[BlayGlock]

I mean with all of these monster deer running around wearing Kevlar the .44 mag is probably anemic. You need at least a .454 or even better a .480 ruger.

Sarcasm off.

I needed to rant a minute. I just bought a new .357 mag to hunt whitetail with for a little more challenge. I have been doing some reloading research and I keep coming across these asinine hand gunning threads were people are like "no way dude, a .44 mag is the bare minimum for whitetail."

Is this sentiment borne simply from lack of experience?

I’ll agree with them that yes, the .44 mag is more powerful than the .357. But is it better for hunting whitetail? It depends on what you mean by better. I chose the .357 mag for a number of reasons such as: economy, controllability in a lightweight gun, more reloading experience with the cartridge, and I found a platform that I really liked. I can shoot it well. I’m confident with it to 40 yards or so which will be the maximum distance I take a shot.

The caliber is only as “marginal” as the hunter.

[MCgunner]

Two have fallen to my Blackhawk and one to my Rossi carbine. We have baby deer down here, though. They aren't the 1500 lbers they have up in Kansas. :rolleyes:

[Ben Shepherd]

I can shoot it well. I’m confident with it to 40 yards or so which will be the maximum distance I take a shot.


With a correct slug and the parameters you've laid out, nothing wrong with your choice at all.

[schlockinz]

I wouldn't worry, just make your shot count, like you should with any gun.

[NMGonzo]

.45 acp ... I want to see that!

[shaggy430]

Up until a few years ago, you couldn't hunt with a .357 magnum in TN. Now you can.

[Ben Shepherd]

Good point-

Are there any specific laws in your area? I know here in Utah deer with a handgun reqires a 4" barrel, and a minimum of 500 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy. A full snort 357 makes that cut.

[wyohome]

Up until a few years ago, you couldn't hunt with a .357 magnum in TN.

It is still illegal in Wyoming.

[schlockinz]

Looks like legally you should be fine in TX (no mention of limiting centerfire cartridges, all rimfires not allowed)

[qajaq59]

If you can't drop a deer with a .357 then a lot of them must die from fright when someone tries because they are usually dead. LOL

[stiab]

I keep coming across these asinine hand gunning threads were people are like "no way dude, a .44 mag is the bare minimum for whitetail
Are you sure? I read a lot of hunting and shooting forums and have never heard or seen that opinion expressed. Can you post some links? I'd like to read them.

[jpatterson]

I planned on taking my 66 out and trying to take a deer with it this season. Seems I may need to bring all of my speedloaders and some EXTREME SHOCK ammo ;)

All serious though, I don't see why it wouldn't be sufficient.

[steveracer]

Killed many with handguns over the years.
I think Stephen Camp (hipowersandhandguns.com) shot and killed one with a 9mm HiPower with one round. This is not really that surprising.
My mom kills them cleanly with a T/C single shot pistol in .357 with 158 Grain JSPs. Works every time.
I shot them with my carry piece before. .45ACP from a Commander, and a S&W 4516. You have to get a good shot, but the round works fine.
Didn't Elmer Kieth shoot African big game with a pre-model 27? (And a russian spy sattelite with a .44 special?)

[MichiganShootist]

I took an eight point that weighed 200 pounds field dressed..... with a Glock 21 loaded with Federal JHP Hydra-shock .45 ACPs. I shot him out of a tree stand at under 50 feet. The bullet went through one lung and the heart. The deer ran about 80 feet before dropping in his tracks.

IMO pistol hunting is more like bow hunting... it's all about patience and shot placement.

[wyohome]

The deer ran about 80 feet before dropping in his tracks

How far does he have to run to not drop in his tracks? ;)

[ArfinGreebly]

Whitetail? Of course not. Bison, on the other hand, are just push-overs.

Not long after I joined THR I was jawing with the folks at a local gun shoppe in Reno (Silver State Arms).

Fella walks in carrying two 8.5x11 sheets of computer paper and a grin the size of a small canyon.

Evidently, he had some kind of running bet with Joe (who hunts Africa whenever he can).

I came over to see what the fuss was all about.

Fella's son was home from Iraq for the month, and they'd been elk & bison hunting on a ranch in Utah. He had two photos from that hunt, enlarged to full page and printed out.

First photo is his son, buzz cut and all, taking a knee with his .308 and the elk he'd just shot. Nice trophy.

