Why do people buy guns?


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boostedxt
October 13, 2009, 06:37 PM
So I just had a conversation with a buddy of mine who bought a gun 3 years ago. I have been trying to convince him to sell it to me..:D..but he wont and his reason was because he needs it if someone breaks in. Now the title is a bit misleading but why do people buy guns and then just let them sit there? In 3 years he has...

- He has put about 50 rounds through it.
- Has never purchased ammo for it. He has it loaded with a box of Winchester white box I gave him to go target shooting with for his birthday.
- Has never cleaned it
- Has never taken it apart to lube it
- Hasn't even taken it out of his draw

He has no clue as to how it works or how to fix it should it break. My theory is that if you have a gun for home defense you need to be excellent at many things......even in the dark. Shooting with each hand, loading, fixing jams, moving while shooting, kneeling, laying prone, everything. If you arent at least good at those its probably more dangerous to have a gun than it is to not have one.

People like this remind me of the line in Zorro where Shaun Connery asks if he even knows how to use the sword and he replies.."Pointy end goes into the other guy."

Thoughts?
Joe

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Jim K
October 13, 2009, 06:55 PM
Some people buy guns because they seriously need them for protection. Those folks generally do know how to use their guns since there is a very real and known threat.

Others buy them the way they might buy a fire extinguisher, just in case of some vague need sometime in the future. Since a threat is not considered seriously, the gun owner will not think seriously about the gun as a means of defense. Your friend is that kind.

Others buy them because they like guns. Why the fascination? There have been some studies by psychiatrists, but most have been so tainted by the political agenda of the people doing or commissioning the studies that they are worthless. (Of what value is a study of gun ownership by the Brady campaign, for example? "All gun owners are insane, fascist fanatic killers ....")

The liking of guns seems to me to have no more rationale than the liking of cars, or postage stamps, or coins or any other object men (and owners and collectors are mostly men) find collectible and fascinating. Some women do collect, but rarely with the avidity that men do, though women often buy and collect quilts, china, and art objects. Hummel collectors are mainly women, not men. For collectors, the "deadly weapon" aspect of firearms is of little concern, though many do shoot and practice. Mostly, though, gun collectors no more consider their guns as weapons than coin collectors consider their collections as pocket change.

Jim

boostedxt
October 13, 2009, 06:59 PM
the biggest thing, and you hit on it in your 2nd paragraph. why buy a gun for home defense and then do nothing with it?

I have a escape plan for my fiance in case of intruder, fire, tornado...crap like that! This is the same guy who has a motorcycle and every 3 months goes to a lot and practices emergency procedures and evasive moves to improve his riding skills.

joe

BigMustard
October 13, 2009, 07:05 PM
Peace of mind?

w_houle
October 13, 2009, 07:14 PM
My Dad is like that, but at least he will shoot them with me, but it's more out of just spending time rather than out of proficiency. I also notice this habit translates to non firearms that he feels he has a need for, yet never actually incorporated into his life.

zhyla
October 13, 2009, 09:32 PM
Your friend may be incompetent with his weapon but he's still infinitely better off than having no gun at all. Why don't you nag him to go to the range instead of trying to weasel him out of the only weapon he owns?

boostedxt
October 13, 2009, 09:36 PM
tried that many times...he has no desire too. I figure if he has no desire to shoot ever and doesnt ever do anything with it he might as well have $500 more dollars...;)

joe

Rodentman
October 13, 2009, 09:39 PM
I like reloading. I need to have something to shoot the ammo or I'll end up with a basement full of cartridges.

chevyforlife21
October 13, 2009, 09:42 PM
well it sounds like your friends gun isnt even gunna work if he does need it if there is a home invasion, if its never been oiled and its an auto....

boostedxt
October 13, 2009, 10:09 PM
Thats what gets me....I told him if he does nothing to the gun odds are it might work for 1 round...then it will jam. Now what?

I have tried to get him to go to the range with me...nothing. I even bought him ammo...lol...nothing!

joe

76shuvlinoff
October 13, 2009, 10:15 PM
For some reason I have guns I rarely shoot ...but I do not see them as a waste of resources nor am I motivated to get rid of them.

