.410 for deer hunting


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jtheise4
October 13, 2009, 05:04 PM
How effective is a .410 for deer hunting? I'm in southeastern Michigan and will only be shooting at ranges of 40 yards or less. Thanks.

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Friendly, Don't Fire!
October 13, 2009, 05:07 PM
I would think a .410 slug would be more powerful than a .41 Magnum handgun, and I would think a well-placed shot would bring a deer down, especially if you can get 3" Magnum Slugs!

I don't think Buckshot would do it.

rcmodel
October 13, 2009, 05:15 PM
A 1/5 oz .410 slug weighs about 90 grains. Or about the same as a .380 pistol bullet.
A 1/4 oz .410 slug weighs about 110 grains. Or about the same as a .30 Carbine bullet.

It is going faster then a .380 ACP, however velocity cannot make up for such a light bullet/slug.

Not to say it won't kill a deer, but so will a .22 long rifle if you hit him in the right place.

rc

f4t9r
October 13, 2009, 05:32 PM
I think a 410 is light for deer. At 40 yards a well placed shot would work.
I would recommend getting something bigger.

rcmodel
October 13, 2009, 05:50 PM
BTW: A .410 slug has nowhere near the killing power of a .41 Magnum handgun.

While the energy figures are fairly close, (.410 = 654 lb/ft .41 Mag = 788 lb/ft) penetration is not.

A .41 Mag revolver will shoot through a deer lengthways.
A .410 slug won't because of poor sectional density of the lightweight slug.

rc

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
October 13, 2009, 05:50 PM
Back many years ago, I use to load the empty .410 shells with 65 grs
Blaclpowder and a 210 gr. 410 dia. simi-wadcutter pistol bullet. This was
the same as the old 40-65 . It was very good on deer. Very accurate too.

RSVP2RIP
October 13, 2009, 06:29 PM
Brenneke 1/4oz 3" .410 slug



Distance
(yards) Velocity
(feet/sec.) Energy
(ft. lbs.) Bullet path
(inch)
Muzzle 1755 781 - 2.0
25 1427 517 + 0.2
50 1179 352 + 1.4
75 1025 266 + 1.0
100 930 219 - 1.4

Just doesn't pack the mail for deer. The old box had a picture of a rabbit on it, so I don't think the intended market was deer hunters.

JShirley
October 13, 2009, 06:58 PM
I would use any magnum handgun cartridge from a rifle before I'd use a .410 slug.

Here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5937750&postcount=22)'s a recent post with some numbers.

BBroadside
October 14, 2009, 01:07 AM
I'm no expert on this, but I thought I'd weigh on what a strange "place" the .410 slug is, ballistically speaking. It's easy to miss what a strange projectile it is, usually because slugs weights are measured in ounces, and who really has the ounce-to-grain conversion formula memorized. This is why my physics teachers always praised the metric system.

The loading I'm thinking of is 88 grains hurled out at 1830 feet per second. Very few handgun or shotgun projectiles are that fast, and handgun bullets, even much smaller-caliber ones, are almost always heavier. This is a projectile that is similar in velocity, though lighter and much wider, than a .30 Carbine bullet. "Wide and fast" seems like it should be very effective but, as others have said, it's not a particularly good aerodynamic shape and I suspect at moderate ranges it has lost a lot of velocity, as well as not being particularly accurate.

Those who know say the slug increases the versatility of your jackrabbit shotgun by turning into an anti-racoon slug gun at short ranges. The caliber is used in certain survival guns, so someone is probably thinking it would be good for getting meat ... but potshooting with the birdshot may be more efficient. Again, small game experts know more about this than me.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
October 14, 2009, 01:29 AM
According to the posts below, that is a 110 grain slug, traveling at 1,755 fps.
The OP stated they intended to shoot close range, within 40 yards.

I put my money on the .410 doing the job humanely, with a well-placed shot, if the OP has nothing else they can use to hunt deer.

Read this. (http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=10204)

Again, I say, keep it within 40 yards if that is the only choice of gun you have and if it is legal, go for it!
Please let us know how it worked for you if you get one!

devildog4329
October 14, 2009, 01:47 AM
I know that in Maryland where i hunt the .410 is below the except able gauge. Check on its legality in your state.

Black Toe Knives
October 14, 2009, 02:03 AM
410 is legal in KY.

