[MT GUNNY]

At the beginning of this year, I (by my own idiocy) had a large bill to pay. If it wasn't for my collection of Firearms, I would not only be broke but in the hole.

That situation got me to thinking about investing in Gold and Silver or even firearms. Because of the price of those choices, silver would be my beginning option.

So, would "firearms" rise in value IF the dollar fell to nothing? I'm thinking they would for a few reasons.

1: More people would want to be able to protect there assets.
2: More people would want to protect there family.
3: Demand Would be high.
4: Those with many firearms would sell them for Food and gold and silver, Bartering.

I understand that a used one with lots of rounds would go for less than a NIB or slightly used. Another thing to consider would be known "reliable" firearms.

Any thoughts!

[wvshooter]

My guess is the best hedge aginst hyper inflation of any currency is always going to be gold. Diamonds as well, but they aren't the perfect exchange medium like gold is. Guns? Guns have a lot of the same properties as gold and diamonds when it comes to having intrinsic value. I'd lots rather have a hundred thousand in guns than the same amount in three or four collectible cars.

[CWL]

Doesn't make sense. You are assuming that we will be hit with hyperinflation. This comes from a failed society with no trading value. Might be true for the nations of Africa or So. America, but not so for the United States. Since interest rates are at an all-time low, jobs are scarce and most people are afraid to spend money, you aren't going to get any inflation.

Gold, silver, other precious metals are more useful because you can break down the amount into usable units. So a loaf of bread or a tank of gas might be traded for some silver or gold, but how do you get change back for a .38 revolver?

Seriously, if you are only thinking about beginning to do this, you are already one year+ late since stocks have already creeped back to their pre-crash values. Anything you attempt to do now only means that you will pay a premium for firearms.

You'd do better for yourself if you fully-funded your 401K, Roth IRA or SEP plan.

[GRIZ22]

I would agree gold or other precious metals a better investment than firearms. More liquid asset and even if you buy high it will get back up there someday.

[HOME DEPOT GEORGE]

With whats been said so far I'd like to add always keep your eyes open for deals,for instance I recently picked up an older model Colt Combat Commander for 450.00 in near mint condition. Deals like that are guaranteed investments and a friend of mine doing plumbing work for an older widow lady picked up a bring back Luger she wanted out of the house for 250.00.

[22-rimfire]

I think firearms are a poor investiment. They are not very liquid and it takes too much time to convert to cash at a fair market price. You might make a little money, but you can't depend on it.

Precious metals can be converted to cash pretty quickly if need be.

I would suggest you start buying a roll of silver dollars a month and a gold coin or two per year for diversity. Stocks are still the best thing going.

[mgkdrgn]

So, would "firearms" rise in value IF the dollar fell to nothing?

If the dollar does fall to "nothing", the last thing you will be doing is -selling- any guns or ammo.

[parisite]

Back 3 or 4 years ago I thought very seriously about buying two shipping crates of new SKS rifles just to hold on to.........Boy I wish I would have now.

I think a better investment now than firearms would be ammunition, especially in .223 and 7.62x39.

[Beelzy]

Siver coins...like Margan dollars, Mercury head dimes, Standing Liberty quarters.

That will be the new cash when paper goes up in smoke.

[Birdmang]

Thats a huge when...

[gunnie]

..."I think a better investment now than firearms would be ammunition, especially in .223 and 7.62x39."...

+1...would add 7.62x51, 5.54x39, 30-06, 9mm, 45 ACP....military calibers, new and old. you'd have to decide what may be in more demand for YOUR area. the preferences WILL change with location.

firearms prices are still at unsustainable level$. bad time to buy in at present.

high cap magazines for rifles might be a better bet at present. it's not like they will go down if a ban does not happen. much less security needed than firearms or ammo as they only fit one style of weapon for the most part. less maintainence and storage modifications required than weapons or ammo. no fire hazard considerations.

gold/precious metals are already at an all time high, also a bad time to invest there.

for actual "investments", firearms do well enough, though not yielding as much profit as conventional venues. but if you are considering a total SHTF scenario [as in all out depression] firearms will be worth as much as food, as a means to protect same. good luck trying to sell/barter with one that has no ammo, or spare mags in a semiauto wartoy format. at times such as that, stocks and bonds will be useless for many years of economic recovery that will follow.

