 390" which is about the best value out there.

[throdgrain]

An international agreement for all of America?? :confused:

[chevyforlife21]

you cant use a tactical gun for duck hunting its illegal and probably wouldnt work that good.

[ArmedBear]

An international agreement for all of America??

North America. All the countries on the North American continent signed a treaty on migratory waterfowl regulations, and enforce these regulations.

That's as opposed to state or local hunting regulations.

In Idaho, for upland birds, I can use a shotgun with whatever capacity it has. 2 shots or 10, whatever. In the neighboring state of Oregon (about 30 minutes' drive from me) I have to limit the gun capacity to 3 total, for upland birds. So local hunting regulations can vary, for some types of birds.

For waterfowl, however, it's 3 total in Canada, the US, and Mexico, and enforced by Federal law.

[Hawk]

An international agreement for all of America??

I could be wrong but I believe it dates from the Migratory Bird Treaty and included Great Britain (for Canada) the U.S. and, later on, Mexico.

All of North America.

Edited to add: AB types faster than I do.

[hub]

Suggestions please.

You never said how much you wanted to spend. I would be looking at these.

Remington 1187 magnum waterfoul. MSRP $959 $772 for sportsman 12 with black synthetic stock.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_11-87/model_11-87_sportsman_super_mag_waterfowl.asp
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_11-87/model_11-87_sportsman.asp

Mossberg 935 magnum waterfoul MSRP $732. $613 for black synthetic
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/NEW/81022.jpg
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/81001.jpg

Mossberg 930 waterfoul MSRP $653. $545 for black synthetic
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/NEW/85211.jpg
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/85128.jpg

Beretta 390a1 msrp $875
https://www.berettausa.com/e2wProductGroupDetailDropDown.aspx?parentid=4100001546&parentLink=2100000084:3100000484:3100001359:3100001497:4100001546

Beretta 391 MSRP $1075. $975 for black synthetic
https://www.berettausa.com/e2wShoppingCatalog.aspx?parentID=3100001496&parentLink=2100000084:3100000484:3100001359:3100001496

Browning Silver duck blind MSRP $1329
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/imagepreview.asp?cat_id=011&type_id=366

Browning Silver Stalker MSRP $1179
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/imagepreview.asp?cat_id=011&type_id=351

[hub]

Yeah, all i see is extension tubes... i kinda wanted something i can feed high capacity clips into for fun... how hard is it to make the barrel longer on say a saiga 12?

You don't want a semi-automatic magazine fed shotgun for any kind of bird hunting trust me. Maybe OK for HD use but to me that's about it. It's not just about having a longer barrel. It's about the shotguns balance. The ability have the control to get and stay on target all the way through your swing smoothly that counts. You also need the ability to use chokes and the longer sight radius and point ability of a vent rib barrel never hurts accuracy either.

[Ghengisconrad]

so... which one is best? I hunt for deer with a spistol grip and foregripe on a scope. I'm thinking of throwing a redot and pistol grip and foregrip on the shotgun... whichever i gett.

okay, lets try this again. What good hunting shotguns have high cap magazines?

Why don't i want magazine fed? I want something fun that CAN be practical. I'm no world-class shooter, just a collector that likes having legitimate reasons for collecting other than that i like to collect.

yeah, i'm look at around 7 or 800 dollars

[Steve C]

Since hunting game laws only allows only 3 shells (1 chambered and 2 in the magazine) in the gun its pointless and non productive to put extended magazines on a bird gun. Any magazine used when hunting must be limited to 2 rounds esp. for migratory game. Of course this assumes that you don't want to risk having a game officer sieze your gun and slap you with a stiff fine. Use the appropriate tool for the job rather than trying to use one tool to do all jobs.

[Ghengisconrad]

hmmm... well spoken sir... well spoken....

but i really love my dremel

[Dentite]

I don't think you are going to get the answers you want to hear. Some good advice has been given, try and digest it with an open mind. Good luck.

[Ghengisconrad]

no, you guys are right. Maybe i'll buy a saiga 12 for fun, and a good hunting rifle for hunting...