RandKL
October 14, 2009, 03:40 AM
.410 slugs come in quite a few other loadings than just 90gr and 110gr, RCM. If you look around a bit, you can find 220gr, 240gr, 300gr, and even a massive 375gr slug that has almost identical stats to a 400gr .45-70. Would you be comfortable shooting a white tail with a .45-70? 1800ft lbs at the muzzle?

rich

Guvnor
October 14, 2009, 08:31 AM
Its more an issue of accuracy in my opinion. Most 410's have full chokes and therefore lousy accuracy with slugs. 40 yards seems pretty optimistic, My 410 with the bead sight shoots slugs with acceptable accuracy out to 15-20 yards or so. At 40 yards I dont think I could hit the broad side of a barn with it.

Plus the 410 slug is soft lead and tends to fragment, limiting penetration. The brenneke slug seems to be the exception as it is made of a harder lead alloy.

Nevertheless, I have heard of people taking deer with 410 slugs so it can be done. Just choose your shots very carefully and stick to close range only.

natman
October 14, 2009, 08:46 AM
.410 slugs come in quite a few other loadings than just 90gr and 110gr, RCM. If you look around a bit, you can find 220gr, 240gr, 300gr, and even a massive 375gr slug that has almost identical stats to a 400gr .45-70. Would you be comfortable shooting a white tail with a .45-70? 1800ft lbs at the muzzle?

rich
I presume that you are talking about these:

http://www.hoeningbigboresouth.com/Big%20410%20Ballistics.html

It's an interesting concept, but there's one part that sticks out:

"While extreme accuracy and power are possible and available in the HBBS Rifled 410 bore, it does not require extreme chamber pressure to achieve them! A fact difficult for many people to believe."

I do find it difficult to believe that you can quadruple the projectile weight and only lose 300 fps while still keeping SAAMI pressure.

While it may well be possible to improve on factory 410 slug performance fired from a shotgun, I don't think a custom rifled barrel 410 with custom ammo is what the OP had in mind. For one thing, it would cost more than just buying a nice new 308.

rmuzz
October 14, 2009, 09:40 AM
Check out this. (http://mcb-homis.com/index410.html) Its a index of some articles and tests written by a guy who hunts with a .410 and has some tests and product info as well as some advice and some things to consider for someone considering hunting whitetail with a .410.

Arkansas Paul
October 14, 2009, 10:52 AM
Just because something will kill a deer, doesn't make it a good idea. As has been said, there have been a ton of deer killed with a .22 lr. Doesn't make it a good idea.

RandKL
October 14, 2009, 11:34 AM
I do find it difficult to believe that you can quadruple the projectile weight and only lose 300 fps while still keeping SAAMI pressure.

If you think you know better than they do, the folks who have been making and selling those slugs on the market for a couple of years, from you simply having read a page on the web, then argue with them, Nat. Whatever your opinion might be, it has nothing to do with the answer.

While it may well be possible to improve on factory 410 slug performance fired from a shotgun, I don't think a custom rifled barrel 410 with custom ammo is what the OP had in mind. For one thing, it would cost more than just buying a nice new 308.

You seem to be focused on ONE example of ammo, there, Nat. The 220gr, the 240gr, and the 300gr are all Brennekes that pop up on gunbroker every few days.

The 375gr is *designed* to be fired from a rifled slug barrel just like all other solid, bullet-type or sabot ammo. It relies on rifling for spin and extended range accuracy. It *FIRES* from any non-choked .410 slug barrel. And again, you seem to be focusing on the *ONE* slug listed and discounting the other three....*all* of which fit the OP's question.

rich

rcmodel
October 14, 2009, 12:04 PM
Would you be comfortable shooting a white tail with a .45-70? 1800ft lbs at the muzzle?Of course I would.

Would you be able to find those rifled .410 shotguns and 300 grain slugs you speak of at Wallyworld?

Your example has nothing at all to do with the average hunter, or the average .410 shotgun, or the average slug ammo available to him.

rc

RandKL
October 14, 2009, 12:22 PM
Would you be able to find those rifled .410 shotguns and 300 grain slugs you speak of at Wallyworld?

That's not the question, RC. I haven't bought ammo at Walmart in over fifteen years (closer to twenty). I'd wager a guess that most of us don't consider Walmart our #1 source. I buy my reloading supplies from Midway or gunbroker and my powder from a local sports shop. That doesn't stop my 12ga from being a 12ga, though.

Incidentally, H&R makes a cheap .45/.410 fully rifled slug gun that you probably *would* find at Walmart....and the other three are brenneke's designed for the common smoothbore slug barrel.