Ed Ames
October 13, 2009, 10:29 PM
How is your question any different than, "Why would someone keep $500 in the bank (or in cash) if they aren't going to spend it today? They aren't enjoying it and if they need to spend it they won't be as knowledgeable about spending money, won't know how to haggle or what stores have the best deals. They should spend it now or buy something from me so I can spend it."

Some people gain a sense of security from having resources in reserve. Money in the bank, full tank of fuel, a gun in the drawer... if they didn't have those things they'd need to get them.

EOD Guy in VA
October 13, 2009, 10:35 PM
There are as many answers to this question as there are types of guns and types of people. I collect for three reasons... history, technology, and personal protection.

highorder
October 13, 2009, 10:38 PM
If you arent at least good at those its probably more dangerous to have a gun than it is to not have one.

Wrong.

Again and again people with no experience come out on top because they were armed. Thats enough for 95% of the people out there.

Mad Magyar
October 13, 2009, 10:39 PM
but why do people buy guns and then just let them sit there? In 3 years he has...

- He has put about 50 rounds through it.
- Has never purchased ammo for it. He has it loaded with a box of Winchester white box I gave him to go target shooting with for his birthday.
- Has never cleaned it
- Has never taken it apart to lube it
- Hasn't even taken it out of his draw

He has no clue as to how it works or how to fix it should it break.
There was a poll conducted IIRC, Guns & Ammo about two years ago. Actually, you described a healthy percentage of people that own firearms. Many of these owners just want something in the house or near the night-stand. They figure if they could just point in the right direction & pull the trigger; that's good enough.
I won't knock them, like it was said by one of the posters; better to have something then nothing at all.

Shadow 7D
October 13, 2009, 10:47 PM
I like the fire extinguisher theory better, how many people have actually used a fire extinguisher, are familiar with the process of aiming them, good thing they have pictures (and written instruction believe it or not) on them.

Best yet, do you know what the expiration date of your extinguishers is? Most come with a service tag with an expiration date. When was the last time you checked the little dial to make sure it was in the green.

These are the things that you do every time you practice and clean your pistol, ensuring that it functions and will continue to function.

well my paranoia is flaring up, off to see where the little guy has hid the fire extinguisher this week, and yes you have to pull hard to get the pin out, I switched it out with an old cotter pin on a keyring about the time my son started taking it off the hook.

frankiestoys
October 13, 2009, 10:55 PM
As some have already said ,there maybe several reasons why people buy guns.
I have to believe that many of the guys that write on these thread's look at gun collecting as a part of who they are, maybe on how they were raised or what they have become like Hunters,soldiers,cops, hobbyist.
But i have to agree a gun can be useless or even dangerous to some one who has little or no training with one.
You, that means all of us .have to get out and shoot, practice and know all the do's and dont's of owning a firearm.

Ed Ames
October 13, 2009, 10:59 PM
I once got a "you are crazy" tirade from a friend over a fire extinguisher. I needed/wanted a small fire extinguisher for a specific application so I went to the store and bought two. They weren't especially cheap. I then went home, set a small fire, and emptied one of the two putting it out.

The reaction wasn't because I set a fire... it was in an old grill and was perfectly contained. The reaction was to my "throwing away" the price of a fire extinguisher. My answer that I had never used that type of extinguisher and wanted to see if (and how) it worked was answered with, "I've never used any fire extinguisher, doesn't mean I'm going to throw away the price of one for no reason."

He had no problem with the idea of buying a fire extinguisher... he had at least one... but he saw no reason to use one until there was an active emergency.

Iam2taz
October 13, 2009, 11:04 PM
For years I owned a handgun, couple of shotguns, and a muzzle loading rifle. I haven't hunted deer in a coon's age. Haven't shot rabbits, squirrels or birds either. Didn't carry my weapon, didn't practice, didn't think about it. :uhoh: About 12 years ago, I was doing a building inspection in broad daylight. Walked down an alley, 10 am in the morning, and much to my surprise, I, wait me, yup... became the victim of a crime.
NEVER AGAIN! :mad:
Now, I carry a pistol. Took 12 years to get to this point. A couple of other things happened recently to move me toward that end. Now, I practice, have a flashlight handy, check things out that go bump in the night. Yep, I'm slow, but I am accurate. I sleep a lot lighter these days. Some of my friends have said I'm paranoid. Easy for them to say.
Give your friend time. Things may change. He may come to you one day for help in learning how to shoot that gun properly. Just hope he does have to go through what I've been through.

deputy tom
October 14, 2009, 12:12 AM
Oddly enough I had a conversation with an old friend tonight and
he mentioned buying a .38 spl revolver about thirty years ago.Said he and his wife might have shot 18 rds. thru it when they bought it.I asked him if he had cleaned and oiled it since and he said no.I told him the oil had probably turned into varnish and he should clean it up.He agreed.tom.:confused:

TheBandit
October 14, 2009, 12:45 AM
I have an uncle who owns 200+ guns. There is no way 99% of them ever get used...he owns them because he likes them I guess.