The other photo was taken by the son and showed this fella kneeling by a full-grown bison. No rifle. It took me a moment to grasp what I was seeing: he was holding a 4-inch S&W 686, and wearing that same canyon-grin.

We all had to know the particulars (like he was gonna keep any of that a secret). I'm not clear on whether he left his rifle in the truck on purpose, but when the herd showed up, all he had was the sidearm.

Hard cast lead, 70 yards (or 71, according to him), through-and-through, with the buffalo trotting about ten yards to collapse.

Hard to argue with a photo. Ever since I began relating this story I've kicked myself for not getting at least a Xerox of that picture.

However, that photo and that conversation helped me make up my mind for my next rifle. I had been eyeballing a Marlin 1894C in .357 and wondering if it could close the deal on deer-sized game. I reckon if a .357 from a 4-inch barrel can do a bison, that same round from a 20-inch barrel can do deer.

I should call Joe. Maybe, even after three years, he can hook me up with a copy of that picture.

[BlayGlock]

Come to think of it I did hear about Elmer Keith shooting down a Russian spy satellite with his .44 spc. :p

Stiab, I certainly did not mean to imply that everyone felt this way, but there were more than enough post about how anemic the .357 mag was. Actually the post that pushed me over the edge was some guy posting that even standard pressure .45 long colt loads were insuffecient :what:

[HGUNHNTR]

The majority of Nebraska whitetails I have taken have been with a Taurus Model 66 in .357 magnum, and an HK USP Tactical (permanently modified mag to ensure legality in NE) in 45 ACP with handloads.

Both have worked exceptionally well when I do my part.

[usmc1371]

The guides I hunted with in Idaho for bear have killed more bears with 357 pistol or rifle than most of us will ever see. I asked them why the 357 not a 44 or big bore pistol and all they said was "well we been using 357 forever and it works so why change now... shoot straight and they die just fine''.

I am sure if it will work good for black bear it should be just fine for white tail.

[SlamFire1]

Up until a few years ago, you couldn't hunt with a .357 magnum in TN. Now you can

It may be due to the state trying to get hunters out in the woods. I understand that in Tennesse, they now let Bubba shoot while seated in a 4 wheeler.

[chas08]

How far does he have to run to not drop in his tracks?

I guess he could die in mid-leap, or in canyon country mid-fall. Or would that be considered dropped in mid-drop. :D ;)
I've killed a couple of hogs with mine but no deer....yet.

[Arkansas Paul]

I would agree that a .44 Magnum would be better for deer, but that's not to say that a .357 wouldn't get the job done. There have been way too many killed with the round to say that. As has been said before, more limitations lie with the shooter than the firearm.

[Kernel]

I shot him out of a tree stand....
What was a deer doing in your treestand?:neener:

Where I hunt (Southern Iowa) the big corn fed bucks can run 300 lbs plus. Given a choice between a .44 Mag and .357, I’d take the .44 Mag any day. If someone was looking to buy a new handgun for deer hunting and was asking for a recommendation, again, I’d recommend the .44 Mag.

However, with that said, if you want to use a .357 it’s more than adequate. You might want to consider using a 180 gr bullet. I used a scoped 6” S&W 686 for one deer season (1996 IIRC). Didn’t fill my tag that season, so I never got to test it. The next year I traded that 686 for a Ruger SBH Hunter in .44 Magnum.

[41magsnub]

I know for a fact it works on a big MT Mule deer, but my example is not what you are looking for..... medium sized muley doe walking past me oblivious to my presence and I shot it in the eye at executioner distance with a 4" security six.

[stiab]

Stiab, I certainly did not mean to imply that everyone felt this way, but there were more than enough post about how anemic the .357 mag was.
You and I must be reading different forums!

[GodGuns&Guitars]

I"ve shot quite a few Arkansas whitetails with a 357mag. Then converted up to the 44 mag for a few years, then tried it with a 1911 in 45acp. If you know what you are doing, it is possible and a lot more fun and challenging than shooting one with a scoped rifle while he/she eats corn under a feeder.

[TehK1w1]

I saw a deer that was killed with a single heart shot from a 9mm luger a while back.
If a 357 mag is so deadly on humans, why would it not be considered enough for deer, which are as a general rule smaller(around here) and wear less clothing :p

[RDA 226sig]

My uncle has a "trophy" ten point he claimes he took with a 22lr revolver many, many years ago. It was a Key deer so you can discount for size as you desire but it is more a matter of shot placement than choice of weapons. While I don't recommend a 22lr revolver to hunt deer I certainly think a well placed shot from a 357 magnum will do fine.

