[USGuns]

Other than a 1908 Colt "Vest Pocket": http://www.a-human-right.com/vestpocket/vestpocket.html ;) ... are there any small mouse/pocket guns with a grip safety?
Thanks!

[10-Ring]

How big are your pockets? The compact XD comes to mind ;)

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-xdpstl-sub-compact.shtml

[USGuns]

Yeah, I thought about the XD but it's bigger than I was hoping to find...

[10-Ring]

In a semi auto pocket gun in 9mm, I'd go w/ a SIG 239, a good holster & good pockets.

[WonderNine]

A 239 is far from a pocket gun...

Sorry USGuns, I can't think of any others right now.

[Mike Irwin]

Remington Model 51.

[Matt G]

AMT "Backup" .380

FN model 1905 "Vest Pocket" .25 acp

Savage M1915 Hammerless .32 and .380 (wasn't that the assassin's gun in Road To Perdition?)

[Old Fuff]

These aren't automatic pistols, but Smith & Wesson's little top-break .32 Safety Hammerless 5-shot revolver had a grip safety combined with an enclosed hammer. They also made a .38 S&W version. First series model 40 and 42 snubby wheel-guns also had grip safeties.

S&W by the way, made a point of taking a dig at Colt by advertising that the .32 "Safety" was a better pocket gun then any .25 automatic.

[Tamara]

In a semi auto pocket gun in 9mm, I'd go w/ a SIG 239, a good holster & good pockets.

I was unaware that SIG had released a version with a grip safety...

[Double Naught Spy]

Colt also made the 1903 that was a .32 acp that had a grip safety, much like the Vest Pocket, but it has soa 4" barrel. The gun is a larger pocket gun but does come already melted and works nicely as a pocket gun. Similarly, they have the same size gun in .380 which is the model of 1908. Both guns are about the same size and weight, fully steel, and don't have bad recoil at all. They do tend to hang heavily in one's front pocket if the trousers are light weight. It is a shame they didn't make 2" barrel versions of these little guys. I have the 1903 and have shot the 1908. They are very nice shooting guns.

Along the lines of the Springfield XD, I carry a Kimber Ultra Elite as a pocket gun. The UE fits nicely in the cargo pocket and for my pants in question, the cargo pocket has an additional layer of pockets on top of the cargo pocket and so the UE does not print. The gun happens to match the pocket size and so it does not fall over in the pocket even though it is carried without a holster. The pocket confines the pistol to one position and acts as the holster. The gun's melted edges help keep the gun from tearing holes in the pocket via sharp edges.

[USGuns]

Why don't any modern designs use the grip safety? Seems like it would be an extra safety feature that wouldn't slow down the quick use of the gun and be especially useful for a gun that resides in ..... a pocket. Any thoughts?
Thanks!

[45auto]

Just some "devil's advocate" thoughts on grip safeties.

I view them, on a 1911 for example, as a needless safety feature. It is not uncommon for 1911 users to pin the safety because you may not always grip the gun perfectly, hand sizes vary, etc and gun may not fire when you want it to! That's not good and I don't believe any firearm should depend on how you grip it... to fire.

I would view any 'passive' safeties, i.e. grip safeties as almost useless. Since, when you grip the gun, they are deactivated. Where's the safety in that?

'Active' safeties like a trigger activated firing pin block perform all the functions of a 'passive' safety, i.e. ADs due to dropping, and possible parts malfunctioning ADs, like a hammer following the slide down and firing.
Active meaning you have to pull the trigger.

The exception now would be the Kimbers and S&W grip activated firing pin block. I'll pass on comments on those.


When Colt produced their 380 pocket guns they wisely left off the grip safety and used a trigger activated firing pin block. Simple and effective.