[chevyforlife21]

basically you need a deer rifle,game shotgun,saiga 12

[Kindrox]

Could he get a 2 shot magazine for hunting? Or block a 5-shot mag?

[chevyforlife21]

yea you can block a 5 shot most pumps and autos come with a magazine plug that restricts to maximum of 2 shells in the tube.

[R_Thornhill]

Rem 1187 or 870. Have both and love both. I personally think when looking for a bird hunting shotgun a mag is unnecessary. If you want a shotgun with mag possibilities look for a tactical. But keep the two separate. Ruger Red Label is your rolling in the dough...:D

[post_apocalyptic]

You can buy a Saiga-12 with a 22" or 24" barrel. The most popular 19" models are not the only ones out there.

Yes, Surefire makes 2-round mags for Saiga-12's specifically for hunting.

[Ghengisconrad]

is 24" enough? should i buy two, or just one. Will i have a decent hunting rifle with a saiga 12 24"?

[post_apocalyptic]

I think a 24" barrel is more than long enough for duck hunting.

ymmv.

[post_apocalyptic]

Yes, it's more than long enough, and you can buy a Polychoke to use with it to further tighten your patterns. Some people hunt with 19" S-12's.

[RSVP2RIP]

Hunting with a magazine means you'll be taking it out and putting it in ALOT! That sounds like a ton of work to me. There is also the Valtro PM5 but it is a pump gun.

[bigalexe]

To the OP:

Sorry but you've got 3 rounds in your shotgun, no way around it anywhere. High-Capacity magazine in a shotgun will get the gun taken away as soon as that Conservation Officer sees it and they DO check.

As far as a good waterfowl gun I'd recommend a reputable semi-auto with a 26" Barrel, unless you are a smaller or weaker person such as myself then you may want a 24" but those are becoming hard to find.

I'd recommend a Remington 11-87 as far as semi-autos go, I can't speak to the reliability of Mossberg Semi-Autos and Benelli's are nice if you can afford a Ferrari to go with it. If it were me then I would just buy a 26" Barrel for your Mossberg and hunt with that because that's what I hunt with already, no reason to buy another gun.

[Hawk]

Sounds to me like the OP wants a Saiga 12 and the rationalization that it will come in handy for hunting waterfowl.

Simply drop the rationalization part and all should be well. Buy the Saiga, be happy, and borrow somebody else's waterfowling piece when the time comes.

The best a Saiga can aspire to in a waterfowling context would be the term "sub-optimal".

But, if one insists on buying a duck gun, my suggestion would be the Browning Maxus "Mossy Oak Duck Blind". Not because I have any experience with it - quite the contrary, I know no one that has one but where's the fun of spending other people's money if you can't ask them to be the first on their block with something new and report back to us with a full review?

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=024B&cat_id=011&type_id=601

[Ghengisconrad]

I have no friends, and no money. I can't afford two guns in the next year, but want to go hunting with my equally poor and friendless cousin in the next duck hunting season.

I think I'll purchase the Saiga 12 with a 24" and put a poly choke and buy some 3 round clips for appliance. and be happy.

[Hawk]

Two (2) round magazines. The one in the chamber counts for the third.

Two round magazines and be happy - sounds like a plan.
:D

[Ghengisconrad]

lol. I think i smell a Saiga fan...

I've never met an AK I didn't like!

Thanks for your help guys!

I like to think I have guns for all ranges

so

Scoped Saiga308 200-75 yrds

Red Dot Saiga 12 gauge with "poly choke" 75-50 yrds?

Red Dot AK47 ~50 yards to 20 yards

Mossburg 500A 20 yards to up close

Glock .40 tight spot

Bersa .380 I'm going to die

Big Knife-filled Bat Its over

and as you may not be aware, my innards are filled with C4, so...

Will the Saiga 12 be a good addition to the family?

[hub]

already have a mossberg 500a sawed off . . . . . I can't hunt with that. I want a rifle i can hunt with, and also would like a semi-auto instead of a pump this time.

I thought we was talking shotguns here.

