[mesinge2]

I was on Midway ordering ammo, and I saw .357 Maximum under the .357 Magnum ammo selection.

I am unfamiliar with this caliber and I was curious about it.

What companies produce firearms in this caliber, historical information, intend purpose, etc.

Mods, sorry if this is the wrong area. I did not know where to place this thread.

[Gryffydd]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=.357+Maximum
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=hTu&q=.357+maximum+site%3Athehighroad.org&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

[Friendly, Don't Fire!]

It was a 10" barrel (maybe others) Ruger Single Action Revolver. A very close relative owned one. It was like a souped up, hot-rod .357 Magnum on Steroids. I used to reload for it.

[Friendly, Don't Fire!]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=.357+Maximum
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=hTu&q=.357+maximum+site%3Athehighroad.org&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
I liked that Google link!

I'll have to remember that!

[orvpark]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_Remington_Maximum

[mesinge2]

Thanks, everyone.

Now another gun as been added to my list, I want one of those blackhawks.

[Larry Ashcraft]

We were shooting handgun silhouettes in the early 80s when it was developed. It was supposed to allow more velocity with 180 grain bullets, so it would have the knockdown power of the 44 Magnum with a little less recoil. It was quite popular at the time.

THR moderator Dr.Rob has a couple of the revolvers and they are quite nice shooters.

Moving this to revolvers.

[HOME DEPOT GEORGE]

Dan Wesson made the 357 Supermag I picked this up a few years ago http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm51/homedepotgeorge/DSCN0919.jpg

[mesinge2]

Maybe, that Dan Wesson instead of the blackhawk.

That's a beautiful piece.

[unspellable]

The Wikipedia article perpetuates some of the misinformation about this cartridge.

Originally Elgin Gates developed a wildcat called the 357 SuperMag for the silhouette game. The intent was to launch a heavy for caliber bullet in the 180 to 200 grain range at velocities equal to or a tad faster than the 357 Magnum would launch a 148 grain bullet. This the cartridge did very well and began to enjoy some popularity.

Ruger and Remington decided to go commercial with it, and as is so often the case when the biggies take a wildcat commercial they had to fix what wasn't broke. Ruger did not want to make the revolver frame window long enough to accommodate the 357 SuperMag. They went for hyper velocities with a not so heavy bullet. Elgin told them they were heading for trouble. Throw in a poor choice of powder and the 357 Maximum frame erosion fiasco was born.

Meanwhile Dan Wesson chambered for the actual 357 SuperMag (Not withstanding that the barrel shroud is marked 357 Maximum.)

Ruger recalled the 357 Maximum, never gave it a chance with a decent load. Meanwhile all the Dan Wesson shooters were having a grand time with the steel rams and no erosion problems.

While the 357 Maximum will not do what the 357 SuperMag was intended to do and does, (The SuperMag has an extra 0.125 inch of powder room with heavy bullets.) it's not a bad cartridge in its own right with decent loads.

The difference is less pronounced in single shot pistols as the single shot guys tend to seat the bullet out farther, blurring the difference. But in a revolver you have to observe the maximum OAL or you cannot turn the cylinder. A 357 SuperMag will not chamber in the Blackhawk.

The 357 Maximum and the 357 SuperMag are two different cartridges, the Maximum being a shortened version of the SuperMag which came first.

[Dr.Rob]

Dan Wesson, Ruger and Thompson Center (single shot) all made .357 Maximums, though the DW 'supermag' is apparently slightly longer.

See this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=418168&highlight=357+maximum

I carried an 8 inch Dan Wesson hunting, though I never got to fire it in anger it is certainly capable of taking big game like elk. If I recall our handloads were clocked at 1800fps or more with a 158 or 180 gr bullet. Damn thing gets downrange before you feel the recoil. But a BIG word of warning they DO have considerable flash/blow-by at the cylinder gap so DON'T get your hand anywhere NEAR the front of the cylinder when shooting.

Thing is for all the fun they are they are expensive to shoot if you don't reload, and this has kept the price down on the revolvers--which are really too big to use for anything other than hunting/range. You can shoot .357 magnum and 38 Special out of a Maximum, but I can't see why you would.