if you want to buy into items for worst case scenario barter, firearms are only a small percentage of what would become high demand trading items.

pls see:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=231661

starting at posting #12, for first hand experience from post-catastrophic depression in Argentina. NOT A PRETTY PICTURE.....

gunnie

[bob.a]

Firearms are sort of blue chip items; they keep their value, but only seldom does the value rise in any spectacular way, and when it does, it's usually artificial, due to some govt regulation or threat thereof. All my firearms are worth more than when I bought them, but they are not going to finance my retirement. Still, nice to have.

I got a bunch of silver coins from my father recently. He used to own a restaurant and when the changeover to alloy coins went fdown, he and Mom would sort out the good stuff and put it into the safe. Now silver coins are worth around 12 times or more of their face value. Some are probably worth a lot more, to coin collectors, but I'm looking at the base price of silver, for coins that are suitable for melting down.

Nice thing about silver coins is their value (as silver) is easily known, and they're not too expensive. With a Krugerrand selling for about $1100, it's not something you want to carry around or try to spend after the crash, unless you're in the market for a big-ticket item. But with silver coins, you can do some shopping at reasonable price levels.

Now, I'm not expecting a major crash, but I'm hanging onto the coins (and guns) anyway. They don't take up too much room, and they're a comfort to me.

[NMGonzo]

I've lost money on guns.

Never lost money on gold.

[TEDDY]

you keep your gold if I want it I will kill you and take it.as to selling what do you think paper is worth.you will want food.so buy land.I have 90 acres.I can and do grow vegtables on it.and preserve them.I have deer on the land.
turkey,and rabbits and doves.as to gun value I bought lugers for $20 in 1945 and a win 73 for $5.they were worth the price I paid.now look what they are worth.gold is only worth what someone will pay.look at stocks they went down like a rock.can you buy food with gold.if money is worth nothing.
dream on.land man thats whats worth value.I have timber and crop land.
the city people will be all over looking for food.and if your not armed you will be crushed.

[Trebor]

I've lost money on stocks.

Never lost money on a gun.

YMMV.

[freakshow10mm]

The only way to defeat inflation is for the government to print less and spend less.

[gunnie]

inflation=money devaluation.

mel tappan wrote an interesting article on this subject, back in the mid/late 70's. the point that sticks in my brain to this day was his statement that near the begining of the 20th century, an ounce of gold was worth close to the price of a new colt "peacemaker" SAA. he stated it also was when the article was written, [and is still today]. the gold's worth has changed very little, except in demand peaks/valleys.

but for one who was trying to trade an ounce of gold for same colt, say during the height of the watts riots, ground zero in the DMZ? doubt your gold would do the trick. even IF you find find someone willing to trade, in a total breakdown of normal society function, what would you do to prove it was...

1 gold?
2 24k/specific purity?
3 solid?

gunnie

[bob.a]

Krugerrands are recognised pretty much worldwide. The advantage is that their gold content is standardised and known, they're minted, which makes any attempt to shave off some metal pretty obvious, and you can prove they're gold by weight. So on the whole, while not totally foolproof, it would take someone with a lot of talent and equipment to make a fake.

You'd be hard pressed to manage a trade in a free-fire zone, but I'm sure gold for firearms would be doable not too far away.

Also nice is that a 1 ounce coin is easily concealable on the body. Not a bad storehouse of value, really; easier to sell than diamonds, for example, portable, easily recognised. That's probably why it's been used that way for a few thousand years with some success.

[22-rimfire]

If precious metals interest you, use the dollar cost averaging approach and just keep buying at a regular pace regardless of the price. Stick with minted coins.

Ammunition is a reasonable commodity.

If things got really bad, there would be no money to buy firearms. You have what you have or can keep. I anticipate no fall of the government. Didn't happen during the Great Depression or the major recession in the 1890's.

A major natural catastrophe such as significant vulcanism in the west or earthquakes in the middle of the country could prove to be a long term test of the will of the American people.

