[Wayne G.]

I've got plenty of experience with reloading pistol ammo (Dillon SD B) but I'm new to rifle reloading.

My interest is primarily in rolling .223 ammo as a hobby on my days off work. I won't be hunting or anything and I'm not concerned with benchrest accuracy, but rather just function and utility. I plan on starting with loading up around 1000 rounds over the next month or two then adding to that. I guess I'm saying I'll be loading more than I'm shooting. I want to eventually have 5k-10k loaded though I don't have a "deadline" nor am I particularly in a hurry.

So far I've got:
-reloading manual
-vibratory case cleaner
-case media separator
-digital scale
-dial caliper
-.223 dies
-bullets (62gr "855" steel core stuff)
-brass (military)
-primers (cci)

Still gotta get powder, a swager, puller, and a case trimmer (perhaps).

My question:

-Would you recommend a single-stage or turret (progressive) press? What kind?

Any other insights or suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks!

[Noveldoc]

I would consider the Lee Anniversary kit. Contains Lee Breech Lock Challenger "O" Frame Press, Lee Safety Prime Priming Tool, Lee Perfect Powder Measure with stand, Powder Funnel, Case Trimmer, Chamfer Tool, Primer Pocket Cleaner, Tube of case sizing lube, Lee Safety Powder Scale, all in one package deal. You can get the whole package for about $130.00 and I think a Lee single stage would be fine for your level of use and experience. You may want to work up to a turret or progressive press later but they are much harder to set up for a beginner and the single stage does a fine job with just a bit of practice.

Good luck to you,

Tom

[SPW1]

It depends on personal preference and just how much you plan to reload. Personally I prefer a single stage press over a turret press but you would most likely be fine with either. For rifle reloading give me a single stage every time. As far as good single stage presses there are far more good ones than bad ones out there. The Lee classic cast single stage press, Hornady, forester co-ax, and RCBS presses are all fine choices. The only ones that I would recommend you stay away from are some of the cheap aluminum lee presses.

[Friendly, Don't Fire!]

I hope you got the Full Length (FL) sizing die as it will make the brass more uniform for use in a semi-auto rifle.

[Maj Dad]

If you already have the SDB, you are familiar with Dillon - I have had my 550B for 10 years and love it. If you don't have the dough to spring for it, can you swap dies on the SDB (I remember some constraints)? Otherwise, get an inexpensive single-stage press, or a faster turret press (check out eBay and Gunbroker, and this site's for sale area - even better, no fees!). I don't think you can get a bad one, just some are better than others. Lot's of guys slam Lee because they're inexpensive ("cheap") or made of plastic or aluminum (though they have cast iron ones now), but like I said, I don't think any are bad. I have an RCBS Rockchucker (20+ years) and a Herter's U3 (around 40 years) and I still use them both. I might get a Lee just to have one... :D

[Wayne G.]

SPW, why do you prefer a single stage for rifle rounds?
.
Majdad, I've got the coin set aside for the press and could get a Dillon 550 or 650 (1050 is more than I want to spend). I don't want to buy a 550 or 650 if I'd be better served with a single stage and vice versa. I want to make an infomed buy, either way.
.
Thanks to everyone for the input thus far.

[mallc]

Sounds to me like you need a Hornady LNL AP - without the case feeder - and with 1000 free bullets.

Yes I am a confirmed Blueman...but the best deal for this guy is an LNL-AP.

Scott

[oneounceload]

check weights for the digital scale,media for the cleaner, loading blocks, more manuals from bullet makers, lube, lube brush for the case necks,, neck chamfer tool........and the list goes on from there......:D

[Shoney]

The Lee Classic Turret would probably be the better choice. You can get it in kit form for under $180:
https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=630&category_id=190&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41&vmcchk=1&Itemid=41

Rifle Caliber Kits include:
Lee Classic Turret Press
Lee PaceSetter Dies (3 Die set)
Lee Auto Disk Powder Measure
Lee Saftety Prime System (Large or Small)
Lee Auto Disk Riser
Powder-Thru Rifle Charging Die
Case Lube
Double Disk Kit
Rifle kits do not include boxes

[X-Rap]

You already have a Dillion so you know what to expect. Sell the SDB and get the conversions for the calibers you already have and get the 550. Better yet leave the SDB set up for lg. primers and do all your lg. handguns then use the 550 for the sm. pistol and 223 until you can spring for a 2nd 550.