Old Western Scrounger and Outdoor Marksman carry small batch makers ammo. Federal and Remington haven't made factory ammo for it in a long time though Remington and Starline still make brass for it.

ALL of them will 'flame cut' but the erosion only goes so far and stops. This is exaggerated by shooting very light high velocity loads (IE don't load 125/110gr bullets and try to make them go 2000fps+).


I'll add some pics to illustrate:

.357 Maximum 180 gr JHP, .357 Magnum 158 gr JHP, .38 Special 130gr FMJ

10 inch Ruger Super Blackhawk, 6 and 8 inch Dan Wesson Supermags all in 357 Maximum.

[MMCSRET]

TC chambered their Contender barrels in the caliber, great shooters.

[madcratebuilder]

ALL of them will 'flame cut' but the erosion only goes so far and stops. This is exaggerated by shooting very light high velocity loads (IE don't load 125/110gr bullets and try to make them go 2000fps+).

The flame cutting well give you an idea on how much it's been fired. It does not go deep enough to cause a problem, although it can look bad. I pointed out the cutting on the supermag I bought, that and the drilled and tapped shroud got me a substantial discount for the seller.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/supermag01.jpg

[Ben Shepherd]

I have one of the Ruger blackhawks in 357 max. Getting 158-180 slugs at or above 1800 is no trouble. But, as already noted, they do have considerable flash/blast. In fact, when you hear one fired, the velocity of the slug is such that they have the sharp crack usually associated with rifles rather than the dull boom associated with handguns.

As a sidenote: Should you find a blackhawk in 357 maximum, don't, under ANY circumstances, send it back to ruger for repairs should it ever need them. Due to the topstrap cutting issue(which ISN'T an issue if you keep your slug weights at or above 140 grains) they are officially recalled. Ruger will not send the gun back to you.

[AH-1]

:) they also made a run on 24" barrels for the encore.thats smoking hot for the max.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/DSCF2575.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/DSCF2578.jpg

[Dr.Rob]

I have always felt Marlin should have made a lever gun in .357 Max.

[jw johnson]

I have two ruger blackhawk maximums, one in 7.5 and one in 10.5. I have a red dot on the 10.5 and shoot it with 180 grain bullets and a med charge of 4227 powder. Very accurate. It shows almost no signs of strap cutting, less that my .44 anyway. It is accurate and does well at some of the local gun club shoots. The 7.5 is like new in the original box. Both are nice revolvers and draw a bit of attention.

[Peter M. Eick]

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/357maxes.jpg

I love the max. It is a great round and has been one of my favorites for several years. You can toss 158's easily into the 1600 fps range and beyond and get 180's to 1500 with out trying too hard. I am on a 180 grn lead kick right now and will move to 200 grn lead when I can find them.

To me the maxes have enough kick to be interesting but not punishing. I also find they are everything I want in the way of accuracy.

[BlkHawk73]

I was on Midway ordering ammo, and I saw .357 Maximum under the .357 Magnum ammo selection.

I am unfamiliar with this caliber and I was curious about it.

.357 mag and .357 max = same caliber

caliber ≠ cartridge



Have a Handi Rifle and a Ruger SRM in the max chambering. Will add another Ruger sooner or later and possibly something for this cartridge as well. Great cartridge!

[salvo]

Here is my .357 SuperMag

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/Dan%20Wesson/DanWesson740-1.jpg

[DWFan]

I would appreciate it if someone that's getting 1800 fps with a 180gr bullet in a .357 Maximum Blackhawk would PM me with their recipe.
Ben Shepard is correct; the Ruger Maximum Blackhawk is a recall weapon and will not be returned if you send it in for any repairs. Strange however that some of these "seized" (as I call it) revolvers did manage to find their way into certain gunsmith's shops and wound up in bigger calibers.
If you just want a Maximum revolver, get the Blackhawk. If you want one that's better, get a Seville. If you really want a shooter, get the Dan Wesson. The Dan Wesson will shoot groups some .35 caliber rifles can't duplicate. One inch to one and a half inch at 100 yards is typical with the right loads. Reeds Ammo is an excellent source of ammunition for these revolvers.