Your example has nothing at all to do with the average hunter, or the average .410 shotgun, or the average slug ammo available to him.

The OP asked about using his .410 for deer....he's as perfectly capable of buying his ammo from gunbroker as any one of us is if gunbroker sells the ammo he needs. Hell, given the right coaching, he could be reloading his own custom ammo inside a day or two. He's not limited to just what his local Walmart stocks.

rich

KBintheSLC
October 14, 2009, 12:48 PM
I would think a .410 slug would be more powerful than a .41 Magnum handgun

As others have stated, the 410 is not equal to the 41 mag. I would only use a 410 to hunt deer if I needed to survive and it was my only option.

.410 slugs come in quite a few other loadings than just 90gr and 110gr, RCM. If you look around a bit, you can find 220gr, 240gr, 300gr, and even a massive 375gr slug that has almost identical stats to a 400gr .45-70. Would you be comfortable shooting a white tail with a .45-70? 1800ft lbs at the muzzle?

Huh? Now the 410 is equal to a 45-70? Where is all of this stuff coming from?

Gryffydd
October 14, 2009, 12:57 PM
The loading I'm thinking of is 88 grains hurled out at 1830 feet per second. ... This is a projectile that is similar in velocity, though lighter and much wider, than a .30 Carbine bullet.
Lighter, and 400fps slower...

Also, with an answer like this, I really don't think the Hoening slugs are of much interest to the OP
http://www.hoeningbigboresouth.com/HBBS_410_Frequently_Asked_Questions.html#n10

Then there's the $60/20 rounds thing.

Bud Tugly
October 14, 2009, 01:38 PM
People kill deer with bows all the time, and a .410 will certainly work also if that's all you have. Like a bow, however, you'll need to be patient enough to take only close shots and have the discipline to pass on longer ones if you are going to be an ethical hunter.

That said, the step up in knockdown power between a 20 gauge slug and a .410 is quite dramatic. You'd be a lot more confident and versatile with a 20 gauge or larger for deer if you can get your hands on one.

RandKL
October 14, 2009, 02:18 PM
Huh? Now the 410 is equal to a 45-70? Where is all of this stuff coming from?

Gryf and Nat posted links. It's been a few months since I first saw them but I think that's the one. Those are designed for use in rifled slug barrels....I don't know if anyone makes a rifled choke tube for a .410 yet.

There's new stuff coming out for guns all the time. Answering a question based on twenty year old knowledge/data is akin to asking a guy who's not used one for twenty years what he thinks. His answer and modern reality might not be too close to one another.

rich

BBroadside
October 14, 2009, 02:34 PM
"Lighter, and 400fps slower..."

Well, I certainly haven't heard of a .30 Carbine bullet doing 2230 feet per second, but I gather .30 Carbine is much more versatile cartridge than GI loadings would imply.

okespe04
October 14, 2009, 03:24 PM
Get a tag and go hunting, use slugs.

Gryffydd
October 14, 2009, 04:05 PM
Well, I certainly haven't heard of a .30 Carbine bullet doing 2230 feet per second, but I gather .30 Carbine is much more versatile cartridge than GI loadings would imply.
The .30 carbine can push a 100gr bullet to over 2200fps. It can push an 85gr to 2450fps.

natman
October 15, 2009, 03:55 AM
Yes, you can kill a deer with a 410 slug, if the range is short.

However, the odds of wounding it are higher than with almost any other centerfire longarm cartridge. Not enough accuracy, not enough penetration.

I don't recommend using a 223 or a 357 magnum pistol for deer either, but I'd pick one of them over a 410 with slugs.

Unless you have some compelling reason that forces you to use a 410, use something else.

WardenWolf
October 15, 2009, 05:18 AM
A .410 slug is less powerful than a .45 Long Colt. You're effectively hunting them with a handgun round. The .410 is just bad for hunting all around, both with shot and slug. It's a caliber searching for a reason to exist.

KBintheSLC
October 15, 2009, 05:57 PM
People kill deer with bows all the time, and a .410 will certainly work also if that's all you have. Like a bow, however, you'll need to be patient enough to take only close shots and have the discipline to pass on longer ones if you are going to be an ethical hunter.

I wouldn't be surprised if the bow and arrow would penetrate deeper than the .410 sluglett.

Grey_Mana
October 15, 2009, 07:17 PM
wouldn't be surprised if the bow and arrow would penetrate deeper than the .410 sluglett. I'd be amazed if the bow penetrated at all. :) The arrow, that's a different story.

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