[A-FIXER]

metal....... if the USA falls you'll be givin those firearms away to anyone will to help you stand in the darkness of Kaos as we fight for long lost REPUBLIC of once was.....

[wvshooter]

All this talk of gold reminded me of a book I read about the Pol Pot regime in Cambodia. People trying to flee the country, at least people who had resources, always relied on gold. There really is no substitute for gold or silver if "the dollar falls to nothing". I don't think anyone anticipates that happening to the US dollar but it has certainly happened to the currencies of other nations at different times.

[John Wayne]

Gold is a safer investment in that it is at least as valuable and much more of a liquid asset.

There are no laws that I know of regarding the transfer of gold to certain persons, and no fees required. It can also be divided up into smaller quantities much easier than selling a gun for parts :D

[huntsman]

Firearm Investments as protection from Inflation

The only concern I have is government.

We live in a time where owning specific guns could become illegal.

But on the other hand just looking at ammo prices it’s easy to believe things will never be cheaper than they were yesterday.

[gyvel]

you keep your gold if I want it I will kill you and take it.

Nice...:uhoh::what:

[NMGonzo]

Gunnie: I saw the Argentinean collapse coming already in 1999 and I moved out.

Guns are available to most people, but limited to calibers due the nature of the regulation.

[Rembrandt]

Ammunition & components are better investments than the guns......the short term panic in the last nine months has proven it so. Should things get worse, I could see primers and ammo double again. The only thing a gun owner can't make is rimfire ammo and primers....without those your gun is basically a wall hanger.

[Aw4g63]

In the event that our economic system falls apart and we revert to barter and trade, gold & silver will be meaning-less for a few years. Basic supplies (food, soap, etc) and firearms and ammo will be the hottest commodity.

I understand the system of weight and using it as a small denomination but I can't see myself trading a rifle for gold or silver. Yard tools and a small bit of gas for a generator would be worth more to me than a chunk of a shiny rock.

[Grey Morel]

The market is flooded with guns. Everyone and there brother got 2 ARs (and every other kind of gun) when Obama-man got elected. I watched the fudds stand in line and JUMP at the chance to spend $1,600 each on M14's. They were selling them like hot dogs at a baseball game; and most people were buying them on credit. Search the "for sale" forums on any major gun board, and see how people are swimming in guns they couldn't afford and cant get rid of.

Gold and silver are acting weird as well. For whatever reason, Silver is not emulating Gold as it historically has. It should be around $30 per ounce, but its only 1/2 that while Gold keeps going up.

The poop has already started trickling down the vent... Anyone who wasn't prepared before this all started is unlikely to get ahead.

[wally]

Investment grade firearms you basically can't shoot or you risk greatly reducing their value.

Owning gold or other precious commodities won't do you much good without guns and ammo to defend them.

We have a layered strategy. Stocks, bonds, money markets and our home for reasonably normal times, and a bunch of inflation indexed series I US savings bonds as a last resort. Plenty of guns and ammo for if the savings bonds become useless -- in which case any shootable gun will be valuable and ammo will be a great barter item.

--wally.

[Acera]

Gold almost never works, unless you sell it when it peaks. That is usually at the height of the scare, and few (except those comfortable/wealthy enough, and understand the trend) sell it then. Look at the history of gold in the past 30 years. In the 80's it peaked around 1/2 of what it is today. If you had any other investment that took 30 years to double, you would call it a dog, and dump it.

Now look at gun prices 30 years ago, most all have outperformed gold by a substantial margin. Don't even consider the Class III stuff you should have bought, that really outperformed everything!!

You have to have a market for gold. If society fails, like some here predict, that bar of gold or silver will not put food in your stomach unless you get rid of it. Without manufacturing and a economy that desires it, gold is as worthless as any other metal.

Weapons will be in demand. Most Americans are unarmed, according to the statistics. In time of crisis, there is your market.

Watch what happens when so many buy gold at this inflated price, and when the economy eases, they will have so much loss sitting in that box.

Remember the best investment strategy is not to buy high and sell low. That is what buying gold now will result in.

[CleverNickname]

In the 80's it peaked around 1/2 of what it is today.
When you factor inflation, this isn't true.

