I'm in the market for a pistol that in the furure I can add a suppresssor.
The HK is just too much $$. I was thinking if a fixed barrel model 92. The guys I know that run them tell me the fixed barrel is the way to go.
Any comments on the correct pistol?
Also need feedback in a effecent suppressor.
Don't beat me up and tell me HK is the only way to go as parts and mags just cost too much for me. It is going to cost enough just setting up the trust and the suppressor plus tax as it is.
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October 19, 2009, 03:16 PM
I've been thinking this over as well. Don't want to bugger up the barrel of my HK P9S but want an inexpensive 9mm to suppress. I considered the 92 and don't right off know why it wouldn't work, and well. I'm thinking of a used and inexpensive Glock 17 and possibly suppressing that for home defense. Fixed barrels do work better but you can suppress the non-fixed barrelled pistols too, such as the High Power and Glocks. Let us know how you progress.
October 19, 2009, 04:10 PM
One of the cheapest setups is a Walther P22. $30 for a threaded adapter, $300 for the gun, then your can/tax. Rimfire ammo is cheap compared to centerfire.
A 9mm will be next in line for cost and suppression capabilities. The less gas to contain the quieter it will be.
You can get a police trade-in Glock for cheap and a threaded barrel too.
October 19, 2009, 04:41 PM
I was thinking if a fixed barrel model 92. The guys I know that run them tell me the fixed barrel is the way to go.
It depends on what you mean by fixed barrel. Blow back operated pistols tend to let lots of noise out of the ejection port. The berretta 92 barrel is not fixed, but it does not tilt like the browning designs. This makes it more suitable for use with a silencer without adding a recoil booster. With the standard extended barrel, it is a good choice for suppression.
Everything I have heard about blow back pistols is that the excessive ejection port noise makes for poor suppression. The 22lr pistols are an exception.
The cheapest way to go is the P22, it is also the least accurate from what I have heard and based on my experience. A Buckmark or Ruger will be more expensive, but better. Any of the recoil operated 9mm pistols are good for suppressing, but the browning HP has a rather slim barrel that is not thick enough to machine a shoulder into.
Two other forums for opinions are http://www.subguns.com and http://www.silencertalk.com
October 19, 2009, 07:31 PM
An AAC Evolution 9 is great on tilt barrel guns, as it has a piston mounting unit that assists the cycling of the gun. I use on on a Walther P99, Browning HP, and 1911 custom in 9mm. The piston/adapter can be swapped out for differently threaded barrels.
October 19, 2009, 08:03 PM
The HK is the only way to go :neener:
Whether or not the barrel is fixed makes no difference. Go with whatever you want. As far as I know, any new suppressor for an autoloading pistol cartridge can be had with or without a booster. FWIW: I have the AAC Evo-9 mentioned in the previous post. It has a recoil booster. I also have a plug type thing for it if I want to use it without the booster.
October 20, 2009, 07:35 AM
I should have added I was thinking 9mm or .45 semiauto.
I will not use one I have not but this will be a long term thing as I will first buy the pistol then all the goodies, a project if you will.
All the ones I have now feed and function 100% and I don't want to mess with them. So I'm just going to do a ground up dedicated pistol.
I knew I would get some good feedback here :)
October 20, 2009, 08:14 AM
The Sig P220 Combat in 45 comes with a threaded barrel and is my choice. It has the raised sights for looking over the can.
October 20, 2009, 01:32 PM
The Sig P220 Combat in 45 comes with a threaded barrel and is my choice. It has the raised sights for looking over the can.
If the HK is too expensive for the OP, the SIG is out of his price range also.
My recommendation for a first suppressor is a 22LR. It is the most cost effective way to get started. And I say started, because once you buy a suppressor, you will get more.:D There are a few 22lr guns that come with the barrels already threaded.
Now for the OP you mentioned cost being an issue. One thing to look at. By the time you buy a centerfire gun and a threaded barrel or having your barrel threaded, you may be at the cost point of the HK.
As far as the suppressor itself, if you stay with any of the main builders the quality is all pretty close to each other. You will get the "this is the only can to have" from some people. Especially if you go to SilencerTalk.com.
October 20, 2009, 01:51 PM
Another important point was brought up and that is the sights. Most pistols will not have sights that you can see with the suppressor mounted. Some people say this isn't an issue. You just shoot with both eyes open and you create sort of an optical illusion that you are looking through the sights. I have tried this and it doesn't work for me. I want and need sights to shoot accurately. When I bought my 9mm suppressor, I bought threaded barrels for several of my 9mm guns: Glock 34, Glock 17, Glock 26, and Browning Hi-Powers. I also put larger sights on the Glock 34 that were sold for use on suppressed pistols. In the end, I NEVER use the suppressor on any gun other than the Glock 34 because it is the only gun that I can see the sights.
FWIW: I also have an HK Mk.23 with an SWR HEMS suppressor. I know you said that the HKs were out of your price range, but there are a couple things to consider: the HK came with a threaded barrel. So, you don't have the added expense of buying a threaded barrel or having a barrel threaded. Second, the HK came with sights that were designed to be used with a suppressor, so you don't have to buy new sights. Again, I know you said you didn't want to spend the money for HK. But when you are making your decision on a pistol: take into consideration what you might spend to turn it into a dedicated suppressor platform. If you need to thread a barrel (or buy another barrel that is already threaded) and you intend to add higher sights: factor this cost into the project and weigh the advantages/disadvantages of spending more initally to buy a pistol that already has this stuff.
