[karl.ransom]

I am using a 165gr Sierra Gameking with IMR4350 in my Ruger M77 MKII in
.30-06. I am wondering how many grains of powder have brought the best results for people in the same gun. I don't have alot of time to go out and do alot of trial and error and I am relatively new to reloading.

[The Bushmaster]

Well ya may have to...Even the same manufacture and model don't often shoot the same

Welcome to THR....

[karl.ransom]

A starting point would help though

[SlamFire1]

An often used target load for the 30-06 bolt rifle was a 168 SMK with 55.0 grs IMR 4350, any case any primer. I have used this load with 175 SMK's. This load will produce accurate loads with your 165 hunting bullets, expect velocity to be just around 2700 fps.

[R.W.Dale]

Just be aware that rugers tend to have short throats so your seating depth will need to be adjusted accordingly. I get best results .010" off the lands


A starting point would help though

yeah those are listed in the reloading manual

[loadedround]

Just checked my Nosler #7 Reloading Manual and it shows IMR4350 as the most accurate powder tested in the 165 gr 30-06 load( Nosler bullets). Their most accurate weight in this powder was 57.0 gr and is a MAX LOAD. I would suggest you begin at the recommended starting load of 53.0 gr and work up. Depending upon your particular rifle, this max load may be too hot for your Ruger 77. Don't cause unpleasant things to happen by pushing the maximum load. Hope this information is of help to you. :)

[qajaq59]

I am using a 165gr Sierra Gameking with IMR4350 in my Ruger M77 MKII in
.30-06. I am wondering how many grains of powder have brought the best results for people in the same gun. I don't have alot of time to go out and do alot of trial and error and I am relatively new to reloading. Karl you must have a book, unless you picked the bullet and powder out of the air? But if you're not willing to work up a load then you might as well just take the starter load and go with that. If nothing else it will be safe.

[NCsmitty]

Welcome to THR, karl.ransom.

As others have noted, there is no magic load that works in all 30'06 rifles. If you need data, you can use www.hodgdon.com to check for a starting load. It's not recommended to short cut the work up procedure, but that's up to you.


NCsmitty

[snuffy]

Karl, look at my sig line, there's no free lunch. That means there's no short cut to the most accurate load. You didn't say if this is a hunting load, but anything that shoots under 2" @ 100 yds is adequate for deer sized animals out to 300 yds. Pick a load that's half way between starting charge weight and maximum, go hunting!

Krochus, I my experience Ruger rifles have LONG throats. Bill Ruger hated law suits, so he instructed his barrels be throated long to keep pressures low so they wouldn't blow up. I have 2 rifles, a .280 and a 30-06, both have throats so long I can't touch the rifling origins without going to very heavy, pointed boattails.

[Rokman]

My Ruger 77MKII shoots great with 168 Nosler Btips with IMR an H4350. After working my loads up, it definately shoots best with 56.5 grains IMR4350 and 57.0 grains of H4350. I have used Winchester and Remington brass with both Remington and Winchester large primers. This works best for me in my rifle and I carefully worked up to get to this result! I could easily drop off a grain or two and still have a very accurate hunting load with either of these powders.

[R.W.Dale]

Snuffy my rugers are just the opposite, I can get rifling to bullet contact with even 150 grain bullets not seated particularly long.

in fact my ruger turns out to have a leade almost a full .100" shorter than my Remington in the same chambering. Every ruger I've had experiance with was that way 30/06, 270, 22-250 and even a buddies 264mag.

How many Rugers have you worked with and how old are they?

Measurments using bullet comparator

Ruger 77 bolt face to rifling 3.680"
vintage Remington 725 3.757"

[GooseGestapo]

Regarding IMR4350 and the 165gr bullets; I doubt that you'll find a better "compromise" than 56.5gr of IMR4350 and a seating depth of 3.300". (Slightly longer with the Nosler Ballistic Tips).

This will be a "reasonable" load in any but the most fickle '06 barrel and has been the most accurate load in most of the '06's I've loaded for.


re: Ruger throats; depends on the caliber and the source of the barrels. If anything, the Rugers have had spotty quality control regarding barrels. For a while, Ruger used Wilson barrels. The early ones (early '70's) were exceptionally accurate, but tended to be a tad long throated. Lately, they've been making their own, and tend to be a bit large and loose. Some in the late '80's were attrocious. One .338WinMag I'm familiar with shot 5" groups with anything shot though it and was sent back as "acceptable" by Ruger. It was rebarreled with an E.R.Shaw barrel and shot same ammo sub-moa. It WAS the barrel..........

My main experience with Ruger chambers has been with the .257Roberts. An early #1 had a "mid' lenght throat. Essentially a -3"- Roberts throat. Just what you'd want in a single shot "Roberts".... Essentially a "tight" .25/06 considering the 26"bbl. Gave some thrilling velocities considering the charge weights...
The other is a M77mkII, and has a very short throat. Anything much over SAAMI is into the lands. Not a bad situation, however. Gets excellent velocities with modest powder charges. Favors light bullets and med.-fast powders. A nice change of pace......