Having said that, I will stick with my 454 because I like the noise.:D

[buck460XVR]

I had killed several deer with my 686 before I started to lurk on these gun forums and read how undergunned I was. But then, I still use a recurve instead of a compound also. A tool is only as good as the hands that use it.

[RE-15]

any cal. will work with correct shot placement and range consideration. 9mm has taken two medium doe for me. Both shots had exit holes that provided the nessasary blood loss to die. At 15 to 20 yd. what more do you need? I've used .44 mag, 9mm, .357 and 100gr. muzzy's at close range with the same result.... a dead deer.

[JohnKSa]

A friend of mine who passed away a few years ago used to hunt with a .357Mag levergun when he was in very wooded areas. The first time he used it, he reported to me that he was surprised at how well it worked.

[blackops]

I shot him out of a tree stand at under 50 feet. IMO pistol hunting is more like bow hunting... it's all about patience and shot placement.


Pistol hunting is nothing like bow hunting, as a matter of fact some of the earliest arrow heads ever found have been identified to be around 60,000 years old. IMO sitting in a tree stand and shooting a deer with any kind of firearm is about as challenging as feeding candy to a 5 year old.

[Art Eatman]

blackops, sounds like you never had a five-year-old kid. :D While I have stalked to within ten feet of an unsuspecting buck, in general it's the case that with short-range weapons, an ambush is the most effective method.

Per the archaeologists, the bow did not get invented in North America until around 1600 BC or later. Prior to that, it was spears and atlatls. Few actual arrow heads are more than an inch to 1.5 inches long. Anything longer (and thus heavier) is a dart or spear point.

[JShirley]

Didn't Elmer Kieth shoot African big game with a pre-model 27? (And a russian spy sattelite with a .44 special?)

Steveracer for the win. :D

Anything that can put a hole all the way through a deer will work just fine. A lot comes down to skill level: something that may work fine for an expert hunter may not be well advised for a neophyte. Years ago in Alabama, we hunted with some very skilled hunters that favored the .222! :eek:

John

[jbkebert]

I shot a large doe last year with a .357. I used a Fiocci factory load that was topped with a 158 gr XTP. I had to follow up with two more shots to finish the job. First shot was taken at around 12 yards and was a solid neck shot. The recovered bullet which I still have barley expanded. I really don't have alot of faith in the .357 mag for deer hunting anymore. :(

[scythefwd]

jbkebert, That neckshot... did it hit the spine? IF it didn't, then shot placement was to blame on that instead of the bullet or the caliber. Where were your other two shots? A good heart, heart/lung, or double lung shot will put the deer down just as effectively as a rifle but you might have to do some tracking. Then again, I have seen deer go off after a 30-06 took out both lungs as well so there is always a chance you will need to track.

[jbkebert]

My first shot did miss the spine and its my own fault for not providing a quick kill. THe other shots where lung and heart the second shot sealed the deal the third just to end it quickly. I am not blaming my poor shot on the .357 be any means. As solid as a deer neck is muscle wise that bullet should of shown more expansion. It did not shoot to low and just hit throat the wound channle was small with I would say little damage to surrounding tissue. The XTP is a great bullet so I am told. Maybe I need to find a diffrent load.

So no the .357 is not to blame for me missing my mark. However I was not impressed with bullet performance and or tissue damge.

[BBQLS1]

No reason it wouldn't be good on whitetail with a good bullet.

[Ben Shepherd]

Jbkebert: The shot most advised with a hangun round is to use a tough slug(like the XTP) broadside through the shoulder and into the boiler room. It takes a tough slug to get through the shoulder and into the vitals. But as you noted, it doesn't blow the meat all to kingdom come on the way in, and it usually expands well while passing through the shoulder hitting the boiler room opened up.

If it's a tough enough slug(personally I use HCSWCs from Oregon trail or cast performance) it will most times continue through the off side shoulder as well. This generally anchors the animal.

If I were to purposefully try a neck shot(not advisable), I'd choose a slug that expands more readily(like a Remington 180JHP), and at that point avoid a shoulder shot due to possible lack of penetration.