PS-Hi Joe...never seen you over here

wrs840
October 14, 2009, 12:45 AM
I think these days, guns are amazingly inexpensive for the amount of engineering many of them embody. That, and the historical contribution to the advancement of the ability of mankind to provide for his family and defend his territory would be good enough. Beyond that... expressions of art. If you actually use, practice with, and care for them, so much the better. Everyone should be allowed to decide for themself "why" though.

Les

boostedxt
October 14, 2009, 01:28 AM
I like the fire extinguisher theory better, how many people have actually used a fire extinguisher, are familiar with the process of aiming them, good thing they have pictures (and written instruction believe it or not) on them.Yes...and I have used a big hose a few times too..;)

Best yet, do you know what the expiration date of your extinguishers is? Most come with a service tag with an expiration date. When was the last time you checked the little dial to make sure it was in the green.July sometime. I get it certified and checked every year.

These are the things that you do every time you practice and clean your pistol, ensuring that it functions and will continue to function.

well my paranoia is flaring up, off to see where the little guy has hid the fire extinguisher this week, and yes you have to pull hard to get the pin out, I switched it out with an old cotter pin on a keyring about the time my son started taking it off the hook.

Thebandit: who are you!!!?? lol oh and yeah but I bet the one he has in his night stand or the one he has on his hip he is pretty good at using it.

joe

Lowlander91
October 14, 2009, 01:34 AM
I bought a springfield gi for carry use but since i havent had time to test fire it stays in the case. i only use guns i know can run smoothly and what ammo is best for them. that is why my carry gun is my dan wesson 357 and my HD gun is my Mossberg 590 . once i get to know my springfield ill carry it but until then it ill have to wait. dang i really want to shoot that thing.


I think people buy guns and never shoot them or care for them is becasue they dont know someone who can help them or they just bought it thinking everything will work when it needs to.

lions
October 14, 2009, 01:53 AM
Well, not all gun owners are THR members. I would wager that most folks here take shooting a little more serious than the majority of the gun owning community. If he doesn't want to shoot it, too bad for him. At least he has one which puts him farther ahead than if he didn't.

Oh, also, if you are really concerned that it won't work if he ever does need it because he has neglected to do any maintenance in 3 years, then I would suggest helping him out and clean & oil it for him. You know, because you're a friend... and you care.

chevyforlife21
October 14, 2009, 01:56 AM
how come your friend wont shoot it? is he scared?

pancakeofdoom
October 14, 2009, 02:08 AM
i agree. kind of weird. personally, i just bought my first handgun a couple weeks ago, and it still isn't loaded with anything. put bout 100rnds so far through it, another couple hundred and i'll probably trust it plenty, and then i still need to take a few classes and buy some literature so i'll be proficient with it, and know the law for carry and defense. same will go for my girlfriend. honestly i'd rather leave it unloaded until both of us are completely competent and know what we're doing. ya, somebody could break in tonight and kill us both, but i'd rather not be uncomfortable with a handgun and end up shooting through walls and killing neighbors and their children (apartment). besides, got through life so far ok with no gun, don't think it'll kill me to wait another few weeks to get all of my facts straight.

but to answer your question, i think its just peace of mind. then again, there are plenty of people that do that with a lot of things, cars, nice clothes, electronics, etc. they get them to have them, not necessarily to use them, or use them correctly unfortunately. applies to a lot of things

wrs840
October 14, 2009, 02:12 AM
Oh, also, if you are really concerned that it won't work if he ever does need it because he has neglected to do any maintenance in 3 years, then I would suggest helping him out and clean & oil it for him. You know, because you're a friend... and you care.

Yeah, and if he doesn't shoot it, (or leave it outside in the rain), a clean-and-oil once every twenty years or so outta do...