I think a 24" barrel is more than long enough for duck hunting.
Like I said earlier barrel length has nothing to do with it.

so... which one is best? I hunt for deer with a spistol grip and foregripe on a scope. I'm thinking of throwing a redot and pistol grip and foregrip on the shotgun... whichever i gett.
Do what? I really don't understand what you are trying to say. You mean something like this with a red dot for DEER HUNTING? Again do what?
http://www.amazon.com/ATI-Shotgun-Forend-Pistol-Grip/dp/B000OFML3U



You want a semi auto shotgun that can take high cap magazines for fun right? Get a Saiga.

You want a Saiga 12 obviously even though it's pretty much useless except for fun, home defence, and maybe deer hunting. I'm not bashing here that is perfectly acceptable as long as you realize that's what it does.

You will dissapointed if you use it for anything else.
If that's what you want by all means go right ahead and get a Saiga.

You can't afford two shotguns this year. Understandable get a Saiga that what you want.

You would like to go hunting and you would like to use your new shotgun. Get a legal capacity magazine and take your new Saiga deer hunting.

OK so you still don't have a gun for waterfowling. What to do? No friends to borrow from.

OK I've got another idea that would be a lot cheaper than buying a new shotgun. You said you have a tacticool 500a. Does it have to stay tacticool all the time? What size magazine tube does it have?

If it still has the standard tube all you need is to find a good used vent rib barrel from Mossberg or Maverick for cheap some choke tubes or maybe just one and bingo you have got a good waterfowl gun for cheap.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=142659328

If you've got a high cap tube you can get a standard 28in vent rib barrel, standard tube, spring and follower pretty cheap from Mossberg or maybe both really cheap used from someone who just tacticooled one up and with a short barrel and high cap tube.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=142616995
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=142529797
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=142366737

[Ghengisconrad]

Ok, so like seriously, I AM retarded with guns... I thought a redot would be nicer than ironsights for shotguning...

Would a Saiga 12 really be so worthless for Waterfouling? I'm not a big hunter really. What would the accurate waterfouling range be for a saiga 12 24 inch with a good polychoke?

[hub]

I agree the Saiga 12 is a really cool combat shotgun. Is is not a cool or practical hunting shotgun. The Mossberg 500a is a very versatile shotgun that is up to multiple tasks with the proper standard equipment. A standard 28in vent rib barrel with screw in chokes will be fine for any type of hunting you will want to do. Get the Saiga because apparently you know that's what you want and find a cheap barrel for the 500.

Like I said before if you have an extended tube magazine standard barrels will not fit, you will need a standard magazine tube.

OK, so like seriously, I AM retarded with guns... I thought a redot would be nicer than ironsights for shotguning...

I wouldn't say retarded, inexperienced. Go to the top of the shotgun forum and open the sticky post that says shotgunning 101 Library. Open that then start reading. Don't quit until you have read everything twice.

[RSVP2RIP]

Maybe you would be better served going to the library and reading a book or two on duck hunting before you make any rash decisions.

[post_apocalyptic]

The shortest S-12 you'll find, (from the OEM anyway), is a IZ-109 with a 19" barrel. Custom S-12's with 8", 10", or 12" barrels do exist, but you'd need a sbs tax stamp and a fair amount of patience to get one, (the companies that convert a standard S-12 to that have a waiting list of several months but they do a fantastic job).

Check out Tromix, Red Jacket, Tac 47, Cadiz Gun Works, etc if you're interested in eventually getting one of those. They ain't cheap, but they're the most deadly combat scatter-guns available in the US today, (and probably not for much longer, so I'd buy at least a 19" S-12 soon if you're at all interested).

Let's save ourselves both some time here... you need to check out this forum (http://forum.saiga-12.com/). Saiga freaks like me hang out there, :D (along with most of the gunsmiths and other companies specializing in Saiga weapons).

[rbernie]

That's quite enough snark, please. This is The High Road.

Ghengisconrad - you can gain a lot of insight and information from The High Road but you have to treat it as you would any other information source, namely with respect and a willingness to clearly articulate your needs. Treating it like a free-form chat room will not bring you joy.

[Johnny Guest]

Earlier suggestions that OP do some research on the topic are good advice.

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