[NCsmitty]

I shot my T. Contender 10" 357 Maximum last friday. It it a great cartridge for deer and I have harvested one with the Contender in years past. Recoil is a bit less than the 44 Mag and it shoots flatter than the 44.
180 gr single shot pistol bullet is very accurate and hits hard.



NCsmitty

[snooperman]

Were made in thar caliber and were all the rage back around 1980, when I was shooting Silhouette matches. Also makes an excellent hunting gun as well, especially on deer and wild hogs.

[stealth]

Oh boy, I hear an Encore or Contender calling my name. Certainly no flame cutting on those, lol.

Edit: Awe, I'm not finding anything current under T/C (via website) in Maximum. =(
Wondering were NCsmitty got his, jealous. =P

[Walkalong]

That TC is sweet. I have no desire to fire the Max in a revolver. :p

[Ben Shepherd]

DWFan- recipe no, but this will have you going "Aw, nuts." http://shop.reedsammo.com/product.sc?productId=1630&categoryId=40

[Kernel]

Cool cartridge.

Link to a nice article on the .357 Maximum in the October 2007 Handloader magazine:

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/hl249partial1.pdf

[1911Tuner]

I always thought the .357 Maximum shoulda been chambered in a Trapper length levergun. It woulda been a great brush gun with 180 grain soft point bullets.

Heap big pig medicine in heavy cover.

[444]

I agree that it would be a great cartridge in a lever gun. However, the .357 Magnum does a very good job in a levergun. I was really surprised when I chronoed a bunch of my handgun loads out of a Marlin 1894C. Everybody knows that a rifle length barrel will give you better velocity than a handgun barrel but it has been my experience that it isn't always a real dramatic improvement: BUT in .357 it is a huge increase in velocity. The Maximum would of course only be better. I would wonder however if normal, jacketed .357 mag pistol bullets might come apart with the velocity of a Maximum rifle ?

[wad]

IIRC these things are a bit rare...but does anyone have a 357 Maximum ream? :evil:

http://www.battermans.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=40&category_id=10&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=10

[DWFan]

No "aw nuts" here, Ben Shepard...that velocity is from a 12" T/C Contender barrel...not a revolver.
wad, Pacific Tool & Die and Clymers both have .357 Maximum reamers. Mike Bellm has a special reamer for Contender barrels. This cartridge is also very popular for H&R single-shot rifles.
I agree that a .357 Maximum levergun would be awesome plus one could be rebarreled for the Maximum wildcats in .224, .257, 6mm, 7mm and .308.

[Kernel]

Another excellent article on loading the .357 Maximum. This time by J. C. Munnell in the May-June 1984 issue of Handloader magazine:

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/hl109partial.pdf

Who writes:

"... My first reaction to the cartridge when it was announced was that it was an answer to a question no one had asked. Who needs another round which barely equals the .44 Magnum? This prejudgment was reinforced when I discovered that published velocities were definitely not taken from a revolver. However, with proper handloads, muzzle energies in the 1,200 to 1,250 foot-pound class can be achieved even with a 4-5/8-inch barrel. Contrary to (mostly old) published data, there just ain’t no .44 Mag. revolver in the world which will do that. Couple this with the flatter trajectory and better penetrating abilities of the longer, heavier 357 inch bullet and you have a definite winner."

[DWFan]

444, you'd be right in that some .357 handgun bullets can't handle the velocity of the Maximum in a revolver, much less a rifle. Present philosophy is the use of cast bullets, the Hornady SSP and bullets meant for the .35 Remington. (Mike Bellm talks about the Hornady XTP-HP and Remington SJHP on his website.) The Maximum can reach 2200 fps with the Hornady SSP in a rifle length barrel. http://357maximum.com/ Compare that to .35 Remington ballistics. Now if someone would simply lengthen the action of an 1892 copy levergun........
Kernel, I have been looking for that article for a longgggggggg time, but couldn't remember the magazine or the author. It points out nicely why the Ruger was a failure where the Dan Wesson and Seville were successful. Thanks.

[MCgunner]

Contenders never had forcing cone erosion or flame cutting problems, but I'll keep my .30-30 for deer. :D It's neat, though. .38, .357, and the Max can be fired in it.