[SPW1]

SPW, why do you prefer a single stage for rifle rounds?

#1 And most important to me is that most turret press's are not as ridged as a good single stage which sometimes leads to slightly less accurate reloads.

#2 Because I personally don't find a turret press to be a great deal faster than a single stage in my hands and if for some reason I wanted to make a large quantity of rifle rounds in a hurry I could just use my hornady LNL anyway.

#3 The single stage is less bulky and takes up less space on my bench.

#4 Because I started out with a single stage as a kid and have a degree of emotional attachment to that type of press. :cool:

[UltimateReloader]

I load rifle on a Hornady Lock-N-Load AP Progressive, A Hornady Lock-N-Load classic single stage, on a Dillon XL650, and on a Redding T-7 turret press. Each one has their pros and cons.

If you're concerned about repeatability *and* speed, consider the Redding T-7. It has a positive stop for the turret head behind the press so that the same deflection occurs each time, resulting in basically single stage accuracy.

The Hornady Lock-N-Load AP progressive and classic single stage make a great system together! You could start with one, and then add the other if you felt like it. With the interchangeable Lock-N-Load bushing system you can use your dies on either one, and even load with both (size and prime on the progressive, then charge off the press and seat witht the single stage if you want to get really precise).

The Dillon works GREAT too. I can get < .003" variance in COL with the XL650 and Redding seating dies working together. For the type of purposes you've described, that would be a good option. The case feeder works best on the Dillon in my experience, but caliber changeovers take longer, and the caliber kits are pretty expensive.

It all depends on what you're looking for, and how much time you have for your loading, and the quantities (sounds like a lot :) ).

[MichiganShootist]

Sell the "baby" Dillon and buy a 550... you can reload anything you want on it.

[SHIPCHIEF]

Hang out with some reloaders and have a good time. I did, it was great.
They are usually very helpful, and you get to find out that some of the stuff you were going to buy...well, you just won't need, or you like a different brand better.
Even better, sometimes they give you stuff they started on, which is still totally good.
My brother gave me a double set of Lyman Spartan single stage presses plus dies, powder, primers and bullets. He picked them up Cheap @ a garage sale about a decade before. Not quite a complete set of tools, but I was up and running 30-30 in No-Time, learning what I really wanted to expand into. Now I'm ready to give the Spartans to one of my sons.
I'm just holding back because this way they come over more often! :D

[jfh]

If you have not bought into brand allegiance (and it appears you haven't), here's one way to think about which press to get--

1. Since you have done progressive reloading already (the SDB), you're well acquainted with that kind of operation.

2. With a modified workflow (cleaned and sized, deprimed, etc. first), you can load your .223 ammo progressively--you really are seeking 'plinking' ammo, after all.

3. This suggests to me that you can get either a 550B, or the Lee Classic Cast setup. Both presses will work fine for you, IMO. The one caveat is that the 550 does not have automatic indexing--which, quite frankly, I consider the mark of a progressive. Having loaded on an SDB, you might find this quite disconcerting. The Lee Turret, OTOH, will provide auto indexing, or you can use it as a single stage.

Both the 550 and the Classic Cast would allow you to load all your calibres--but unless you want to sell the SDB setup, I would keep two presses running, as X-Rap suggested. I do consider the Lee Classic Cast turret to provide the benefits of single stage and automated turret use. But, I freely admit I am not really familiar with a 550; I've only checked it over at a LGS.

The LnL setup would be good, too--but it does seem to me it might be more than you need for what you're talking about.

FWIW--

Jim H.

[Sport45]

Others have given plenty of good info on the press. I'll throw in a suggestion that you get a case gage and use it. Mine are Lyman, but here's one (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=456614) that works the same way. I test every piece of brass after sizing and every cartridge after seating the bullet. A age like this will let you know if you sized enough or if the shoulder collapsed a bit when seating and/or crimping. Much less fuss than slamming the but against the ground while pulling the charge handle to get a stuck cartridge out of the chamber... (I'm assuming you have an AR or other auto to be thinking of stockpiling 10k rounds.)

Still gotta get powder, a swager, puller, and a case trimmer (perhaps).