EDIT: Fiocchi loads hot, so that round should have plenty of steam behind it, just put it in a little better spot next time.;)

[hardluk1]

I have used a DW 357 with a 8" barrel and red dot for 33 years ,on and off for hunting deer but have killed many hogs with it. I use heavy bullets, 160 and up to 180. Hogs get 180 gr hardcast. and deer get barns from federal or Buffalo bore's heavy hot loads. This gun will shoot 3" groups at hundred yards and will kill out to that range but darn I need a great rest beyound 30 yards anymore.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Pistol hunting is nothing like bow hunting

Yes, actually, for all practical intents and purposes, it has many similarities.


as a matter of fact some of the earliest arrow heads ever found have been identified to be around 60,000 years old.

So what? What's that got to do with anything? It doesn't change the fact that the effective range of a bow and a handgun are roughly the same - well at least a defensive-style handgun (not an encore/striker/xp100). And when the range is the same, the non-shooting skill (woodsmanship skill) need to also be equal.


IMO sitting in a tree stand and shooting a deer with any kind of firearm is about as challenging as feeding candy to a 5 year old.

And which one of these things have you done?
-Shooting a deer with a rifle?
-Shooting a deer with a handgun?
-Shooting a deer with a bow?


I can tell you that shooting one with a bow IS a *little* more challenging than a handgun because you have to move your body to draw. But it's still a lot harder than shooting one with a rifle, treestand or not. And shooting one with a rifle is by no means easy, tree stand or not. I would even submit that the difference in additional woodsmanship skill needed between to go from a rifle to a defensive handgun is greater than the difference in skill needed to go from a handgun to a bow (albeit not by much).

My 5 year old nephew will take candy EVERY time I give it to him (well, ok, he's 6 now).

But I and many other people do NOT get a deer every time they step in the woods with a license and a firearm to TRY to do this; not even close. So the fact is that you're wrong.

And by the way, Indians got into trees too, to hunt deer - this is not anything new.

[ColeK]

Of course you can kill deer with a .357 Mag and I might add it can be done with a .38 Special. I've killed them with both.
All you got to do is use good bullets and limit your range.
But I prefer a .44 Special.

[glockgod]

It's a good thing my grandparents didn't know a .22 wouldn't kill a hog or beef or they'd a starved to death!! It aint about caliber-it's about range and shot placement!

[sbdunc12]

I find this discussion interesting. I have never really considered the minimum caliber for whitetail. I have always carried my 9mm and have killed two cull bucks with it from 20 and 35 yards. It is not my first choice of hunting weapon, but it was on hand at the right time. Both deer dropped right where they stood with cheap ball ammo.

[BlayGlock]

There is plenty of good discussion. I was lamenting some of the stupid comments that one runs across on hunting forums. Here is a forum where the 2nd poster says that a .44 mag is the minimum for anything over groundhogs.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284518

[azyogi]

I figure if you can kill it with a bow it can be killed with the lowly [ for the sarcasm impaired this is sarcasm] .357. Hey didn't Fred Bear kill both a polar bear and an elephant with a bow. Question is how long does it get to step/chew on you before it dies. Maybe the ones that say I wouldn't use a .357 for that know what kind of a marksman would be involved. For the record Fred's Elephant took 3 steps and went to it's knees. The polar Bear went 5 steps.

[schlockinz]

About to say, the damage that a bow does is completely different than what a fire arm does.

Longest I've had a deer run on a bow shot was 20 yds, and that was because of a poor shot placement. I've had double lunged rifle shots go much farther than that.

[HB]

About to say, the damage that a bow does is completely different than what a fire arm does.
Well, a rifle and a bow at least. I'd say handguns and bows kill by poking a big enough hole to let blood out. Rifles tend to turn organs to mush.

HB

[rhoggman]

Longest I've had a deer run on a bow shot was 20 yds, and that was because of a poor shot placement. I've had double lunged rifle shots go much farther than that.

I just arrowed a small doe yesterday w/ a rage 3 blade broad head. Had complete pass through, hit both lungs, and cut through the wall of the heart.

She ran 65 yards.

I'm not sure what you are doing that is so magical, but I would like to know. I'm tired of blowing through the heart and the lungs and not getting 20 yard lay downs.

[Friendly, Don't Fire!]

I say if the deer is going to BOLT (run as fast as it can), then unless you hit the brain or the spinal cord, the deer will RUN, even without a heart!
Yes, it will collapse when the brain stops working with the blood removed, but that could be a distance away, as deer RUN FAST, in fact they run VERY FAST!