[22-rimfire]

Don't keep all your eggs in one basket. Holds true today as it has in the past.

Acera mentioned that you actually have to sell the gold.... ofcourse That is the concept behind coin silver; you would use it as money. Precious metal value is a world commodity valuation and is not dependant on a single country's currency. It is a universal currency.

[Acera]

When you factor inflation, this isn't true.

As CleverNickname pointed out, it is even a worse deal than what I posted. Just tried to keep it simple. After the crisis is over, gold prices will fall and people will be stuck with it.

[kda]

In the early stages of the collapse of our country and it's monetary system, I agree easily traded commodities (gold, silver etc.) will be useful. But in stage 2, when the have-nots take to the streets and start roaming neighborhoods looking for easy targets (sheep)... at that point weapons and ammo will have great value. Anyone with a spare weapon and/or spare ammunition, especially in common calibers will have a decided edge.

Judging from how quickly the streets fill up with looters and street gangs when American cities experience blackouts, I think we will get to stage 2 rather quickly. I'm not happy about this but am trying to be realistic based on what I see over and over again.

[TexasShooter59]

I recently was able to pay our bills with money from two guns I sold. Sold them for a little more than I paid for them.

[gunnie]

..."You'd be hard pressed to manage a trade in a free-fire zone, but I'm sure gold for firearms would be doable not too far away. "...

only picked riots as an example, because that is all WE, THE USA have to compare to. in a massive breakdown of police/military/govt control, the "not to far away" could be a life's worth of travel. in that case, finding some one who prefered gold to a working firearm would be considerably harder, and the means to verify the worth also.

that said, short of nuclear warfare, massive natural disaster, or world class disease pandemic, the likelihood of change that was so fast as to prevent cashing in gold ~when needed~ through traditional means is very unlikely.

gunnie

[bob.a]

I only mentioned gold and silver because it's likely that paper money will not hold its value. And of course I don't advocate selling everything you own in exchange for gold. It's just an easily recongisable and relatively valuable medium of exchange.

The poster who mentioned dollar cost averaging had it right. If you have surplus cash, exchange it on a regular basis for something that will hold value. Gold is nice that way.

I remember when Hong Kong was going back to China. Some of the wealthier folks were buying easily transportable stuff in case they had to leave in a hurry. The price of Stradivari violins went up big time. What else can you stuff into a 6 pound case and carry with you that is worth a million dollars?

Those folks weren't worried about carving out a freehold when the SHTF; they were ready to go to someplace civilised and carry on with their lifestyles.

I'm thankful that, so far, we've only had to worry about the occasional riot. FWIW, lots of my family perished in the 1918 influenza epidemic. Fortunately for me, my direct ancestors made it through.

[Flame Red]

Except for Class 3, and certain collectible firearms, gun are not a great investment mechanism. The Obomination could wipe out your investment with a few pen strokes - and I am sure he will try as soon as he finishes screwing up health care and providing amnesty to all the illegals to make everyone in the world a US citizen.

[Artiz]

I thought firearms were protection from danger that comes with inflation.

[Bluenote]

Hhhmmmmm. I see there is some discussion of the recent spike in firearms prices , I just spent a weekend touring every gun store in the immediate radius for about 75 miles from me , may have missed a couple but we went to 10 or 11.

Now admittedly that's a small sample , but based upon that observation it's Semi auto pistols and the "military" ( for lack of a better label) platform centerfire rifles that have gone up the most radically. And many of these place had a large stock of good used bolt action rifles and sporting shotguns.

ANd I got lucky , I made it through the weekend and only bought one , a very cherry late 70's Model 70 in 7mm mag with a Leopold Vari-x II that looks like it's had maybe a box through it ( the guy had 80 guns how much can it have been shot?) , some sweet trigger mods too. A couple of very minor dings in the stock but at least it's the walnut Monte Carlo so it's workable with. For 375$ I consider it to be an investment. Now after it gets a 27 inch stainless Shilen bull barrell ( fluted) and a Bell and Carlsen or Mcmillan stock it might not be.