You'll probably need the trimmer with your military brass. The Lee trimmer in a drill press would be the fastest route to trimming mass quantities. A reamer in the same press will take care of primer crimps very quickly too.

[RoostRider]

Would you recommend a single-stage or turret (progressive) press? What kind?

Experienced loader who wants to put out a lot of plinker rounds?

Progressive..... not turret... (they are not the same)... no doubt.... pick a color and go with a good one.... (love my 550... but that LNL looks nice too)

[FROGO207]

Lots of opinions. I like the single stage press for all work. It takes mooorre time to make the ammo, Still I think there is more time to inspect and test as each round is made and that to me means a better quality end product. If you are in a hurry get a LNL and go for it. Me I want to plug away and be sure EVERY round is the best quality one I can produce.:D I have been known to load 500 rounds of 380 in an evening, Now that's fun.:cool:

[jcwit]

I'll side with you frog. Relaxation and enjoyment is what its all about for me.

I use 2 single stage side by side, 1 flares and charges with a Pro Auto Disk, the other seats and crimps. I realize I can get much faster outfits but this is how I like to do it and I enjoy it. nuff said.

[husker]

LEE Breech Lock Challenger "O" Frame Press, Anniversary kit. I paid $ 84.00 at Cabelas last fall


EDIT. it is on sale today at Cabelas $89.99 or the RCBS supreme master reloading kit for $280.00 screw that

[FROGO207]

The price has jumped about $12 since last fall. Now at Natchez $94.49 is a better deal for now. natchezss.com They have a paper sale flier also.

[RoostRider]

Lots of opinions. I like the single stage press for all work. It takes mooorre time to make the ammo, Still I think there is more time to inspect and test as each round is made and that to me means a better quality end product. If you are in a hurry get a LNL and go for it. Me I want to plug away and be sure EVERY round is the best quality one I can produce. I have been known to load 500 rounds of 380 in an evening, Now that's fun.

You are entirely correct sir.... for the best quality control, nothing beats a single stage, or top quality turret press (I have one of each).... sounds to me like that is not what he is looking for here though, which is why I steer the poster to a progressive... getting a spare 5000 rounds of 223 would take an awful long time on a single, especially if he were shooting at all as well... and since he specifically wants plinkers.... there you go...

[UltimateReloader]

Nothing wrong with loading rifle ammo on a progressive. There are a few considerations however:

If you're depriming/priming on the press, you won't be able to clean primer pockets
You need a press that will hold a tight tolerance on bullet seating depth repeatability
Some powders (stick) can be a challenge to meter on a progressive (the type you'd trickle when loading with a bench powder measure)
Full-length sizing can require a lot of force. Not usually a big issue, but it changes the dynamics of using a progressive for sure.


I find that ball powders do really well on a progressive, powders like Winchester 760. With the right powder, measure (hopefully with baffle) you can throw very consistent charges.

Also note that since you're talking about .223 remington, you may need to swage primer pockets for some brass. The only press that I know of that does this without special operations off the press is the Dillon 1050, which is a whole other "level" of press. :)

[okierifleman]

I could not imagine loading 5000 rounds on a single stage. I load my .223 for my bolt guns on a single stage, but I still buy my plinking ammo. If I was going to get serious about loading large quantities, it would be the Dillon 650 for me. I am actually looking for a good used one now.......

[Deavis]

For the needs that you describe, get a progressive. If you ever branch out into volume pistol shooting, you're all set. LnL or 650 with casefeeders. When you are ready to trim a lot of brass, get a 1200B trimmer and go to town. Best investment you will ever make in a trimmer, it is fast, accurate, and easy to use. With a good pace you can run about 1200/hr on a 650XL.

[rfwobbly]

Wayne -
I keep thinking it would be helpful to know what else you are going to load. Like, what other cartridges did you buy your Sq Deal for?? Do you still need those calibers??

I looked at the Sq Deal years ago, but decided not to do it because you're sort of "painted into a corner", and I feel that's where you are now. Here's how I see your situation...

• If you keep the Sq Deal, then you won't need another progressive, hand operated or automatic.

• If you buy a single stage to go along with the Sq Deal, then it will use different dies. You'll never be able to place those dies in the Sq Deal and rip off 50 rounds. But needing that many rounds, a single stage is going to take a long time to get there.