In several seconds (count five seconds) and picture a deer running through the woods. There, 65 yards, easily!

Now, if the deer was just going to stand there wondering what that noise was all about, then in four to five seconds it will drop where you shot it!

I blew the heart out of a coyote on two occasions. Fist-size hole where the heart was. Both times the coyotes turned and ran. One ran about 70 feet, the other one about 20 feet. Both completely without a heart.

[schlockinz]

All my deer have just bedded after running into some brush, haven't gotten a bolter yet.

As for the difference in killing, I was talking about blunt force trauma (non-expanding bullet) vs the cutting action of a broadhead. Just shoot a weaving of rubber bands with a bullet and a broadhead, that should be similar to how a bullet will act on blood vessels vs a broadhead

[lefteyedom]

Back when the earth was still flat. Many poor folks in Mississippi put venison on the table with a 22 rifles. At hog killing time it was a single shot from a 22 rifle that got the day started.

I am not saying that a 22LR is a preferred whitetail load. I am saying that it does not take nearly the power that gun writers would have you believe to kill a deer. Anybody want to compare a 25/20 to a 357? Yet many many deer have been killed for meat with the old 25/20.

[DeepSouth]

As I have been reading this thread I couldn't help but think of my 3rd cousin that killed a whitetail with his BB gun.:what: And I guess it was legal after all a BB gun isn't a rim fire.LOL

[BlayGlock]

That is one hell of a bb gun...

[DeepSouth]

It was just shot a bunch of times.........Deer had his back legs hung in a barbed wire fence, the boy was like 8 years old.

[rhoggman]

It was just shot a bunch of times.........Deer had his back legs hung in a barbed wire fence, the boy was like 8 years old.

That sounds like a terrible death for a deer. I hunt, but I'm not sure I would want to watch that go down.

A good clean kill makes me feel good.... Shooting a "trapped" deer repeadedly with a BB gun is just sad. Not saying anything about you, apparently it was not you that did that, but that is just plain wrong. Then again if it were all I had I guess it would have to do. Just seems very irresponsible to dispatch a large animal with anything that takes multiple attempts. I realize large animals do not usually die on the spot, but a good shot with an appropriate bow, or rifle should do the trick within a couple of minutes at the most. Usually this process is very quick.

I'm not some great hunter or extraordinary marksmen; however, your ideal shot is a killer. I'm talking about the kind of shot that results in death usually within 15-20 seconds.

I just shot a doe that literally was running dead. Both lungs, and heart were all punctured. She ran like a bat out of hell for approx 15 seconds if that. That 15 seconds was about 65 yards, but she was literally done the second she was hit.

I could not disrespect a living creature by torturing it to death with a BB gun. :banghead:

[mes228]

I personally know of two people that have killed black bear with a .357 magnum. Both were game Wardens. One in Virginia, one in Wyoming. If you'll do a little research you'll find the .357 magnum has taken EVERY BIG GAME ANIMAL ON EARTH (not shouting, just wanted to emphasize that factoid). Including Elephant and Cape Buffalo. I've killed deer with a .22 magnum revolver in my youth. I suspect a .357 would do handily if the round was placed correctly. The Virginia Game warden killed the bear with one shot to the head. The Wyoming Game Warden came home with both hands full of grocery bags. Only to find a black bear on the porch really, really, wanted them. Three rounds (I think that's the round count) from a snub nosed S&W .357 in the chest, killed that bear dead right there.

[AKElroy]

There is no way a .357 mag will take a whitetail.

Of course it won't. An arrow will, though; so will a hand thrown spear. Stone aged man could kill them with a sling, or even a well thrown rock. But a .357 mag? I hardly think so. A .30-30 won't kill them anymore either. It used to, but not anymore.

[AKElroy]

from a snub nosed S&W .357 in the chest, killed that bear dead right there.

Not possible; you need to read my last post. For bear, some people foolishly carried .44 mags into the woods. No where NEAR enough gun, so we needed the .454 Casull. Of course we now know dear can't be killed by either of those anymore, so now we have the .500 S&W. It may be enough, at least for awhile.

[DeepSouth]

That sounds like a terrible death for a deer. I hunt, but I'm not sure I would want to watch that go down.