9mm vs. 45 ACP :D
With suppressors, the 9mm will be quieter than the .45 ACP. As I understand it, the smaller the hole in the end of the can, the quieter it will be. I dont' have the latest thing out in a .45 ACP suppressor. Mine is a few years old. They have allegedly improved somewhat over the last few years so maybe mine isn't a good example. But, my 9mm can, shot dry, is about as loud as my .45 ACP can shot wet. Shot dry, the .45 ACP can is kind of a disappointment. It is suppressed, it isn't nearly as loud as a .45 without the suppressor, but it isn't all that impressive. When shot wet, it is pretty quiet. On the other hand, wetting the 9mm can makes it quieter than an air rifle by a wide margin.
If I could only own one centerfire pistol suppressor, it would be an 9mm without a doubt.
One more thing that you might want to consider: if you go with Glock, threaded drop-in barrels are readily available. And, they arn't expensive. YMMV with other guns. You don't have to send the barrel away to be threaded. You don't have to wait to get it back. You don't have to pay a lot. I have purchased a threaded barrel from Bar-Sto (as an example). The barrel was VERY expensive and took many months to get. I have also sent a lot of rifles away to have the barrels threaded be a gunsmith. The cost of shipping (not an issue for you since you aren't shipping a rifle but........) was amazing and again there was a several month wait to get it back. With Glock, I just bought a couple of my threaded barrels at a gun show and they drop right in (I had to fit the Bar-Sto barrel). Instant gratification.
October 20, 2009, 02:58 PM
Another thing in the .45 vs 9mm debate that occured to me after my previous post: and this may have already been addressed, I don't remember and I am too lazy to look:
In order to get the maximum performance out of a suppressor, the bullet needs to be subsonic. That is NOT to say that the suppressor does nothing or that a suppressor is useless if you are shooting supersonic ammunition: that is certainly NOT the case. But to bet MAXIMUM performance (the quietest possible report) the ammo needs to be subsonic because you are eliminating what is probably the loudest component of the report (the supersonic crack).
Ok, so moving on, the standard .45 ACP load is a 230 grain bullet. If you go to Walmart, buy GI surplus ammo or whatever, odds are you are going to get a 230 grain bullet. And this standard 45 load is subsonic.
The 9mm on the other hand is usually supersonic. If you go to Walmart or your local gun shop and ask for 9mm ammo, it is almost certainly going to be supersonic. That being said, 9mm cartridges loaded with 147 grain bullets are subsonic. This is a full power load, but when using the 147 grain bullet the muzzle velocity is below the speed of sound. You can buy commercial 147 grain loads, but they arn't common. You might have to order them or have your local gun shop order them for you. Of course if you are a handloader this is not an issue at all. You can churn out 147 grain cartridges buy the thousands. If you are not a handloader, this might be an issue.
Pretty much any .45 ACP ammo you buy over the counter is going to be subsonic. Pretty much any 9mm ammo you buy over the counter is going to be supersonic. And you will want to be shooting subsonic ammo for max. enjoyment of the suppressor experience.
October 21, 2009, 08:05 AM
I might go with a Sig. I'm not in a hurry so I'll try and get a deal on a used one. There are more used Sigs on the market than HKs. HK hates me anyway.
I do like the .45 but on the other hand 9mm does have more mag capacity and needs subsonics.
I'm leaning towards 9mm I think.
October 21, 2009, 08:37 AM
That HK Mk.23 I have is something I bought just because the price was right. I always thought it was a very cool pistol but never really thought about buying one until a guy from work wanted to sell his. I paid about 1/3 what they are going for at gunshows. Even then I initally turned it down. But, I went home and started reading about it and decided that for the price, I couldn't pass it up.
If you are patient, and keep your eyes and ears open, you can get some great buys. Getting in a hurry, gets you into trouble. People often comment to me about how I seem to always get guns at such low prices. The reality of it is that I am not actively trying to buy stuff. But every so often I hear about something for sale or see something at a store that is an incredible buy and I jump on it. I wasn't really all that interested in it to begin with, but when the opportunity presents itself, what the heck ?
That is the same story with a couple of those threaded barrels I have. I didn't really intend to buy all those barrels, but a couple of them are things I saw on the used gear sections of on-line gun forums where someone was selling a threaded barrel used and the price was very right, so I bought them.
October 21, 2009, 11:08 AM
ok i have several hk's and glocks and use the evo-9 and evo-45 suppressors on both. glocks are cheaper (lone wolf has cheap barrels and several people make sites to see over the can)
October 21, 2009, 11:52 AM
i wish i could own a supressor in michigan :mad:
October 21, 2009, 12:54 PM
Advanced armament makes models with a "recoil enhancer" or some such that allows browning type- tilting barrel guns to function. they also make the high rise sights though this one does not have them,
October 21, 2009, 04:03 PM
you can come to indiana and shoot mine...
October 21, 2009, 09:46 PM
If on a budget, a Walther p22 and an AAC pilot or similar can is a good option. .22 subsonic ammo is $5/100 at Academy. I initially wanted a 9mm can, but then I thought... oh wait, I can't really afford the entire set-up and to shoot it. A good .22 can will run you $250-300 at most. So figure $450-500 by the time you pay the tax. A basic Walther p22 will be between $250-350. Add $30 for the thread adapter.
So your total is between $730 and $880 tops- I mean absolute MAX. That's cheaper than most semi-auto rifles NEW.
October 22, 2009, 07:44 AM
I bought a GemTech Trinity for my Glock 17 and an extra multi mount so I can stick it on my 9 MM AR and my S&W 422, yea 422, it works great on a .22! I can attest that the Az Jacks don't get any peace.:neener: I had to put a J-Point sight on the Glock 17 to get around the point of impact shift with the can stuck on the end of it. No lining up the front and rear sights, just put the RED Dot on your target and squeeze the trigger. You dont have that problem with the 422. It seems as if they had that in mind when they designed it! Best toy I ever bought!:what: Stuff this much fun should be illegal!