• Having gotten accustomed to Dillon, I doubt there are many presses out there that would meet your level of expectation for trouble-free operation and quality of ammo.


So IMHO the Sq Deal is the real issue here.

• Have you considered selling the Sq Deal? You could get really good money for it on Ebay. If that doesn't appeal, have you called Dillon about a possible trade in?

• Have you considered what it might cost to call Georgia Arms and simply buy 5000 rounds of reloaded ammo and skip the press altogether ??


So IMHO the question you asked can't be answered until you decide what to do with the Sq Deal. Hope this helps!

[RustyFN]

I agree with the Lee classic turret. I can load 250 to 300 per hour on mine after case prep is done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOpN9iYOyE8

[JimKirk]

If you are going for speed go with one of the progressives, If you are after accuracy then get the Forster Co-ax single stage. I promise that you will never wish you hadn't bought it!

Jimmy K

[Wayne G.]

Thank you all for sharing your experience and recommendations.

Given the case preparation requirements for reloading rifle cartridges (223), along with my interest in just picking up this as a hobby with no time constraints, I elected to go with a single stage press. If I could throw fired cases on stage one and just crank them out like I do with pistol cartridges, I'd certainly have gone with a progressive. But if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas! I may add a progressive in time, but for now I'll cut my teeth on the single stage.

The 5k-10k rounds I mentioned is an eventual projection of loaded rounds (like over the next couple of years). I'll only be loading about 100 at a time or so. Even then, 5k-10k is a bit optimistic. Perhaps 3k loaded is more realistic.

I don't intend to load other calibers on this press--at least right now, but I got the lock-n-load conversion kit anyway for simplicity in changing dies.

Again, I appreciate your input--it allowed me to research options and make an informed decision.

[rfwobbly]

If I could throw fired cases on stage one and just crank them out like I do with pistol cartridges, I'd certainly have gone with a progressive.

Ah, my friend, but you can if you use the RCBS "X-Dies". Using a special first time trim length and the X-Dies make it to where the cases never need trimming again. In that way the progressive can be utilized.

[Wayne G.]

Sounds like X-dies would speed things up considerably--no trimming required and no interruption between stages 1 and 2 because no case lube is necessary....sounds too good to be true!

Thanks for the info, I'll read-up on the X-Dies.

[RustyFN]

Sounds like X-dies would speed things up considerably--no trimming required and no interruption between stages 1 and 2 because no case lube is necessary...

Sorry to say that you will always need case lube for a bottle neck case. The thing is with the X-die you don't need to trim so you load from a empty case to a complete round and then tumble them to remove the lube. Yes a lot of us tumble live ammo.

[BigJakeJ1s]

So use an RCBS lube die. But you need to use an RCBS or Hornady progressive, since the powder drop will need to move to station three (1: lube/deprime/reprime, 2:x-size (remove depriming pin), 3: drop powder...

Andy

[rfwobbly]

Nay, not so.

While experimenting with a friend's RCBS X-Dies, I used a standard case lube pad and rolled/ lubed 5-10 cases at a time, before installing them in the press. These were then set on a Dillon 550b and loaded in 3 positions: 1. size/prime, 2. bell/powder, 3. seat. It worked like a champ.

Loading went just as fast as my 9mm !!

[OrangePwrx9]

Going single-stage was a wise move, Wayne. I started on a single-stage 30 years ago, went progressive with a pair of Lee Pro-1000s, and am now back to my old single-stage and sorry I ever left. In fact I found another single-stage like it (RCBS RS) on ebay and now have two.

If you LIKE reloading, as I do, why spend big $ to hurry through it? When the Lee 1000s were working right, it was a challenge to keep components on hand. It would be even harder now.

When the 1000s were acting up, it was just a lot of frustration and poor/untrustworthy ammo. Worst of all, you sometimes didn't catch on to a problem until hundreds of rounds were made. As was said above, the single-stage lets you gage each case and inspect the results of each operation. Problems are caught immediately.

I'm looking forward to Winter. I'll spend those cold dark evenings down in the basement quietly cranking out reliable ammo, one round at a time, with the wood burning furnace in the corner keeping everything warm and toasty. Peace of Mind -- squared.

[jcwit]

Only thing that sounds better OrangePwex9 would be if that basement was under a log cabin on a private lake. Think Thomas Kinkade painting.