A good clean kill makes me feel good.... Shooting a "trapped" deer repeadedly with a BB gun is just sad. Not saying anything about you, apparently it was not you that did that, but that is just plain wrong. Then again if it were all I had I guess it would have to do. Just seems very irresponsible to dispatch a large animal with anything that takes multiple attempts. I realize large animals do not usually die on the spot, but a good shot with an appropriate bow, or rifle should do the trick within a couple of minutes at the most. Usually this process is very quick.

I'm not some great hunter or extraordinary marksmen; however, your ideal shot is a killer. I'm talking about the kind of shot that results in death usually within 15-20 seconds.

I just shot a doe that literally was running dead. Both lungs, and heart were all punctured. She ran like a bat out of hell for approx 15 seconds if that. That 15 seconds was about 65 yards, but she was literally done the second she was hit.

I could not disrespect a living creature by torturing it to death with a BB gun.

I completely agree.

I don't remember his age but he was around 6 or 8 best I remember, so I don't hold it against him too bad, after all my judgement when I was younger was poor as well.

[fourdollarbill]

DeepSouth, I too tried to kill a deer with a BB gun. I was as serious as the day was long. 5 yrs old I was on the back patio and about 300 yards away I saw a deer eating in the corn field. I racked my red ryder and started shooting. After about 20 shots I went back into the house and grabbed a pillow off the couch and used it as a prone rest. I don't remember how many more shots I took but the deer started walking away and I was getting mad. Then all of a sudden I was lifted up in the air by a big set of hands and I got my ass beat for having the couch cushion laying half in the mud. I'm pretty sure the deer got away that time.

[Ed Harris]

In my experience, within 50 yards, with factory 158-grain magnum ammunition or good .357 handloads with proper bullets, such as Hornady XTP, I've noted no meaningful difference in game killing performance between the .357 Magnum in my Marlin 1894 and the .30-30 with factory loads from my 94 Winchester, except that the Marlin is more accurate. About a dozen deer taken with the .357 over the last 25 years. If I gave you one shot with each to dress and butcher you'd not be able to tell the difference. Key to remember with both is that the hind end of a deer is to eat and not to shoot.

[BlayGlock]

AKElroy is right, deer are just tougher these days I guess which is why we need bigger handguns.

[millertyme]

whitetails aren't even that big. even a big whitetail isn't all that big. my motto is "if you can kill a man with it, you can kill a deer with it." Echoing the sentiments others have posted, even a 22lr, if placed correctly, will kill a whitetail.

[Daveboone]

I stopped carrying a .357 (or any handgun...I had and shot a .44 mag that ruled!!)only after comparing accuracy expectations of rifle to handgun. I tweek my rifle and loads to make the absolute smallest margin of error, but would allow a very good handgun group at 50 feet that would be considered horrible from a rifle. It dont make sense. If I am serious about the sport and making as clean a kill as possible as a priority, I will use the instrument most able to the task. (boy, I am sure this will stir the fires...)

[natman]

Where exactly did anyone say you can't kill a deer with a 357? I don't think there's any doubt that it's possible to inflict a fatal wound with one.

It's also possible to inflict a non-fatal wound with one, with a higher probability of doing so than with more powerful cartridges, which is why it's not a good choice for deer. However, that's not the same thing as saying you can't kill one with it.

[kanook]

I stopped carrying a .357 (or any handgun...I had and shot a .44 mag that ruled!!)only after comparing accuracy expectations of rifle to handgun. I tweek my rifle and loads to make the absolute smallest margin of error, but would allow a very good handgun group at 50 feet that would be considered horrible from a rifle. It dont make sense. If I am serious about the sport and making as clean a kill as possible as a priority, I will use the instrument most able to the task. (boy, I am sure this will stir the fires...) Althought the 357mag is mostly used in a handgun, some of us use it in a rifle. I'm sure you will now agree the the 357mag will work on deer.

[T.R.]

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/357MAGelk-1.jpg

When hunting big game with a 357 MAG, you should limit your shots to archery distances. Say, 40 yards or so. Keep shooting until the animal topples over.

This cow elk weighed approx 550 lbs. But two well placed 158 hollow tip bullets got the job done.

TR

[stiab]

Where exactly did anyone say you can't kill a deer with a 357?
I agree, and in the first page or two of this thread requested the OP to tell us exactly where someone said that, post a link, etc. He responded, but did not reveal where it was said. I continue to have my doubts.