My three .22Hornet Rugers have had two large-long chambers and a single average-tight throat.

The "shortest" throated '06 I've ever seen is a Colt Lt Rifle I have that with the above length load and either a Sierra 165 or 180gr bullet is touching the grooves (lightly however) at the 3.300" oal and is jammed at 3.315".
My favorite load (for this rifle) is either 57.0g of IMR4350 and the 165gr or 55.0gr and the 180gr bullets. Either is MOA or better from a 5.75lb rifle. It'll take a little more powder (Hodgdon's max loads) but they aren't as accurate from this rifle.
Good enough for me........

[ants]

:neener:

Several methods exist to get you to your optimum load faster, with fewer wasted bullets. Pick a method and go for it. That's what we did and we arrived at 3 different 'best' loads, one for each of three different rifles. Go figure. There really is no single magic load, is there? You have to match it to your barrel.

[R.W.Dale]

Great info goose. That would explain my assesment differing from the other guys because all my rugers have at oldest been mid 90's vintage m77 mkII all weather models

[Steve C]

I don't have alot of time to go out and do alot of trial and error and I am relatively new to reloading.

With one bullet and powder selection it should take one range trip to find your best load. Let me suggest this, rather than a "trial and error" method of getting a good load why don't you put together 5 rounds at each charge level starting at a 10% reduction from max (start level) and increasing by 2% for each successively higher load. If you load 25 pieces of brass that would give you a full work up to test at the range in one session. Do some work ahead of time to determine the OAL to set the bullet just off the lands, assuming that it isn't too long to fit in your magazine.

Test on paper from low to high and stop if pressures signs appear and salvage components from any of heavier loads that you don't shoot. Pick your load that's the most accurate and use it for laoding those components. Keep good records and pay attention to detail when loading.

[karl.ransom]

What type of signs do you get for too much pressure? My magazine and chamber are smaller than what Sierra says is my maximum bullet length 3.340. I can chamber bullets at 3.320 but I can't close my bolt with a round that is 3.333. I have calipers but nothing to measure OAL. I really appreciate the input. I am using the 100 pg 30-06 specific bound book that you can buy for ten dollars.

[rfwobbly]

Karl -
You can test the max length of your bullet in your gun for yourself. Get a case that was fired in your gun and remove the spent primer. Trim the case so that the neck length isn't the issue. If you offer a new bullet to this fired case it should be a tight, slip fit. Assemble with a COL out at ~3.37.... something longer than prescribed.

Now place the test cartridge in the chamber and slowly move the bolt forward and into battery. The test cartridge will go into the chamber and the rifling will push the bullet back into the case. Now remove the cartridge slowly and measure the length with a caliper. That is the exact MAX length of that brand/weight bullet in YOUR gun. Maybe do this 2 or 3 times to make sure you got the number correct. To get the max COL, then subtract .015 to .020 inches. That will be your "rifling setback" plus account for a small variations due to your press and dies.

Check to make sure your derived COL will fit in your magazine and is shorter than the SAAMI length.

Hope this helps!

[ants]

But do this for each type of bullet you use. Bullet profiles vary greatly by manufacturer and/or bullet weight, so the max OAL differs for each one. Your GameKing is an excellent bullet to start with, just be careful switching to a different bullet later.

[R.W.Dale]

A great addition to the above methiod is a bullet comparator

Then you know the case head to rifling for ALL bullets without having to measure each individual bullet type

[rfwobbly]

But do this for each type of bullet you use. Bullet profiles vary greatly by manufacturer and/or bullet weight, so the max OAL differs for each one. Your GameKing is an excellent bullet to start with, just be careful switching to a different bullet later.

Exactly. No 2 manufacturers use the same ogive shape and since the rifling is contacting the bullet's nose on the ogive and not at the tip, this type measurement has to be done every time you change bullet weights OR bullet brands.

If you'll keep a log book of the various bullets you reload over the years, you'll soon see which brands and weights to stay away from. After awhile you can look at a bullet's shape and have a fairly good idea if it will work in your gun. That's why I don't buy bullets from places that won't show me a photo before I order.

[ArchAngelCD]

If a case or loaded round that's within SAAMI specs will not fit in your rifle there might be something wrong with your rifle.

I would suggest you buy a 30-06 case length gauge and check your ammo as you make it.

Here (http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25547/catid/3/Dillon_Rifle_Case_Gages) is just one example.

[karl.ransom]

I loaded five rounds of each for a total of 25 rds 55.6, 56, 56.5, and 57 grns. I went out and shot them and would have to say that I was a little disappointed. Everything on my rifle is stock. I was shooting it off a rest and my best grouping was four rounds within an inch by inch area with a fifth round just outside of the box. My best grouping was with the 55.6 grns. I thought that I would have got my grouping a little tighter. Maybe I am expecting too much. I had also shot all of the rounds through my rifle, neck sized them, and reloaded them and two rounds stuck when chambering. Any thoughts.

[Floppy_D]

Any thoughts.
Yup, sounds like realistic results. Once you get the OAL dialed in, that group will probably shrink a bit.