Les

boostedxt
October 14, 2009, 03:25 AM
Oh, also, if you are really concerned that it won't work if he ever does need it because he has neglected to do any maintenance in 3 years, then I would suggest helping him out and clean & oil it for him. You know, because you're a friend... and you care.

offered and he has declined...i even told him I would take it out to the range, shoot it and clean it, and then tell him which ammo worked best....nope. nothing..

joe

1SOW
October 14, 2009, 03:27 AM
I like to reload, shoot and compete; so I do.

I have a life insurance policy, but I don't take it out, reread the fine print, calculate the present value, and remind the inheritors of the procedures to cash it in. I sure don't plan to practice, and I don't socialize with those that do. I have it. They know it. That's enough.

Maybe he feels the same way--might happen once, so years of practice might not seem an economical way to spend time..






Mad Magyar: BUT Speed AND Accuracy is MORE final. Might even want to add quantity to the equation.

wrs840
October 14, 2009, 03:30 AM
offered and he has declined...i even told him I would take it out to the range, shoot it and clean it, and then tell him which ammo worked best....nope. nothing..

joe

So why persist in this apparently futile pursuit?

Les

scythefwd
October 14, 2009, 04:44 AM
I would fit into your category. I have several arms, all of which (except my .30-30) have less than 50 rounds through them by me (while I have owned them...some I shot before I owned them). I can still hit what I am aiming at and I can work any of the actions blindfolded (I can even tell you which is which just by weight / feel in my hand). Would I consider my self proficient? Not really, but I'm not as inexperienced as some would guess. I won't win any competitions, but under 50y, I will hit COM with every arm I own. Some I can hit COM out to 100 (including my hand guns) without a thought. My rifles are all 200y weapons in my hands. I learned to shoot properly early in life (started when I was 8, I'm now 30), and I haven't forgotten those lessons.

Why do I buy guns??? Because they aren't free :)

scythefwd
October 14, 2009, 04:50 AM
Best yet, do you know what the expiration date of your extinguishers is? Most come with a service tag with an expiration date. When was the last time you checked the little dial to make sure it was in the green.

ABC fire extinguishers can be recharged. They "expire" because the powder settles into a large brick in the bottom after a time. On post, the fire marshall would inspect the extinguishers. If the powder had settled, he would wack the bottom with a rubber mallet until the mass had broken up. He would then put a new sticker on them and they were good for another year.

I have used my extinguisher, and I can do it without the instructions :) It was all my fault too :(

Oonzpoonz
October 14, 2009, 12:38 PM
Perhaps, it allows better control of your fate.

hammerklavier
October 14, 2009, 12:53 PM
To the OP, since you obviously covet your friend's gun, trade him an equivalent weapon to have while you use, clean, oil, and otherwise maintain his for awhile.

I'll bet your friend's attitude matches the majority of handgun owners.

41magsnub
October 14, 2009, 01:00 PM
For some reason I have guns I rarely shoot ...but I do not see them as a waste of resources nor am I motivated to get rid of them.

Except my guess is you have a subset of those guns that do get shot and you are proficient with. The OP is about folks who buy a single gun and never practice with or carry it.

TheBandit
October 14, 2009, 01:11 PM
Thebandit: who are you!!!?? lol oh and yeah but I bet the one he has in his night stand or the one he has on his hip he is pretty good at using it.

I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of an ex green berets barrel.

Would you know who I was if I asked about your cat and "muzzle discipline"?

mugsie
October 14, 2009, 01:20 PM
Why do people buy guns?

Uh -- because they can?

Great living in a free society isn't it?
then thank a veteran!

texas bulldog
October 14, 2009, 03:59 PM
he is a gun owner who (i assume) hasn't had a ND or otherwise brought negative publicity to RKBA. i think we should probably refrain from judging him.

read the Armed Citizen page in the monthly NRA publication, or go to another source of anecdotes of real people using weapons to protect themselves in real situations, and you will quickly see that many of them have very little or no training. in many cases in the real world, simply having a firearm gets the job done. certainly, that won't always be the case, but i don't feel it's my place to judge the millions of gun owners who are more like your friend than the average THR member.

BigO01
October 14, 2009, 04:35 PM
but he wont and his reason was because he needs it if someone breaks in.

Your friend pretty much answered your question you just don't seem to want to accept it .