Can you tell I don't like grip safeties? ;)

[Double Naught Spy]

Sadly on the Colt .380 Gov't and the Mustang, they did leave off the grip safety. The trigger activated firing pin block doesn't prevent one of the very real potential discharge problems of the little gun. With a single thumb safety that can be swiped off while riding in a pocket, you are then left with a single action, short pull gun ready to fire. A bad grasp while pulling the gun from the pocket can result in discharge as can the stupid practice of carrying other items in the pocket. With no grip safety and the single action, discharge is quite easy to occur.

You don't read about too many unintended discharges in pockets by guns with safeties and fewer still of guns with grip safeties.

Some feel the grip safety is useless or redundant, but given the single action of the guns, carrying cocked and locked, when the lock is no longer engaged, you have a gun that will discharge easily, a feature that makes it well liked by shooters. There is no nasty long and heavy trigger pull to upset sight picture. If you are carrying in your pocket, do you really want to risk carrying a gun that will discharge easily if the single safety is off, either by accidental swiping or failure of the user to engage? A trigger activated firing pin block will not preclude the gun from firing if the trigger is depressed...a recurring flaw seen in recent years with Glocks.

[Old Fuff]

I think the real reason you don’t see more pocket automatics with grip safeties these days are because they’d add to the cost of the pistol and they’re apparently isn’t any consumer demand for them.

Except of course from the anti-gun crowd in California …..

However I would consider them to be advantageous on a single-action pistol that was striker fired or had an enclosed hammer, and might be carried cocked & locked.

But this is rapidly becoming moot as new designs are usually double-action and the hammer or striker is “at rest” while the piece is being carried. Perhaps this more then anything else has made grip safeties obsolete.

[USGuns]

Double Naught Spy summed up my thoughts better than I could have. I would love to have a small pocket pistol that I could throw into my pocket and not worry about an AD (within reason) while carrying it around. Both the trigger would have to be pulled AND the grip safety depressed - an unlikely occurance. The trigger could maybe accidentally get snagged on something but with the grip safety, the gun wouldn't fire. With todays DAO pocket pistols and no safeties, you still have that risk.

I 'd love to have a pocket pistol with the size/features of the 1908 Colt Vest Pocket but in 380 Auto and also with a firing pin block.

[kentucky bucky]

What Mat G said...............;)

[SirVette]

Why don't any modern designs use the grip safety? Seems like it would be an extra safety feature that wouldn't slow down the quick use of the gun and be especially useful for a gun that resides in ..... a pocket. Any thoughts?
Thanks!
USGuns


...But this is rapidly becoming moot as new designs are usually double-action and the hammer or striker is “at rest” while the piece is being carried. Perhaps this more then anything else has made grip safeties obsolete.
Old Fuff

The grip safety would work best in a holster pistol.

In 1929 Walther came out w/ a design that allowed fast into action & safe to carry chamber loaded, the PP. Followed by the cut down PPK in 1931. Many have copied the Walther safety design. Some of these designs have a heavy double action pull, while others have a good DA pull similiar to revolvers. Not difficult to master.

You don't want to go too light on the pull in a defense gun & have an AD.
Many police go their entire careers w/o firing their gun though many are taken into custody w/ it.

[flinch]

The FN model 1910 has a grip safety if I remember correctly. It comes in .380 and .32 and is a true pocket pistol. Mabey the best of pocket pistols.

[USGuns]

flinch,
I don't find any pics of the FN model 1910 - do you know if that is the model the Remington 51 was based on?

[Old Fuff]

Both the Browning 1910 and Remington model 51 were different designs. Neither was based on the other, other then they were both pocket automatics.

The following link will take you to a picture of the Remington 51.

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=13121826

A web search under "FN 1910" or "Browning 1910" should turn up some pictures of that pistol.

[Matthew_Q]

I've got a Llama Micromax I picked up... it's basically a mini 1911 chambered in .380. Has the firing pin safety like the Series 80 Colt, and the grip safety. Feels nice in the hand, trigger kinda sucks, but it is fairly accurate. Also kicks like a mule