Explanation of 922r compliance. Lawyers?


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cbrgator
October 15, 2009, 01:42 AM
Let me preface by saying that I understand what 922r compliance means. I know that the foreign parts count must be 10 or less, etc. etc.

I don't want to know WHAT 922r compliance is, but WHY it applies (to guns like AK's and converted Saiga's).

In reading through 922r, and following the citations from statute to statute, I do not see why an AK-47 or a converted Saiga are subject to 922r. Is there anyone out there who truly understands it that can explain this to me? Lawyers maybe? Thanks.

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Mr_Rogers
October 15, 2009, 12:00 PM
The importation of military type firearms is restricted by federal law. Some dealers tried to get smart by breaking down the guns, importing the "parts", and then reassembling the guns for sale in an attempt to get around the restrictions. The law was modified to prevent this trick - hence the restriction on the number of foreign made parts in a non-approved imported firearm. Unfortunately, the way the rule was interpreted means it applies to a much broader range of imported firearms than it was initially intended to cover.

What it boils down to is that if your firearm is modified from its approved importation specification you could now be subject to the conditions of 922r. Leave the gun as approved for importation and you are OK. Modify an approved firearm in certain regulated ways, or build a firearm from parts, and you are subject to 922r. This restriction prevents you from making a true copy of a restricted firearm from spare parts.

cbrgator
October 15, 2009, 12:11 PM
I understand that. But I read 922r and the statutes it cites. I don't see where an AK47 or converted Saiga is a restricted firearm. It defines what is prohibited and I don't see how the 2 guns I listed fall under that definition.

justashooter in pa
October 15, 2009, 12:35 PM
before 922r came into play, in 1989 the fed.gov enacted an importation ban on complete rifles in "AW" configuration. the prevention of importation was intended to fix the numbers in country and to drive prices up on existing weps so that they would be found in the hands of collectors, rather than gang-bangers. this import ban is the only reason my NIB polytech legend milled AK is worth $1500+.

922r was enacted later, again, to prevent an increase in the number of military style "assault weapons" with "evil features" in the USA. it applies to all semi-automatic rifles with detatchable magazine and two or more evil features (pistol grip, bayo lug, flash hider, grenade launcher). thi legislation was spurred by the sudden flood of com-bloc and nato weps made available for cutting into parts kits as a result of a massive wave of weapons inventory reductions and platform changes that occured in the 90's across europe.

what 922r didn't account for was good old american ingenuity.

there was no "US parts" industry at the time, so the writers of the law thought they could effectively prohibit the increase in the number of such guns in the USA by banning the assembly of surplus parts kits with more than 10 foreign parts.

american ingenuity triumphed, and compliance parts appeared on the scene. hundreds of thousands of FAL and AK platform weps etc were legally assembled in the years following the enactment of 922r.

the price of compliance parts did add to the total cost of the guns, but not much for a homebuilder. i can recall building an AMD65 pistol on a tapco flat for a total cost of $75 in september 2004 right after the AWB expired. until mid 2007 an AW could be built more cheaply than it could be bought, before or after the importation ban.

then some A-hole who shall remain namelsss (but happens to be writing this little history) developed and published a bend it yourself AK flat jig and drove the ATF over the edge. then he showed the homebuilding community that they were not required to serialise their builds. that drove the ATF completely mad. the resultant deal killer was a refusal after 2006 to approve importation of complete kits. now barrels are demilled as well. so, back to that ingenuity thing...

cbrgator
October 15, 2009, 12:54 PM
I still would like to see the statute that says of the type of prohibited firearms that 922r speaks to. I keep being told that it says it, but nobody can show me where. I just want to see the statutory language for myself.

922(r) prohibits assembly of guns which are prohibited under 925(d)(3).

925(d)(3) prohibits guns that fall within the definition of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and is generally not recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

Section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 defines a firearm as The term ''firearm'' means (1) a shotgun having a barrel or
barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (2) a weapon made from a
shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less
than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in
length; (3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16
inches in length; (4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as
modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel
or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (5) any other weapon,
as defined in subsection (e); (6) a machinegun; (7) any silencer
(as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and
(8) a destructive device.

And here is the "any other weapon" of subsection (e)

(e) Any other weapon
The term ''any other weapon'' means any weapon or device capable
of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be
discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver
having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a
fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle
barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from
which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel
without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which
may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a
pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or
weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder
and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

SO, I don't see where this speaks to an AK47 and makes it subject to 922r. I am sure I am missing something, can someone help me out.

justashooter in pa
October 15, 2009, 01:41 PM
{ http://www.922r.com/ }

178.39 otherwise known as 922(r) 10 Foreign parts law on semiauto Rifles & Shotguns)

Sec. 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of Sec. 178.151; or

(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.

(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

__________________________________________________ _________________________

{ http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....2.1.1&idno=27 }

Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
PART 478—COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION
Subpart B—Definitions
§ 478.11 Meaning of terms:

defines any gun converted to a non-sporting semi-auto with features as described on the following list which defines the term "assault weapon:

Semiautomatic assault weapon. (a) Any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as:

(1) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models),

(2) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil,

(3) Beretta Ar70 (SC–70),

(4) Colt AR–15,

(5) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC,

(6) SWD M–10, M–11, M–11/9, and M–12,

(7) Steyr AUG,

(8) INTRATEC TEC–9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22, and

(9) Revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;

(b) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of—

(1) A folding or telescoping stock,

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon,

(3) A bayonet mount,

(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor, and

(5) A grenade launcher;

(c) A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of—

(1) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip,

(2) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer,

(3) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned,

(4) A manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded, and

(5) A semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; and

(d) A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of—

(1) A folding or telescoping stock,

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon,

(3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds, and

(4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine.

BTR
October 15, 2009, 04:08 PM
There is nothing written down in the "law" that specifically says a semi-auto ak or similar military style gun is unsporting. The law says unsporting guns are banned, and does not define "unsporting". It is up to the agency to invent their own definition of "unsporting."

The BATFE has made up some stupid criteria to determine if a gun is sporting or unsporting, and applies those- ie, no pistol grip, can't take hicap mags, no folding stock, no bayo lugs, etc.

They can change these criteria any time they want.

During the good old days of Reagan, folding stocks, lugs, etc were sporting. Bush I's agency decided they were not.

Clinton's agency decided that anything that took an assault rifle magazine was unsporting- hence importing AKs with single stack mags.

cbrgator
October 15, 2009, 04:49 PM
So we don't really know what is considered sporting? The ATF hasn't told us? We're supposed to guess?

cbrgator
October 16, 2009, 10:42 AM
Anyone?

Sam1911
October 16, 2009, 11:22 AM
The short answer is that it's muddy and the ATF changes their mind occasionally. You can always write the tech branch for a ruling which would protect you for the particular build you want to do. Unfortunately, the rulings aren't always applied as broadly or consistently as you might hope. Ask again on a different day, about a different gun, or with very minor changes and the answer may be different.

And, from what I've read, their rulings are not binding in perpetuity. If they do change their mind and tell you that your build now violates their rules, your gun could become contraband.

For the questions you're asking, the ATF has ruled on what they allow and what they don't. You're pretty safe if you stick to the formulas that are now well known (on AKs, SKSs, and such). In fact, legal builds of MOST battle rifles and carbines (and even semi-auto versions of crew-served machine guns) have been hashed out already, and you can find the info on how the ATF will allow you to do them pretty easily on line. If you find something very unique or want to try something very new it would be wise to get approval (in writing) of exactly what you want to do.

-Sam

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