Fact is the majority of criminals are theives in one form or the other and completely non violent and if they had enough brains they would be stealing your money while wearing suits worth more than you favorite 1911 and driving a car worth more than your house ALA Bernie Madoff and people are well aware of it .

Doesn't much matter if your a trained high speed killer straight from the battle field or a little old lady shaking like a leafe on a tree from fright as she pulls the trigger your average punk doesn't want to take the chance of being shot with anything any way any how and will run like a scalled dog at the sight of a gun or even a verbal threat that you have one .

Same reason most burglars will avoid homes with dogs getting bit isn't going to be the highlight of their day from any breed of dog .

It's all a numbers game and your friend is playing the odds and chances are he'll live the rest of his life and never need that gun for the reason he owns it just as every single member of the gun boards wont need theirs .

boostedxt
October 14, 2009, 06:52 PM
the bandit...want some of my famous cookies?

I ask him because he is a friend and I want a friend to be safe and have the ability to defend themselves. If i ask and he says no fine, but if I dont ask...i would never know.

joe

Schofield3
October 14, 2009, 07:00 PM
For collectors, the "deadly weapon" aspect of firearms is of little concern, though many do shoot and practice. Mostly, though, gun collectors no more consider their guns as weapons than coin collectors consider their collections as pocket change.

I like this bit ^

Vern Humphrey
October 14, 2009, 07:14 PM
Why do people buy guns?

Because the manufacturers don't give them away for free, of course!:D

CJ
October 14, 2009, 07:32 PM
For all too many, because Hollywood shows how easy they are to use, like a magic talisman that will get you out of trouble.

Ironically, this is also the same reason for the desire to ban guns. And why people complain that the police shot someone when they 'could have just shot the gun out of his hands'.

jpatterson
October 14, 2009, 08:52 PM
Jim Keenan Others buy them the way they might buy a fire extinguisher, just in case of some vague need sometime in the future. Since a threat is not considered seriously, the gun owner will not think seriously about the gun as a means of defense. Your friend is that kind.

That reminds me, I need to check my fire extinguisher! :evil:

Big Bill
October 14, 2009, 09:00 PM
Zorro... Shaun ConneryDon't you mean Sir Anthony Hopkins? How could anyone make that mistake? :)

NMGonzo
October 14, 2009, 11:23 PM
Because I want them.

Magnumdood
October 14, 2009, 11:28 PM
Because I want to.

2nd 41
October 14, 2009, 11:41 PM
I have a friend that has few revolvers in his house... For.. just in case.
He has no interest in shooting them at a range. He has no interest in guns.
I suggested he go to a range once a year to stay in touch. Never happens.
His revolvers are for self defense ONLY. Can't argue with that.

Me...I bought one for self defense. I owned a business and was held up. I went to a range to learn how to use it in a safe and legal dwelling. To this day I still enjoy informal plinking. Picked up a hand gun for the first time in 1981.

I do stress to any of my Non Shooting friends that own a gun...please learn how it functions. Understand it 100%. Especially a semi.

GLOOB
October 15, 2009, 01:32 AM
No one is born with the ability to ride a bike. But once it's learned it's there for good.

EVERYONE is born with the ability to grasp things, point them, and to pull a trigger. It doesn't take a lot of training to remember how to do that. The main thing to learn is safe gun handling. That might take a little more than 5 minutes, but it certainly doesn't take constant training. Once you know it, you know it.

Your friend knows what recoil and noise level to expect. He has a reasonable knowledge of how accurately he can shoot at a given distance. And most importantly, he now trusts the gun to function reliably. That's good enough for a lot of people, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Even though he doesn't enjoy shooting for fun, he prefers to exercise his right to own a firearm and to protect himself. Good for him.

How many people that carry a knife ever practice knife-fighting? How many people regularly practice pepperspray marksmanship? OK, how many of you single guys have been carrying around the same, unused condom in your wallet for the past year? :)

General Geoff
October 15, 2009, 01:48 AM
To folks like the OP's friend, the gun literally IS just a tool, like a fire extinguisher or a power drill. There's nothing wrong with that. He's ostensibly put a mag or two of ammo through it, and loaded up the rest of the box of WWB in it and keeps it in his bedroom drawer.