[22-rimfire]

I generally believe the 357 mag in a revolver is a bit light for deer hunting. The power difference when you step up to either a 41 mag or 44 mag is substantial. The whole purpose is the shoot the deer within the kill zone and have it die quickly and the 40 caliber+ magnums do the job pretty well.

This is not to say that a 357 mag revolver can't be used for deer hunting. I just believe you're better off choosing something with a bit more power. As long as you think in terms of archery hunting ranges, you're probably okay with the 357 with good shot placement.

[BlayGlock]

Natman, I disagree that it is not a good choice. It is perfectly fine wthin 50 yards or so.

Stiab, I find it very hard to believe that you have been reading all these forums and have never run across a people sharing that sentiment.

[natman]

Natman, I disagree that it is not a good choice. It is perfectly fine wthin 50 yards or so.

Stiab, I find it very hard to believe that you have been reading all these forums and have never run across a people sharing that sentiment.

I guess it depends on your definition of "good choice". As you say, it will work within 50 yards. I would say if the presentation is perfect and everything goes well. The more conditions you have to apply to using the cartridge the less attractive it is.

Personally I like to allow for the possibility of needing a bit more margin for error than a 357 revolver allows, even while I do everything I can to eliminate the need for that margin. I like a bullet that expands and penetrates enough to exit and leaves a nice big hole in its wake, even on some of the tougher shots. I just don't see the point in using something in the 357 power range when there are so many better choices. And no, I don't consider actual good choices like a 6.5x55 Swedish, 7mm-08, 257 Roberts, etc. to be a "cannon".

I have never heard anyone say that you can't kill a deer with x cartridge, nor that deer are armor plated, nor that they are now tougher than they were back in the day. I have heard lots of guys use these as straw man arguments when they are trying to justify using some underpowered cartridge.

The hunt should be the challenge. The shot should be as sure and easy as possible.

[stiab]

Stiab, I find it very hard to believe that you have been reading all these forums and have never run across a people sharing that sentiment.
If it is so hard to believe, then surely you can post a link to a thread where someone says there is no way that the .357 magnum is appropriate to kill a deer. According to some, those type of threads are common. Can you direct us to one or more of them?

[BlayGlock]

Here you go pal, some of the stuff Ive run across recently:

http://www.deerhuntersclub.com/forums/handgun-hunting/3750-what-do.html

http://www.technohunter.com/hit%20em%20hard.html

It is not an exhaustive list by any means but maybe it will assuage your curiosity?

[natman]

Here you go pal, some of the stuff Ive run across recently:

http://www.deerhuntersclub.com/forums/handgun-hunting/3750-what-do.html

http://www.technohunter.com/hit%20em%20hard.html

It is not an exhaustive list by any means but maybe it will assuage your curiosity?

Let me repeat some of the quotes from these links:

"I think a 357 would be very marginal for deer sized animals."

"I also think the .357 is a little weak for animals the size of Deer "

"In my hard earned opinion, the .357 Magnum is NOT ADEQUATE for reliably taking deer. "

Marginal. A little weak. Not adequate for RELIABLY taking deer. None of these authors has said that you CAN'T KILL a deer with a 357, nor that the bullet will bounce off, nor that deer are now armor plated. What this means is that while it is certainly possible to kill a deer with a 357, the odds of only wounding it are unacceptably high.

This is commonly misinterpreted to mean that you can't kill a deer with a 357, which results in answers attempting to prove you can. While those answers are true, they are answering the wrong question.

[BlayGlock]

And I disagree with the entire premise that a .357 mag cannot reliably take a deer or is not adequate. The hunter is the one who is "marginal" if this is the case.

In the original post I was simply poking fun. Some folks immediatly got that, and they seemed to understand where I was coming from (like AKElroy).

[ghoster]

been droping deer in ohio with a blackhawk since dad bought it when i was 10.
48 now and just bought a 460:eek: guess they just wernt dead enough.:p

actually i want to shoot on out to 150 yd as we have a lot of feilds to hunt and i want to try moose with a handgun and thought that with their plesant disposition i should use a little more gun.:evil:

[Nevertoomanyguns]

Don't you know deer are getting stronger and stronger every year and require more powerful cartridges every passing season? My primary hunting rifle is a M94 30-30 win. and it has done the job every time I let the hammer fall. I also carry a 6" 686 with hand loaded 180gr. cast performance bullets. I have yet to take a buck with the .357 but that’s only because every time a buck comes into range I grab my dang rifle instead of my revolver. I am going to try and change that this year. My Uncle on the other hand has shot one buck with his 6" Colt python with Remington 158gr. jacketed soft points. He shot it at about 30 yards right through the boiler room buck jump three times and dropped. That buck ended up being a 10pt. that dressed out at 224 pounds. So it will kill big bodied bucks too.