Now ammunition on the other hand , stopped by a Wally World , they had three , that's right 3 boxes of ammo left , three lonely boxes of 7mm-08. It's a lot better at the actual gun shops as far as the more non mainstream ammo but prices are waaayyy up.

In pistols of course it's most all of them but 9mm ,.40, .45 acp lead the pack , the magnums aren't far behind and it seems the cowboy action folks are buying up all the .45 colt and .44 special , rifle of course it's .308 and .223 with the most severe shortage along with .22lr and 7.62 x 39, , then .30-06 , I didn't have any trouble finding a couple of boxes of factory ammo the run through the aforementioned Model 70 when I get it to the range.

No shortage whatsoever in things like .375 ultra mag and the more offbeat calibers , they even had the brass I needed for .257 roberts. And I'll likely go back and buy the used .375 ultra ,toying with the idea of it as a shorter range 250 yard and under larger game gun , quite likely with a good set of open sights since it would be geared towards bear country , for 549$ that was a good deal , there seems to be a lot of bargains in bolt guns if you get away from .308 and .30-06.

Some shortage in components , same factors as in the above and powder has gone through the roof , I'll just get it as usual from Midway , none of the stores seem to be carrying anything but a lb can.

[huntsman]

I thought firearms were protection from danger that comes with inflation.
I guess that's what everyone is trying to figure out.

I believe some guns will be and so will ammo.

But the real hedge from inflation is FOOD. Just buy lots and lots of Spaghetti-O's, cans of stew and TP.

[Chargersbee41]

Guns are like classic cars you will only get what someone is willing to pay for it.

[PhiloebeddoUSA]

Firearms will be a tool to protect your assets, nothing more. Ammunition will probably do extraordinarily well in times of extreme inflation. The core commodity costs involved in ammunition production would skyrocket. (Who knows what a controlling gov't would do as well with massive unemployment and great masses in poverty)

Other than a suitable amount of firearms and ammo :evil: , I would put my worthless faith based currency (nothing behind it) into real estate. Developed or undeveloped is not important. It's nice to have tangible assets (along with stocks and bonds). Diversification is the key. Nobody is big on real estate and that's one of the reasons you should be looking at it. +1 on avoiding the markets and commodities right now. Stocks have had their run (now we need topline growth) and commodities are extremely popular right now. (ditto the buy low sell high mantra).

Good luck to all of us. We're going to need it.:uhoh:

[Bluenote]

Still a lot of folks storing precious metals it seems , to each their own but in the case of a total societal collapse how much is gold *really* going to be worth , as goes ammunition it may well be the proverbial case of lead being worth more than gold.

And in a monetary system collapse barter will likely be the order of the day , now how much will 2lb cans of coffee be worth , extra sugar ,extra salt? That case of good scotch ,tobacco etc.etc.? And it of course extends quite far ,antibiotics and medical supplies , seeds and the tools to plant and care for them , hell that bucket of old fishing weights just became really valuable as casting lead.


So personally I'm not bothering with gold ,it makes too soft of cast bullets and I've got lead.

[Beelzy]

Guns are not investments, they are "working" savings plans.

They won't appreciate like Apple stock, but you won't have to worry about your gun
going bankrupt either.

[oneounceload]

Only investment-grade guns MAY outpace inflation or the stock market - that's NIB, one-of-kind type guns, VERY high-end shotguns and rifles (50,000 and up), otherwise, buy some stock in energy, healthcare and food industries

[Pweller]

One of the main mistakes a lot of people make is that they are too focused in the rear-view mirror. Gold looks good to a lot of people right now, only because gold has recently done very well. However, it is quite high right now, and may be at its peak. Same goes for a lot of guns. You need to look at things everyone else is ignoring to be a successful investor (buying gold 5 years ago when no one cared about gold, or even stocks less than a year ago when everyone thought they were dead.)

I think the likelihood of a drastic crash in the US economy is pretty low, I'm not saying it's impossible, just not probable. I think it is foolishly risky to bet on a complete crash of our economy, especially when you can simply buy international stocks. If you feel so certain that our economy is not going anywhere, then invest overseas. I think that is a far less risky investment than guns, gold, and cars, which can be pretty fickle (even trendy).