That's perfectly fine. He's not looking to become an IDPA top ranking shooter or anything, he just wants something to help in case of a home invasion. It's simply not a priority to him, to practice monthly with it or whatever. Again, nothing wrong with that. He's better prepared than half the folks out there.

The Gunman
October 15, 2009, 02:31 AM
He has no clue as to how it works or how to fix it should it break. My theory is that if you have a gun for home defense you need to be excellent at many things......even in the dark. Shooting with each hand, loading, fixing jams, moving while shooting, kneeling, laying prone, everything. If you arent at least good at those its probably more dangerous to have a gun than it is to not have one.

Please take this as an observation and not as a personal attack, after all, you asked our opinions.

That sounds almost like the argument used against carry laws. You seem to indicate that if someone is not at expert at armed defense they should not be allowed to have a firearm.

As far as how it works or how to fix it, how many people drive cars that are not ASE certified mechanics?

A person doesn't need to be a gunsmith to operate a firearm, although I do believe anyone who has a firearm should be competent in handling it safely and that includes operations like loading and unloading. Heck, most people couldn't explain how a microwave oven works or how to fix one.

If I may make a suggestion, when you go to shoot offer to take him along. (Sounds like you have.) You might even suggest cleaning and maintenance or offer to help as a concern for his safety.

Blunt honest observation, it sounds like you really like the gun and are upset he won't sell it to you. On the other hand, you may be like me and feel sick to your stomach to see good firearms being treated like an old shovel rusting away in the shed.

Homerboy
October 15, 2009, 07:47 AM
Well, I totally diasagree with a person owning a gun and not at least devoting enough time (2-300 rounds a year) to become proficient with it.

Guns are not fire extinguishers. They are a lethal weapon that, if used by untrained hands, can seriously injure or kill a person. I wouldn't have such a problem with it if it was strictly a range gun, but anybody who buys a gun for protection, and then doesn't take the time to learn to use it, is irresponsbile. God forbid he has to use that gun for protection. Even experienced shooters have a horrible hit ratio in real life and death situations. Now you have some guy who barely knows which end of the gun is the dangerous end trying to use it? Bullets go through walls. Can't even tell you how many times I have seen somebody buy a gun, ask how many rounds go in the clip, where is the safety (usually on a Glock), and why does the slide stay back when I am empty? They are accidents waiting to happen. Does your friend even know that the gun is still loaded and capable of firing with the mag out? A good friend of mine has a gun for the last 5 years, and he did not know that when I picked it up to inspect it for him the last time I saw him. he left the mag out of the gun but the bullet chambered "in case his son ever found the gun, he can't fire it". Not to mention the dust unnies that fell out of it when I removed the slide.

donato
October 15, 2009, 08:26 AM
I own a handgun mostly because I like to go to the range and shoot - used to be on a pistol team. Secondly, they do serve as a home defense measure. My long guns were purchased for the purpose of hunting.

edSky
October 15, 2009, 10:56 AM
I think it is a combination of many things. You have some you like, and like to shoot, but don't want to "wear them out." Then you want some of different calibers (and you need to double up since you don't want to wear them out, either). Then there are different barrel lengths, manufacturers, applications, features (bobtails?), etc.

And we haven't even gotten out of the 1911-types yet!

Fire-extinguishers? Bought one the first day I christened my man-cave (reloading bench).

boostedxt
October 15, 2009, 04:16 PM
Please take this as an observation and not as a personal attack, after all, you asked our opinions.

That sounds almost like the argument used against carry laws. You seem to indicate that if someone is not at expert at armed defense they should not be allowed to have a firearm.

As far as how it works or how to fix it, how many people drive cars that are not ASE certified mechanics?

A person doesn't need to be a gunsmith to operate a firearm, although I do believe anyone who has a firearm should be competent in handling it safely and that includes operations like loading and unloading. Heck, most people couldn't explain how a microwave oven works or how to fix one.

If I may make a suggestion, when you go to shoot offer to take him along. (Sounds like you have.) You might even suggest cleaning and maintenance or offer to help as a concern for his safety.

Blunt honest observation, it sounds like you really like the gun and are upset he won't sell it to you. On the other hand, you may be like me and feel sick to your stomach to see good firearms being treated like an old shovel rusting away in the shed.

none taken...:) I like didnt opinions and am 100% open to them.