By the way I have read these post on a lot of forums too. They either say the .357 is marginal at best or it is way too under powered and you need to use a .44mag at a bare minimum. I think for the most part most shooters can shoot a .357 more accurately without flinching than they can a .44mag. so why not use a gun that you shoot accurately and still have the power to take that buck down? I also own a SBH hunter in .44mag, I love this gun but the 686 carries nicer.

[stiab]

It is not an exhaustive list by any means but maybe it will assuage your curiosity?
No, I still have not seen the threads you claimed. I am now convinced that you have not seen them either.

[Nevertoomanyguns]

Just type in hunting with a .357mag handgun, or deer hunting with a handgun in your browser's search and then read all the links and you will get a general taste that most posters push people away from the .357 towards a .44mag or larger. It also seems that posters expect the deer to drop in their tracks every time, isn't following a blood trail part of the hunt? If you poke a hole through the vitals they will die. Plus, any shot through the vitals with a bullet or broadhead, no matter how far they run before they die is a hell of a lot quicker and a more humane death then dieing from claw and fang or Mother Nature!

[natman]

It also seems that posters expect the deer to drop in their tracks every time, isn't following a blood trail part of the hunt?

I don't expect them to drop in their tracks every time, I just feel obligated to do everything I can to make it happen. And while following a blood trail is an obligation if you wound one, I do everything I can to avoid having to.

[BlayGlock]

Stiab, i posted a few links for you. Also, look at nevertoomanyguns post. I cant help you if you are going to continue being purposefully thick.

[Nevertoomanyguns]

How does following a blood trail mean that you wounded a deer? I have been fortunate enough that all of my deer have died within sight. My father shot a big 260 pound field dressed buck a couple of years ago with a .308 win, the bullet passed through both lungs, and yet the deer still went about 80 yards, and this is not a wounding shot? I also don't aim for the heart because I love eating the heart, and a double lung shot kills them quick enough.

[HarleyFixer]

I had killed several deer with my 686 before I started to lurk on these gun forums and read how undergunned I was.

Me too. I prefer 180gr softpoint.

[meadmkr]

Years ago I took a nice 4pt mulie with my Dan Wesson 6" .357 I was 20 feet up slowly climbing up to my treestand when he came crashing through a clearing and stopped on the trail practically right under me and was looking back in the direction he came from. There was NO WAY I was gonna be able to unsling & load yet alone shoot a 7mmMag while braced with climbing spikes & a safety rope yet alone without him hearing/seeing me. So I drew my pistol and dropped him with a downward shot through the spine (between the shoulders) using a 158g cast bullet. He literally fell with legs splayed out as if a ton of bricks had been dropped onto his back.
Turns out another hunter in our group was stalking him and up until he heard the gunshot but couldn't figure out what type of gun was fired (so he came up to see). Like others said its all about shot placement (and a heck of a lotta luck in being at the right place at the right time). I knew a number of other guys who shot mettalic silhouette in the early 80s (mostly using either TC Contenders or 6"-8" barrels) with various calibers and a number had taken deer with them.

Cheers
Chris in VA

[stiab]

Stiab, i posted a few links for you.
No you didn't post a few, you posted two, neither of which contained wording any where close to your initial claim of "There is no way a .357 mag will take a whitetail." You could just admit that you wanted to start a topic on this subject and had to invent some anti-.357 propaganda to get it going.

[williamd]

One fell to my Ruger semi 22rf pistol. bout 20 short paces looking right at me. I was not there to hunt WT, was sitting against a tree eating an apple and watching for squirrles, but had the tag so just popped him between the eyes and he fell like a haybale! I am sure the 357 would perform as well! ;)

[BlayGlock]

Stiab, You are right. It was a vast conspiracy that Elvis, some aliens, and myself dreamed up to trick everyone. But you are so clever that you figured it out. And we would have gotten away with it too if it werent for you meddling kids.:rolleyes:

[Art Eatman]

An' 4 pages are enuf...