Here is the thing. If i wanted to have the gun...I would just go and buy one just like his.:)

However...there is a difference between knowing how to fix a car with major mechanical issues and being able to change a tire. He has no clue really how the gun works. My issues is this....when we went shooting if the gun jammed he handed it me. Instead of learning how to fix it, which I showed him how, he just didnt care. THAT is my problem. Yes he has a gun which might make him feel safe....but is he? Experienced shooters miss their target under pressure..what does that mean for an inexperienced shooter?

my issue is this...having shot with him he is NOT competent and the only way for him to become competent is to practice.


joe

ChCx2744
October 15, 2009, 06:50 PM
I don't know if this question has been asked yet, and if it has, I apologize, but...What kind of gun is it?

mesinge2
October 15, 2009, 07:25 PM
gun collectors no more consider their guns as weapons than coin collectors consider their collections as pocket change

Jim Keenan, I really like this statement.

The Gunman
October 16, 2009, 10:01 AM
boostedxt-
He has no clue really how the gun works. My issues is this....when we went shooting if the gun jammed he handed it me. Instead of learning how to fix it, which I showed him how, he just didnt care.


Then we are in agreement for sure!


Sounds like a lack of ambition on his part. You might express to him the need to safely handle and operate the weapon. Just keep in mind he may not have the same passion for firearms you do.

Sorry, when I read your original post, I had just gotten done with the "technical" stuff in the gunsmithing section of the forum. When you mentioned knowledge of how it works I was thinking a bit more complicated. I was reading "how it works" and "how to fix it" and thinking "complete dis assembly and repair"...wow.:o

Ed Ames
October 16, 2009, 12:50 PM
OTOH, his behavior (handing the jammed gun over instead of fixing it, etc) could easily be a reaction to you.

I know several people who do that type of thing specifically to shut down or mess with "over enthusiastic" people. They might be very computer savvy (build their own computers, work with 3+ operating systems, etc) but they play totally disinterested around "enthusiasts", right up to the point of letting someone else deal with issues, specifically because they don't want all conversations to turn to computers. Same deal with cars... I know people who have done significant work on their cars, are interested in cars, but don't want all conversations to turn into motorhead posturing sessions so they play dumb. I've even seen it with guns.

Your friend could be doing that with you and guns. He may have decided that if he shows too much interest you will never talk about anything else.

Just a thought.

boostedxt
October 16, 2009, 04:25 PM
OTOH, his behavior (handing the jammed gun over instead of fixing it, etc) could easily be a reaction to you.

I know several people who do that type of thing specifically to shut down or mess with "over enthusiastic" people. They might be very computer savvy (build their own computers, work with 3+ operating systems, etc) but they play totally disinterested around "enthusiasts", right up to the point of letting someone else deal with issues, specifically because they don't want all conversations to turn to computers. Same deal with cars... I know people who have done significant work on their cars, are interested in cars, but don't want all conversations to turn into motorhead posturing sessions so they play dumb. I've even seen it with guns.

Your friend could be doing that with you and guns. He may have decided that if he shows too much interest you will never talk about anything else.

when the gun jammed I stayed back and watched. I wanted to see how he would handle it. I am an instructor and teacher, not with firearms, so I enjoy watching how someone reacts to something and then instruct them on the good and bad of their actions.

he has never once mentioned the gun...besides wanting to buy one and go shoot it andhave it for HD. I helped him, then thats where Gun talk has ended.:)

joe

Shadow 7D
October 16, 2009, 05:33 PM
You might want to offer him a trade for an alarm system (you pay installation or first year or so) and a good dog, and point out how much more useful they could be without the "danger" of having a loaded gun around.

Ed Ames
October 16, 2009, 05:44 PM
The only good reason I can see for disarming someone (including convincing them to trade gun for alarm) is if you intend to rob them. If you don't plan to take advantage of their disarmed state why are you so eager to disarm them?

aprayinbear
October 16, 2009, 06:45 PM
I have no problem with somebody stashing a gun away in the nightstand for self-defense. That's a reasonable choice. But if that guy (or gal) isn't proficient with safe firing and use of that gun, then they become a danger to themselves and to others. And that should never happen. I sure respect dealers that won't sell until they have thoroughly demonstrated to the customer how to properly use the firearm they are buying. And if someone didn't have the time to learn, then I have no problem with saying "no gun for you." We do it with drivers licenses, why not with firearms?

Case in point.... years ago, as an adult, I delivered newspapers from my car to make a little extra $$. That means I was on the streets and alleyways every morning around 3 a.m. One morning a police officer pulled up in front of me while another pulled up behind me. The guy in front jumped out of his car, crouched down behind his car door, pulled his weapon, pointed it straight at me and yelled " Get the &%^$# out of the car with your hands up." All the while I was praying, "I hope he knows how to use his gun!" I knew I was just a few pounds of fingertip pressure away from being shot! Fortunately he realized who I was, lowered his gun, jumped in the car and sped away. I couldn't help but ask myself, "what would of happened if he wasn't properly trained. Or what about your friend if he approached the milkman (who he thought was a thief) squeezing that trigger for all his life.

My response.... Training and practise and nothing less if you plan to own a gun. By the way I love to shoot, own several guns and learned how to shoot at an NRA club for kids when I was 11. The lessons are still fresh.:rolleyes:

Shadow 7D
October 16, 2009, 06:53 PM
I meant it more sarcastically, as that is the antigun line, Sorry I should have expanded that.

f4t9r
October 16, 2009, 07:00 PM
I know a guy who bought a pistol in 38spl just so he had something to protect his family if needed. He did shoot some back years ago but has not used the gun for many years. The big reason is he has the right to own a firearm.

Vern Humphrey
October 16, 2009, 07:02 PM
I have no problem with somebody stashing a gun away in the nightstand for self-defense. That's a reasonable choice. But if that guy (or gal) isn't proficient with safe firing and use of that gun, then they become a danger to themselves and to others.
Statistics say otherwise. Just this week I posted the latest national accident statistics (which are a few years behind -- takes a while, I suppose to collect and check the data) which indicates there are less than 800 fatal firearms accidents annually in a nation of 300 million.

Ed Ames
October 16, 2009, 07:23 PM
That story about being a paperboy and getting assaulted doesn't seem to fit in this thread. If anybody does that you have a responsibility to stop them. At the very least you should've been on the phone to the state police saying that people in what looked like cop cars are driving around pointing guns at people and then driving off before they can be identified.

It certainly has nothing to do with the level of training or skill and knowledge needed to safely keep a gun in your home.

rogertc1
October 16, 2009, 07:26 PM
Collecting guns has been a 40 year obsession of mine. Need less to say I have a lot and have not fired over 3/4 of them nor desire to. I have plenty to shoot yet I have many older firearms too. Example is I just got a Jap Type 26 revolver cause it was so darn interesting and because I didn't have one. I like the mechanics and history of firearms. Also have 6 cars n trucks too and I can only drive one at a time.

surfinUSA
October 17, 2009, 11:34 AM
There are alot more gun owners than shooters. Especially when there is a violent crime spike in their city.

Most of these folks would probably be best served whith a 38/357 revolver with a 3-4 inch barrel from S&W, Colt or Ruger. Just as many or the new breed of PO that wouldn't carry a gun if they didn't have to.

But are surprisingly able to protect themselves when a threat prevents itself. Even though they only shoot once a year when they have to qualify and probably clean their gun only after an inspection and are ordered to do so , and then do a mediocore job.

The nice thing about revolvers and DAO semis is you only have to recognize the threat, whixh is usually at close range get the gun out. Natural pointing abilty and a healthy does of luck is what saves these people.

Dannix
October 17, 2009, 12:34 PM
With no hard data, I would imagine most "fire extinguisher type" gun owners own shotguns. imho not all that hard to use a pump shotgun in an HD situation, esp. if they were the kind that grew up with bb guns at their grandparents or some such.


To the OP - do you have a fire extinguisher? When was the last time you tried to put out a fire with one? How long did it take to put out? Was it just a small pan fire (= range shooting) or a real, serious fire (= proper firearm training)? I don't think you are properly considering the risk to your family caused by fires. Fires kill more people than home intruders do. ;)

I have a fire extinguisher in the pantry...I think. I haven't seen it for about 15 years, but I'm sure it's still back there somewhere, covered in dust. I find it hard to slight someone treating a "just in case" HD gun the same way, though, true, you can't smother an intruder with a semi-auto the way you can a fire with an auto full mag dump of a fire extinguisher. The apathy wouldn't be such an issue it was a ww2 surplus tommy/sten/mp40 by the night stand. :D

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